[Wbutchart1]

From what I am reading two new windows phones may be on the way....one a Nokia.....

Funker W5.5 Pro Windows 10 Mobile: price and specs – Mashable NG

Nokia C1 Rumors : Launches With Android and Windows 10 Mobile Variants – Mashable NG

[MLXVI]

I believe this is part of Microsoft's mobile strategy and the reason for the SEC filing which many cite to show Windows phone as dead. Whereas it might be true that Windows Phone is dead, i.e. the hardware, Windows Mobile, i.e. the software is still alive. You could argue it's newly born as it is in a prolonged beta stage with current users basically being testers.

I think now Microsoft plan to let different OEM's create the hardware whilst Microsoft maintains the software, much like the Windows 10 OS (excluding the surface line). After enough time and enough testing hopefully the app gap and software issues will be resolved and then perhaps in a few years Microsoft will re-enter the mobile hardware business again with the Windows Surface Phone.

Hopefully we hear something in BUILD 2017. Windows Mobile (software) is alive, whereas Windows Phone (Microsoft's own mobile hardware) is actually dead (for the meantime). I think a problem is that many people are conflating the two and not understanding the role of Windows mobile users today, which is essentially for now and the near future, that of testers.

[anon(6078578)]

You might want to look at the date of those articles...

[RumoredNow]

You might want to look at the date of those articles...

What he said.

The Funker 5.5 AND a 6.0 have been out... Both are rebadged Coship models. The 5.5 is a Moly X1 with a Funker label and the 6.0 is a Moly PCphone rebranded.

Nokia... Nada.

[Wbutchart1]

What he said.

The Funker 5.5 AND a 6.0 have been out... Both are rebadged Coship models. The 5.5 is a Moly X1 with a Funker label and the 6.0 is a Moly PCphone rebranded.

Nokia... Nada.

I was looking at the moly x1 on amazon uk, is it any good? Sadly no sign of the idol yet in Europe.

[RumoredNow]

Dan Rubino found quite a bit to like about it. Coship Moly X1 unboxing and hands-on with the thinnest LTE Windows Phone yet | Windows Central

[DJCBS]

Nokia will NOT be releasing a Windows Phone ever again. Of that I can assure you ;)

[Drael646464]

What he said.

The Funker 5.5 AND a 6.0 have been out... Both are rebadged Coship models. The 5.5 is a Moly X1 with a Funker label and the 6.0 is a Moly PCphone rebranded.

Nokia... Nada.

You know, I can't seem to find any evidence the PCphone w6, was released. And I can't find anywhere I can be brought. Any clues there? (Specially if the funker 6 is one, and its out already)

The x1 however is on amazon, gets good reviews (although its frequencies are a little quirky, so I can't use one)

The one noteable downside it had no insider support, not sure if that's still true, but for an uncommon phone like this, that could make the difference between updates and no updates I think?

[Drael646464]

Nokia will NOT be releasing a Windows Phone ever again. Of that I can assure you ;)

Sure, right now "they" are making budget android devices (actually its weird naming them like a single entity, because the name/brand has passed hands three times now, its more a label than an entity) and probably won't in the medium term, but no one is Nostradamus.

[Drael646464]

Funker - Windows 6.0

This is the funker 6, which like the moly w6, doesn't actually seem to be onsale. It's like neither ever came to market.

[RumoredNow]

Funker - Windows 6.0

This is the funker 6, which like the moly w6, doesn't actually seem to be onsale. It's like neither ever came to market.

Near as I can tell, Coship cancelled their release of the Moly PCphone due to overwhelming apathy. The Funker W6.0 Pro came out spring of '16 in Spain and the other rebadged PCphone was the Mouse Computer Madosma Q601 that launched summer of '16 in Japan. Both seem to have been short lived.

[Drael646464]

Near as I can tell, Coship cancelled their release of the Moly PCphone due to overwhelming apathy. The Funker W6.0 Pro came out spring of '16 in Spain and the other rebadged PCphone was the Mouse Computer Madosma Q601 that launched summer of '16 in Japan. Both seem to have been short lived.

Shame, with x1 getting decent reviews, and there being very few mid priced, higher end windows phones (or phablets especially), would have been interesting to see more of. There's very little in the midsection that runs fast enough for continuum....

[DJCBS]

Sure, right now "they" are making budget android devices (actually its weird naming them like a single entity, because the name/brand has passed hands three times now, its more a label than an entity) and probably won't in the medium term, but no one is Nostradamus.

1 - Well, it's quite simple. Refer to HMD as Nokia.
Because the only thing keeping HMD and Nokia separated is a legal construction (kinda like "Microsoft Mobile" was NOT actually part of the Microsoft Corporation but a separate company which Microsoft controlled). HMD was created by Nokia, with executives who moved specifically from Nokia to HMD, with ex-employees that were Nokia's and moved to Microsoft (and because of that, ended up being fired), where Nokia holds a sit at the Board of Directors with considerable powers, that presents their devices on Nokia held events and uses technologies coming directly from Nokia Technologies.

2 - They won't do Windows Phones now and they won't make them in the future. You don't need to be Nostradamus to figure that out. There is no future for Windows on mobile. Even Microsoft knows that. Which is why they only consider even trying again IF there's a significant shift in the paradigm.
Thing is, that will not happen. If anything, it will just make things worse.

Think about it: people like Rubino claim that win32 isn't the future of Windows and Windows 10 S and Windows Store apps are. At the same time, they say smartphones aren't the future. Now...if the future of Windows is apps...and smartphones are just devices that run apps...how are smartphones not the future?
You can play with form factors but the paradigm isn't changing. And because it isn't, IF the future of Windows is apps (and I don't agree it is, I think the future of Windows is services) then Android stands a better chance of making a shift towards what is today a desktop PC than Windows has to catch up.

All this to say, Nokia will not be making the same mistake twice. And I will play the Nostradamus here ;)

[Drael646464]

2 - They won't do Windows Phones now and they won't make them in the future. You don't need to be Nostradamus to figure that out. There is no future for Windows on mobile. Even Microsoft knows that. Which is why they only consider even trying again IF there's a significant shift in the paradigm.
Thing is, that will not happen. If anything, it will just make things worse.

Of course it'll happen. The market has reached saturation in mature markets and the money well is about to dry up. Everyone is looking for the next things, apple, Samsung, amazon, and MS. They want that adoption phase technology that consumers drool over.

If smartphones were the eternal be all and end all, why would every major company involved in them be making massive investments in future tech?

Think about it: people like Rubino claim that win32 isn't the future of Windows and Windows 10 S and Windows Store apps are. At the same time, they say smartphones aren't the future. Now...if the future of Windows is apps...and smartphones are just devices that run apps...how are smartphones not the future?
You can play with form factors but the paradigm isn't changing. And because it isn't, IF the future of Windows is apps (and I don't agree it is, I think the future of Windows is services) then Android stands a better chance of making a shift towards what is today a desktop PC than Windows has to catch up.

Well "apps" are designed for touch only, and UI for a small screen. The moment the form factor or primary input method changes, a back catalogue of apps becomes less useful than win32s on a phone. It's a limited life modality, that's locked to the specific hardware platform its run on. This would be like claiming that mouse and big screen applications on PC, meant that windows had dominance eternal in technology.

The nature of technology is forever changing. The iPhone itself was invented on the back of a "let's wait for the next thing' strategy after mac/OSX nearly sunk apple.

I can't see what chance android has for catching up with PC. Their development funding model doesn't support the depth of software, their OS isn't designed for it at any level. Far easier to scale down, than scale up. Take away detail, than create detail. Google would have to code everything themselves. And they seem to be making no real attempt at it either.

Although I doubt I have convinced you, of technologies limited life, as someone who seems to believe that slab phones will reign supreme for a long time.

However consider that this market has been around for how long - ten years. Ten years from massive adoption, to saturation. Ten years to shift the balance of power in the OS world, and profit margins away from the desktop. And all from the release of a new form factor, which at the time, had no apps.

Rarely have we gone ten years in the last 100 without the introduction of some paradigm changing piece of tech.

[DJCBS]

Of course it'll happen. The market has reached saturation in mature markets and the money well is about to dry up. Everyone is looking for the next things, apple, Samsung, amazon, and MS. They want that adoption phase technology that consumers drool over.

If smartphones were the eternal be all and end all, why would every major company involved in them be making massive investments in future tech?

It won't.
The market has reached saturation and STILL it doesn't want Windows Phone offerings. Everyone is looking at the "next big thing" but there's one very common thread there: it will NOT run Windows. It will run Android (well, Apple is excluded because Apple doesn't innovate, they only do things other have done first and slap an Apple logo in it).

Well "apps" are designed for touch only, and UI for a small screen. The moment the form factor or primary input method changes, a back catalogue of apps becomes less useful than win32s on a phone. It's a limited life modality, that's locked to the specific hardware platform its run on. This would be like claiming that mouse and big screen applications on PC, meant that windows had dominance eternal in technology.

The nature of technology is forever changing. The iPhone itself was invented on the back of a "let's wait for the next thing' strategy after mac/OSX nearly sunk apple.

I can't see what chance android has for catching up with PC. Their development funding model doesn't support the depth of software, their OS isn't designed for it at any level. Far easier to scale down, than scale up. Take away detail, than create detail. Google would have to code everything themselves. And they seem to be making no real attempt at it either.

Although I doubt I have convinced you, of technologies limited life, as someone who seems to believe that slab phones will reign supreme for a long time.

However consider that this market has been around for how long - ten years. Ten years from massive adoption, to saturation. Ten years to shift the balance of power in the OS world, and profit margins away from the desktop. And all from the release of a new form factor, which at the time, had no apps.

Rarely have we gone ten years in the last 100 without the introduction of some paradigm changing piece of tech.

First of all, you don't seem to understand what an app is.
And app is an application you get from a dedicated OS store. As opposed to a program which is an application you get via a disc, a digital code or directly from the developer.
Traditionally, programs are what run on Windows (.exe, x86, Win32 etc), apps are what run on mobile devices (phones, tablets etc)

So, when they say that "apps are the future", they mean that the paradigm of you buying the programs from wherever you please will go away and you'll be locked into OS "Stores" like the Google Play Store or the Windows Store or whatever Apple calls their store.


With that distinction in mind:

1 - Most apps are actually not designed for touch only and also not for a small screen. If you look for example at Google's Material Design guidelines, they don't prescribe anything for "touch only".
Which is why you can connect a phone to a display and use them with a mouse.

Then there are apps which, of course, are only designed with touch in mind. Things like Instagram, Snapchat etc are NOT meant to be used with a mouse and a keyboard (which most people don't use anymore, anyway). You just need to use the Windows Instagram app on a PC and you'll see how absolutely pointless it is. You might as well open Instagram on a browser and it will be as useful.

2 - Windows doesn't need to leave Win32 programs behind. What makes a Win32 program unusable on a mobile device is its design. If a developer changes the design of the program, you pretty much have that usability problem solved.
Things like Project Centennial are NOT about making sure Windows programs start running on different for factors. They just aim at putting the existing .exe programs in the Windows Store so that Microsoft can rob the developer of 30% of the sale price of the program. If tomorrow Google placed Chrome on the Windows Store, they wouldn't change a single thing about it. You'd be downloading exactly the same installation file that you currently download directly from Google, but it would be coming through the Windows Store. Which means Google would have to submit any update to the Windows Store instead of updating the program directly etc. Cumbersome and pointless.

3 - You completely ignored that personal computing has been around for well over 25 years. It took 10 years for Android to surpass Windows. But it took 30 years for phones to surpass computers. The so called "paradigm shift" from fixed computing to mobile computing took many many decades to happen. It didn't happen with the iPhone nor just in the last 10 years.

The iPhone brought no innovation to the table. What the iPhone offered wasn't new nor revolutionary. Everything in it already existed. Apple just packaged it in a pretty case. Which is what Apple does. They don't innovate, they market things properly. You'll see that clearly when they introduce wireless charging on their phones. We've had it for 5 years, but they'll make it seem like something new and innovative.

4 - And as you pointed out, when the iPhone came out, it didn't have apps. Jobs said it would all be done through the browser. Well, then apps cam in and no one wants to use the browser to do things that can be done via a dedicated app (just look at how clamorously the attempt of Windows Phone to make web-wrappers a thing failed.)
And Android HAS the apps. All that Google needs to do is to make a push for developers to make sure their apps scale well and developers WILL do it. Because unlike Windows developers, Android developers HAVE a reason to make sure their apps work well on any screen.
Google hasn't made that push so far, and that's why Microsoft is trying to rush and attempt to convince developers to stop making Windows programs and start doing proper UWP apps. So far those efforts have failed. And if Google makes that push (and sooner or later, they will), then Microsoft is in big big trouble. And there's no "panorama shift" to help them not be.



And all of this brings me back to the topic we were discussing:
Nokia will NOT be making Windows products (specially not mobile ones) going forward. Because neither the current nor the future market will be based on Windows. It will be based on Android. Microsoft itself knows that, which is why they're all in on having their services on Android. If anything, the next "paradigm shift" will be the inversion of the status quo. Currently you had Google needing Windows to keep Chrome and their services alive. In the near future, you'll likely have the other way around: Microsoft needing Android to keep their Office and other software alive.

And Nokia will already be on the right side of the future of mobile computing.

[anon(50597)]

They're putting their services on other platforms because it makes them a ton of money!
Believe what you want. Android is Android and will be around for a while.
MS is innovating and the next big thing will be coming from them.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

[Timbre70]

Okido... Lets see what's coming SOOOOOOOOOOOOON....

[Drael646464]

It won't.
The market has reached saturation and STILL it doesn't want Windows Phone offerings. Everyone is looking at the "next big thing" but there's one very common thread there: it will NOT run Windows. It will run Android (well, Apple is excluded because Apple doesn't innovate, they only do things other have done first and slap an Apple logo in it).

Yes, there will be a next big thing, and its not far off.

Let's say its AR. Why would AR run android? Google doesn't even have a hybrid OS, certainly not anything suited to AR. The apps are touch only, small screen. Android has literally no advantages in AR. Your assumption is confusing. It would be more likely to be apple, who are working on a secret AR project, and have an OS suited to AR.

Honestly have no idea how anything in android could scale to voice only, VR or AR well. Its a smartphone OS, it does that well, and that alone.

First of all, you don't seem to understand what an app is.
And app is an application you get from a dedicated OS store. As opposed to a program which is an application you get via a disc, a digital code or directly from the developer.
Traditionally, programs are what run on Windows (.exe, x86, Win32 etc), apps are what run on mobile devices (phones, tablets etc)

App is short for application. That's all it means.

So, when they say that "apps are the future", they mean that the paradigm of you buying the programs from wherever you please will go away and you'll be locked into OS "Stores" like the Google Play Store or the Windows Store or whatever Apple calls their store.

You can get android apps, and windows apps from outside the primary stores. Android has several app stores, Xiaomis app store, and amazons app store are examples.

With that distinction in mind:

1 - Most apps are actually not designed for touch only and also not for a small screen. If you look for example at Google's Material Design guidelines, they don't prescribe anything for "touch only".
Which is why you can connect a phone to a display and use them with a mouse.

They are designed for touch, and for small screens. That's just the reality. Yes you can use a mouse, yes you can put them on a big screen. But developers design them for smartphones, and only smartphones. I assume you realise that a typical android app is a terrible experience on a desktop, and does not support AR/VR or voice, because that is clear and obvious.

Then there are apps which, of course, are only designed with touch in mind. Things like Instagram, Snapchat etc are NOT meant to be used with a mouse and a keyboard (which most people don't use anymore, anyway). You just need to use the Windows Instagram app on a PC and you'll see how absolutely pointless it is. You might as well open Instagram on a browser and it will be as useful.

And yet when I did a survey here, 50% of people use UWPs on tablets, laptops and desktops. Most people do use PCs (mouse and keyboard), you are clearly unaware of market statistics. The majority of people use both smartphone and desktop. Smartphone only is primarily popular in poor countries.

2 - Windows doesn't need to leave Win32 programs behind. What makes a Win32 program unusable on a mobile device is its design. If a developer changes the design of the program, you pretty much have that usability problem solved.

Yes and no. You can't use a win32 program on an IoT devices. And most people who code touch friendly apps, go with UWP, there are very few touch friendly win32s.

Things like Project Centennial are NOT about making sure Windows programs start running on different for factors. They just aim at putting the existing .exe programs in the Windows Store so that Microsoft can rob the developer of 30% of the sale price of the program.

Lol.

If tomorrow Google placed Chrome on the Windows Store, they wouldn't change a single thing about it. You'd be downloading exactly the same installation file that you currently download directly from Google, but it would be coming through the Windows Store. Which means Google would have to submit any update to the Windows Store instead of updating the program directly etc. Cumbersome and pointless.

Security isn't pointless.

3 - You completely ignored that personal computing has been around for well over 25 years. It took 10 years for Android to surpass Windows. But it took 30 years for phones to surpass computers. The so called "paradigm shift" from fixed computing to mobile computing took many many decades to happen. It didn't happen with the iPhone nor just in the last 10 years.

Well it didn't happen with the blackberry either did it? I take your point, but that doesn't mean a phone successor with a different FF, would be considered distinct either. It would be an evolution.

The iPhone brought no innovation to the table. What the iPhone offered wasn't new nor revolutionary. Everything in it already existed. Apple just packaged it in a pretty case.

Which is what Apple does. They don't innovate, they market things properly. You'll see that clearly when they introduce wireless charging on their phones. We've had it for 5 years, but they'll make it seem like something new and innovative.

True-ish. They did first touch only phone. It was combinations of differing tech, but they did it well. Steve jobs was the kind of marketing, I don't think current apple really "has it".

And Android HAS the apps. All that Google needs to do is to make a push for developers to make sure their apps scale well and developers WILL do it.

Windows has 16 million applications, all scaled for the desktop. Fat lot of good that's done MS so far, in entering the phone space. What does androids 2.8 million apps count for, when they all have to be changed? Basically nothing. Same as win32s on a smartphone.

Because unlike Windows developers, Android developers HAVE a reason to make sure their apps work well on any screen.

And whats that reason? What consumers have android on big screens? Apps need users. There are no users.

Google hasn't made that push so far, and that's why Microsoft is trying to rush and attempt to convince developers to stop making Windows programs and start doing proper UWP apps. So far those efforts have failed. And if Google makes that push (and sooner or later, they will), then Microsoft is in big big trouble. And there's no "panorama shift" to help them not be.

While I am sure google does have ambitions on the desktop space, its hard to imagine how they will get power user software on their platform. Smartphone users pay 4 bucks, or go free and advertising. The model produces puddle deep software for the most part. Developers need users as I point out, so before anyone is going to code software for some imagined google hybrid OS on the desktop, people will actually need to be buying the devices first. Horse and cart, same old same old problem.

And all of this brings me back to the topic we were discussing:
Nokia will NOT be making Windows products (specially not mobile ones) going forward. Because neither the current nor the future market will be based on Windows. It will be based on Android.

Based on what? What new consumer devices are google releasing in AR or VR? What folding tablet designs do they have? What hybrid OS? To claim android owns the future, we would need some, any evidence its being future proofed, and google seem well behind in that game. As I pointed out developers need users. Google would need to sell a consumer device to create this scaling app market - and like any new device, it would have no apps to suit its form at first. Google would have to build out its user base, build out its platform. It like MS, would be starting from scratch more or less.

The smartphone is soon to be dead. Tiny screen touch only apps will mean nothing pretty shortly. Googles main advantage is its investments in other future like google assistant, google dream, and its diverse portfolio creating cashflow outside of current cash cows.

Actually where I see google taking the prize is the IoT. Even though alexa is currently king, google has some great software tech in machine learning. They would however need to make their platform more secure.

[nate0]

Near as I can tell, Coship cancelled their release of the Moly PCphone due to overwhelming apathy. The Funker W6.0 Pro came out spring of '16 in Spain and the other rebadged PCphone was the Mouse Computer Madosma Q601 that launched summer of '16 in Japan. Both seem to have been short lived.

The Madosma Q601 seems still actively supported except the last FW update it got was from Dec. 2016. However the Vaio and the Lenovo Softbank have continued to get FW updates into 2017. All of these which are Japanese models. The only one that could be remotely compatible in the US haveing a couple GSM LTE bands or 3G bands is the Q601. I was curious to try it so I was able to order one recently and still awaiting it to be delivered from Japan. I almost went for the Vaio but I would probably never been able to get a phone call on it so I went for the Q601.

[RumoredNow]

@NateW good on you. I'll be curious to see what you make of the Madosma. Hope you didn't have to pay too much for it.

I said short lived only meaning in terms of sales. Interesting that it did get firmware, which is more than some large OEMs manage on this platform.

[fatclue_98]

The Madosma Q601 seems still actively supported except the last FW update it got was from Dec. 2016. However the Vaio and the Lenovo Softbank have continued to get FW updates into 2017. All of these which are Japanese models. The only one that could be remotely compatible in the US haveing a couple GSM LTE bands or 3G bands is the Q601. I was curious to try it so I was able to order one recently and still awaiting it to be delivered from Japan. I almost went for the Vaio but I would probably never been able to get a phone call on it so I went for the Q601.

Congrats. I'm curious how the 617 handles Continuum. I take it Band 4 is the only US LTE frequency it handles?

Sent from my HP Elite x3 on mTalk

[nate0]

Considering what it goes for on ebay, and what we would have paid for the Cerulean Moment...I got a sweet deal.

[nate0]

Congrats. I'm curious how the 617 handles Continuum. I take it Band 4 is the only US LTE frequency it handles?

Sent from my HP Elite x3 on mTalk

It has band 2 and 4. I will see what I get out of out it assuming it safely arrives at my home soon.

Edit: I am not certain it does Continuum via USB C. I think it does not, but it can be enabled anyway via software modifcation/Registry (don't quote me though). I will do some research, and maybe pick up a used Microsoft Display/Coninuum dock if needed though. I have been wanting to get one of those anyway to have around.

[nate0]

The Madosma Q601 seems still actively supported except the last FW update it got was from Dec. 2016. However the Vaio and the Lenovo Softbank have continued to get FW updates into 2017. All of these which are Japanese models. The only one that could be remotely compatible in the US haveing a couple GSM LTE bands or 3G bands is the Q601. I was curious to try it so I was able to order one recently and still awaiting it to be delivered from Japan. I almost went for the Vaio but I would probably never been able to get a phone call on it so I went for the Q601.

Gotta vent here. Got this phone today (Q601). Sweet little design I'll say...anyway, used if for maybe 30 min, and the LCD died. Backlight went out...was so furious. I could still make out just barely with a flash light what was on the screen...you know how it goes.

This thing came all the way from Tokyo, and I had no warranty and such and the LCD backlight died before an hour of use. Oh well, lesson learned and hope something like this does not happen again.

[RumoredNow]

@Nate W... Bummer, man. I feel for you.