08-17-2016 11:03 AM
150 ... 456
tools
  1. Jason Rosenthal's Avatar
    If it's the PSU I'm going to have to wait until it totally fails
    You can do what you want, but changes in power are affecting your BSOD and not software. You know that there is no guarantee that there won't be a fire and/or a large CPU/GPU/SSD killing surge should it totally fail. It doesn't take much to weld a 22nm transistor together.

    I did see a 500w Silverstone 80 plus gold certified for ~70 regular price online. Avoid getting an oversized PSU as they will create more heat and problems. I usually prefer ~400w but NVidia recommends 500w for your 760.
    Last edited by Jason Rosenthal; 07-08-2016 at 02:57 PM. Reason: grammar
    xandros9 likes this.
    07-08-2016 02:56 PM
  2. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    You can do what you want, but changes in power are affecting your BSOD and not software. You know that there is no guarantee that there won't be a fire and/or a large CPU/GPU/SSD killing surge should it totally fail. It doesn't take much to weld a 22nm transistor together.

    I did see a 500w Silverstone 80 plus gold certified for ~70 regular price online. Avoid getting an oversized PSU as they will create more heat and problems. I usually prefer ~400w but NVidia recommends 500w for your 760.
    The BSOD literally happens at the exact same time. every time. I mean to the exact second from when the power is switched on every single time that it happens.

    It's also rock solid stable during gaming, which is when you'd expect to see a PSU related problem, and doesn't happen after a dirty boot. The issue also didn't happen under Windows 7.

    I really don't see how this can possibly be a PSU issue. I've never heard of a PSU acts differently between a clean and a dirty boot. Or which only happens under Windows 10.
    07-12-2016 01:46 AM
  3. Jason Rosenthal's Avatar
    The BSOD literally happens at the exact same time. every time
    Sorry, I thought it was only happening after long periods of your computer being unplugged.

    So how are you able to boot with both memory sticks in the system currently?
    xandros9 likes this.
    07-12-2016 11:00 AM
  4. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    Sorry, I thought it was only happening after long periods of your computer being unplugged.

    So how are you able to boot with both memory sticks in the system currently?
    I think that I put it in the first post.

    I only get the BSOD if 3 conditions are met

    1) Both sticks of RAM are in
    2) The last shutdown was clean
    3) The PC has been switched off for some time (Typically, overnight. A couple of hours during the day doesn't seem to trigger it).

    If all 3 conditions are met it BSOD, I reboot by pressing the power button which means that condition 2 and 3 are not met, so it boots absolutely perfectly.

    I literally only get one of these BSDO per day, and it's always the first time that I boot that day. No matter how many times I shut down and switch back on again from total power off during the day it remains stable.
    07-12-2016 01:41 PM
  5. midnightfrolic's Avatar
    Sounds like you have faulty hardware. New computer time unless you want to further invest more time troubleshooting the issue, and put up with bsod daily.
    07-12-2016 02:44 PM
  6. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    The fact that the error is only present on a clean boot says that this is software.

    The fact that changing the startup apps and services changes the error also says that this is software.

    If this was a OSU or RAM issue you'd expect an error when gaming or performing other high stress tasks, if it were an MB error you'd see no change between a clean and a dirty boot.
    a5cent likes this.
    07-12-2016 04:08 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Let me know if you ever get around to using Ghost.

    A concise and accurate description of how behaviour changes using different OS/driver settings may also help. It's never been 100% clear how frequent which errors occur under which circumstances.
    I understand you don't always get the same errors, just not what changes or when.
    07-13-2016 06:37 AM
  8. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    Do you have a download link?
    07-13-2016 06:39 AM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Sorry, GhostBuster:
    https://ghostbuster.codeplex.com/
    Use it after deactivating drivers in Device Manager as we once discussed.
    07-13-2016 06:44 AM
  10. Jason Rosenthal's Avatar
    The fact that the error is only present on a clean boot says that this is software.
    Software absolutely cannot react differently to the length of time your computer is unplugged as per condition 3). It could be a software problem as you say only if it BSOD on each and every clean boot. It's likely the very common hardware problem of a bad capacitor in your power supply or motherboard. I would try to isolate the power supply first. My gut feeling is that it is a motherboard cap or voltage regulator for the memory modules unfortunately due to condition 1), but hopefully not.

    You don't have special hardware that isn't well supported by a clean install of Windows 10 out of the box. It think what you are trying to achieve in changing your boot sequence and settings is like the dramatic scene in the Apollo 13 Movie where there trying to find the start sequence that doesn't blow the breaker for the capsule. Since you're not in the capsule or forced to use a suspect power supply, just swap it out. :)
    07-13-2016 04:34 PM
  11. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    I'm going to have to disagree with you quite vociferously on this one. Software frequently - By Design - will check the current date\time and will react differently depending on what it sees.

    My computer probably performs several dozen time\date checks on boot.

    For example, Windows 10 has many scheduled maintenance events, such as checking for updates, or contacting it's DHCP to check the lease on it's network address. Some maintenance functions are also performed on a scheduled basis. If you switch your computer off during one of the events they can activate when you switch it back on again.

    I don't have a spare PSU to swap out, and I can't justify spending the money on a new unit on the off chance that my current one has a problem. It's also a Chilblast PC which means that it's fully cable managed. So removing the PSU would essentially entail dismantling and resembling the PC. Including removing the MB from the case to get at the cables routed behind it. That's pretty much an entire weekend to break it down and reassemble it, and the risk of damaging a component is one that I'm not willing to take on somebody else's hunch which I think is inaccurate.

    I really don't see how this can be a motherboard\RAM\PSU problem as the error is so specific.

    I've run stress routines on the memory and the CPU. Both in Windows and form a boot disc. I loaded both up to the hilt for several hours. They got hotter, and ran more intensively than they would during normal us, and the PC remained stable as a rock.

    I only get this error on clean boot. ONLY clean boot. A hardware error would manifest itself more frequently, and more randomly.

    What's more, the error always happens at the exact same place in the boot cycle. I can literally start a stopwatch and time when it will BSOD to a fraction of a second.

    Is there a capacitor that is only used when the logon screen is displayed?
    a5cent likes this.
    07-14-2016 05:52 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    Software absolutely cannot react differently to the length of time your computer is unplugged as per condition 3).
    No, but then again, nobody is claiming that his problem is dependent on how long the computer was UNPLUGGED. His problem is dependent on how long ago the computer was TURNED OFF, after having been properly shut down. Software very well can and does react to that.
    There is absolutely nothing in his problem description that is typical of a PSU related problem.
    07-14-2016 10:57 AM
  13. Jason Rosenthal's Avatar
    Is there a capacitor that is only used when the logon screen is displayed?
    I'm just trying to help after most stopped. I've been through similar problems dozens of times; I'm a Deer PSU fiasco survivor, however I can't say the same about the computers. RAM related issues can often be traced back to poor power. Or am I in wrong about it being RAM related now from point 1)? :)

    If you are unfamiliar with how RAM and power are related; RAM requires a refresh cycle hundreds of times per second in order to retain its values. If it loses power, a refresh is missed and then your computer is going to crash eventually. It is usually expected to crash at random, but not always. RAM requires good stable power at all times to operate. Also more RAM requires more power. Your stress tests are likely passing because the drained capacitor I propose is fully charged by the time the tests are stared and/or the power supply is in its efficiency window under the higher load. Either way, your RAM at that point is getting the power it needs.

    I'm thinking the problem likely starts within the first second powering on from cold boot after the caps have drained and not a specific logon screen capacitor. Generally, the first stage of the application lifecycle is initialization of variables. The initialization of the UEFI may have failed in some weird way (like RAM losing its refresh power) that isn't discovered until later in the boot process. The UEFI or any software isn't going to back and check that the initialization phase worked. Perhaps it is the same address space(s) in RAM that are losing their refresh each time and the reason why you are seeing the identical blue screen logs. A defective/drained capacitor can cause all this on first cold boot because the power is used to finish charging the capacitor instead of refreshing the RAM.

    If it there were a software issue or anything to do with the real-time clock like you say, it should have failed with one stick of RAM as well. If were a driver issue relating to RAM size, then it should fail every boot with 16 GB installed. There is nothing unique about your hardware and largely the same design Intel has been using for the last 5 years sadly. I have the same brands in my system, just slightly older. A clean install of Windows 10 is all that is required for a reliable setup provided you don't have a hardware/firmware issue. Recheck your motherboard firmware, perhaps its only supplying DDR3L 1.3 volts instead of the required 1.5 volts for your RAM. Check the bios to see if it reporting the correct model of CPU, if not it probably isn't getting the correct power either. A marginal cap is really the only thing that I can think of that covers all your symptoms.
    07-15-2016 05:25 PM
  14. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    I've checked the firmware, and the BIOS. All are at the most current version.

    I checked the voltage, the BIOS confirms that it is at 1.5v, and the Windows diagnostics software says that it is also at 1.5V

    CPU and RAM are both being correctly reported in BIOS and in Windows.

    If it were a capacitor issue, and it isn't fully charged, then shouldn't I simply be able to boot to BIOS for 5 minutes, and then boot to Windows, as the time in BIOS would allow the capacitor to charge?

    The motherboard is set to Auto, so if the voltage dips the RAM is clocked down. Even if it were only getting 1.3V it should remain stable.

    I think that this is software because when I add\remove software from the startup routine the time that the error happens changes. Something is being loaded\read earlier\later and is causing the BSOD to happen earlier\later.

    As far as I'm aware Windows 10 will split the load between two sticks if it detects that they are correctly paired. Could it simply be an older 32 bit driver or service that doesn't like being split up between two 8GB sticks? If the software can't address 16GB then it won't like being split across 16GB.

    If they is only one stick then it simply resides at the highest address that it can register on the 8GB stick.

    I'm going to remove and uninstall my sound card today as it wasn't factory installed. It's an older model Sound Blaster and is the most likely component to still be running older 32 bit packages.
    07-16-2016 03:00 AM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    I'm going to remove and uninstall my sound card today as it wasn't factory installed. It's an older model Sound Blaster and is the most likely component to still be running older 32 bit packages.
    Good. Once removed also use GhostBuster to rid yourself entirely of the corresponding driver, as it otherwise stays on your system.
    07-16-2016 10:20 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    Your stress tests are likely passing because the drained capacitor I propose is fully charged by the time the tests are stared and/or the power supply is in its efficiency window under the higher load. Either way, your RAM at that point is getting the power it needs.

    I'm thinking the problem likely starts within the first second powering on from cold boot after the caps have drained and not a specific logon screen capacitor.
    I have degrees in both electronics and software engineering, and all I can say is that this makes no sense whatsoever. There is also no such thing as a "logon screen capacitor". Please stop the FUD.

    It's the voltage regulator on the motherboard that powers the DRAM modules, and the DRAM modules themselves handle the memory refresh. If the OP's issue was in any way related to memory refresh cycles (which it isn't), the issue would be the result of a defective DRAM module, and we'd witness the problematic behavior whenever that faulty DRAM module was inserted, not only when both of them are inserted.

    Perhaps it is the same address space(s) in RAM that are losing their refresh each time and the reason why you are seeing the identical blue screen logs.
    In an earlier post I already mentioned that this can't possibly be the cause. Read up on Windows ASLR if you want to learn why.
    TechFreak1 likes this.
    07-16-2016 10:58 AM
  17. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    Sorry, GhostBuster:
    https://ghostbuster.codeplex.com/
    Use it after deactivating drivers in Device Manager as we once discussed.
    I've removed the sound card, and an HD that I was using as a data volume, and I've uninstalled about 85 entries from Ghost which is also several years older than the PC.

    I did a standard shutdown and powered the PC back up and there were no error messages, so the Ghost process didn't do anything nasty.

    The PC doesn't BSOD if shut down for a short period of time, so I won't know until tomorrow morning if this has made any difference. The fact that BSOD doesn't happen for reboots, short shut downs, or dirty shut downs suggest to me that it's definitely a software issue rather than a hardware issue.
    07-16-2016 01:16 PM
  18. Jason Rosenthal's Avatar
    Adding the second stick of RAM along with turning off the power for extended periods are the only 2 triggers for the BSOD found so far. I'm 100% sure that these are hardware changes. In other words, not a single instruction of code was executed in the creation of the root conditions. I would not ignore these clues in favor of clues that occur much later in the boot process. Both conditions happen to be related to power as the extra RAM will add some load. Having your power supply checked is not a wild guess, but rather an important precaution.

    I was thinking about your dirty shut down condition avoiding the BSOD and a possible workaround. Is the BIOS portion of the boot quicker if a proper shutdown is performed? I know my same vintage ASUS laptop (i7-4700HQ, 770M, 16GB) will boot quicker only if the shutdown was proper. If your BIOS allows, try setting it to always perform a slow boot or full test to emulate part of this condition. Windows 10 will also skip many checks on boot if the last shutdown was clean, perhaps there is a registry setting to force these checks every time as well.

    Should this or any software change turn out to resolve the issue, are you going to be satisfied with such a workaround knowing that other people with the same hardware can boot with no software modifications?
    07-18-2016 01:46 PM
  19. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    It's not the sound card (Which is 1 of two Pre-Windows 7 components in my PC, the other being a WD disc).

    I physically removed the card and the old disc which I was using as a data volume, and ghosted the software, and I got a BSOD at the usual time.

    When I put the card back in I got a Resource Not Owned BSOD on boot.

    I also ghosted the software for my NVidia 960, but left the card in so that I could let Windows take control. Same BSOD.
    07-19-2016 03:10 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    Don't reinstall the soundcard for now. If you put it back in remove it again and rerun GhostBuster.
    Then upload the next crash dump file.
    07-19-2016 08:29 AM
  21. kg4icg's Avatar
    You have a power problem on your motherboard, it is hardware related, and it's involving the dimm slots. If you have 4 dimm slots, move or to the other 2. If the blue screen still happens. Then you might need a new motherboard. Also check in your bios that power settings aren't over volting, you don't need more then 1.5volts .
    07-19-2016 09:56 AM
  22. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    You have a power problem on your motherboard, it is hardware related, and it's involving the dimm slots. If you have 4 dimm slots, move or to the other 2. If the blue screen still happens. Then you might need a new motherboard. Also check in your bios that power settings aren't over volting, you don't need more then 1.5volts .
    This cannot be a PSU problem for the simple reason that it only effects Windows 10. Windows 7 runs smoothly. A power problem would also be evident during times of heavy load, like gaming.

    I pulled my sound card, and a second HD that I was using for data, and ran it with minimal load. The fans were right down, and it was nice and cool, and I still got the exact same BSOD in the exact same place. If it were a PSU problem reducing the load should have resolved it, but nothing.

    The motherboard is set to automatically manage the voltage. If there wasn't sufficient power it would simply under-volt them. My PSU is 750watt, which should easily handle gaming with twin graphics cards. I only have 1. If a 750watt PSU was malfunctioning so badly that it couldn't supply enough power to a PC that is probably only using 250Watt, then I'm pretty certain that I'd see random BSOD all the time.

    If the MB was over volting the RAM I would see random instability rather than instability at such a specific time (Particularly during gaming), and my motherboard is designed with overclocking in mind so it should remain stable even if the RAM was over volted.

    I've tried the other slots. Same problem.

    If I mess around with the programs and service in the startup (either adding more or removing some) then the error comes earlier or later. Telling me that it's something that's loading on startup that's causing this.
    07-19-2016 11:35 AM
  23. PaulMP's Avatar
    Hello!

    I have the same problem.

    It all started with a new pair of corsair 2x8gb 1866mhz DDR3 RAM Kit,
    2x4gb 1866mhz DDR3(G.Skill) works fine (Asrock-Z97 Extreme 4 Mobo).

    Single channel works fine.
    On UEFI defaults: BOSD on win loading screen with "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" or if I can get into windows then it crashes with ATTEMPTED_WRITE_TO_READONLY_MEMORY (ntoskrnl.exe).

    No BSOD or error after a restart.
    I'm going to test it with other RAM kits, and a brand new PSU.
    08-15-2016 02:42 PM
  24. Aaargh Zombies's Avatar
    Hello!

    I have the same problem.

    It all started with a new pair of corsair 2x8gb 1866mhz DDR3 RAM Kit,
    2x4gb 1866mhz DDR3(G.Skill) works fine (Asrock-Z97 Extreme 4 Mobo).

    Single channel works fine.
    On UEFI defaults: BOSD on win loading screen with "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" or if I can get into windows then it crashes with ATTEMPTED_WRITE_TO_READONLY_MEMORY (ntoskrnl.exe).

    No BSOD or error after a restart.
    I'm going to test it with other RAM kits, and a brand new PSU.

    Pleeeeease post again once you try some more RAM and a PSU. I'd really like to know if this resolves the problem for you. I can't really justify spending another $100 on new hardware on the off chance that it fixes the problem, and most of my friends have laptops or older PCs so I can't swap any parts over.

    I'm running with the one memory chip right now as only having 8GB of RAM isn't a big deal at the moment.
    08-16-2016 06:21 AM
  25. PaulMP's Avatar
    Replacing the memory did the trick, no more bsod.
    08-17-2016 11:03 AM
150 ... 456

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone has not been able to get notifications like me?
    By Zhenren Zhou in forum Windows 10
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-28-2016, 12:17 PM
  2. Cumulative Update for Windows 10 does not work. What do I do?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Windows 10
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-27-2016, 04:42 PM
  3. Mobile Outlook not working (error 80004005)
    By r0st4 in forum Windows 10 Mobile
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-23-2016, 01:48 PM
  4. Platinum Games would love Metal Gear Rising on backwards compatibility, but it's up to Konami
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-23-2016, 06:20 AM
  5. Why isn't my Lumia 630 turning on?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Nokia Lumia 630
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-23-2016, 05:15 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD