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10-30-2012 03:27 PM
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  1. aubreyq's Avatar
    on a related note, what is easier to do: Walk someone over the phone through a series of nested menus, or configure a start screen and tell them to click on the big button labeled xxxxxxx?
    +10000000000000000
    10-26-2012 08:37 AM
  2. sconrad308's Avatar
    A U.K. design team recruited 14 Windows users and subjected them to the new Windows 8 interface. Apparently none of them cottoned to it immediately.

    Foolproof's relatively small number of testers made several observations, including:
    • The user interface was "fresh and attractive," but by the end of the session, none of them "felt confident using the new interface."
    • They were confused on how to open Internet Explorer.
    • They quickly became confused by e-mails, responding that they didn't realize that text fields were editable.
    • The lack of the tray on the bottom of the screen caused some to feel like they lost apps when switching from one to another.

    So basically these people can't see the big icon with a big E with the words Internet explorer on it.

    Source
    10-26-2012 09:03 AM
  3. sconrad308's Avatar
    A U.K. design team recruited 14 Windows users and subjected them to the new Windows 8 interface. Apparently none of them cottoned to it immediately.

    Foolproof's relatively small number of testers made several observations, including:
    The user interface was "fresh and attractive," but by the end of the session, none of them "felt confident using the new interface."
    They were confused on how to open Internet Explorer.
    They quickly became confused by e-mails, responding that they didn't realize that text fields were editable.
    The lack of the tray on the bottom of the screen caused some to feel like they lost apps when switching from one to another.

    So basically these people can't see the big icon with a big E with the words Internet explorer on it.

    Source
    10-26-2012 09:03 AM
  4. brmiller1976's Avatar
    A similar exercise was done with DOS and Win 3.X users and "Longhorn." The prediction was dire failure for W95 because users were so confused.
    10-26-2012 09:14 AM
  5. sconrad308's Avatar
    A similar exercise was done with DOS and Win 3.X users and "Longhorn." The prediction was dire failure for W95 because users were so confused.
    Everything new that MS comes out with they predict doom and gloom. Honestly, even with the Vista fiasco, I realized how easily overhyped it was. The newspaper I used to work at as the IT manager, corporate had ordered us a bunch of computers all with Vista on them. I complained and said that with Vista I will be way busier than I currently was and that it was going to be a disaster. When they got there and I deployed them I realized that the company had done something fairly smart which was to have them with plenty of RAM. I found that I had less issues with them than I did with our XP or MAC machines. They are all still in place and still working great.

    The newspaper I'm at now is also a mix of PC's and Macs, with even a unix server, the PC's are actually a little less trouble.
    10-26-2012 11:13 AM
  6. rebornempowered's Avatar
    When they got there and I deployed them I realized that the company had done something fairly smart which was to have them with plenty of RAM. I found that I had less issues with them than I did with our XP or MAC machines. They are all still in place and still working great.
    I try to tell people this all the time. I used Vista on a dual core machine with 2+ GB of RAM. It was a great operating system if you had the power to run it.

    In my opinion Win8 won't be like Vista because you should not have that experience at all. It will all be getting used to the UI which people will eventually learn to deal with.
    10-26-2012 11:18 AM
  7. crystal_planet's Avatar
    And Win 8 actually uses less resources than 7 does.

    **Sent from my Windows Phone using Board Express**
    10-26-2012 11:22 AM
  8. selfcreation's Avatar
    lol , i still cant run a MAC for the life of me ,, i get lost confuse and just want to trow that white piece of Icrap out the window every time i try to play with it.

    and they say its easy to use.............. lol , its just different. so people use to MAC trying W8 for the first time... yes its gona be hard...
    10-26-2012 11:35 AM
  9. aubreyq's Avatar
    lol , i still cant run a MAC for the life of me ,, i get lost confuse and just want to trow that white piece of Icrap out the window every time i try to play with it.

    and they say its easy to use.............. lol , its just different. so people use to MAC trying W8 for the first time... yes its gona be hard...
    LOL yeah. I bet you the Macheads will trash you if they hear you say their OS is confusing. Windows 8 is just like you said: different. All people need to do is invest 10 minutes with Windows 8 and they'll get the hang of it.
    10-26-2012 11:44 AM
  10. socialcarpet's Avatar
    I can't speak for life-long Windows users, since I've been primarily a Mac user since 1984 (and even used Apple computers exclusively before the Mac)

    But, I think Windows 8 was a necessary and logical evolution. It seems far more natural and intuitive then the old Start button with a million nested folders theme to me.

    I used Windows XP for a while and found it ugly and kludgy, Windows 7 is the first version of Windows I actually like and enjoy using. Windows 8, I think will be even better. People cannot expect Windows to sit still for decades the way it has in the past.

    Microsoft had to do something here and the Win 8 interface was a logical choice IMO because:

    1. Microsoft knows for a fact that tablets are eating away at PC sales.
    2. Microsoft needs to get a foothold in the increasingly important smartphone market.
    3. What better way to ensure future dominance of the Windows platform than to tie all three together, both thematically and with seamless software interoperability.

    I think people who don't see that are missing the point. No one is going to stop you from clinging to Windows 7 for the next 10 years like many did with Windows XP, so go right ahead, but Microsoft has to continue to evolve and I, for one, applaud the "new" Microsoft that is making attractive and intuitive user interfaces for the first time in it's history. I am one die hard Apple customer who they never would have gotten any business from if they hadn't. My next computer might even be a Win 8 PC instead of a Mac.
    aubreyq likes this.
    10-26-2012 11:57 AM
  11. socialcarpet's Avatar
    lol , i still cant run a MAC for the life of me ,, i get lost confuse and just want to trow that white piece of Icrap out the window every time i try to play with it.

    and they say its easy to use.............. lol , its just different. so people use to MAC trying W8 for the first time... yes its gona be hard...
    Not really.

    I use Windows 7, Windows XP and Mac OS X every day at work.

    Windows XP is a horrid piece of garbage. Win 7 is great. Mac OS X is my preference though.

    It's not "iCrap" you're just inflexible and stuck with a Start button in your brain. Evolve or stay stagnant. Your choice.
    10-26-2012 11:59 AM
  12. socialcarpet's Avatar
    It's just the typical MS hatred shining brightly, this was just such a golden opportunity to bash MS and most of them took it. If you want to read an adult review go to anandtech and see how it's done. Much more informative than the typical hack job by sites like the verge (puke).

    @jimski: old fart! Tee hee! :D

    And forgot to say, yes we are smarter. Do you really have to ask? :)
    Actually most of the hate is coming from Windows loving propeller heads who don't like change.

    Every person I know who is comfortable with using more than one platform thinks it's great. I use Windows Phone, Mac OS X and Windows 7 and find things to like about all of them and I think Win 8 is great.
    10-26-2012 12:04 PM
  13. aubreyq's Avatar
    Actually most of the hate is coming from Windows loving propeller heads who don't like change.
    This is very true. There's a lot of Windows 8 bashing from those who can't let go of the Start button, etc.
    10-26-2012 12:10 PM
  14. simonnyc's Avatar
    IMO, this site/forum base is not a good sample size for the general population. Most (if not all) of us are windows phone users so we are very familiar with Microsoft's vision with the "Metro" UI. The avg joe is not a windows phone user and does not have any experience with live tiles so it shouldn't be a surprise that the windows 8 UX is jarring the first time around.

    With that said, ppl will slowly learn to adapt to win8 the way they have adapted to every other OS out there. All of these reviewers act like humans have zero capacity for short term memory. While attempting to turn a win8 machine off for the first time can be confusing, after learning how to turn off the machine once (through the charms bar), most ppl will be able to turn it off from then on.
    aubreyq likes this.
    10-26-2012 01:23 PM
  15. brmiller1976's Avatar
    I agree. The term "Power User" is way overused. Its even made its way down to mobile devices. For the life of me I cannot figure out what the Android fans that consider themselves "Power Users" mean by that.
    Right. "Mac Power User" or "iOS Power User" is a downright oxymoron. :)
    10-26-2012 06:58 PM
  16. AngryNil's Avatar
    "Power user" is usually code for "stubborn old fart who sticks to crappy methods and complains about change". Reviewers are typically of that sort, and in the case of many of these reviews, they just can't wait to get back to their beloved OS X. I would not be surprised if a large majority of these reviews come from diehard Mac users.

    And this is why I think it would be fantastic if we could get impressions from anyone here who has used a Surface. I'm not interested in Joshua Topolsky's opinion of a Windows product. I'm interested in a Windows user's opinion of a Windows product.

    And to be fair, I used to be one of those power users. I'd do things in mindbogglingly stupid ways because I didn't bother to learn about this feature or click on that button. But I think it's important for those who consider themselves technologically literate to constantly reassess their usage scenarios and be open to new things.

    From the communities I frequent, a lot of Windows 8 criticism comes from the Android camp. I don't think it's surprising that the people who have the mobile OS closest to a desktop OS are the ones complaining. They just can't accept change.

    That's multiple reviewers saying that the cameras are awful, the apps crash, the OS is laggy when you open a lot of apps and the app selection is pitiful. Aren't those facts? Yeah let's call Josh Topolsky a liar when he said the kickstand scratched his wooden table. Yeah maybe a hard metal kickstand wasn't the best idea ever.
    Enjoy your ban.
    brmiller1976 likes this.
    10-26-2012 11:54 PM
  17. squire777's Avatar
    The majority of complainers are as you said, those picky people that don't like any sort of change. Just because it takes an extra click to get to the desktop everyone started flipping out when the preview versions came out. I personally don't see what is so hard about the OS considering everything is in big bright coloured tiles. The gestures to open and close things, and to jump back and forth to the desktop might take a day or two to get a hang of, but it's not really as hard as some are making it out to be.

    I don't mean to be sexist, but I installed a pre-release version on my ladyfriend's desktop a while ago since she wanted to see what the fuss about Win 8 was. She isn't exactly too tech savvy (i mean she can use a Mac or Windows, iphone etc) and she liked the interface and had no issues aside from the fact that it was different. I think the average user will learn to love it when they get a hang of it.
    10-27-2012 12:29 AM
  18. manicottiK's Avatar
    it would be fantastic if we could get impressions from anyone here who has used a Surface.
    OK, here's mine. Note, most of this was written last night in response to a question from our Microsoft rep. I've had the Surface since about 9am on Friday, but spent most of Friday doing the same 10-minute demo for a stream of people who kept walking in to my office to see the device. Here's what I told MS:

    Surface is well built, except for the power connector. The reviewers complaining about this are right. The power connected magnets are too weak and the 22 degree side bezel makes it awkward to attach the connected because people expect sides of things to be perpendicular to the front. (Of course, the latter will get better with user experience, as I think it already is with me.)

    Most of the kickstand complaints that I’ve read seem off-base. I have been able to open it from the left, right, and bottom and I don’t have big fingernails; obviously its easiest to open from the left, where the case has a cutout. I do wonder if the 78 degree tilt from horizontal makes this device seem to laptop-ish compared to the nearly flat angle iPad users can get from their covers. In meetings at the office, iPads are unobtrusive and don't block views; Surface will.

    The device is unacceptably slow. It takes seconds (2-5) to open most apps, which is slower than on my Windows Phone. In some apps (or under some circumstances, I’m not really sure which), some UI elements don't always visibly react instantly (like the tilt effect on WP7) when touched, leading you to tap or pull them again, only to have both actions eventually take place (like selecting and then unselecting an item in a list).

    The touch keyboard is far better than I expected. It worked well very quickly for me. The keyboard connection is amazing – it seats well every time with little effort to position it and it holds on for dear life. I enjoyed giving some colleagues worried looks when I held the keyboard, dangled the Surface, and tried to shake it loose. (My other hand was ready to catch it, just in case.)

    Unless there’s some magic setting that I’ve missed, the cameras are the worst low resolution devices that I’ve seen in years. Both top out at 1.0 mega pixels. What was MS thinking here!?

    Positioning cursor is much harder than on phone. The tap-and-hold to get the I-beam cursor is not available and tapping seems to only place the cursor at word boundaries, forcing the use of arrow keys. Handling auto-correct is also harder than on the phones as I haven’t yet seen a way to tap on a word after the fact to change which auto-correct suggestion I really want.

    Some of the apps are gorgeous, other exploit the UI and layout less well, and some were clearly rushed for opening day. I expect app quality to go up as developers get a bit more time and experience under their belts. Those who executed well, really took advantage of the 16:9 aspect ratio and made reading work well. One colleague suggested that widescreen with horizontal scrolling was a more natural way to read than what we do now with long vertical pages on computers. I consider that high praise.

    There’s no street view in the maps app. (Apple must be thrilled.)

    I don’t like having a non-USB charger, but understand and agree with the logic behind the decision. Still, I wish there were a way to do a slow, overnight recharge via USB, if that's all I wanted.

    Finally, whoever suggested and whoever greenlighted the name “RT” should be terminated. It just doesn't give any sense of what it's about. Why not something like Windows Light? Then, they could call the UI “Lightweight Design” (since they need to replace "Metro") and call the programs “Lightweight apps” instead of “Windows Store apps.” Light (or ”Lite”) gives the sense of less complicated apps, more content and less chrome, and lighter-weight devices.

    I want to like it more, but it’s currently just a curiosity object. [It was bought for testing our app with a live ARM device.] I am looking forward to Surface Pro and to seeing some of the Atom-powered devices.
    Last edited by manicottiK; 10-27-2012 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Fix typos
    10-27-2012 07:54 AM
  19. Winterfang's Avatar
    Metro is a very confusing interface. Even a seasoned Windows Phone user like me, had a hard time using the new outlook layout.
    10-27-2012 09:13 AM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    Metro is a very confusing interface. Even a seasoned Windows Phone user like me, had a hard time using the new outlook layout.
    Metro makes sense but it makes more sense on a touch device. The most jarring thing for me is when you drop out to the desktop - I can see the enterprise benefits of this but to a general consumer it's just plain odd.
    Last edited by cgk1; 10-27-2012 at 09:33 AM.
    10-27-2012 09:26 AM
  21. brmiller1976's Avatar
    I'm not interested in Joshua Topolsky's opinion of a Windows product. I'm interested in a Windows user's opinion of a Windows product.
    That is a HUGE point and a big sticking point for me.

    Why would I care about what a die-hard Apple fan thinks of Windows? It's as irrelevant as Paul Thurrot's take on Mac OS X is to a Mac guy. Yet Topolsky is presented as some "god of tech" rather than someone who is qualified to cover only Apple's part of the tech space (which really is the situation).
    a5cent likes this.
    10-27-2012 09:37 AM
  22. sanien's Avatar
    I would be ashamed to call myself a power user if not finding a start button frustrates me. Or finding control panel without using brain by just starting to type "C.O.N.T.R.... " on the tiles hub will automagically show me CONTROL PANEL in the list of apps!
    Just go to the bottom where the start-botton used to be and right click. All you advanced functions are there much easier than ever b4 :-D
    Jazmac and cgk like this.
    10-27-2012 04:52 PM
  23. GreenScrew's Avatar
    Talk about learning curve, you should see me trying to get around on a Mac which everyone claims to be so friendly and easy to use. Anything different has a learning curve, but I can guarantee the learning curve going from XP/Vista/7 to Windows 8 is nothing compared to the curve going from any of those to Mac O/S X.

    I've been using 8 for over a year now, so I don't recall how much of a challenge it was originally. But it doesn't seem very drastic to me. I'm not sure if they have it or not, but a very short tutorial from MS at start up that covers the basic changes would go a long way to help new adopters transition. Wouldn't take much, just explaining the Start Screen use, and new navigation (touch and conventional). Seems like a 5 minute tutorial and anyone could be using it efficiently.
    snowmutt and brmiller1976 like this.
    10-28-2012 10:30 AM
  24. graigsmith's Avatar
    the part that's weird is that there's a desktop side and a metro side. that's what gets a little odd. and having to right click so I can see the search bar in the metro internet explorer.
    10-28-2012 02:34 PM
  25. JKing106's Avatar
    It's hilarious that anyone using a point and click UI would call themselves a "power user." What does that even mean? That you're not a 69 year old grandma that's confused by a dumb cell phone? That you know how to use uTorrent to get 'GAEMZ" and unreleased movies? A retarded blind chimp can use any current GUI.
    snowmutt and socialcarpet like this.
    10-28-2012 02:57 PM
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