11-02-2015 07:35 AM
76 1234
tools
  1. illidanx's Avatar
    I think two things:

    1. They might just wait on those compilers for Android and iOS, that's less work on their end.
    2. Microsoft seemed to expect devs to be stupid or something. That 110+ million is almost all on PC. The apps are still treated as second-class pieces of software on PC-based Windows 10, in a way. I've only every fired up, like, 3 (Weather, MLB At-Bat, and Xbox). Developers almost certainly realize that a lot of those numbers are padded by groups who aren't using the apps on W10 PCs, they're just tacked on to the experience.
    I particularly like your 2nd point. It's very true. Developers don't jump to make apps for Windows when 110+ millions are mostly PC. Readers on WC use more apps than regular users but all the people I know never use a single app on their Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 PC.
    10-26-2015 10:10 AM
  2. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I particularly like your 2nd point. It's very true. Developers don't jump to make apps for Windows when 110+ millions are mostly PC. Readers on WC use more apps than regular users but all the people I know never use a single app on their Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 PC.
    I think it's a matter of education. I had a friend who didn't use it or anything. I showed her all about the start menu and the apps in the store and how she can install and pin them and she loves it. Most people install it and expect it to be like Windows 7. When they think of "Store" they don't think of apps nor free apps. They think it's to buy MS stuff. I think it's the people who purchase new computers that will be more likely to use them not the users who have always been downloading apps on the web. Though w32 apps will shrink over time as is MS's goal and will end up in app store.

    But really the part is on them to educate. First boot should show tutorials of using the start menu, browsing app store, installing apps. It's really odd that a new operating system wouldn't do this. Just install and use it. And it can work just like Windows 7 so yah people will continue using it the same way.
    jakreid likes this.
    10-26-2015 10:36 AM
  3. xkinn's Avatar
    "why would they, people don't use apps on PC - they have a browser" IS sadly not my problem here.
    I'm trying to learn develop Universal Windows Apps with C# and XAML as a base, and sadly there's no full documentation ( e-book, etc. ) on both language that got updated. Even more, I can't even find one worthy book about developing metro apps in WIndows 8.1 ( heck, even 8 ) in my city.

    It's kind of sucks that all books nowadays are just following the current trend, not preparing for the future possible trends.
    Yes, there's a video guide in Channel9 that guides you to make an app, but sadly it doesn't statisfy me since they don't deep enough ( even on the Expert level ).
    10-26-2015 10:36 AM
  4. elindalyne's Avatar
    Maybe they'll announce better ad mediation at Ignite in about a month? I hadn't realized the list of networks was so bare until your post Illidan :/

    I'd hope that all the providers usable by the Silverlight WP 8 apps would eventually come over to Windows 10 Mobile
    10-26-2015 10:58 AM
  5. Badger Metalous's Avatar
    For me, some of my apps are designed to go into area's where connection is NOT guaranteed, store and forward the name of the game.
    10-26-2015 11:51 AM
  6. Allan Breum's Avatar
    Genisys. (from the new Terminator movie)
    You'd need an app on that scale to really make people see the potential of universal apps.

    Preferably without the genocidal AI.
    10-26-2015 02:10 PM
  7. Citizen X's Avatar
    I can't think of any "apps" I use on my PC. I just use full blown programs. If I need anything else I go to a company's website. Maybe there are cool PC apps out there that are better than their websites. I just haven't bothered to look. Xbox is interesting. Xbox install base could definitely help with certain apps. But again I don't see people using their TV for social media. No teenager is going to sit in the family living room and use an Xbox controller to text their girlfriend while the whole family wanders in and out of the room. Likewise you aren't going to do banking or use epocrates on your Xbox.
    10-26-2015 02:21 PM
  8. Arunabha Goswami's Avatar
    Maybe there are cool PC apps out there that are better than their websites. I just haven't bothered to look.
    That's the thing - people don't miss what they haven't experienced. Maybe the situation will change, but it'll take time.
    10-26-2015 02:49 PM
  9. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I can't think of any "apps" I use on my PC. I just use full blown programs. If I need anything else I go to a company's website. Maybe there are cool PC apps out there that are better than their websites. I just haven't bothered to look. Xbox is interesting. Xbox install base could definitely help with certain apps. But again I don't see people using their TV for social media. No teenager is going to sit in the family living room and use an Xbox controller to text their girlfriend while the whole family wanders in and out of the room. Likewise you aren't going to do banking or use epocrates on your Xbox.
    But wouldn't someone who wants windows to succeed at least make the effort? If people who want mobile to succeed are not using the desktop app store then yeah mobile will likely go nowhere. Developers will not see the traffic or downloads and abandon the whole universal app model.
    wpn00b likes this.
    10-26-2015 03:59 PM
  10. midnightfrolic's Avatar
    Possible the developers are testing the waters a bit and polishing their apps (hopefully).

    There's Universal Windows Platform (UWP). There are so many more and different Windows devices (not just Windows Mobile) than there are IOS/Android devices. One mess up and it could cause a huge ruckus. Chipset incompatibilities can cause all kinds of mayhem. Then there's HW/SW optimization. Etc. List goes one. My hope is that they're just polishing their apps.

    And M$ needs to add more free permanent OneDrive storage.

    EDIT: Those 4K vids and HD selfies are gonna eat up all that storage.
    10-26-2015 07:11 PM
  11. dlxMachine's Avatar
    "why would they, people don't use apps on PC - they have a browser" IS sadly not my problem here.
    I'm trying to learn develop Universal Windows Apps with C# and XAML as a base, and sadly there's no full documentation ( e-book, etc. ) on both language that got updated. Even more, I can't even find one worthy book about developing metro apps in WIndows 8.1 ( heck, even 8 ) in my city.

    It's kind of sucks that all books nowadays are just following the current trend, not preparing for the future possible trends.
    Yes, there's a video guide in Channel9 that guides you to make an app, but sadly it doesn't statisfy me since they don't deep enough ( even on the Expert level ).
    dev.windows.com/en-us and msdn.microsoft.com/en-us should have up-to-date tutorials+api reference. Since windows is still in development, library may get constantly updated with each new SDK for like threshold , redstone version etc. so, books may not be useful or uptodate.
    10-26-2015 08:46 PM
  12. afripino's Avatar
    "why would they, people don't use apps on PC - they have a browser"
    from a mobile device standpoint, you have more hardware access which yields more capability. browsers can't utilize accelerometers, gyros, gps, touch, cameras, and other sensors as well as native apps. browsers just aren't there yet. also, notifications (real-time or action driven) aren't very capable on browsers either. you also can't utilize Cortana functionality into a browser ("eBay.com...bid $25 on a Lumia 950XL")...it just doesn't work like that. But, you can say "Spotify, play _____". no matter how you slice it...apps > browsers. it's science.
    wpn00b and 920Walker like this.
    10-26-2015 09:33 PM
  13. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    As much as you complain about the apps here, on the Apple side the Mac OSX store doe not have many apps in it. Most apps for the OSX are stand alone as on windows and not in the store. Yes there are still much more apps in the osx appstore than in the windows store :) but devs concentrate on IOS and not the OSX store. Having all xbox,phone and desktop released won't magically bring devs to create apps you miss. If a dev is really interested in windows phone, it would have already created apps while still in beta. LOL Apple watch was not even launched and there were already many apps for it because there was dev interest.
    10-27-2015 02:52 AM
  14. adamyos's Avatar
    Mail downright sucks (no select all! no selection of items in the list using Shift!),...
    Hey! I know this is kinda off-topic, but I just checked selecting multiple mails using the Ctrl key. It works perfectly! I know it's not the same is using Shift+Arrow Up or Down. But, you can press Ctrl and click on the required mails one by one.
    Also, if possible, could you please give Microsoft feedback about this issue by upvoting it on their Feedback app? (if you haven't already)
    10-27-2015 03:42 AM
  15. Wietse-0803's Avatar
    Building a Windows Universal app is useless at the moment. There are no possibilites to obtain huge revenue. It only takes money for the developer or company.
    Google Admob is not coming to W10, it also lacks support on Windows Phone 8.1 runtime, so it's over. I asked Google Admob around one year ago, and they haven't planned anything...
    That's a substantial reason for me and many other developers to disregard Windows Phone, sad but true. The Microsoft ad mediator is laughable by the way, if you see the advertisers , it sucks definitely.
    mariusmuntean and illidanx like this.
    10-27-2015 04:55 AM
  16. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    Building a Windows Universal app is useless at the moment. There are no possibilites to obtain huge revenue. It only takes money for the developer or company.
    Google Admob is not coming to W10, it also lacks support on Windows Phone 8.1 runtime, so it's over. I asked Google Admob around one year ago, and they haven't planned anything...
    That's a substantial reason for me and many other developers to disregard Windows Phone, sad but true. The Microsoft ad mediator is laughable by the way, if you see the advertisers , it sucks definitely.
    I wonder how much time it will take for the fanboys here to start commenting that you are evil :)) and not like them, praising a company that does not care for it's own platform and users.
    10-27-2015 06:59 AM
  17. BrandonLiveuh's Avatar
    Myself being a more mature Windows Mobile user, I find that the platform already has what I'm looking for in the first place.
    - Web browser
    - Email, calendar, contacts
    - Music/video player
    - Photo viewer
    - Full fidelity MS Office document create/editing
    - Remote access software in Remote desktop and Citrix Receiver
    - Glance-able information on the home screen
    Personally I see most mobile users as newbies still trying to figure out where mobile devices fit in their day to day lives. I've been using Windows Mobile since it was called Pocket PC. I've seem almost all my needs eventually meet in todays mobile offerings. Android is there, IOS is there and Windows Mobile is there. Now app developers just need to refine things, make them simpler, integrate into the cloud better and start making desktop style content creation apps. As far as I see it, there's not much that is left to do besides making that mobile device in your pocket the one device you use for everything. That's where I see Continuum being a huge leap into the future if it's ever widely adopted. Content creation is the next big hurdle to overcome with mobile. Continuum will help greatly in giving the user a work space with enough room to manipulate their content. Hopefully the processing power is there. Who knows maybe we'll find that more complex and processor intensive tasks like video editing, music and podcast creation/editing, layered image creation (like Photoshop) is good enough on Window Mobile with Continuum. But if the processing power isn't there, then app developers aren't going to bother. If Windows Mobile developers don't make the content creation apps then Windows Mobile will be just like every other mobile platform and will probably stay number 3 or just kind of disappear.
    Windows Mobile still does have a chance to become the Mobile OS of choice for the business though, so that's always a possibility. Maybe that's where it will grow and gain some following.
    10-27-2015 07:12 AM
  18. Daniel Stevenson Sutton's Avatar
    I know what you are saying, I work in Access, SQL Server and Excel but then the PowerBI app is great for checking data, the MSN Money apps is a good tool for some light research, the Universal Lync and email client are nice for quick communication...

    Basically I would say the mobile nature of an app makes them perfect for quick reference tools, which there are tasks that fits. Build data in x64 read it in an app.

    Well it's how I tend to work at least.
    10-27-2015 09:40 AM
  19. msanda's Avatar
    Microsoft biggest problem for windows 10 and apps is the lack of .net developers in the start-up world. face it. 90% of all modern apps that people talk about or use, are made in other languages. Start-ups are looking for people that code in the Objective-c, Java ( Android-ish) and web platforms ( html5, nodejs etc). non of these are native to windows in any fashion. Microsoft solution with "bridge" is still under development. until the other languages are made to run comparable to native .net application startups will not invest in time and resources to create windows apps.

    The other main problem msft has, is the straight up disgust most startups have about Microsoft. most of these employees did not even get affected but Microsoft in the early 90's but have a resounding hate for anything Microsoft. This is a huge problem and one that takes years of trust building for people to get over.. Microsoft is on the right step for now but will need to do more and more everyday to win trust back. until these 2 things are fixed there is nothing Microsoft can do but play the waiting game, or just partner with app developers and offer their resources to handle the porting of apps.. the problem here is that mobile is continuously evolving and no one in the start-up fields are remotely waiting for Microsoft. if Microsoft was to disappear today none of them will notice it.
    10-27-2015 10:51 AM
  20. Petru Moldovan's Avatar
    Microsoft biggest problem for windows 10 and apps is the lack of .net developers in the start-up world. face it. 90% of all modern apps that people talk about or use, are made in other languages. Start-ups are looking for people that code in the Objective-c, Java ( Android-ish) and web platforms ( html5, nodejs etc). non of these are native to windows in any fashion. Microsoft solution with "bridge" is still under development. until the other languages are made to run comparable to native .net application startups will not invest in time and resources to create windows apps.

    The other main problem msft has, is the straight up disgust most startups have about Microsoft. most of these employees did not even get affected but Microsoft in the early 90's but have a resounding hate for anything Microsoft. This is a huge problem and one that takes years of trust building for people to get over.. Microsoft is on the right step for now but will need to do more and more everyday to win trust back. until these 2 things are fixed there is nothing Microsoft can do but play the waiting game, or just partner with app developers and offer their resources to handle the porting of apps.. the problem here is that mobile is continuously evolving and no one in the start-up fields are remotely waiting for Microsoft. if Microsoft was to disappear today none of them will notice it.
    html5, nodejs etc is one of the main ways to do apps since WP8 (the others are C++ - mainly for DirectX-based games - and .NET). There is also there a wizard which can convert a site based on HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript to an application with no programming involved there. The problem is that people don't care about these because there is not enough money in this business yet.
    10-27-2015 01:35 PM
  21. msanda's Avatar
    html5, nodejs etc is one of the main ways to do apps since WP8 (the others are C++ - mainly for DirectX-based games - and .NET). There is also there a wizard which can convert a site based on HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript to an application with no programming involved there. The problem is that people don't care about these because there is not enough money in this business yet.
    Point taken. but I believe you missed the keyword I stated above and that is native. html5, js, obecjtive c, java are not native to the windows platform. none of these are compiled down to run on windows. they are run on top of emulators and some runtime environments. The point being a html5 js application on android will run better than on windows phone on identical hardware. and the cost for developers to improve on performance just because of "windows" is not an incentive. Msft has to make these first party applications. and hence the 'bridge'; until this is out developers will just wait and see and even with bridge, unless performance is equal or better than their counterparts developers will always say "well performance was not good, so we decided to stop production on it".

    msft has to show why their platform is better and not play catchup. they must incentivizes developers to trust them and offer better than the competition revenue ( this does not necessarily only mean sales but also advertisements such as spotlights on behalf of the companies)
    10-27-2015 02:49 PM
  22. elindalyne's Avatar
    What are you talking about? HTML5/JS applications don't run on top of emulators in the WP environment...
    10-27-2015 02:57 PM
  23. UnnDunn's Avatar
    The biggest problem I feel is that the entire culture of "mobile" app development revolves around making clients for web-based online services. There is very little focus on creating purely offline or offline-centric apps. The big opportunity for Windows app developers will be to create offline-centric apps that roam from desktop to phone and back again.
    10-27-2015 04:17 PM
  24. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Point taken. but I believe you missed the keyword I stated above and that is native. html5, js, obecjtive c, java are not native to the windows platform. none of these are compiled down to run on windows. they are run on top of emulators and some runtime environments. The point being a html5 js application on android will run better than on windows phone on identical hardware. and the cost for developers to improve on performance just because of "windows" is not an incentive. Msft has to make these first party applications. and hence the 'bridge'; until this is out developers will just wait and see and even with bridge, unless performance is equal or better than their counterparts developers will always say "well performance was not good, so we decided to stop production on it".

    msft has to show why their platform is better and not play catchup. they must incentivizes developers to trust them and offer better than the competition revenue ( this does not necessarily only mean sales but also advertisements such as spotlights on behalf of the companies)
    "Native" is such a funny word. You can code in any language in Visual studio at this point and make it native. See, it's the compiler that makes it native code. It doesn't matter what language you use to write it. And what visual studio allows is for the compiler to compile natively for all platforms. Java for example will be converted to java byte code in which case the java runtime will use to create native code on the fly. It's part of why android has always been so slow. Though they have really changed things around and improved their just in time compilers. Objective-C once again all it does is converts it to what the machine will understand and that's basically the target that is selected. Things like metal were developed to get deeper into the OS and allow you to do a lot more, and once again Visual studio will support all this. Microsoft's attack plan is develop 1 tool that all developers can use on any platform and with any language that they are familiar with. They simply need to select the target and the compiler knows what to do.
    10-27-2015 04:26 PM
  25. KSilcox's Avatar
    We have been working on the Windows 10 UWP version of You-Doo over here at Plutanium.com. It does take time to get everything working in the new environment. More time for more complex apps. I'm sure there are many developers working diligently on banging out their own UWP versions of their apps. I expect to see lots of them popping up over the next 6 months. :)
    Spectrum90 likes this.
    10-27-2015 07:46 PM
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