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06-07-2018 01:31 AM
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  1. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Ok, so the hype war for the foldable market is just beginning, but it seems Microsoft's horse has been taken out of the stalls and shot in the head by the press before the race has started:

    https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAxzDMH?m=en-gb&ocid=News

    So, how will a foldable tablet compete, in hype terms, against a bunch of foldable tablets that are also set to be great phones? I have a feeling that Microsoft's attempt will be seen as half the device that the others are.

    Do we think Microsoft might do better if they include a great phone experience as well? Or can they just compete as a foldable tablet? Or... is the not-Phone concept a dead end for Microsoft?
    05-21-2018 07:43 AM
  2. BajanSaint69's Avatar
    You might want to see the device at least before you start writing its obituary
    SolitarySnail and xandros9 like this.
    05-21-2018 08:28 AM
  3. AndyCalling's Avatar
    I might, but the hype war starts way before the release and a loss at the hype stage is no small thing for a new concept device. Are you sure the press, and their audience, will be as understanding? If you can't sell the concept, the device itself hardly matters.
    05-21-2018 07:31 PM
  4. darrell reimer's Avatar
    So these are the 'Top 5' upcoming foldable devices...and Microsoft is not on the list...

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/techa...DMH?li=AAggpOk
    azilgath likes this.
    05-21-2018 11:17 PM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I personally don't see a need for any foldable tablet. That is a niche product that seems to fulfill an imaginary need that doesn't exist. I really am skeptical regarding demand for such a device, no matter what OS it runs or which company manufactures it.
    05-22-2018 03:14 AM
  6. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    I personally don't see a need for any foldable tablet. That is a niche product that seems to fulfill an imaginary need that doesn't exist. I really am skeptical regarding demand for such a device, no matter what OS it runs or which company manufactures it.
    I totally agree. This is a device that is not needed by very many people, if any. It will not take the place of a smartphone. The whole idea seems forced.
    05-22-2018 05:07 AM
  7. tgp's Avatar
    That is a niche product that seems to fulfill an imaginary need that doesn't exist.
    This is called "A solution looking for a problem!" Ha!
    05-22-2018 07:11 AM
  8. DavidBS1989's Avatar
    But, finally, the Andrómeda Project is or not is a Surface Phone? I'm lost between rumors and patents, what we know about the device MS is developing?
    05-22-2018 09:28 AM
  9. techiez's Avatar
    Ok, so the hype war for the foldable market is just beginning, but it seems Microsoft's horse has been taken out of the stalls and shot in the head by the press before the race has started:

    https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAxzDMH?m=en-gb&ocid=News

    So, how will a foldable tablet compete, in hype terms, against a bunch of foldable tablets that are also set to be great phones? I have a feeling that Microsoft's attempt will be seen as half the device that the others are.

    Do we think Microsoft might do better if they include a great phone experience as well? Or can they just compete as a foldable tablet? Or... is the not-Phone concept a dead end for Microsoft?

    Well I dont think the USP of this not phone is being foldable, it will have a niche use case so the hardware will have to be supported by adequate software, in fact if and when other OEM vendors bring the foldable phones, it might help MS, for example if a Galaxy X or Xnote foldable is released with a price tag of 1500-2000$ then ppl will not be shocked at the 2000-2500 $ price tag of Surface Not-Phone.
    a5cent likes this.
    05-22-2018 10:50 AM
  10. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Well I dont think the USP of this not phone is being foldable, it will have a niche use case so the hardware will have to be supported by adequate software, in fact if and when other OEM vendors bring the foldable phones, it might help MS, for example if a Galaxy X or Xnote foldable is released with a price tag of 1500-2000$ then ppl will not be shocked at the 2000-2500 $ price tag of Surface Not-Phone.
    But, the product produced by other OEMs will be a phone that folds. The key word is "phone". MS will just have a foldable device that is not a phone, forcing people to still carry two devices, when, for most, a phone will do everything they need. I can see paying $1000 or more for a foldable phone backed by a huge app ecosystem. I can't see paying more than that for what's most likely going to be a foldable tablet connected to a pretty poor app ecosystem. Also, MS has a huge amount of work to do on W10 in order to make it completely tablet friendly.
    05-22-2018 11:40 AM
  11. SolitarySnail's Avatar
    Well I dont think the USP of this not phone is being foldable, it will have a niche use case so the hardware will have to be supported by adequate software, in fact if and when other OEM vendors bring the foldable phones, it might help MS, for example if a Galaxy X or Xnote foldable is released with a price tag of 1500-2000$ then ppl will not be shocked at the 2000-2500 $ price tag of Surface Not-Phone.
    In all honesty, I don't think anyone with a brain would buy a phone for that amount, especially not if it were Microsoft. We were burned by MS time and time again, so there's really no reason to throw 2k down the drain for the same type of deal. Don't get me wrong, I'd love another Microsoft (not!) phone, but not at that price tag. And, for something that goes obsolete in a year and a half, 2k is a lot to pay.
    mtf1380 and Bloobed like this.
    05-22-2018 12:07 PM
  12. techiez's Avatar
    But, the product produced by other OEMs will be a phone that folds. The key word is "phone". MS will just have a foldable device that is not a phone, forcing people to still carry two devices, when, for most, a phone will do everything they need. I can see paying $1000 or more for a foldable phone backed by a huge app ecosystem. I can't see paying more than that for what's most likely going to be a foldable tablet connected to a pretty poor app ecosystem. Also, MS has a huge amount of work to do on W10 in order to make it completely tablet friendly.
    In all honesty, I don't think anyone with a brain would buy a phone for that amount, especially not if it were Microsoft. We were burned by MS time and time again, so there's really no reason to throw 2k down the drain for the same type of deal. Don't get me wrong, I'd love another Microsoft (not!) phone, but not at that price tag. And, for something that goes obsolete in a year and a half, 2k is a lot to pay.
    Well both of you are correct, and thats why I think MS is not targeting consumers with this device, this device is totally gonna be something to carry around along with a phone, and will not replace it. Just like the surface studio was not for everyone wanting a desktop, this would be something similar, and also one of the reasons of its delay is that windows is not yet there. May be by the time it is there there wont be any use case anymore and they may drop the whole thing.
    Because well to start with my personal opinion is there's not much surprise MS could bring to the table, ofcourse tech sites love to throw around the word called category creation to keep the readership up, so waiting to be surprised. But not holding my breath for another phone, have moved onto Android already and reasonable happy.
    a5cent likes this.
    05-23-2018 06:47 AM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    Do we think Microsoft might do better if they include a great phone experience as well? Or can they just compete as a foldable tablet? Or... is the not-Phone concept a dead end for Microsoft?
    What do you mean by "great phone experience" and "not-phone"?

    AFAIK its highly likely that MS' foldable device will allow users to make phone calls. If that's true then it WILL act as a phone!

    It just won't be MARKETED as one, because most people equate phone with smartphone and that term (for most people) raises expectations which MS' foldable device can't fulfill (because app-gap).

    My impression is that you're thinking of MS' foldable device primarily as a W10 tablet and expecting it to provide that sort of experience. I think that is an incomplete expectation. When unfolded that may be true, but when folded you should expect an experience very similar to what we had with W10M. If that is what you'd call a "great phone experience", then you'll get that.

    While this will allow you to check e-mails as you would with any other smartphone (at least when folded), that's not the reason anybody would purchase this. Any smartphone can do that. The reason to purchase this is because it can run Win32 software. That is its primary ability, and that defines what you can do with it. That the device is foldable and portable is secondary to that, as it simply makes it possible to do those things in more places while on-the-go.

    Android and iOS tablets are essentially the same thing as Android and iOS smartphones. They all run the same consumerized mobile OS with access to the same mobile app stores. That's what the article you linked to was about. MS' device, despite also being foldable, is not in that category as it won't run a consumerized mobile OS.

    If the article mentioned MS' device, it would have to be clear that:
    - it is doing so based only on the secondary trait that it's also foldable
    - it is intended for different tasks
    - it won't run a consumerized mobile OS like all the others, nor run the apps typically associated with those OSes
    Without making that distinction very clear, mentioning MS' foldable device in that context would likely be detrimental, as it would cause people to associate MS' foldable device with smartphones, which MS simply can't afford.

    I agree with techiez. If MS pitches this device to consumers at all, that effort will likely be limited to students. It will primarily be pitched to corporations who need portable devices that can run Win32 software for their employees. In that sense I'm not sure hype is really that important, as corporations aren't hype-driven in the way consumers are.
    05-24-2018 07:05 AM
  14. mtf1380's Avatar
    I too believe that it is not going to be marketed/introduced as a phone, but as an MFD (@a5cent 's acronym: 'Mobile Folding Device'), because EVERYONE has declared MS phone as DEAD...so to introduce it as anything that relates to anything 'focusing' on a Smartphone would be like trying to raise the dead (literally:). BUT! as a two-fer (tablet & a mobile device) I think is the way it will be introduced...just like the Surface Pro was accepted as as a mobile Desktop/notebook/tablet replacement device, I believe the MDF will be marketed (and eventually accepted) as a miniature-desktop/tablet/phone/whiteboard/gaming (maybe some V/R capabilities) device. NOT a fade nor a compromise, but as a bonifide sustitute replacement to a number of devices (at least two), when out-and-about for business, school or play.
    05-24-2018 11:15 AM
  15. mwright53's Avatar
    D.o.a.
    azilgath likes this.
    05-30-2018 10:01 AM
  16. neilbey's Avatar
    I think Samsung will at least release theirs first. They've got the chops to customize android for that form factor.

    I think Apple will take a bit longer for theirs: they don't rush anything to market, and most likely, they are going to want to differentiate this kind of device from a MacOS device (as they like to keep IOS and MacOS as separate as possible so as to prevent one line cannabalizing the other). They've also got a history of waiting for competitors devices to hash out where the market is starting to head and then using that as a springboard.They've got to figure out a use case for this kind of device that doesn't hurt sales of their bread-and-butter traditional iPhone form factor or their Mac line. I imagine they'd bring this out as an eventual iPad replacement (think iPad mini to iPad pro in one device)

    As for MS. I agree with some posters here that they are going to market their device as a not-phone. They're definitely going to push this as a productivity enterprise-level device (which makes the lack of consumer-y apps when compared to android and IOS less of an issue). I don't think they will have their device out before Samsung releases their take on the foldable device; I do think they will release it before Apple does anything. I think the device will be better though-out than Samsung's though.
    05-30-2018 10:01 AM
  17. justjun555's Avatar
    according to Daniel rubino Microsoft's foldable phone is a dual screen device possibly without flexible display.
    Samsung might be first one to launch foldable phone with true flexible display.
    other companies like LG,huawai are also working on it.
    apple as always will be late entry here.
    05-30-2018 10:26 AM
  18. treiz's Avatar
    "Surface not-Phone already losing the hype war?"
    Rando tech blog click bait listicle fails to mention my choice, the sky is now falling. >.>b
    .
    Hype war doesn't begin until there is actually a product to get hyped over. Until that point it's just click bait.
    .
    As for Microsoft's rumored Folding Surface tablet that also makes calls, I'll be first in line and happily pay prices in line with other surface devices. Anything to get rid of this Android crap phone I have now, plus it will allow me to replace two devices with one. I fail to see the downside and there's certainly room in the market for a new category with smart phone and tablet spaces both experiencing low consumer enthusiasm.
    Burhan Eyimaya likes this.
    05-30-2018 10:45 AM
  19. wpcautobot's Avatar
    I'm excited for it, but not under any circumstances should they rush the hardware if the software isn't ready. Been there to many times in the past. And no I don't mean apps but the OS... Hopefully PWA will be even more available by then
    05-30-2018 10:54 AM
  20. Hirox K's Avatar
    tbh, 2-screen (or foldable) or not doesn't really matter. OS matters.

    What I normally do on an Android :
    * Email, Calendar.
    * Weather, News, Stock
    * Messenger / Whatsapp to contact with family or friends overseas.
    * Map when I travel.
    * OneNote, Todo.
    * Browser.
    * Enpass.
    * Some games.

    I've migrated to apps or services that are also available on Win10 after I started using one. I won't miss Android if I switch to a small screen Win10 device.

    I know I won't be running Adobe, VisualStudio, SVN or Unreal on these small screen ARM devices but still,
    * OneDrive on Demand.
    * Surface Pen for draft, note taking during meeting.
    * Light Photoshop.
    * Light programming.
    * XPA to continue my Xbox game session.
    * Games that support Xbox Live == Cloud Save (I value my game lib and data).
    * Win10 PC integration.
    will be there.

    And as a programmer, able to push one code to IOT, Win10 (including S and ARM), AR, MR, Xbox is a life saver, cross device support expands what you can do as a programmer.
    Sharing code between server side and client side is also a nice feature.

    ps: MS is actually good at supporting different type of devices and machines. BC is MS's strong point (Apple's weak point).
    Last edited by Hirox K; 05-30-2018 at 11:45 AM.
    mtf1380 likes this.
    05-30-2018 11:13 AM
  21. mtf1380's Avatar
    I get the feeling that this currently mythical mobile folding device will not be available until 5G is readily available in major cities (mid-2019); but, hopefully will be introduced at MS's Future Decoded 2018 event in London, this October.
    05-30-2018 11:22 AM
  22. Peter Rokeby's Avatar
    A modern phone is a computer but modern computers are not phones. Why not? What prevents an LTE equipped computer from making voice calls or directly working with SMS? Pardon my ignorance but this seems like a simple problem to fix.
    05-30-2018 11:58 AM
  23. shaunydub's Avatar
    Standard MS strategy to think of something amazing, let it stall and lose the market to other companies.
    As much as I want it to be amazing and own the sector I have no faith in MS now.
    I for one won't invest In another MS device until at least 3rd gen version or I see significant success, I have been stung too many times as an early adopter and supporter.
    azilgath likes this.
    05-30-2018 01:06 PM
  24. Gregory Sauter's Avatar
    Whatever. I'm gripping my 950XL tightly until it either dies or there's a new Microsoft solution. So, please bring on Andromeda, Microsoft. Who cares what Apple and Android do? I've never used an Android device, and the last Apple product I used was an Apple II, which was probably gone before most readers were born.
    mtf1380 and DeeDee N like this.
    05-30-2018 02:00 PM
  25. pavvento's Avatar
    It doesn't matter when it's released, what matters is what is released. Apple and especially Samsung have proven you don't need to be first. I'd rather Microsoft be a year behind and release a stellar product, then be first and release a half baked product, or a product that is filled with hypothetical potential.
    mtf1380 and Mclarenchris like this.
    05-30-2018 03:55 PM
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