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08-17-2016 11:03 AM
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  1. Krystianpants's Avatar
    The only hing that I haven't tried from the suggestions is switching off the paging file, but it BSOD on me this morning.
    Did you try what I mentioned?

    Anyways, are you on the stable TH2 build or Redstone? If on TH2 try installing Redstone from the insiders build. It's not that bad at this point since it's close to release. There are still bugs that pop up here and there but better than getting BSOD.
    06-25-2016 12:47 PM
  2. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    Hmm, have you tried other sticks of RAM?

    Also try disabling the page file, if it doesn't BSOD then you're windows install may have been corrupted some how.
    It doesn't BSOD every time I do a clean shutdown, so it may be some time before I can tell if the other changes that I did today fixed it, and I'd rather not do too much at once, so I'm not disabling paging until I've confirmed the the other things didn't resolve the problem. If it BSOD's tomorrow then I'll disable paging.

    I don't think that it's a corrupt Windows install as I've had the same problem on an upgrade and on a clean install on the same PC. The clean install was on a brand new SSD straight out of the box.
    06-25-2016 03:06 PM
  3. feherneoh's Avatar
    Actually what you say, that it crashes after shutdown but not after reboot tells me that fast startup is actually enabled, and so it crashes when it tries to get back from that partially hibernated state. The fact that it does only crash with 16GB of RAM would mean that you have problems with slot 2. Try cleaning it, as that is the most probably error source if it does crash with any possible combinations, and you only have 2 RAM slots.
    The strange thing is if memtest does not find anything, as it should detect these kinds of problems. Another suggestion would be to shut down the PC by start -> power -> shift + restart, then selecting shutdown PC on the blue screen BEFORE inserting the additional RAM, so it won't try to load back a state with different amount of RAM specified
    Ecm likes this.
    06-25-2016 04:40 PM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    The only hing that I haven't tried from the suggestions is switching off the paging file, but it BSOD on me this morning.
    You really should have tried this. Deactivate the page file already (on all drives), reboot, and report back! It might not be the preferred solution, but it could give us clues.

    If there is no change, open an elevated command prompt and type this:

    powercfg /H OFF

    and then report back on that too.
    Last edited by a5cent; 06-27-2016 at 04:24 PM.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-25-2016 07:34 PM
  5. TechFreak1's Avatar
    It doesn't BSOD every time I do a clean shutdown, so it may be some time before I can tell if the other changes that I did today fixed it, and I'd rather not do too much at once, so I'm not disabling paging until I've confirmed the the other things didn't resolve the problem. If it BSOD's tomorrow then I'll disable paging.

    I don't think that it's a corrupt Windows install as I've had the same problem on an upgrade and on a clean install on the same PC. The clean install was on a brand new SSD straight out of the box.
    I see, as you have had the same issue with an upgrade and clean install.

    I don't suppose you have tried changing the data cables?

    Or the sata ports on the motherboard?

    Somewhere along the lines data is being corrupted some how.

    Also check the event logs, that should provide some indication what is going haywire. It might be a system service failing to stop at shut down intermittently / then auto restart again at login.
    06-26-2016 11:21 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ If it was cabling the issues would likely be more random (not confined to login).
    TechFreak1 likes this.
    06-26-2016 12:47 PM
  7. WesleySmalls's Avatar
    Have you tried both memory modules individually? To me it just sounds like a bad memory module


    I also don't get why people keep suggesting to disable the page file. Unless there is some new form of magic involved here it is exactly the thing you should not do.
    06-27-2016 10:02 AM
  8. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    I see, as you have had the same issue with an upgrade and clean install.

    I don't suppose you have tried changing the data cables?

    Or the sata ports on the motherboard?

    Somewhere along the lines data is being corrupted some how.

    Also check the event logs, that should provide some indication what is going haywire. It might be a system service failing to stop at shut down intermittently / then auto restart again at login.
    When I did the fresh install I left the original disc in the computer (With the intention of using it as a data volume) I plugged the new disc into a different port on the motherboard using a brand new cable. I just disconnected the power from the old disc. So both the port and the cable are different.

    I've checked the log files, but they never record anything. I have an event which says "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly." from the next time I booted the PC up, but nothing from the BSDO itself.
    06-27-2016 10:05 AM
  9. pkcable's Avatar
    Have you tried both memory modules individually? To me it just sounds like a bad memory module


    I also don't get why people keep suggesting to disable the page file. Unless there is some new form of magic involved here it is exactly the thing you should not do.

    I'm with this guy, It could also be that you have somehow violated the special rules for adding memory to your motherboard that SOME motherboards require. For example some require you add memory in pairs, or that you use certain slots. It's PROBABLY a bad module though since it sounds like you have a matched pair, BUT double check the documentation for your motherboard which you should be able to find online. Also as this guy suggests try each module separately to see if you can find the bad one, or determine that it IS something else. :)
    06-27-2016 10:39 AM
  10. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    I'm with this guy, It could also be that you have somehow violated the special rules for adding memory to your motherboard that SOME motherboards require. For example some require you add memory in pairs, or that you use certain slots. It's PROBABLY a bad module though since it sounds like you have a matched pair, BUT double check the documentation for your motherboard which you should be able to find online. Also as this guy suggests try each module separately to see if you can find the bad one, or determine that it IS something else. :)
    This is actually the memory that came pre-installed in the PC. I ran the machine for over a year with Windows 7 and there were no memory issues, I then upgraded to Windows 10 (Basic in place upgrade), and started getting the BSOD about 1 clean boot out of 3. I then did a clean install on an SSD.

    A totally clean install, on a totally new disc, with a new port and a new cable. The same RAM in the same slots with the same BIOS and BIOS settings. This did not resolve the problem.

    I've tried each stick individually. I put one stick in each spare slot in turn, and then repeated with the other stick. So each stick has been in the machine on its own in each slot. Everything was OK. No problems at all.

    I then tried putting both of the sticks in together, in different slots (Matching and non-matching.

    Regardless of where I put the sticks the machine would BSOD 1 in about every 3 clean boots if I had them both in.

    So, to round up, 2 factory installed sticks. BSOD if both are in the machine, regardless of where they are. No BSOD if only 1 stick is in, regardless of where it is. Poblem only exists with Windows 10.

    I've upgraded the BIOS, and checked the disc for errors. I've manually set the Paging file to a large number, and to a small number, and to automatic (But I haven't turned it off).

    I received a BSOD when Windows chose the graphics card software, and when I installed the manufacturer's software.
    06-27-2016 02:58 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    Have you tried both memory modules individually? To me it just sounds like a bad memory module
    It's PROBABLY a bad module though since it sounds like you have a matched pair
    The various executable binaries that make up the OS are loaded to different memory addresses at each boot. If it was a certain range of memory addresses that was corrupt, something different would be loaded into that range each time (or nothing at all), so the OP would witness either no problem at all, or crashes occurring at seemingly random points in time. If it was a general memory problem that wasn't confined to a certain address range he'd also be seeing random crashes. In both cases the very extensive memory check would also have noticed something.

    There is no way it's a faulty memory module. At the very least it's not only that.

    I also don't get why people keep suggesting to disable the page file. Unless there is some new form of magic involved here it is exactly the thing you should not do.
    Because the OS writes stuff to the paging file during shutdown and reads from it during startup (except if you had a crash... hint hint). Turning it off would at least allow us to rule out one of the possible causes. With the exception of the memory test and BIOS update, I don't think any of the other tests were helpful, because they didn't allow us to exclude anything. Changing the size of the paging file achieves pretty much nothing in this regard.

    I'd disable the hibernation file for a similar reason, as it's also something that is written to during shutdown and read from during startup. Deactivating that would also allow us to remove one thing from the list of possible causes.

    Both of those are super easy to test, and if neither changes anything I'd start looking more closely at drivers.
    06-27-2016 04:50 PM
  12. ttsoldier's Avatar
    I really don't see what the big deal is and why you do not want to disable the paging file for the simple sake of troubleshooting.
    06-27-2016 07:07 PM
  13. pkcable's Avatar
    I really don't see what the big deal is and why you do not want to disable the paging file for the simple sake of troubleshooting.

    Yea I got no issue with that! :)
    06-27-2016 07:35 PM
  14. Dan Cardwell's Avatar
    When I did the fresh install I left the original disc in the computer (With the intention of using it as a data volume) I plugged the new disc into a different port on the motherboard using a brand new cable. I just disconnected the power from the old disc. So both the port and the cable are different.

    I've checked the log files, but they never record anything. I have an event which says "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly." from the next time I booted the PC up, but nothing from the BSDO itself.
    Try without the original disk connected, using just the new disk, if the old disk is dodgy and the system is using it (possibly for a page file??) then that could possibly give you problems when booting? Also if you are using both disks make sure the computer is booting from the disk that you think it is... If it's still booting from the old disk (or trying to when it fails) then all the stuff with the new disk won't help
    06-27-2016 08:17 PM
  15. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    Try without the original disk connected, using just the new disk, if the old disk is dodgy and the system is using it (possibly for a page file??) then that could possibly give you problems when booting? Also if you are using both disks make sure the computer is booting from the disk that you think it is... If it's still booting from the old disk (or trying to when it fails) then all the stuff with the new disk won't help
    When I installed the new disc I disconnected the original so that I wouldn't accidentally install windows on the wrong one, I left it unplugged for a while, and it still BSOD.
    06-28-2016 01:52 AM
  16. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    I really don't see what the big deal is and why you do not want to disable the paging file for the simple sake of troubleshooting.
    I'm only trying one thing at a time, and the other solutions sounded more promising so I put them at the head f the queue of things to try.

    I'm still getting a BSOD with the other ones, so I've now disabled paging on all discs.
    pkcable likes this.
    06-28-2016 01:53 AM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    I may have missed it, but how did you upgrade to W10 exactly?

    a) Online/in-place upgrade?

    b) Install from media to a second partition alongside you existing windows installation

    c) Install from media to the same partition (over) the existing windows installation?

    d) Format of the single OS partition, then install from media to that

    e) restoration of a W10 image file

    etc

    Basically, how many Windows OSes are installed on your system and in what order and by what mechanism did they get there.

    Looking forward to the results of your pagefile and hibernation deactivation file tests.
    06-28-2016 03:44 AM
  18. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    I may have missed it, but how did you upgrade to W10 exactly?

    a) Online/in-place upgrade?

    b) Install from media to a second partition alongside you existing windows installation

    c) Install from media to the same partition (over) the existing windows installation?

    d) Format of the single OS partition, then install from media to that

    e) restoration of a W10 image file

    etc

    Basically, how many Windows OSes are installed on your system and in what order and by what mechanism did they get there.

    Looking forward to the results of your pagefile and hibernation deactivation file tests.
    The first time I took a factory installed copy of Windows 7 and used the in place upgrade option from the nag screen that Microsoft puts on your task area. I did a regular upgrade over the top of Windows 7 on my master boot disk using the default options.

    The second time I took a completely new disc. I unplugged the old disc, and plugged a new SSD into a different Port on the motherboard using a brand new cable and a different power cable from the original.

    I then used the Media Creation tool and a Windows 10 ISO from the Microsoft website and installed a totally clean install from a USB Stick. I used the default options. At the time the other disc was unplugged, so this Windows 10 install was the only OS on the machine, and there was nothing else that it could have booted to.

    I've since plugged the old disc back in to use as a data volume, but the computer BSOD when it wasn't there. My computer isn't set to multi-boot to different OS, my boot sector\partition is set up using the Windows 10 default settings.
    06-28-2016 03:58 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ good. That rules out windows being confused over what its system drive is.
    06-28-2016 04:17 AM
  20. Daeneroc's Avatar
    Had quite the same problem few years ago (like 5 years ago) when i built a new PC on windows 7.

    Had 4x4 GO ram corsair and had BSOD randomly but not with 2x4GO only. Switched sticks, switched slots, ran mem test for hours, cleaned install on fresh SSD, updated firmware, bios, drivers etc ... Nothing would do.

    I finally bought 2x4 GO ram from an other brand (don't remember which one) and put 2x4GO from corsair and 2x4GO from the other brand, though it's not recommended. Worked like a charm for years.

    Still can't explain why lol.
    v535 likes this.
    06-28-2016 04:54 AM
  21. WesleySmalls's Avatar
    The various executable binaries that make up the OS are loaded to different memory addresses at each boot. If it was a certain range of memory addresses that was corrupt, something different would be loaded into that range each time (or nothing at all), so the OP would witness either no problem at all, or crashes occurring at seemingly random points in time. If it was a general memory problem that wasn't confined to a certain address range he'd also be seeing random crashes. In both cases the very extensive memory check would also have noticed something.

    There is no way it's a faulty memory module. At the very least it's not only that.
    A faulty memory module doesn't have to mean that something fails on the same address consistently.

    But yes, considering that each work fine individually a faulty memory module is becoming more unlikely.



    Because the OS writes stuff to the paging file during shutdown and reads from it during startup (except if you had a crash... hint hint). Turning it off would at least allow us to rule out one of the possible causes. With the exception of the memory test and BIOS update, I don't think any of the other tests were helpful, because they didn't allow us to exclude anything. Changing the size of the paging file achieves pretty much nothing in this regard.
    Ah yes, that makes sense.

    Anyways, to the OP:

    What kind of power supply are you using in the computer?(brand, Watt, etc.) I'm starting to think it is the power supply that is the problem here. Power supply's have reduced output over the course of years, and can give many interesting problems if it can't give sufficient power anymore.
    06-28-2016 05:46 AM
  22. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    What kind of power supply are you using in the computer?(brand, Watt, etc.) I'm starting to think it is the power supply that is the problem here. Power supply's have reduced output over the course of years, and can give many interesting problems if it can't give sufficient power anymore.
    I'm not certain why a problem with the power supply would bring up an error on a clean boot?

    I have a Corsair CX 750W 80 PLUS, factory installed like the RAM. I keep it clean and dust free, and my case is well cooled. The internal sensors say that my PC idles not so far above ambient, and that temperatures while gaming are lower than you'd expect for my components as I opted for extra cooling fans.

    I would have thought that a faulty power supply would have given me problems with Windows 7 as well, and that I'd have been having problems while gaming or other high intensity activities.
    a5cent likes this.
    06-28-2016 05:56 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    A faulty memory module doesn't have to mean that something fails on the same address consistently.
    Obviously. You might want to reread my post.
    06-28-2016 05:58 AM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    Had quite the same problem few years ago (like 5 years ago) when i built a new PC on windows 7.



    Had 4x4 GO ram corsair and had BSOD randomly.

    Ehmm... his crashes aren't random. Completely different problem.
    06-28-2016 06:03 AM
  25. WesleySmalls's Avatar
    I'm not certain why a problem with the power supply would bring up an error on a clean boot?

    I have a Corsair CX 750W 80 PLUS, factory installed like the RAM. I keep it clean and dust free, and my case is well cooled. The internal sensors say that my PC idles not so far above ambient, and that temperatures while gaming are lower than you'd expect for my components as I opted for extra cooling fans.

    I would have thought that a faulty power supply would have given me problems with Windows 7 as well, and that I'd have been having problems while gaming or other high intensity activities.
    That's the fun of problems with the power supply, it can manifest in whatever way possible.

    An extra module would bring in extra load(although not much), and if the connector cannot give enough voltage then that could give problems.

    If possible, you could try different memory modules or a different power supply, see if that solves the issue
    06-28-2016 08:28 AM
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