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11-02-2015 07:35 AM
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  1. vcarvega's Avatar
    A lot of the arguments being posted exist on mobile platforms as well... Both Android and iOS have perfectly capable browsers. Apps take up storage on either devices and do not affect performance. None of these are legitimate reasons why we shouldn't see Universal Apps take off.

    If anything, I think that we have to continue to see a surge in devices like the Surfaces Pro 4 and hybrids by other OEM's. When those numbers start to overtake the iPad and iPhone, consumers will be visiting the Windows Store in higher volumes... and allow Microsoft to boast the type of numbers to developers that draw attention.

    I don't see desktop users or traditional laptop users being as interested in using apps. But as a Surface user, I'm often interested in using a "tablet" version of some of the software or websites I'd typically visit on my desktop. I'm not sure what the true solution is... but I do really wish to see more developer support for Universal Apps. Because the ones that are done well are pretty awesome.
    10-28-2015 06:49 AM
  2. Sergiu Baiatu's Avatar
    What apps? You can install whatever you want the well known old way. I installed Steam and from there any game that I need. Vast majority of apps you can buy on the internet from the companies themselves. Why would anyone go to the windows store where they have to pay to MS commissions for that?
    10-28-2015 12:38 PM
  3. Sergiu Baiatu's Avatar
    A lot of the arguments being posted exist on mobile platforms as well... Both Android and iOS have perfectly capable browsers. Apps take up storage on either devices and do not affect performance. None of these are legitimate reasons why we shouldn't see Universal Apps take off.
    You don't have choice on iOS/Android, you either download the apps from the store or you don't have them at all. Not so on Windows where you can download the apps from their developers directly.
    10-28-2015 12:40 PM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    You don't have choice on iOS/Android, you either download the apps from the store or you don't have them at all. Not so on Windows where you can download the apps from their developers directly.
    That isn't necessarily the case with Android. I'm beta testing MixRadio for Android. I downloaded the apk using a browser, after opening a link in an email from the developers, and installed the app that way.
    Visa Declined likes this.
    10-28-2015 01:17 PM
  5. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    same goes for IOS. Get the certificate from the developer and link to install the app.
    10-29-2015 05:00 AM
  6. rhapdog's Avatar
    Despite Windows 10 being adopted at a massive rate, it seems developers are tepid as to the prospect of creating apps. In some cases, existing 8.1 apps are still left rotting while new apps seem few and far between. We're about 3 months since release with over 110 million installs.

    What is going to convince developers to look at making Universal Windows Apps?
    Here's the thing. Developers that have ignored making apps for Microsoft for so long will not turn their habits around in a few short months. There are a number of major developers that will have full-blown apps coming to Windows 10 soon, but contrary to popular belief, it takes time to write an app. It's not a weekend project. Three months just isn't enough time to create a quality app. You want a more realistic time-frame? Try waiting until Windows 10 Mobile has been released for a full year and then judge whether or not apps are starting to come to the platform. That's what it will take. Many developers are waiting on the Mobile before they get started to make for easier testing across devices, as some like to test on a physical device instead of an emulator. Emulators are fine, but in my experience, I would start off testing on an emulator, and once I felt it was near ready, would always move it to a physical device before a release. I'm retired from programming, but it's still common practice among quite a few in the field.
    10-29-2015 09:10 AM
  7. Krystianpants's Avatar
    We have been working on the Windows 10 UWP version of You-Doo over here at Plutanium.com. It does take time to get everything working in the new environment. More time for more complex apps. I'm sure there are many developers working diligently on banging out their own UWP versions of their apps. I expect to see lots of them popping up over the next 6 months. :)
    Never heard of the app but looked it up after your post and it seems pretty interesting. Glad to see you guys will have one for windows 10.
    KSilcox likes this.
    10-29-2015 09:16 AM
  8. Major Plonquer's Avatar
    People need to remember that there's a HUGE difference between mobile phone apps that are nothing more than a few hundred lines of kiddie-script Java or C# code and Windows applications which can take dozens of man-years to design and build and can run to millions of lines of code. You can't run a business on a mobile phone - unless your business makes money from fart noises.
    10-30-2015 12:19 AM
  9. runamuck83's Avatar
    Can someone explain to me why it is the new unproven Apple TV launches with high profile developer backing and apps - yet an OS with a solid user base with growing numbers (Windows 10) can barely muster up support from Facebook?

    Developer bias? Microsoft hatred? Lack of user knowledge of Windows (App) Store???
    wpn00b likes this.
    10-30-2015 09:37 PM
  10. illidanx's Avatar
    Can someone explain to me why it is the new unproven Apple TV launches with high profile developer backing and apps - yet an OS with a solid user base with growing numbers (Windows 10) can barely muster up support from Facebook?

    Developer bias? Microsoft hatred? Lack of user knowledge of Windows (App) Store???
    Because:
    1. 100% of users on apple TV need app vs. a small percentage of Windows 10 users (you can say all you and your friends use app on windows 10 but the reality is most people don't bother with store apps).
    2. Dev can make much more money on apple TV than on Windows because: (a) apple users are known to be more well-off and more likely to spend money, (b) apple has a good ad platform unlike the pathetic Microsoft's Pubcenter.
    3. It's pretty much the same code as iOS anyway so they just need to port their existing code.
    Spectrum90 likes this.
    10-31-2015 11:29 AM
  11. strength888's Avatar
    Can someone explain to me why it is the new unproven Apple TV launches with high profile developer backing and apps - yet an OS with a solid user base with growing numbers (Windows 10) can barely muster up support from Facebook?

    Developer bias? Microsoft hatred? Lack of user knowledge of Windows (App) Store???
    20% market share vs 2% market share, plus Apple fanatics will buy anything with an Apple logo on it.
    10-31-2015 11:43 AM
  12. runamuck83's Avatar
    20% market share vs 2% market share, plus Apple fanatics will buy anything with an Apple logo on it.
    I'm not talking phone. This entire post is about Windows 10 as a whole (emphasis on PC). Market share for that is huge
    10-31-2015 11:47 AM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    I'm not talking phone. This entire post is about Windows 10 as a whole (emphasis on PC). Market share for that is huge

    Like I said, market share doesn't matter if few in the market are buying apps. Windows is the #1 platform for free software. No matter what you want to do, there are almost always multiple rather powerful and free offerings to choose from.
    Laura Knotek and illidanx like this.
    10-31-2015 04:42 PM
  14. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Like I said, market share doesn't matter if few in the market are buying apps. Windows is the #1 platform for free software. No matter what you want to do, there are almost always multiple rather powerful and free offerings to choose from.
    Even if software is not free, the vast majority of PC users find the website of the software company and download the software from the company website after purchasing it. Most desktop Windows users prefer traditional x86/x64 software programs, not Store apps.
    a5cent likes this.
    10-31-2015 04:57 PM
  15. runamuck83's Avatar
    Even if software is not free, the vast majority of PC users find the website of the software company and download the software from the company website after purchasing it. Most desktop Windows users prefer traditional x86/x64 software programs, not Store apps.
    I'd be curious to know how much of that is just because majority of people don't know Windows has an "app store"?
    10-31-2015 07:40 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I'd be curious to know how much of that is just because majority of people don't know Windows has an "app store"?
    Or the app store is useless for the software needed. For example, I'd get Adobe Creative Cloud / Photography with Lightroom and Photoshop from Adobe's site.
    illidanx and a5cent like this.
    10-31-2015 08:25 PM
  17. elindalyne's Avatar
    Or the app store is useless for the software needed. For example, I'd get Adobe Creative Cloud / Photography with Lightroom and Photoshop from Adobe's site.
    I'd say the app store targets a different level of computer knowledge. If you can app parity in the windows app store, low knowledge people will look there before looking online. Even then, certain things are more compelling on an app than a website. Netflix is far superior in its app form than on a browser. The default MSN news app is way better than hunting down all the news via a browser.

    Heck, at work we're planning on packing our new html5 web application within an app on all platforms because it's just easier for our clients to access.
    Last edited by elindalyne; 11-01-2015 at 11:02 AM.
    Spectrum90 likes this.
    10-31-2015 08:31 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I'd say the app store targets a different level of computer knowledge. If you can app parity in the windows app store, people will look there before looking online.
    The thing is most PC users who do more than just surf the web, use email, and post on Facebook are more knowledgeable. They're looking for software that is more complex than anything in the app store.

    For example, PC gamers typically have high end hardware, custom built by themselves in many cases. They're not going to look for casual games in an app store. They'll either use Steam or download their games directly from the game company site.

    The same with photographers needing high end photo editing and processing software.

    The types of things that would be apps, not programs, would not even appeal to a casual PC user, since he or she would probably use those on a smartphone or a tablet rather than a PC.
    Last edited by Laura Knotek; 10-31-2015 at 09:47 PM.
    10-31-2015 08:39 PM
  19. elindalyne's Avatar
    Eh... I think there are still plenty of low knowledge users that still use a desktop on a regular basis and don't just use their smartphones. And even for people that would just use their smartphones, we have continuum.
    10-31-2015 09:22 PM
  20. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Distribution through the store has a few advantages over downloading programs: Security, better discoverability, a payment system, an update process and clean removal without impact in performance.
    The bridge to include desktop apps in the store could have a big impact in the adoption of the store as the official way to distribute apps.

    The store is good for the user, sooner or later will succeed.
    10-31-2015 11:01 PM
  21. Sergiu Baiatu's Avatar
    The W store is an imitation of the stores on mobile platforms. It is not a store with real PC apps. A few years back we did not have real apps on our dumb phones. So when they appeared people were very enthusiastic to install them just because we have never new any better stuff on phones. Not so with computers, on PCs we come from decades of complex apps. I have been a few times in he beginning in the W store and installed about 20 apps. Then later on I uninstalled almost all of them. Because they proved to be useless. And that on a powerful laptop with touchscreen. On a desktop with no touchscreen there are even less reasons to install them.
    I don't think MS future is very bright. Probably in 4-5 years it will split and the parts will be just another company in their respective fields.
    11-01-2015 07:02 AM
  22. Krystianpants's Avatar
    The W store is an imitation of the stores on mobile platforms. It is not a store with real PC apps. A few years back we did not have real apps on our dumb phones. So when they appeared people were very enthusiastic to install them just because we have never new any better stuff on phones. Not so with computers, on PCs we come from decades of complex apps. I have been a few times in he beginning in the W store and installed about 20 apps. Then later on I uninstalled almost all of them. Because they proved to be useless. And that on a powerful laptop with touchscreen. On a desktop with no touchscreen there are even less reasons to install them.
    I don't think MS future is very bright. Probably in 4-5 years it will split and the parts will be just another company in their respective fields.
    I use mostly store apps, web and a few w32 apps. The conversion of w32 apps is actually the hardest with visual studio out of all of them(astoria,islandwood) but unlike windows 8.1 there are less limits to what you can do so the apps can be converted. Not sure how easy it is to make them universal though. But it's a trend I'm sure developers will be jumping on since all new computers sold will be w10. It's the new users that will make the most impact initially. Users who upgraded are likely going to adapt slower. But honestly they need tutorials to use the start and store. Most people just continue using it in the same way. But there are mite apps showing up these days. Twitter app is actually getting a lot more users now that you can do everything in the app. I don't use the web one anymore. I imagine this will keep happening as quality apps show up.
    11-01-2015 08:17 AM
  23. runamuck83's Avatar
    I don't think MS future is very bright. Probably in 4-5 years it will split and the parts will be just another company in their respective fields.
    I really think that's a bit over the top in terms of Microsoft going the way of the ghost.

    But, I agree with part of your statement: Phones were never known to have complex programs, people use these apps because using the web-interface on a phone is not very conducive.

    On a PC they have been using programs/apps for ages, but the majority of users have moved away from using almost any programs on their computer in favor of using the web/browser.

    Others have said above that no-one will use the Store, they will just go to the web if they want to download a program. Part of that has to be due to that fact that most users have been conditioned to work that way for years and years. There has NEVER been a "Windows (App) Store" until now.

    (I don't even consider Windows 8 because laptop/desktop users either weren't aware of it or never wanted to use it because the message they got was it was for 'tablets/touch' only).

    So if you think about it users who started using Windows with XP or 7 have never known an app store for their PC. Microsoft has to educate these users about the benefits of an app over a website. THERE ARE BENEFITS - it's not made up.

    I've listed a few use cases of my own but obviously they're anecdotal - but I have found my own habits changing. Where in the past I'd go to the web to find something, I now first look in the Store. (Example, recently I wanted to make a photo collage for my daughter's birthday. I used the Store to find an app that let me do it Phototasic Collage - I found it and installed it faster using the Store than digging through Google search results attempting to avoid scam software).

    I believe there is a case for Windows Apps, Microsoft just needs to continue to educate users of the Stores existence and continue making the benefits clear to users. In time, I feel a lot more people will end up in the Store as well.
    Spectrum90 and tgp like this.
    11-01-2015 08:41 AM
  24. Krystianpants's Avatar
    MS could create an interesting incentive to OEMs. OEMs put out a windows 10 phone and their profits are purely driven by hardware purchases. MS on the other hand gets a cut of app sales among other things. MS should create a system where OEMs get a cut of Microsoft's, not the developers, earnings for app purchases when apps are downloaded using an OEM phone. This would at least let OEMs get something out of the partnership. OEM's take less chances with windows because hardware sales may not be as great and there's a lot of investment on their part.
    11-01-2015 09:55 AM
  25. Sergiu Baiatu's Avatar
    Indeed, you can do that but the usual user would not go this way. And the advanced ones are reticent as well do to security issues. I don't envisage W Store taking unless MS will institute some sort of barrier to alternative sources. And that might endanger the fate of Windows.
    I see this overjoy with recent MS moves but honestly, I don't think they have a bright future.
    11-01-2015 09:58 AM
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