12-21-2015 06:40 PM
28 12
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  1. Garry Williams1's Avatar
    Alot of people may not have a laptop or PC but a tablet, so I'm confused as to why Microsoft has gone backwards and has literally **** on tablets. Using Windows 8.1 on tablets was so great and I really regret upgrading to 10. For starters the annoying useless task bar, why the hell would anyone need a task bar on a tablet. Who are these morons at Microsoft sitting there thinking that a damn task bar is a great idea on a tablet. Then there is the start menu on the left too, again it's a tablet why would you even have that in tablet mode. Now we have app layouts, I would compare the app layout on Windows 10 to a nasty stepped on cheese burger...you have all this space on a tablet a screen but yet the morons at Microsoft thought that the way it was on 8.1 was way too good so let's make it like **** in 10. Keep moving along with the best thing that was on Windows 8.1, the on screen touch to swipe back, forward, settings, connections and so much more. Now whenever you are using any apps especially Windows Store and Edge it's damn near impossible to go back to anything after clicking on something else, don't even try it in the Windows Store cause you can't. Oh and the same thing goes for settings. I wish I didn't delete my 8.1 I had saved to make disk space for 10. Overall I'm unhappy with Windows 10 on my tablet, and I hate it...the update which I thought would have fixed Windows 10 for tablets only made it worst cause now I can no longer connect to any WiFi or devices. Thanks Microsoft:)
    12-03-2015 02:25 PM
  2. Dan TheMan86's Avatar
    I've never used W10 on a tablet, but do you have it in "Tablet Mode"? Doesn't that get rid of the task bar?
    12-03-2015 02:52 PM
  3. Garry Williams1's Avatar
    Yeah I am, and I see you didn't read the post cause that is the main problem!
    mister2d likes this.
    12-03-2015 03:17 PM
  4. Guzzler3's Avatar
    +1,000

    W10 in tablet mode is 3 steps back from W8.1. Bloody awful.

    Fortunately, I kept my copy of W8.1 for my Surface Pro 3 for my daily driver machine. Life is good.

    I do have a Surface Pro 1, that I put W10 on, and keep it up to date. Just for when I think "Maybe I should put W10 on my SP3...", then I pull out the SP1 and try to use it for a day in tablet mode. I really don't use it more than 15 minutes, then I realize "God, this SUCKS!!!" and put it away and go back to my W8.1 SP4.

    When ever I read about an update for W10, I do apply it to the SP1. Hoping that there is some sort of improvement... haven't seen it, yet.
    12-03-2015 06:02 PM
  5. Garry Williams1's Avatar
    I'm going to find some way of putting 8.1 back on it.
    12-03-2015 06:33 PM
  6. Loc Ngo's Avatar
    I actually find it quite enjoyable. The first thing I did when I got my Dell Venue 8 Pro was upgrading to Windows 10. No second thought! It's not that I thought Windows 8.1 was bad, it was quite good. But it was not good enough to sacrifice all the brilliant functionalities in Windows 10. Different people, different opinions. :)
    If your device came with Windows 8.1 out-of-the-box and you have upgraded to Windows 10 for within a month, you can restore directly from Recovery in Settings. But if it's past 1 month already, you will need to download the ROM for your device from the manufacturer website to restore it. Good luck!
    Last edited by Loc Ngo; 12-03-2015 at 10:22 PM.
    rmeigs likes this.
    12-03-2015 09:22 PM
  7. doghouseriley's Avatar
    Wow, cant believe anyone who actually understands how to operate basic electronic devices could prefer 8.1 on tablets. MS could not give away tablets with 8.1 on them. W10 on tablets is the best of all worlds.
    12-03-2015 09:41 PM
  8. Dewg's Avatar
    Go into Desktop Mode - right click on the Taskbar and choose Properties. Now check "Auto-hide task bar". Switch back to Tablet Mode.

    The Taskbar will be visible while you're on the "Start Screen" with your tiles. However, the moment you launch an app, the taskbar will disappear and your app will be full screen like it was in Windows 8(.1)

    BTW - another tip - right click on the taskbar while in Tablet Mode and choose "Show touch keyboard button". This allows you to bring up the keyboard if you ever need it and it doesn't appear.

    Another tip - if you swipe up from the bottom you can get the taskbar to reappear while in an app (and it's set to hide). This is important for the Back button while in settings, or other apps that need you to go back - just swipe up, press "Back" and the taskbar will disappear again. Or you can swipe up again from the bottom to re-hide the taskbar. This is the same gesture on Windows 10 Mobile (and Windows Phone 8.1).
    12-04-2015 12:44 AM
  9. mrnorth123's Avatar
    Agreed, the experience on tablet mode in windows 10 is way worse than windows 8.1 which worked quite well. Some of my biggest complaints which I have reported to MSFT as feedback are:

    1) Lots of times I ahve to close soft keyboard manually when entering something in a textbox and press enter, or press screen to select something. In windows 8, soft keyboard disappeared automatically.

    2) Swipe back is a must, aspecially when that annoying small back arrow is on the top menu in some apps and on the bottom menu in other apps. Swipe back should always work when in tablet mode

    3) In some menus, UIs the buttons are a tad too small to be really optimized for using fingers.

    /H
    12-04-2015 07:01 AM
  10. Dan TheMan86's Avatar
    Go into Desktop Mode - right click on the Taskbar and choose Properties. Now check "Auto-hide task bar". Switch back to Tablet Mode.

    The Taskbar will be visible while you're on the "Start Screen" with your tiles. However, the moment you launch an app, the taskbar will disappear and your app will be full screen like it was in Windows 8(.1)

    BTW - another tip - right click on the taskbar while in Tablet Mode and choose "Show touch keyboard button". This allows you to bring up the keyboard if you ever need it and it doesn't appear.

    Another tip - if you swipe up from the bottom you can get the taskbar to reappear while in an app (and it's set to hide). This is important for the Back button while in settings, or other apps that need you to go back - just swipe up, press "Back" and the taskbar will disappear again. Or you can swipe up again from the bottom to re-hide the taskbar. This is the same gesture on Windows 10 Mobile (and Windows Phone 8.1).
    So it turns out he was just doing it wrong? Let's see if he replies...
    EMINENT 1 likes this.
    12-04-2015 02:27 PM
  11. Sedp23's Avatar
    Works fine for me in tablet mode no real major complaints

    Sent from mTalk
    rmeigs likes this.
    12-04-2015 11:36 PM
  12. Garry Williams1's Avatar
    Wow, cant believe anyone who actually understands how to operate basic electronic devices could prefer 8.1 on tablets. MS could not give away tablets with 8.1 on them. W10 on tablets is the best of all worlds.

    There were not alot of W8.1 ttablets so I don't know what you're talking about, I am talking about the functionality of W10 on tablets which is useless. 8.1 was made for tablets with all the great touch screen features, 10 has zero of that and went backwards for tablets.
    mister2d likes this.
    12-05-2015 06:51 AM
  13. Garry Williams1's Avatar
    Works fine for me in tablet mode no real major complaints

    Sent from mTalk
    Well it's a problem for me and alot of people who updated from 8.1 to 10.
    mister2d likes this.
    12-05-2015 06:55 AM
  14. Garry Williams1's Avatar
    Go into Desktop Mode - right click on the Taskbar and choose Properties. Now check "Auto-hide task bar". Switch back to Tablet Mode.

    The Taskbar will be visible while you're on the "Start Screen" with your tiles. However, the moment you launch an app, the taskbar will disappear and your app will be full screen like it was in Windows 8(.1)

    BTW - another tip - right click on the taskbar while in Tablet Mode and choose "Show touch keyboard button". This allows you to bring up the keyboard if you ever need it and it doesn't appear.

    Another tip - if you swipe up from the bottom you can get the taskbar to reappear while in an app (and it's set to hide). This is important for the Back button while in settings, or other apps that need you to go back - just swipe up, press "Back" and the taskbar will disappear again. Or you can swipe up again from the bottom to re-hide the taskbar. This is the same gesture on Windows 10 Mobile (and Windows Phone 8.1).
    I have done that from the first time I upgraded to 10, that doesn't hide it...it only auto hide it when you have an app open and it still pops up. You're completely missing the point, nothing in 10 is tablet friendly and is a massive step back from 8 and 8.1. 8 and 8.1 was the OS for touch, but when Microsoft updated to 10 it was made mouse and keyboard. Worst part are the hamburger menu, do you know how stupid that is for touch. In 8 and 8.1 all I took was a simple swipe.
    12-05-2015 07:04 AM
  15. Dewg's Avatar
    I have done that from the first time I upgraded to 10, that doesn't hide it...it only auto hide it when you have an app open and it still pops up.
    If the taskbar disappears when an app is open, and the app takes the full screen, what's the problem? Why does it matter if it's visible on the start screen with the tiles? I will admit that there should be a toggle option for Tablet Mode that auto-hides the taskbar only when in Tablet Mode, bringing it back when in Desktop mode, but that's a minor annoyance. I think you're picking nits with that one.

    I think the issue is that you miss the gesture controls in Windows 8.1, specifically in Metro IE. I agree they need to bring those back, and they've said they are working on it. As for hamburger menus in apps versus gestures (tickling from top or bottom of screen), that's a design issue to unify the platform with iOS and Android. Making it easy for developers to port their apps is key to reducing the app gap. And since most people are used to hamburger menus from having an iPad or Android tablet, switching to a Windows tablet is easier.

    Now whenever you are using any apps especially Windows Store and Edge it's damn near impossible to go back to anything after clicking on something else, don't even try it in the Windows Store cause you can't.
    There's a back button that works just fine. While in Desktop Mode, it's at the top of the screen, while in Tablet Mode it's at the bottom of the screen in the taskbar. If you've auto-hidden your taskbar, just swipe up from the bottom (tickle up) to bring the taskbar back and press the back arrow. The bar will hide again.
    12-05-2015 12:48 PM
  16. rmeigs's Avatar
    Agree that Win 8.1 was a better tablet OS, but Win 10 works great also. Running tablet mode on my HP Pro 608 G1 is very enjoyable -- modern UI, no desktop taskbar, swipe to close, swipe from the left to switch active programs, swipe from the right for the Action Center, and so much more.
    12-05-2015 01:27 PM
  17. EMINENT 1's Avatar
    While I agree, it'd be nice for the task bar to auto hide in tablet mode on the start screen, keep in mind the status bar is also always there on ipads and android tablets too.

    The only thing missing from 8.1 is the swipe in from right to switch apps. Everything else is fantastic. Would not want to go back to no Groove and no universal apps. That is going backwards and doesn't help the platform. Think outside the box.
    12-05-2015 01:51 PM
  18. Guzzler3's Avatar
    Wow, cant believe anyone who actually understands how to operate basic electronic devices could prefer 8.1 on tablets. MS could not give away tablets with 8.1 on them. W10 on tablets is the best of all worlds.
    The problem is that not many people had the "epiphany" moment when using 8.1. Granted it took longer to get to that moment when using a keyboard and mouse, than with a tablet. But when that moment came, all became clear to a lot of us.

    Going to an iPad, then back to W8.1, you really realized "Oh my doG!! W8.1 is awesome!!". But going back and forth from iOS to W10, really produces a "Meh..." response.

    I will admit that MS, and Apple, AND Android do have one major flaw in the user interface. They hide to many features/functions that are not intuitive to find. The number one rule in UX design is DON'T HIDE THINGS. You know you're doing things wrong when you read stories of "10 hidden features that everyone should know."

    With that said, yes... W8.1 was a major FU. There were to many things that were hidden. But once you found them, in a weird way, they made sense.

    Now the problem with W10, is MS still hasn't nailed down UXI (User Experience Interaction). There are to many things that are done one way in one app, but the same idea is done a different way in a different app. It's like iOS, there is no rhyme or reason, its just what that particular programmer felt like.

    Which leads me to a personal opinion, observation, as a programmer as to why there is an "app gap" and it isn't closing very quickly. Because MS hasn't nailed down the User Experience Interaction Guidelines, myself (and maybe others) just aren't writing code till they do. If I design and app interface today, it seems like in a couple of weeks they change their mind and what I designed today, won't fall inline with the new way of doing it.

    Microsoft say's it practically daily, that W10 is a work in progress, please bear with us. I know that they have published a document for UWP app design. But again... it's a "work in progress". Or it seems that way. I have a feeling that the "Redstone" update due next year, will have further refinements in the UXI due to user feedback, which then nulls out previous doctrine.

    So until MS finally says "Okay, were DONE with tweaking the UXI. This is it!" I'm sitting back, surf'n the net, watching movies, etc. till that day comes.
    12-05-2015 04:15 PM
  19. heroicgio's Avatar
    There were not alot of W8.1 ttablets so I don't know what you're talking about, I am talking about the functionality of W10 on tablets which is useless. 8.1 was made for tablets with all the great touch screen features, 10 has zero of that and went backwards for tablets.
    Windows 8 was a step in the right direction but a lot of ppl didn't like it because it totally disregarded mouse and keyboard users(touch screen laptops weren't as popular then). Now Microsoft is trying to find the balance between mouse and keyboard and touch. I can only imagine that over time tablet mode will be improved
    12-05-2015 04:37 PM
  20. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    I agree - largely - with the OP. His complaints also apply to W10M.

    W8.1 was the best tablet OS by far (in my opinion, of course). For those who were prepared to put just a small amount of effort into learning it, they got to enjoy the slickest, most productive and most modern user experience by far.

    Likewise WP8.1 stood head and shoulders above its Android and iOS competitors in terms of its innovative, smooth, elegant and stylish user interface, and when it appeared it instantly made Android and iOS look like clunky old hangovers from the last century.

    However, W8.1 on a desktop machine was a car crash. Everything about the desktop experience was wrong - you simply cannot force a touch paradigm on a mouse/keyboard-oriented computer and it's only thanks to the likes of Stardock that I was able to use it at all.

    W10 is still an unfortunate compromise. Yes, it's better than W8.1 on a desktop machine, but it still insists on space-wasting tiles on the Start menu (with no option to change them to icons or simple text labels), and we've still got oversized elements in the UI as if Microsoft can't quite admit that W7 is still the best UI for pure mouse/keyboard/big-or-multiple-screen computers.

    In tablet mode Microsoft have clearly given up with that excellent, innovative UI and decided to assume its users are morons who simply won't or can't learn anything new or different. Thus we end up with a load of great functionality that has disappeared or been replaced with something they might recognise from their Android phone. Massive disappointment.

    I think W10M has suffered more than any other variant, though. Virtually the whole user experience of WP8.1 has been thrown away and replaced with something that looks and works almost identically to Android or iOS, but with a layer of live tiles on the top. Microsoft say this is to make it easier for developers to port their apps to the Windows platform. (Yeah, like that's gonna work....) WP8.1 was an astonishingly innovative user interface for a mobile phone, and stood head and shoulders above its competitors. I mourn its passing.

    W10 is a shed-load of compromises that - as far as I can see - simply don't need to exist. Microsoft did NOT need to ditch those edge swipes we enjoyed on W8.1 tablets. Microsoft did NOT need to 'touchify' any part of the desktop user interface. Although I accept that Microsoft had a legitimate reason to make W10M look like Android or iOS, I wish they hadn't because I don't believe it will encourage very many developers to port their apps.

    I like Windows 10. But you know what? I actually prefer WP8.1 on my phone, W8.1 on my tablet and W7 on my desktop, so that's what I made happen. I uninstalled W10 from all three and installed the OSs I've just listed. Overall I'm getting a better user experience.
    dgr_874 and mister2d like this.
    12-07-2015 05:52 AM
  21. Dewg's Avatar
    W8.1 was the best tablet OS by far (in my opinion, of course). For those who were prepared to put just a small amount of effort into learning it, they got to enjoy the slickest, most productive and most modern user experience by far.
    Steve, you're right on several points. And, most importantly, the experience is what you want on Windows 8.1. The only downsides are that support for Windows 8.1 will end sooner than Windows 10, and new apps being written for the W10 Universal App framework may not work under 8.1. I know it's weird, but Windows 8.1 Universal Apps and Windows 10 Universal Apps are different frameworks.

    Other than those two issues, I don't see a reason why anyone can't stay on 8.1 and enjoy it for many years.
    12-07-2015 11:07 AM
  22. gregh57's Avatar
    I bought a surface pro 3 with a dock - the only time I've splashed out and bought what I thought would be high quality hardware. Win8 was okay but 8.1 really set things on a good track. I couldn't believe all the ridiculous press about how awful it was. But Microsft obviously did and now I have win10 - one of if not the worst OS's I have ever used - on hardware that is also complete junk. The dock loses connected drives all the time ie many times a day. But at least the net doesn't disconnect itself all the time now like it used to. And the screen has fuzzy yellow bars down the sides now. Windows 10 was a complete step back in usability - why for instance did they completely change the way you could snap screens? Onedrive is junk - today I had a repeated notification that I couldn't delete OneNote links from Onedrive. I mean every couple of seconds this notification appears. Puzzled me as I don't use Onenote, hardly use Onedrive and have done nothing to change anything about them. Getting rid of those notifications was not trivial - in the end I disconnected Onedrive sync and deleted all the files. But I am not going back to dropbox - instead when my current projects finish in the next couple of weeks I am taking advantage of the very good replacement guarantee for the Surface Pro and sending it back because of the screen problem, getting the replacement, then selling it and buying a Macbook Pro - and I hate Apple as a company. My years old desktop could edit video in Premiere easily - on my Surface Pro - t can barely play across a single jpeg, let alone an actul film clip. Hopeless..
    12-08-2015 12:17 AM
  23. Dan TheMan86's Avatar
    I bought a surface pro 3 with a dock - the only time I've splashed out and bought what I thought would be high quality hardware. Win8 was okay but 8.1 really set things on a good track. I couldn't believe all the ridiculous press about how awful it was. But Microsft obviously did and now I have win10 - one of if not the worst OS's I have ever used - on hardware that is also complete junk. The dock loses connected drives all the time ie many times a day. But at least the net doesn't disconnect itself all the time now like it used to. And the screen has fuzzy yellow bars down the sides now. Windows 10 was a complete step back in usability - why for instance did they completely change the way you could snap screens? Onedrive is junk - today I had a repeated notification that I couldn't delete OneNote links from Onedrive. I mean every couple of seconds this notification appears. Puzzled me as I don't use Onenote, hardly use Onedrive and have done nothing to change anything about them. Getting rid of those notifications was not trivial - in the end I disconnected Onedrive sync and deleted all the files. But I am not going back to dropbox - instead when my current projects finish in the next couple of weeks I am taking advantage of the very good replacement guarantee for the Surface Pro and sending it back because of the screen problem, getting the replacement, then selling it and buying a Macbook Pro - and I hate Apple as a company. My years old desktop could edit video in Premiere easily - on my Surface Pro - t can barely play across a single jpeg, let alone an actul film clip. Hopeless..
    Wow, I've never heard such a bad review of the Surface before...
    12-08-2015 08:31 AM
  24. ausidog's Avatar
    I prefer some elements of W8.1, but let's get real here... Windows 10 is a step forward.

    Notification Center
    Action Buttons
    Cortana
    Unified Settings Menu
    Edge (much better with the exception of the swipe to navigate)

    And those are just the big guys. Sure, I have some problems with a handful of regressive UI changes here and there, but the whole thing is a step forward, feature-wise.
    12-08-2015 01:34 PM
  25. Steve Thackery's Avatar
    I prefer some elements of W8.1, but let's get real here... Windows 10 is a step forward.

    Notification Center
    Action Buttons
    Cortana
    Unified Settings Menu
    Edge (much better with the exception of the swipe to navigate)
    I agree with most of those, especially the Settings menu (whoever implemented that on WP8.1 should have been fired). But what annoys me is that ALL of those could have been implemented WITHOUT throwing away the entire UI language of WP8.1.
    12-08-2015 04:44 PM
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