[Krystianpants]

the main point though was... very few applications are useful (used) between a handheld and a desktop (or laptop) to need an app.... and if they are, the web interface (chrome normally) does a good job.

i don't normally download 8Gb files over torrents on the phone, but shapefiles and renders on the desktoop being downloaded / uploaded are almost constant. maps and other huge files, yes, happens on the desktop, not on the phone.

gps / gis stoftware is used all the time on the phone, rarely on the desktop

twitter/facebook/reddit/forums/whatever works great in a sync'd browser (chrome) and negates the need for an app

i just don't see very many (at all) applications that are actually being demanded for both desktop and phones, for this to matter.

Except desktops sales are slumping and hybrids are going up. So.... these apps even with GPS are useful for a lot of tablet hybrids with built in GPS. In fact, they make touch screen much easier to deal with than a typical browser. So while your point may be valid for old school methodology, you're not thinking about young people who generally use apps. Ipad has a fully functional browser. In fact, most people I know when they need something they think "is there an app for that". And they will prefer using the app on their phones than going to a website on their PC/tablet. This is also why the ipad is so succesfull with apps. They want their apps on a bigger screen so they use ipad if they have one. I'm one of those people despite growing up on browsers. Put more apps in the store and they will be more likely to use their hybrid or laptop or whatever they have. This is the kind of thinking that will gain traction with the App store. Of course, the app store needs more apps for that to become a reality. So we shall see what happens.

I have to disagree on part of this. The fact that the OS is not yet RTM is not an excuse of the apps missing or lacking features. On IOS this does not happen and did not happen ever with a beta OS: see IOS 7 which was a complete OS refresh. If a developer is really interested in a platform WILL release an app while the OS is still in beta and will focus on apps that are missing: see Italy for example which has apps for banks, shops, local facilities on WP too because there the market share is higher than other regions. If Microsoft keeps on kicking users with their idiotic policies such as many of them: recent one with the onedrive fiasco, they won't be able to gather more customers, and will for sure lose many of the current ones.
In Romania, game consoles are being bought like hot cake, games too. But here most prefer the PS4 instead because of the always online stupid policy on the xbox one...you could have a connection issue from your ISP and your xbox one won;t play any games...how nice is that??
Getting back to the app situation, whether many like it or not, it's MS's fault all the way that devs don't pay interest and users are not switching.

Most of the apps out are using 8.1 API. Developers know 8.1 is completely being removed and the tools are not 100% ready yet. This isn't an Apple scenario where nothing really changes for the developer except new features. So they are testing new beta features on an app that is already out without those features. It's a big difference. Windows 10 really is completely rewritten. This is why you see this disconnect between 8.1 MS apps and the current ones. You are missing features, etc. Why would that be if they could just re-use the code. No they have to write it from scratch. And I don't really know much about the xbox but I agree online policy is really bad. They really need to change that when xbox's get updated to Windows 10.

And my bank for example supports both the desktop and mobile so i'm super happy with it. And the apps are awesome too not just some bad web wrappers. They are actually better to use than their website. So easy and fast. Everything is laid out nicely. So yah a bank should know they need to cater to all their users. And with the big money banks make their should be no excuse not to have an app because of development costs.

[garak0410]

Exact same boat. Picked up an iphone 6s plus while I wait and see what 950 brings to the table app wise. Hate most of it, but some stuff works so friggin well.

Even the apps we had on Windows Phone are just so much better on iOS/Android...not that Facebook and FB Messenger are critical apps but OMG, they are so much better on Android...love the "chat heads." Love having quick and easy access to kids school apps, chore apps...everything seems snappier.

And yes, I do believe Windows Phone is the best platform and I may come back of the app gap closes.

[anon(7929613)]

It's like saying there is an obesity problem in the US. That doesn't mean EVERYONE is fat.

It does not mean that every country on earth has an obesity problem just because your country has an obesity problem. Take Europe as an example. Unlike USA where hardly 1% people use windows phone, in the big 5 EU countries more than 14% people use windows phones.

[anon(7929613)]

You speak of YOUR experience while at same time TELLING people that "our" and "us" are happy with things, as if you yourself speak for a group? Who that mouse in your pocket?

I never said that "we" are HAPPY with things. I just said "our experiences". That can be anything - +ve or -ve. Neither I nor you have the right to say anything about it. BUT MY experiences have been pretty good!

[920Walker]

It does not mean that every country on earth has an obesity problem just because your country has an obesity problem. Take Europe as an example. Unlike USA where hardly 1% people use windows phone, in the big 5 EU countries more than 14% people use windows phones.

In the birth land of Cortana and Surface Books, the gap does exist.

[anon(7929613)]

In the birth land of Cortana and Surface Books, the gap does exist.

May be. I feel so sorry for YOU! But the truth is that I don't care. My only point was that don't extrapolate your experiences, whatever they are, so much that it overshadows the experiences of others around.

[Finchee]

I don't want, need and will never use any of the apps you mentioned. So, does that make me a fanboy because the phone serves my needs with the apps that are available? Or, maybe it just makes me a satisfied customer. Calling names doesn't help the cause, either.

I apologize if calling you a fanboy offended you. My wife calls me a fanboy all the time because I'm a .NET developer who has a Windows 10 PC, a Surface 3, Xbox and well, used to have a Windows Phone. It doesn't seem to offend me that I'm called a fanboy. I like what I like, I choose what I like. Anyway, I again apologize if people are offended by the words fanboy.

[920Walker]

May be. I feel so sorry for YOU! But the truth is that I don't care. My only point was that don't extrapolate your experiences, whatever they are, so much that it overshadows the experiences of others around.

No need to feel sorry for me, I have what I need.

[MSStackFan]

It seems odd that there's SUCH focus on the app gap from the broad view. The number of apps on a phone are not the only value proposition. I never heard app gap as a deal breaker for Mac migration in the nineties (yet folks tried to use it), it was cost, and value, and upgradeability... The user experience was what was touted as the key differentiator (to the benefit of the Mac). It's funny how the marketing of why one must apt the iPhone and Android are the app gap. And why you shouldn't adopt Android is due to fragmentation. So only the iPhone is truly acceptable because no app gap, and no fragmentation?? This is marketing that had found it's way into the broad acceptance of good phone/bad phone.

I say BS. My user experience is MOST important to me and, again to me, there's none better than Windows Phone. There is an app gap but it shouldn't be so oddly weighted in the platform's merits.

[Finchee]

So we seem to have this cycle of arguments here, where people say, I have all the apps I need/want, there is no app gap for me. And other's say, I don't have all the apps I need/want, so there is an app gap for me. I'm going to try and explain this as simple as possible.

Let's say we have 3 WP users, Bob, Dave and Charlie.
- Bob is from Europe, uses a lot of apps but has all the apps he needs/wants. Is there an app gap for Bob? No.
- Dave is from Asia, uses very few apps and has all the apps he needs/wants. Is there an app gap for Dave? No.
- Charlie is from America, uses a good number of apps BUT DOES NOT have all the apps he needs/wants. Is there an app gap for Charlies? YES.

So considering all the WP users in this equation, not just users in the US, all the users around the world, is there an app gap for the Windows Phone platform? YES.

We are not enemies here, we are all supporters of Windows Phone. I understand people don't need the same amount of apps other users need, but if you want the Windows Phone platform to survive, if you want new Windows Phones to keep coming in the future, you should recognize that the app gap exists and is a major threat to the platform's survival. Microsoft, as large as they are, is not going to keep throwing money into Windows Phone if the market share doesn't improve, because as a business, it doesn't make sense to spend money on something that is not benefiting the company.

How do we improve the Windows Phone market share? We need more users. Microsoft has already gone after the low end users with their budget phones in the past. It is not enough. In this day and age, that means we need people to switch from their iPhones and Androids to Windows Phones. How do you get those iPhone and Android users to switch to Windows Phone? You make it easy for them to switch to Windows Phones by making the apps they love available on the platform.

[Dueydoodah]

The desktop user base (market potential in numbers) is huge, agreed.

The desire of that base to have the same applications on their sit-down desktop machine AND their phone is.... crickets.

Yes, the browser (Chrome is the winner here) is desired, but what other applications are actually desired ?



If there was a market for cross device applications, developers would be cashing in, instead of ignoring it. THere is NO MARKET for cross device applications.

Actually, I'd love all of my applications and apps to move to my phone, once it pans out that there is an x86 phone. This is coming, and I think it will be here quicker than we realize. I just wish it were here now because I too am struggling to justify sticking with WM.

[7a2eer]

Now the app gap is an issue? WP has already reached critical mass, let's see if Microsoft will turn things around before it is too late.

*Spoiler Alert*
They won't. You'd think they'd get those "essential" sexting apps like Snapchat down by now (with all the cash they are sitting on)

[Guytronic]

[NOTE]Thread cleaned of off topic please stay on topic[/NOTE]

[Rajram]

Just go for iphone and use ms services if you love them.... I was and still windows phone lover but unfortunately the platform is having lot of app gaps.... I dont want to have the waiting experience so i switched to iphone last year.. Glad i made the move... The app experience is wonderful and i use ms office, one drive , etc... Once the app gap is fixed and when surface phone premium edition releases then ill be back to windows phone... Until then i dont have to compromise on things on a phone

[badMojo69]

I switched to android and use as many Microsoft services as I can.
No loss for me.

[Isror]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I jumped from WP to Android (Note 4) and I've been miserable. I always swore I'd never get an iPhone, but as it stands now I may "have to" jump to an iPhone.

I had Android when Verizon first pushed Droid. I left it for WP. WP is a fantastic user experience, but the app gap for my current job is getting too large.

I HATE Android now. I can't stand how clunky it is. They keep throwing hardware at software problems covering up for lazy developers.

[photographerdan]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I jumped from WP to Android (Note 4) and I've been miserable. I always swore I'd never get an iPhone, but as it stands now I may "have to" jump to an iPhone.

I had Android when Verizon first pushed Droid. I left it for WP. WP is a fantastic user experience, but the app gap for my current job is getting too large.

I HATE Android now. I can't stand how clunky it is. They keep throwing hardware at software problems covering up for lazy developers.

I have an android tablet with 2gb of ram, high end tegra processor and tons of memory and after more than half a day of use it'll just come to a crawl. The only way to keep it running at a reasonable pace is through a combination of third party memory managing apps, reboots and uninstalling stuff until I get to the point where I have to do the seasonal factory reset. After the factory reset it'll work fantastic but as time goes on the lagging and idiosyncrasies gradually come back. It's a cycle that still exists today after all of these years and after all of these phones sold. I'm pretty floored at how it's tolerated.

I think people get baited on the cutting edge hardware appeal because frankly the o.s. leaves a lot be desired from a user standpoint. If this were my daily phone I would go insane.

As much as apple might as well be the complete opposite of what Microsoft is. . .it's mobile offerings offer a much more similar user experience when it comes to tight hardware-software integration, stability and overall how polished the os is. Android couldn't be any further from that smooth experience we're accustomed to.

[houkoholic]

Everybody experience is different. Yes when it works it's fast and is easy, but when it doesn't work it just keeps saying it couldn't recognize me and then I had to toggle to enter my PIN.

So just like TouchID then?

I have iPhones and iPads with TouchID, and they sometimes don't work too.

[captaincalamity]

To be completely honest, I don't a flying bag of sweaty toffee's if WP is missing apps, as long as Microsoft don't ditch windows phone and we have a future of ever so slightly improving UI and the ability to pin mobile friendly websites, which in my opinion are far more intuitive than most of the slimmed down apps that try and do the same job, if you want games and trivial potato apps get a cheap Android tablet to sit about wasting your time on, the essentials are there ready for WP users to tap into, be proud that you are using a device that is a step out side the pen full of Apple and Samsung sheep, most people haven't got a clue how homogenised there choices are.

[Habib Dagher]

it does not upload videos that are previously saved and glitched A LOT on video upload when shot by camera directly.

[ohgood]

1 Except desktops sales are slumping and hybrids are going up. So....

2 these apps even with GPS are useful for a lot of tablet hybrids with built in GPS.

3 In fact, they make touch screen much easier to deal with than a typical browser.

4 So while your point may be valid for old school methodology, you're not thinking about young people who generally use apps. Ipad has a fully functional browser. In fact, most people I know when they need something they think "is there an app for that". And they will prefer using the app on their phones than going to a website on their PC/tablet.

5 This is also why the ipad is so succesfull with apps. They want their apps on a bigger screen so they use ipad if they have one. I'm one of those people despite growing up on browsers.

6 Put more apps in the store and they will be more likely to use their hybrid or laptop or whatever they have. This is the kind of thinking that will gain traction with the App store.

7 Of course, the app store needs more apps for that to become a reality. So we shall see what happens.

1 & 2 - which hybrids ? i see surface has gps now (congratulations ms, you're waking up!) are there any sales figures to show how it's doing ?

3 this is worded as though touch screens + browsers are a problem, unless an application is used. if it's a poorly coded website with a lot of overlapping UElements, yes. i thought those went away a few years ago. maybe i'm missing them (thankfully though).

4 if this is true, microsoft has lost a generation of users- because there is not 'an app for that' in the ms store. the ipad/android stores, yes, but there's a sticker on the ms store that says 'coming soon, just wait' and the kids aren't waiting.

5 ipad's success was built on timing, excellent UI, and developers clamoring for a shot at a million dollar app, a few years ago. there is no clamor of developers for windows' mobile environment.

6 & 7 this microsoft 'tracton' catch22 has been talked about for years now. no change.

[Krystianpants]

1 & 2 - which hybrids ? i see surface has gps now (congratulations ms, you're waking up!) are there any sales figures to show how it's doing ?

3 this is worded as though touch screens + browsers are a problem, unless an application is used. if it's a poorly coded website with a lot of overlapping UElements, yes. i thought those went away a few years ago. maybe i'm missing them (thankfully though).

4 if this is true, microsoft has lost a generation of users- because there is not 'an app for that' in the ms store. the ipad/android stores, yes, but there's a sticker on the ms store that says 'coming soon, just wait' and the kids aren't waiting.

5 ipad's success was built on timing, excellent UI, and developers clamoring for a shot at a million dollar app, a few years ago. there is no clamor of developers for windows' mobile environment.

6 & 7 this microsoft 'tracton' catch22 has been talked about for years now. no change.

Yogi tablet pro 2 has had GPS since 2014. Many different OEMs are releasing newer models that also contain it or can be added during build.

Have you used chrome on a touch screen? I don't particularily enjoy it. A lot of websites like reddit or even wpcentral are a pain on a touch screen. If I have apps that can help me avoid it then I do. And while you are cynical, it's fine because you're one of the users that doesn't care to adapt and you have that choice.

Of course MS has lost these users, because they fell behind. That's the whole purpose of them trying to regain those users through windows 10. And they will likely not get those users till they do solve the issue, and that's up to them. They certainly are trying this time around. They never really did previously. They took the wrong approaches no doubt.

Yes, exactly people do want to make money off apps. Websites don't make people much money, especially since most people use adblockers. And obviously those companies who came to the game first are the ones with apps.

Yes, it has been years, doing the wrong approach. So wrong that they wanted the CEO replaced and gave him a nice free card by making him resign gracefully. Plus Balmer was horrible with building relationships. He constantly attacked the competitors, that's not cool at all. They even did some studies that showed political candidates that do attack ads are less trusted and do more harm than good. But not sure if that was only within Canada.

Anyways, you don't have to stay with MS if you truly dislike them so much. They may not always do things right but I do like their services. I used linux for a good 18 years. I switched to windows 10 because I actually liked it.

[FearL0rd]

Just search snapchat windows phone astoria, You can install the android version on windows 10
Maybe that is an option

Not anymore. They removed the Android subsystem in the latest builds

[FearL0rd]

Again a generalized statement. Just because there is an app gap for you doesn't mean that everybody feels the same way. So stop speaking for us. You are not our elected representative.

Not just 99% of the users

[anon(7929613)]

Not just 99% of the users

Relax bro. Do one thing. Buy an Android smartphone (One plus one will be a nice choice) and use it till Windows store has all the apps that you want. Let's stop fighting.....