1. Gino Guillermo's Avatar
    Hi there. I'm a Mac user and i'm trying to see if now is a good time to make that switch to Windows 10. Six months ago i had a Lenovo Yoga Windows 8.0 computer. I want to share my experience with you and ask you guys some questions.
    1. Setting Up & Bootup
    Twice i set-up, download & install updates to 8.1. And it took me more than 3 hours. With my Macbook Air it took me less than an hour max. QUESTION: Will it take me the same 3-hour long process to update/download/install updates to Win10 or not? And will there be auto updates?
    2. Battery Life
    Very subjective issue as this depends on what you are using the PC for. Because of the simplicity and how things are managed within the OS the battery life of a Mac is solid and is "as advertised" so was quite pleased. QUESTION: Will Windows 10 promise a very good/better than normal battery life with all the processes going on in the background?
    3. Printing
    With my Win8.1 laptop i had to set-up & connect my wireless printer a lot longer than my Mac. With my MBA it was almost zero effort. A simple app download also allowed me to scan my documents very efficiently & smoothly. QUESTION: Will it be the same procedure in setting up a wireless printer or does Win10 have a shorter/faster way in doing it? (as i imagine some printing apps will still need updating to the new OS)
    4. Background Tasks
    I had to go to the Settings and My Computer on Win8.1 to look for all tasks, apps or software that i think may be running in the background and it was a very long process. Some i don't even know as i think it was made by a scientist. With Mac all you have to do is go to the app or task (either on the Dock or My Favourites) and click Quit and you're done. QUESTION: How easy and simple is it to find apps that may be running in the background and to stop it?
    5. Keyboard
    I just love my Macbook Air as it has backlit keyboard which helps me work at night. A Windows 8.1 PC with a backlit keyboard seem rare unless you go up in price and screen size which isn't an option for me vs my MBA. QUESTION: Is there any 11'-13' Win10 laptop that has backlit keyboard right now?
    6. Transferring files
    Does Windows 10 allow you to wirelessly transfer files (such as .jpg or .pdf) from an Android phone direct to the PC via bluetooth?

    Generally i found apps load faster on a Mac. Must be each app have been optimised very well. No waiting for a few more seconds compared to a Windows PC.

    All other issues such as multitasking, app store, games, who has the fastest browser i am not too bothered. These are the top things that worries me with a Windows 10 computer and i would appreciate some insight please.

    Many thanks.
    Larry Amato likes this.
    08-26-2015 03:53 PM
  2. jsooney's Avatar
    Is this a serious post or are you just trolling?
    milkyway likes this.
    08-26-2015 04:08 PM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    I have Windows 10 "bootcamped" on my Macbook Pro. I would recommend that, at least long enough to answer your questions about Windows.

    Apple has very good hardware, and Bootcamp works very well. Some say that the ultimate experience is Windows on a Macbook. If your Macbook is new enough, Bootcamp officially supports Windows 10.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-26-2015 04:28 PM
  4. kriz225's Avatar
    Some say that the ultimate experience is Windows on a Macbook.
    Based on what I've read (I have used, but never owned an Apple machine) this is absolutely not the case at all. Virtualization of Windows on a Mac isn't too bad, but the Windows drivers that Apple provides make running Windows on an Apple device a very subpar experience as far as battery life, performance and even simple things like the trackpad are concerned.

    To the OP, no one can really tell you what OS is best because it's ultimately a matter of preference. It seems pretty clear from your post that your experiences have been better with OS X. So much so I kinda have to ask why you're even looking to use Windows but... So as not to answer your questions with a question :)

    1. This will be dependent on many things. Generally speaking, the process will be faster with W10 than W8 simply because you'll have less updates to run. Factors like whether you have an SSD or not play a huge role here.

    2. PC vendors tend to be less... Accurate when it comes to battery life. There are PCs out there with great battery life, but this is an area where Apple tends to win most of the time. You have to remember that Apple controls the hardware and software and thus have a lot more opportunity for optimization.

    3. This depends entirely on the drivers/applications provided by your printer vendor. Windows makes it very easy to add typical devices like printers if you have some clue as to what you're doing. If not, most modern printers come with software that guides you step-by-step from finding the printer on your network to printing your first page.

    4. Not sure why you're even concerned about this. Unless you have malware or viruses, nothing is really going to run in the background of a PC that will cause you problems. If you insist, task manager displays applications that are running, as well as processes and services... If you don't know what they are, you probably shouldn't touch them. My guess is OS X has the same things going on but simply doesn't show them... Because that'd be too confusing.

    5. Backlit keyboards are pretty common on Windows laptops now. Not really sure why you seem to have an apprehension on price point seeing as Macs are easily more expensive than comparable counterparts at pretty much every step. I don't keep up with the hundreds of retail options so I can't say off hand, but I'm sure there's an option to fit your needs. The type keyboard on a Surface 3 is backlit, for example.

    6. Yes. Just make sure the machine has Bluetooth if this is important to you.

    The speed thing is very subjective. As someone who's worked quite extensively with PCs and somewhat with Macs my take on it is this:

    Mace are a premium product. The PCs that most people buy aren't. So saying a Mac is faster is a bit like saying a Ferrari is faster than a Ford Focus. Well... Yeah. It's also not even on the same class.

    Now if you go out of your way to compare apples to apples (no pun intended) then I'm sure you'd find performance is quite comparable. At least until the PC gets filled with crud. Which they are more susceptible to.
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-26-2015 09:34 PM
  5. Gino Guillermo's Avatar
    I'm definitely NOT a troll. I do not understand why people "judge" you for being a troll just by starting a thread like mine.

    I am merely asking/studying the possibility if a PC "equal" to my 2014 11-inch Macbook Air in terms of specs and "affordability". I bought my MBA for just over GBP600 brand-new and i loved it ever since. I can do the stuff i want to do with ease and user-friendliness. The things i mentioned are the basic and most common things i do with a computer plus the usual web browsing and transferring my mp3 files to my Android phone. If i can get that same experience with a Windows 10 PC but cheaper then why not. But if you said that having Bootcamp and dual-boot Windows & Mac OS X and the former being not too optimised or performance/compatibilities will be an issue then maybe i'll just stick to my Mac.

    Someone might say the best way to experience Windows 10 is to go to a store. Very true. I agree. But the shops sell limited stocks, not the one i want (the one with backlit keyboard), the PC is on Demo mode or the OS is not up to date. Similar case with phones or tablets. So, that leaves me with here asking for insights and advice on a Windows 10 computer.
    08-27-2015 04:34 AM
  6. tgp's Avatar
    But if you said that having Bootcamp and dual-boot Windows & Mac OS X and the former being not too optimised or performance/compatibilities will be an issue then maybe i'll just stick to my Mac.
    I'm not sure what kriz225 was reading but I've not read that, nor have I experienced it. In fact, based on my experience and what I've read, Windows on an Apple computer is one of the best experiences you can get. Apple's hardware is premium. Yes, you can get equally good hardware in a PC, but it will cost as much or more. Bootcamp takes care of drivers and compatibility, and again I've not experienced any problems with that, nor have I read about it.

    I have an older Macbook Pro, but it has an i7. I upgraded it to a 512GB SSD and 16GB of RAM. That thing flies! I installed Windows 7 on it (I had a copy), and then upgraded it to Windows 10. It works a lot better than a PC or two I've upgraded, I can assure you of that!

    There's no danger to trying Windows on your Macbook with Bootcamp. If it doesn't work, remove it. It really is that simple.
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-27-2015 07:02 AM
  7. kriz225's Avatar
    Here's something from Paul Thurrott, who tests this kind of stuff quite frequently:

    "...if you use Boot Camp, Apple ensures that Windows runs less efficiently than does OS X, and it does not provide optimized drivers for hardware..."

    Full article: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/win...c-introduction

    I've read similar reports from other people and publications but don't recall specifics well enough to look them up. Apple isn't very incentivized to provide a premium experience with Windows, though, so it kinda makes sense.

    That said, boot camp is definitely easy to set up and use so if you've got some way to get Windows for free (otherwise you'd have to buy it, and it isn't exactly cheap) then trying boot camp won't hurt anything.

    From a hardware stand point you'd be a bit hard pressed to find something matching the quality of a Macbook Air on the Windows side. Closest competitors would probably be the Surface 3 and Surface Pro 3, but those may not be contenders depending on how you feel about detachable keyboards.
    tgp and Gino Guillermo like this.
    08-27-2015 07:59 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    Here's something from Paul Thurrott, who tests this kind of stuff quite frequently:

    "...if you use Boot Camp, Apple ensures that Windows runs less efficiently than does OS X, and it does not provide optimized drivers for hardware..."
    Interesting! But I trust Paul Thurrott about as far as I can throw a cheesecake underwater when it comes to Apple. You know how we talk about iVerge here? It's the same way with Thurrott/Apple.

    If Apple ensures that Windows runs less efficiently than does OS X, they failed miserably. It is indeed a premium experience. And, it is possible to dual boot Windows on a Mac without using Bootcamp.
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-27-2015 08:42 AM
  9. Gino Guillermo's Avatar
    TGP,

    I'm interested as to how you come up with a way to dual-boot Windows with Mac OS X.

    And i'm also interested on how can i get a hold of Windows 10 as my MBA has no disc on them. Download? But again the question is...is it expensive or not?
    08-29-2015 03:45 AM
  10. colinkiama's Avatar
    TGP,

    I'm interested as to how you come up with a way to dual-boot Windows with Mac OS X.

    And i'm also interested on how can i get a hold of Windows 10 as my MBA has no disc on them. Download? But again the question is...is it expensive or not?
    Buy a download from the Microsoft store: http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=usS4Wu3D
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-29-2015 03:57 AM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    TGP,

    I'm interested as to how you come up with a way to dual-boot Windows with Mac OS X.

    And i'm also interested on how can i get a hold of Windows 10 as my MBA has no disc on them. Download? But again the question is...is it expensive or not?
    Go to Utilities and open Boot Camp Assistant. Bootcamp will give you the option to have it download Windows for you. However, it will not be activated. You must have a valid product key. It will also partition your hard drive for you.

    Bootcamp was recently updated to support Windows 10, but your Macbook must not be too old. Once you boot into Windows, you should see a tool to install drivers.

    I wanted Windows 10 on my Macbook. I had valid product key for Windows 7 Professional, so I installed that, activated it, and then upgraded to Windows 10.

    Once Window is installed, holding the Option key while booting while take you to the bootloader menu to choose which OS to boot into. If you do nothing at bootup, it will just boot into whichever OS you choose as default.

    Installing the 2nd OS on a Mac is actually much simpler than doing the same on a PC, thanks to Bootcamp. It does the work for you, and you basically only click your way through its very simple GUI (typical Apple; very simple and user friendly without a ton of options, but very effective at getting the job done ).
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-29-2015 07:07 AM
  12. kriz225's Avatar
    Interesting! But I trust Paul Thurrott about as far as I can throw a cheesecake underwater when it comes to Apple. You know how we talk about iVerge here? It's the same way with Thurrott/Apple.

    If Apple ensures that Windows runs less efficiently than does OS X, they failed miserably. It is indeed a premium experience. And, it is possible to dual boot Windows on a Mac without using Bootcamp.
    Opinions of the source aside, I don't see how a Macbook Pro with an i7, 16GB of RAM and an SSD could run Windows poorly. My point was that many sources I've seen state that drivers are not quite as optimized for Windows as they are for Mac OS. As a result, battery life is less on Windows than on OS X. The trackpad doesn't work as responsively. Etc.

    So it isn't so much that the Apple hardware can't run Windows, or that it can't run it well, but that it doesn't run it as well as it does OS X and - as a result - hardware that is natively built and optimized for Windows is often a better choice.

    Not trying to argue with you, if that hasn't been your experience. Just clarifying what I meant.

    BTW Paul is very harsh on Apple and Google, but he was testing Windows on Mac hardware (both things he is very familiar with). Given how many devices he works with, I'd be a little more inclined to believe his experience than some random blogger from X or Y site, personally.
    tgp and Gino Guillermo like this.
    08-29-2015 11:40 AM
  13. tgp's Avatar
    Opinions of the source aside, I don't see how a Macbook Pro with an i7, 16GB of RAM and an SSD could run Windows poorly. My point was that many sources I've seen state that drivers are not quite as optimized for Windows as they are for Mac OS. As a result, battery life is less on Windows than on OS X. The trackpad doesn't work as responsively. Etc.

    So it isn't so much that the Apple hardware can't run Windows, or that it can't run it well, but that it doesn't run it as well as it does OS X and - as a result - hardware that is natively built and optimized for Windows is often a better choice.

    Not trying to argue with you, if that hasn't been your experience. Just clarifying what I meant.

    BTW Paul is very harsh on Apple and Google, but he was testing Windows on Mac hardware (both things he is very familiar with). Given how many devices he works with, I'd be a little more inclined to believe his experience than some random blogger from X or Y site, personally.
    OK I understand now where you're coming from. But I've never heard any negatives of running Windows on a Mac, not until you mentioned it in this thread. All I've ever heard was positive, that it is the ultimate experience. Top notch hardware running a popular OS with any software available. And yes, you're absolutely correct that any machine with the specs of my Macbook would run anything well, even if it is not optimized. But again, I have not heard any negatives until this.

    I guess I'd like to see something from someone other than a Microsoft fan. In this forum any journalist who says anything negative about anything related to Microsoft is considered biased and anti-Microsoft. Well, how is Paul Thurrott any different here? The view is flipped 180, but the concept is the same. We like it because his view matches our agenda, but is it objective?
    kriz225 and Gino Guillermo like this.
    08-29-2015 01:07 PM
  14. kriz225's Avatar
    You're definitely not wrong about Paul!

    I know I heard this from other sources in the past... Just can't recall as it wasn't all that recent. I want to say the guys that used to do the Lifehacker podcast said something to that effect as well. I know I got steered off the idea of buying a 13" Macbook Pro because I'd have to put Windows on it and heard it wouldn't be great.

    At any rate, that was some time ago. Hopefully even those issues have been ironed out. Especially since W10 actually has good trackpad gesture support built in (finally!!!).

    But the ultimate experience... That's a Surface :P
    tgp and Gino Guillermo like this.
    08-29-2015 11:28 PM
  15. Gino Guillermo's Avatar
    I can see Windows 10 on the Microsoft website is 99.99. That's quite steep for an OS. Whilst Mac OS X upgrades are free.
    08-30-2015 04:16 AM
  16. Panathas's Avatar
    Win10 upgrades are free as well.
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-30-2015 04:56 AM
  17. anon(9308532)'s Avatar
    I can see Windows 10 on the Microsoft website is 99.99. That's quite steep for an OS. Whilst Mac OS X upgrades are free.
    I remember seeing Windows 8 costing more than that. But OS X is only a free upgrade. Can you install it on a standalone PC?
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-30-2015 05:49 AM
  18. michail71's Avatar
    1. Setting Up & Bootup
    2. Battery Life
    3. Printing
    4. Background Tasks
    5. Keyboard
    6. Transferring files
    1) It really depends on the hardware but Windows 10 if installed from online (even ISO builder) will give you everything all updated. My PC can do it well under an hour but my Surface 3 takes a while. I'd guess 3 hours but then it's all up to date anyway when done.

    2) On my Surface 3 the battery life has gone down considerably. But it appears to be from various driver bugs. So I hope they will get fixed some day. The forums are full of people with battery issues now under Windows 10. You'd think MS wouldn't have such bad driver issues on their own hardware product.

    3) Apple really does a beautiful job with printing. I have a WiFi printer at home and Windows 10 seems to support it out the box without me having to do anything. However, I had a roommate with a Mackbook air and she would occasionally have a hard time getting printing to work and I'd have to do it for her from my Win 10 beta machine.

    Even Windows 10 for Phone appears to see the printer from some applications but nothing like an iPhone experience when it comes to printing.

    4) Just may be familiarity with things. But the task manager in 8.1 and 10 are very similar and takes 2 clicks to get. You could even pin it for one click access. But I've never seen anyone pin the task manager. Even developers doing system work don't usually pin it. I often used it when I need find a PID to attach a debugger and I've never pinned it :).

    I don't think it's any harder. But under normal circumstances I don't think it should be something done on a regular basis. Apple may hide some of the stuff that MS shows.

    There is also the Task View in Windows 10. From there everything with a UI can be observed and directly closed. It's just one click or swipe.

    5) Surface Pro 3 is a good direct comparison to a Mackbook Air.

    6) Microsoft always has sucked when it comes to Bluetooth. I recall trying to do it once but nothing seemed to work. It may have been my phone. But there is a better option -- OneDrive :).

    As far as your final point about apps loading faster, that's all on the quality of the hardware. If you price a Windows system that is 75% (just pulled that from thin air to make a point) or more the cost of a similar apple system you should see the same performance. Don't judge on a $200 laptop or a 5 year old system with a slow mechanical drive.
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-30-2015 08:56 AM
  19. Gino Guillermo's Avatar
    I made some price research on the Surface 3 which is 499 and the Type Cover backlit keyboard will set me back "at least" 130. Add those two and that's MBA territory ( at least the cheapest one). And my aim is a Windows 10 computer under 600.

    I kinda liked the advantage of having touch screen as it just slightly makes life easier instead of using the touchpad; I have no Apple mouse and i depend highly on the trackpad.

    But if overall downloading & installation to Windows 10 would still take "up to" 3 hours and battery life seems still an issue (with the dreaded background tasks i mentioned before) then these are massive turn-offs for me.
    08-31-2015 02:41 PM
  20. michail71's Avatar
    That lengthy upgrade time I mentioned was for a Surface 3. A Surface Pro 3 has a much faster processor and SSD.

    I'm not sure how the Pro is doing with Windows 10 but my take on the Surface 3 problems are that it's driver related and not the OS. But for the life of me I can't figure out why they are dropping the ball on the drivers. Could be Intel's fault.
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    08-31-2015 03:15 PM
  21. Gino Guillermo's Avatar
    A Surface Pro 3 is not on my list of Windows 10 computers as i simply cannot afford it. And seemingly putting the blame on drivers may means that the said drivers are not made fully optimised & compatible with Windows 10 unlike Mac OS X. That sounds very troubling to me.
    09-01-2015 08:16 AM
  22. michail71's Avatar
    It is troubling to me as well. This late after Windows 10 release it shouldn't be a problem on their own hardware. I'd guess Intel and MS are probably focused on the upcoming products such as Surface Pro 4.

    I'm going to see if getting a clean install of the factory image will help with my issues.
    Gino Guillermo likes this.
    09-02-2015 08:54 AM

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