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10-12-2017 05:29 AM
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  1. islehopper's Avatar
    Already transitioned to Android phone for my entire family, we keep our 950XL'd around for legacy games like Minecraft worlds saved locally.

    With the announcement of Groove closing, it's a sign I shouldn't spend any more money on MS ecosystem, only to have them abandone us again and again...Lumia's, Band, Windows Mobile, Groove, GroupMe, Home Automation partners (Insteon and Smarthings)...etc.
    Yep, WinPhone7, Nokia800, 1520, then 950XL... Band 1, Band2... Groove with 10 free songs per month annual subscription... and Skype with all bells and whistles. Love SP4 (had Surface 1) and not planning to upgrade xbox one with Kinect anytime soon.

    Continuum, UWP, and disintegrating ecosystem just confirms my family's switch to Spotify Family Plan a year ago, my switch to a Fenix 5x, and my kid and wife's switch to iPhone all wise decisions. Love my 950xl - and most of the apps I need are still alive but eventually I would guess developers will abandon the platform. If Garmin jumps ship then I will follow. No idea where I'll land but it won't be another Microsoft boondoggle. Microsoft's bogus "scroogled" and "iPhone users are beta testers" campaigns were embarrassing in real time and just pathetic in hindsight. Cheers from Taipei
    10-03-2017 09:18 PM
  2. raheem ross's Avatar
    I haven't lost faith in windows phones at all, my first actual smartphone was a Nokia Lumia 521 then after that was hooked. And I like how things are goin I've upgraded from there to 925-1020 and now am happy with my 1520 with a regular store bought W10 ran pc, and the insider program is making me happy as well, more mainstream apps are behaving like other phones as well so any platform cultist are left silent on the "yall don't got no apps" topic. And to put out there I'm actually sad to see groove music get shut down soon, it really good doesn't crash and has a broad music selection to my liking. I actually don't want to convert to Spotify due to to multiple crashes / I can't find what/ and a other random bugs. Groove was smooth and it felt like I had a phone that with it's own social/ personal apps that set me from the rest of the other platforms out there. That's actually one the reasons I went to getting a windows phone it's it own thing not a carbon copy with a different body when finished. But I'm not loosing faith windows I feel like y'all are giving up way too easy.
    Last edited by raheem ross; 10-03-2017 at 09:36 PM. Reason: i can't spell
    10-03-2017 09:29 PM
  3. SimonMelb's Avatar
    Loosing faith? It's dead. I have a Idol 4S and love it, but I know it's dead now.
    There is NO NEW HARDWARE this year, and you think people shouldn't be losing faith? Microsoft dropping the only decent music streaming app for the phone and you think people shouldn't be losing faith? A near empty app store and people shouldn't be losing faith? Time to wake up and see it's over. There will be no future hardware released for W10M, if that's not dead I don't know what is.
    Jason Angle likes this.
    10-03-2017 09:54 PM
  4. raycpl's Avatar
    I think people are just overreacting. Chill out guys.
    Groove was not gaining traction, practically no one but windows mobile users knew about the service. Groove's fate is intertwined with that of WM10. Disappointing yes, but that does not mean "oh! MS is dead, Windows is dead!"
    For those that compare a Mac to a Windows PC, please always compare equal or equivalent specs. You don't buy a $200 laptop or el-cheapo tablet and expect it to perform as well as a $1000+ Mac or $700 iPad. No OS on earth will perform favorably with such a hardware disadvantage. At least you can get a $200 PC, that price point has actually opened the world to computing we do today. Heck, I even develop Android apps on my 'cheap' PC...
    MS is trying to streamline their focus - get rid of very weak ventures and bolster the mid and strong ones. Whether or not this is a good idea, time will tell.
    This
    Voice of calm


    ... !
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    10-03-2017 10:13 PM
  5. Jason Angle's Avatar
    Agreed, a bit over reacting in some cases, as I said on the first page, even if I switch on the mobile front, still hanging onto Office365, Outlook.com, and Skype (this one till subscription runs out). Already made the move, but I am cheap so found a cheap iPhone 7+ on Swappa just in case I regret it.

    To play the other side, it isn't just about Groove folks, it is about Microsoft pushing Groove with four free months of service for renewing, three weeks ago. How are you going to offer a service you very well know you are cutting for a month longer than you plan to let it live? Groove still works is also being declared, but as a media player only it does not compare to many other options. Spotify really? Yeah, biggest deal currently, but Pandora has UWP apps already? Seriously? Reward developers that support the new moves. So I am not ditching anything but a 950 XL at this point, the Surface Pro is safe (with the baked in iPhone linking just makes it better). My wife's 950 was replaced not even a month ago, and her PC went when she tried the iPad. Still cannot operate with an iPad, not even in the same realm for productivity, so the SP will go in the bag instead of the Continuum equipment. That being said, I will be weighing the next round of hardware purchases before moving to another Microsoft device. Very much wanted a unified experience across all devices, like Core OS is claiming. Considering Microsoft's attitude towards the consumer base though, going to have to give it some time before I decide if they can be trusted with the rug they have me standing on.
    10-03-2017 10:26 PM
  6. gamo62's Avatar
    I think that once the iPhone X hots, I'll finally make the move. Been with MS/Nokia since Symbian. At least I know that with iPhone, it'll be supported more than 2 years. And the resale value Is excellent. I will get the X. 4k and HD Blue ray? It's a no brainer. But I am done with mobile. Fool me once...
    10-04-2017 12:03 AM
  7. dicks-webos's Avatar
    Now with Groove gone, I think MS is slowly pulling out of consumer business.
    10-04-2017 12:15 AM
  8. covfefe's Avatar
    I ordered two 950XL at launch with free docks. Never received the docks. After numerous attempts at trying to get the docks, just silence. Microsoft is committing fraud.

    Oh and HSBC refused to reverse the transaction even though I did not receive what I ordered. But we already know HSBC is a fradulent company.
    10-04-2017 02:15 AM
  9. William Morton1's Avatar
    I love and use everything made by Microsoft but Windows 10 Mobile is dying. If a Surface Phone is released I'm definitely buying it because I can enjoy the features I've always wanted out of a mobile device, and that's full Windows 10 on a mobile device.
    10-04-2017 02:20 AM
  10. ad47uk's Avatar
    I have never been a MS fan, the only thing I use that is produced by M<S is windows and that is only because it have the software and hardware I need.

    I have never had a windows phone, no X-box, but I have used them, the only bit of MS hardware I had was a Keyboard many years ago.
    I do not even have a MS account.

    So nope, I had no faith to lose.
    10-04-2017 02:52 AM
  11. Steve78UK's Avatar
    I've completely removed Windows from my house. It's been a gradual process, but my personal equipment is an iMac, MacBook Pro 13", iPhone 7 (soon to be X) & iPad Pro 10.5". Everything works flawlessly together as you would expect and I am completely astonished at how good the iPad Pro is, especially now iOS 11 is available.

    Microsoft do not stand a chance with trying to compete with this kind of user experience, because Microsoft don't understand how we want to use our devices in the modern world. They never understood it! The only reliance I have on Microsoft is Office 365 which is exceptional and obviously works perfectly across my Macs & iOS devices. It must hurt someone within Microsoft to see how much better the Microsoft software experience is on Apple products.

    Since the iPhone was released, people have seen how intuitive and pleasant a computing experience can be, particularly the mobile experience which should be the #1 focus for any tech company. Obviously Android is equally as good in many areas as iOS but iOS 11 takes things to a new level and Microsoft are so far behind it's embarrassing.

    So yes, from a consumer perspective, Microsoft are in serious trouble as no one really wants or needs their offerings. The home user has been transitioning to tablets and phones as their primary devices for several years now & Office 365 is their only stand-out product which just so happens to be cross-platform and doesn't require the user to own a Windows PC to get the best experience.

    The only people who will disagree with what I've said above will be the hardened Microsoft fanatics. But no one's been paying attention to them for over 8 years, not even Microsoft.
    10-04-2017 03:44 AM
  12. psykoaussie's Avatar
    I'm also using a 950XL as my phone. I have an Xbox 360, and Xbox One, as well as an original Xbox, and I'm looking at getting the Xbox One X next year. I use Windows 10 on my main PC, and laptop. I have an Office 365 Home subscription which I share with my family, an Xbox Live account tied to the first Hotmail account I opened several years ago, and I have bought a couple of Movies, as well as various apps through the Windows/Microsoft Store. I'd love to have a Surface, but my budget doesn't stretch that far.

    I'm dropping my 950XL and replacing it with an Android phone when my contract comes up for renewal early next year. I may go for one of the Samsung phones (I have an old Galaxy S4 which I use for some hobby related stuff, as well as a Galaxy Tab 4 I got as a Christmas bonus from work two years ago, so I know that Samsung phones are quite good).

    I can't see myself getting rid of Office any time soon. I haven't been able to find a suitable email client replacement for Outlook (which became a replacement for Thunderbird when it went into "retirement"), and most of the organisations or government departments around here prefer Office over anything else.

    Console wise, I'm not fond of the Playstation, not since Sony dropped the backward compatibility in the PS3 (Haven't touched a PS since the PS2). Also, with the arrival of the Final Fantasy games on the Xbox, the only reason I would buy a PS4 would be for Gran Turismo, and that isn't a compelling enough reason to buy one, so I will stick with the Xbox instead. I also like the Xbox PlayAnywhere, which allowed me to get Forza Horizon 3 for both my PC and Xbox, and I've played it on both. I'm going to do the same with Forza 7 shortly.

    For music, movies, and ebooks, I prefer the hard copy, rather than the digital version. I've never bough an ebook, and the only ebooks I have are free books provided by Microsoft through MS Press. The only movies/tv shows I've bought through the store are Warcraft, and Dragonball Z Season 9. Everything else is an actual DVD. Music is all CDs, which I then rip to mp3 and play through foobar on my PC, or a selection of songs that I've uploaded to OneDrive, which I play on my phone through the Groove app.

    So, apart from the phone, which is effectively a dead end, the rest of my MS services I can continue using for the foreseeable future, as they are fairly popular services, though given Microsoft's "twitchy trigger finger", anything is at risk...
    10-04-2017 03:58 AM
  13. Daniel Stevenson Sutton's Avatar
    So on the mobile front I have switched to IOS. This was driven by my 950 falling from a great height and my fiance having a spare iPhone 6 around the house. However I have chosen to remain with IOS, even picking up an iPad Mini 4 to sling in my satchel day to day.

    I think Microsoft will have to do a lot in terms of building relationships with app services to win me back to a mobile platform. Day to day use Windows Phone 10 is nice, but the lack of support from companion apps for products and services take away from that. For example: No city mapper, no native support for the bulk of smart home products etc.

    HOWEVER

    I am a long way off giving up on Microsoft. Even on my IOS devices I predominantly use Microsoft services, Outlook instead of the built in mail, Cortana, flow and Groove. My main day to day machine is a SF4, I also have a well spec'ed lenovo thinkpad for work and a custom built workhorse machine, all running Windows 10, none of them ever giving me hassle. In fact I would say I enjoy using them much of the time

    So not given up on Microsoft, however I do wish they had a better eye for the consumer experience not just the enterprise one.
    Polychrome likes this.
    10-04-2017 04:48 AM
  14. Daniel Stevenson Sutton's Avatar
    I would argue its not they do not understand but rather the complications of trying to build out the experience to run not only on their own premium machines, but everything from a £2000 top end gaming machine to the custom build picked up from a PC shop on the highstreet for £200

    Apple have it easy in this regard. They control the whole eco-system. It cuts down consumer choice but gives them the ability to curate the experience far better
    10-04-2017 04:51 AM
  15. Kimmo Toivanen's Avatar
    TL;DR: Make decisions not based on revenge but requirements.

    It is interesting how black-and-white people sometimes appear to be. Maybe in US it is related to politics - either you are with us or you are against us. Or maybe we simply project our frustration to one little sector to whole industry. Escalate an issue beyond all reasoning. F with them, I'll take my money (0.00000001% from their profit) elsewhere and really teach them a lesson.

    If one changes a car, is it mandatory to change suit, apartment, work and wife? If one changes from Windows phone to Android or iPhone or from Groove to Spotify, why is it then mandatory to change Windows PCs to Linux or Mac, XBOX to PS4 or Switch, MS Office to Libre Office or something web based? (note: don't throw good Windows PCs away, send them to me ;) )

    Our household has all Windows PCs (because they work), all Android phones (because they work + Pokemon Go) and no Apple devices (because we do not need them + price is too high for what they deliver). We use Google search, Chrome and Firefox, Netflix, Youtube, FB etc. (because they work), MS Office (because LO couldn't handle ODB data to find malfunctioning EGR valve and it looks better too). We don't require integration between all devices.


    My no-guarantee advice: whatever you buy, think of the money as gone. It will not make your life great. You will not receive personal thank you -letter or friendly tweet from CEO (not even from lower management or PR). Support may end any day. Updates may never come, and if they come, they spoil something else. Future is unknown. You can drop it and brake it the next day. Gone, for good :D
    10-04-2017 05:19 AM
  16. darvisha's Avatar
    I bet high on Microsoft ecosystem and invested resources on the system, I had several windows phones, and I enjoyed the concept and always found innovative ways to overcome shortcomings. When Microsoft realized the ecosystem cannot become comparable in apps and decided to enable android apps on the phone, I was so happy and was thinking the ecosystem is heading the right direction. Later, with removing that option, and emphasizing on UWP, and so many strategic mistakes in their direction, I am losing my faith and getting ready to jump ship. I already switched to iPhone and realized it is like living in a golden cage but at least the experience is reliable, and the company is not going to do 180 turns. the consistency and making a persistent and stable ecosystem is important and Microsoft recently is focused on money only and not service. They are shutting down groove music without a better service in place. They lack road map and they are losing their big picture of the consumer world. If they want to bet on corporate side, they will lose the entire war as government and organizations are betting on smart phones as well. The future is a cloud based computing with tablets and smartphones as the consumer side device. Microsoft may decided to be the cloud side provider and not going for consumer side, the road IBM took several years ago. It is going to be in Microsoft engineers and strategic planners to set out the direction, but as a consumer, I have the right to miss their innovative devices and the ones that they killed before seeing the light of the day like their journal.
    10-04-2017 06:24 AM
  17. Serpentbane's Avatar
    Well, for me it's about what mindset I believe in. Yes, MS missed the ship, and chose to jump into the ocean and began swimming. After a while, they reached a few islands and borrowed some canoes, rowing boats, and at last a boat with a 4BHP outboard engine.

    But after a long while, they were only a few miles from the shore while the ship were lost in the horizon.

    MS had to choose. On the next island there could be a cabin cruiser, or there could be nothing. Back at the shipyard next to the dock another ship was rumored to be under construction, a little smaller, nobody knew much about it and not when it was supposed to be finished either. However, of the rumors were true the ship was very promising.

    MS decided to turn around and wait for the other ship. Going after a huge ship in open waters with a small boat is risky at best. Possible for sure. But they decided against it at last.

    Now, on the way out MS picked up a couple of passengers. The kind that don’t like luxury cruisers with all their polished finishes and possibilities, but rather liked the smaller but more exciting boats MS had. Now, a few of those fell off as MS switched boats, even if the new boats was better. Some willingly jumped on the next boat. People that knew that the next island would always hide something better.

    Those people did not want to go back and sit at the docks and wait. They wanted to keep going, and then just hitch hike with the new ship if it ever came along. It would catch up with them for sure. But there they were, there we were, here we are, standing on the docks.

    Now, we are not allowed in at the shipyard. However, just looking at it from the docks we see enough to know that they are working on something.

    And now it’s all about choices. We could jump on an airplane and catch up with the first ship. Should be easy enough, a little pricy, but hey. We’re going on a luxury cruise, yes?

    No. The cruise was boring in the first place, catching up with it now changes nothing.

    I don’t see why I would do that as long as I see activity over at the shipyard, and I’m still having fun playing with my 4BHP boat outside the docks. And I’m going to do so until the shipyard is either silent or a new ship is launched.

    Those of you who choses to leave, don’t worry. If the rumors about the new ship is true, it will catch up with the first ship. And you could always jump ship when it does. We’ll pick you up.
    aximtreo and Polychrome like this.
    10-04-2017 06:38 AM
  18. amnesiality's Avatar
    Microsoft is the new IBM. All it takes is some great server software from Google or Apple and a generation of kids that have never seen Windows, for Microsoft to loose on the Business front as well...
    This is already happening. Basically all hot startups (Discord, Slack, Dropbox, CloudFlare, just to name a few) are using G Suite, not O365. And if Nadella thinks Google won't try to beat them in the cloud business, he's stupid. Young(er) generations growing up without MS is a huge problem for the company. They're not only losing market share, they're also losing mind share.
    10-04-2017 06:39 AM
  19. SimonMelb's Avatar
    Ummm, you do know Pandora has shut up shop in most countries over the last few weeks right? Might work in the states but that's not helping much.
    10-04-2017 06:55 AM
  20. Drewidian's Avatar
    Yes. For me it is official. I'm no longer recommending or being exclusive to the Microsoft Ecosystem. I was probably the biggest enthusiast and the ONLY one at my office. I was pushing for Surface devices including HUB, phones, services and other devices such as HoloLens and now, I'm pretty much done with this. I won't recommend the ecosystem to my friends or family and while I am getting an Xbox Scorpio, I'm probably going to pick up a PS4 Pro as well for some of the exclusive games they have. It's sad, but continuous mismanagement over the years has made me loose faith in their ability to lead and support long term their services. Office 365 is probably as far as I'll go for recommendations for our business along with Windows 10, but as for the rest... I think that is done for me and I don't think they can win me back.
    10-04-2017 06:57 AM
  21. Ismail Mohd's Avatar
    I don't understand what Nadella is doing. In my opinion he should be removed as CEO of Microsoft. Microsoft should have 2 areas of focus: 1 for consumer and other for enterprise. Consumer should be led by Joe Belfiore and I believe his skill set fits well in this area. Whereas, for enterprise Terry Myerson would be a great fit. Let me know your thoughts.
    aximtreo likes this.
    10-04-2017 07:49 AM
  22. rmark66's Avatar
    It will take MS at least two years to get AndromedaOS and CShell finished and out for non-mobile Windows 10 computers and Xbox. Then they will likely finally start on mobile and trying to get more parts of Win 10 on mobile (I don't think Win32 will be part of it). By then UWP will have a complete API set (finally) and PWA's will be fully supported by the Microsoft store, Windows 10 and Edge.

    MS's only hope in mobile at that point is that AndromedaOS and CShell work great and offer Continuum and DPI much better than today. They will need a complete mobile ecosystem (which makes Groove music pass discontinuing very disappointing). By then Snapdragon processors and even low end Intel processors will be able to do even more for mobile devices including smartphones.

    Will Cortana survive with its own interface until then? Or will Cortana just be some AI APIs that Azure and Bing make use of in the background? Will Bing survive if Microsoft doesn't keep enough computers in the market for consumers? Chomebooks will never supply Bing with significant market share.

    By then will Google and Apple have a compelling SMB and Enterprise solution?

    Microsoft has been so commented to the short term they risk truly being irrelevant even to businesses if they do not attract apps and developers to where they are going with Windows (UWP, Andromeda, CShell, Microsoft Store, Azure).
    10-04-2017 09:01 AM
  23. Aardappelboom's Avatar
    I loved Groove, had a pass since the early days but...all signs always pointed to the one Windows vision and if they are going to make other products, both in mobile or AR/VR they need high profiled apps and services. If that means canceling their own services I kind of get it, movies and tv are the same. If they cancel that but get all high profiled streaming apps in their eco-system then they have a bigger chance of ever getting it right for consumers.

    I never invest emotionally in a company though, Allthough Microsoft still has better products i.m.o. :D
    10-04-2017 09:44 AM
  24. anon(8547461)'s Avatar
    Yes. I believe the writing is on the wall and MS is moving away from consumer products and will focus more of its energies on the enterprise end. I’d already given up on Windows Mobile over a year ago and went to the iPhone, an experience I’ve been very pleased with, and next year I will transition to Mac for my personal computing.

    Sadly with the closing of Groove I think it’s only a matter of time before the Movies & TV app goes the way of the dodo, and thus a decent sized library I grew through the app. Fortunately I was already toying with grabbing an AppleTV which I did last week following the announcement of 4K support. I will continue to support XBox simply because it’s a great console and I have a vast library there, so in the end it will only be a partial divorce, or a divorce with joint custody rights for the kid (the Xbox).

    As for my family, my daughters are fairly OS agnostic so whether they had a PC or Mac I really don’t think they would care either way, and the wife will probably join me in the jump to Mac.
    10-04-2017 10:54 AM
  25. lbp775's Avatar
    The two things keeping me from moving to another mobile OS was the Groove app coupled with music pass and the Windows UI. Now all I have is the UI. Unless Spotify can get their app to operate as good as the Groove app, I will most likely move on reluctantly. This is after I had tried to use Android and iOs earlier this year when I broke my L950. I didn't like it so I bought another used L950. I will however continue to use Windows 10 on PC's.
    anon(10324754) likes this.
    10-04-2017 11:11 AM
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