10-30-2012 03:27 PM
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  1. brmiller1976's Avatar
    But Microsoft has changed so very much! Nobody will ever adapt!

    Where is Winsock? Without it, traditional users will have NO IDEA how to connect to the Internet!

    I cannot make a program group anymore! How do I organize my apps?!?

    Where is the Active Desktop?!? When I try to access the network or local drives through IE, it doesn't work anymore!

    Microsoft has eliminated Windows Update as a component of IE... now it is in some newfangled control panel. This will confuse users who are accustomed to going to WindowsUpdate.com!

    Where is Clippy?!? How am I supposed to get help?!?

    All of these changes clearly prevented adoption of Windows 95, XP, and 7, right?

    Uhhh... they didn't.

    Learning Windows 8 takes less time for a user than learning Windows 95 did when coming from 3.X, or 7 did for users coming from XP.

    And as a mid 30s guy, I am old enough to remember the furious magazine articles and blog posts complaining about these changes, and authors darkly warning that this was an opening for the Mac (and Mac clones), Amiga, Linux, OS/2, etc. just as they are doing now.
    10-28-2012 11:20 PM
  2. squire777's Avatar
    This JKing guy reminds me of an angrier version of a recently banned troll.
    10-29-2012 12:05 AM
  3. JKing106's Avatar
    OK. We get it, you don't like W8. Your loss like I said. No need for you to be here. I can tell you that W8 is easier and better on my 3 year old laptop than my brand new iMac running the latest version of OS X that the company gave me. It does more and is faster and you know what? I don't even touch screen and will not go back to another OS. It's a shame that he went to all that trouble when he didn't have to. But that was how he decided to approach it and it is more work than necessary. Again, his loss too.
    I like it just fine when I'm not forced to use Metro on the desktop.
    10-29-2012 02:33 AM
  4. sconrad308's Avatar
    I like it just fine when I'm not forced to use Metro on the desktop.
    Have you actually used it? I mean the RTM not the pre-release beta?
    10-29-2012 08:18 AM
  5. aubreyq's Avatar
    Microsoft will release a service pack enabling an option to disable Metro, and re-enabling the old "Start" menu within 6 months. Guaranteed. Metro is great on phones and tablets, where it belongs. On the desktop, it's a an annoyance.
    Guaranteed NOT to happen. Ever.
    brmiller1976 likes this.
    10-29-2012 08:26 AM
  6. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Or maybe the don't like the new flow of the OS and find some things confusing. Doesn't make you smarter.
    10-29-2012 09:35 AM
  7. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Right. "Mac Power User" or "iOS Power User" is a downright oxymoron. :)
    Not really.

    Mac OS X has UNIX underpinnings and a terminal. It's every bit as capable as Windows and there are definitely Mac "power users". Don't kid yourself. Most of Hollywood uses Mac's in movie production, they are widely used throughout the music industry. I used to work at the National Human Genome Research Institute (part of the NIH) which mapped the Human Genome, and guess what? That institute is 85-90% Mac and the majority of the NIH is Mac as well, 65-70% with a large number of UNIX and Linux machines as well. Windows is in the minority there. Lawrence Livermore labs in California which does nuclear and nuclear weapons research has the second largest network of Mac's in the world, second to only Apple Inc.

    Please give the "mac users are dumb" crap a rest. It's getting old and there is just as high a percentage of Windows users who are inept, believe me. There's a millions of dollars, maybe billions, being made by the malware industry because of the vast masses of uneducated, foolish amateur Windows users.
    10-29-2012 09:47 AM
  8. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Microsoft will release a service pack enabling an option to disable Metro, and re-enabling the old "Start" menu within 6 months. Guaranteed. Metro is great on phones and tablets, where it belongs. On the desktop, it's a an annoyance.
    I think that Metro will be useful for average users just looking to jump on their computer real quick and check the weather, news and Facebook, which believe it or not, is what most people use their computers for. That and downloading music, movies and watching porn. That is all most people do with their computers. Windows 8 does nothing to get in the way of any of that, and if anything, the Metro interface makes it a lot simpler to do the basic stuff like weather, news, Facebook etc, since you can see a bunch of things at a glance.

    The regular desktop is there for everything else.

    I don't think Microsoft is going to "re-enable" the Start menu, but I'm sure there will be plenty of third party solutions that do this for all the luddites who insist a stupid Start button some how enhances their productivity and makes the computer more powerful.
    10-29-2012 09:56 AM
  9. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Or maybe the don't like the new flow of the OS and find some things confusing. Doesn't make you smarter.
    I agree, it's a preference. People who don't like it can stay with Windows 7, just like people who griped about Vista and 7 stayed with XP.

    Sooner or later, they will fall in line and take 15 minutes to adjust to the new UI, just like they did with Windows 7.
    10-29-2012 09:58 AM
  10. srmiller82's Avatar
    Um yeah your right this guy is either a hater or an *****, i dont have to click the link to know, first of all to do an update on a surface you do ONE swipe and click ONE button and your at the windows update, and i have a surface i would know and yes these apps have not been tested or been out very long to get all the bugs out so someone had to take up 3 SECONDS to do an update and it reboots in what 20 secs? Believe it is not a 5 step process to update anything, and anyone claiming it is, IS a hater or too dumb to use the easiest tablet invented yet. And the desktop is still there nobody is forcing anybody to use touch, and another note on one of your other comments about mac being able to run command line and be fully accessible, you can get to the command line on windows RT by typing "CO" from the start screen pulls up in 2 secs and has the complete command land to the NT kernel, and yes i've used OSX nobody cares about a shell running on top of unix that mac didnt even invent, unix was around before macs. Microsoft actually built the nt kernel unlike mac, and my wife owns 4 different apple devices she knows NOTHING about any command lines in unix just like i have a feeling you either, i've used linux, unix, dos,windows, NT, OSX at one point or another programmed in different languages and used to run support for huge networks, and i bought a surface tablet, no it doesnt do everything windows 7 does but the PRO version will and i dont need the RT to do all that, like everybody else says in a year nobody will complain about it and the world will go back to normal where MAC computers get outsold by windows pc's because microsoft actually puts money in R&D and makes stuff useful that works instead of a slower system that is compatible with almost nothing in the real world everybody has to something special for a mac. please just cause they look cool on the outside doesnt mean the mac is better i promise i own a macbook.


    This guy doesn't agree. He can type faster than "Word" on RT can register. He was told to update "Office." Here's the process:

    1 Head to the Control Panel version of Windows Update, not the Metro-accessible version that you use for more everyday settings changes.

    2 Fire up a search for Windows Update, and select Install optional updates, instead of Windows Update from the list of results.

    3 If no updates are available, have the device run a check. If there are, then get going right away. The update is titled Update for Microsoft Office Home & Student 201[3] RT Preview.

    4 Select it, and install.

    5 Reboot.

    Why Im Returning My Microsoft Surface RT | Brent Ozar

    But he's just a "hater," right? SURFACE IS PERFECT!

    In short, like a lot of other things in Windows 8, Metro and the desktop version of the OS are almost completely unattached, and you have to update Office just like on older versions of Windows. Completely half-assed implementation. Just slap the touch UI on top of Windows 7, and force everyone to use it.
    10-29-2012 11:23 AM
  11. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Not really.

    Mac OS X has UNIX underpinnings and a terminal. It's every bit as capable as Windows and there are definitely Mac "power users". Don't kid yourself. Most of Hollywood uses Mac's in movie production, they are widely used throughout the music industry. I used to work at the National Human Genome Research Institute (part of the NIH) which mapped the Human Genome, and guess what? That institute is 85-90% Mac and the majority of the NIH is Mac as well, 65-70% with a large number of UNIX and Linux machines as well. Windows is in the minority there. Lawrence Livermore labs in California which does nuclear and nuclear weapons research has the second largest network of Mac's in the world, second to only Apple Inc.

    Please give the "mac users are dumb" crap a rest. It's getting old and there is just as high a percentage of Windows users who are inept, believe me. There's a millions of dollars, maybe billions, being made by the malware industry because of the vast masses of uneducated, foolish amateur Windows users.
    Sorry, I run both, and Macs just aren't as useful. I know a few niche industries use them because of legacy ties to Mac OS, but Macs are pricier, less efficient, more expensive to support, and lack the necessary apps for productivity.

    That is why the best selling software for the Mac is Windows... you need Windows to make one truly useful (and at that point, you will have paid 2x to 5x as much to get just another Windows machine).
    10-29-2012 12:03 PM
  12. JKing106's Avatar
    Sorry, I run both, and Macs just aren't as useful. I know a few niche industries use them because of legacy ties to Mac OS, but Macs are pricier, less efficient, more expensive to support, and lack the necessary apps for productivity.

    That is why the best selling software for the Mac is Windows... you need Windows to make one truly useful (and at that point, you will have paid 2x to 5x as much to get just another Windows machine).
    Whatever, fanboy. You don't know what you're talking about.
    10-29-2012 12:06 PM
  13. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Wow, that was a devastating riposte. I am clearly intellectually outclassed! :D
    10-29-2012 12:07 PM
  14. brmiller1976's Avatar
    PS -- my sense of smell has been validated! I smelled Apple troll from the get-go and I was right!

    Next up, an explanation of why criticizing the Mac's many flaws is "unfair," but Apple's ads claiming that Windows cannot produce video, print in color, or connect to a digital camera are A-OK. Coming in 3, 2, 1...
    10-29-2012 12:09 PM
  15. power5's Avatar
    I have win8 on a all in one machine. The touch works, but I can not drag the charms in from the right. Can not drag closed from top. Can not do any of the swipe functions because my bezel does not work like the surface. How are other people getting this to work on touch monitors that have the huge picture frame like step down around the monitor?
    10-29-2012 01:37 PM
  16. srmiller82's Avatar
    I have win8 on a all in one machine. The touch works, but I can not drag the charms in from the right. Can not drag closed from top. Can not do any of the swipe functions because my bezel does not work like the surface. How are other people getting this to work on touch monitors that have the huge picture frame like step down around the monitor?
    You may be able to reduce the resolution so the screen is smaller and has a border around it, other than that maybe buy a touchpad, this all in one obviously was upgraded didnt ship that way right?
    10-29-2012 01:40 PM
  17. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    WHich is a fanboy of?

    You make such insightful comments.
    Whatever, fanboy. You don't know what you're talking about.
    10-29-2012 01:43 PM
  18. invertme's Avatar
    You know the same people said the iPad would be a failure, was just an oversized iPhone and sounded like an female hygiene Apple product... :dry
    Except for the (financial) failure part all of this is accurate though.
    10-29-2012 02:37 PM
  19. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Sorry, I run both, and Macs just aren't as useful. I know a few niche industries use them because of legacy ties to Mac OS, but Macs are pricier, less efficient, more expensive to support, and lack the necessary apps for productivity.

    That is why the best selling software for the Mac is Windows... you need Windows to make one truly useful (and at that point, you will have paid 2x to 5x as much to get just another Windows machine).
    Whether or not Mac's are more useful or efficient is a matter of opinion, not a fact one way or the other. Not sure what productivity apps you're lacking there either.

    You're basically talking a lot of horsecrap, but it's OK, this bias is prevalent and I'm used to it by now.

    I like my Mac and my Windows computers both and I can use both equally well and I haven't run into anything I could do on one platform but not the other in a very long time.

    Truthfully, if Microsoft makes a some more refinements to Windows, I could see myself phasing out my Mac in the future. Right now I'm still pretty invested in having multiple desktops (helps the efficiency of my workflow), search that works far better than Windows, better trackpad gestures and I prefer the OS X Finder, miller columns work a lot better for me than the lame Windows deal with nested folders and little arrows and tree views. I can blaze through miller columns in about 1/2 the time.

    If Microsoft added native multiple desktops and miller columns to Windows Explorer though, I'd be running out of excuses. I don't particularly care for Apple's prices, that's for sure. I don't like the way they are practically gluing all their machines together so you can hardly upgrade them either.

    We'll see what the future holds. Maybe Windows 9 will finally have multiple desktops and some of the other advanced features Mac and *nix users have been enjoying for years.
    10-29-2012 02:58 PM
  20. socialcarpet's Avatar
    PS -- my sense of smell has been validated! I smelled Apple troll from the get-go and I was right!

    Next up, an explanation of why criticizing the Mac's many flaws is "unfair," but Apple's ads claiming that Windows cannot produce video, print in color, or connect to a digital camera are A-OK. Coming in 3, 2, 1...
    Post a link to the Apple ads claiming Windows can't produce video, print in color or connect to a digital camera please.

    Thanks.
    10-29-2012 03:02 PM
  21. power5's Avatar
    You may be able to reduce the resolution so the screen is smaller and has a border around it, other than that maybe buy a touchpad, this all in one obviously was upgraded didnt ship that way right?
    Yeah, I will have to try downsampling possibly. Just changing it will not do anything but put less pixels on the screen. Not sure if downsampling would affect my other monitor though.
    10-29-2012 06:39 PM
  22. power5's Avatar
    Ok, cannot find a way to make Catalyst Control Center work. Must not have a windows 8 CCC yet.
    10-29-2012 07:34 PM
  23. mlm1950's Avatar
    Ok, cannot find a way to make Catalyst Control Center work. Must not have a windows 8 CCC yet.
    I can't even get it to work in Windows 7.
    10-29-2012 07:38 PM
  24. power5's Avatar
    Yeah, CCC has always been a PITA to install. If you have an older driver installed, you basically have to remove all AMD hardware and all drivers. Then make sure the folder location is also deleted.

    Not sure if they ever fixed these problems. I am one that does not update my video driver. No need to really, I have an HD4890 so its not going to see any huge performance bump with each monthly update.
    10-29-2012 08:05 PM
  25. srmiller82's Avatar
    I happen to own both just like you and have for years, saying you haven't into anything that you cant do on a mac means you don't use it extensively as some other people do, even if you find a way to do a lot of stuff on a mac that is done on windows you have to jump thru hoops to do it which "it just works" goes out the window with that, saying you navigate through columns faster is also of base do you know many thousands of explorers you can download for windows to make it more efficient and you could find them in a matter of seconds, yes maybe mac has one built in, but exploring files is your way of saying mac is better? I mean cmon that's ridiculous, the number of applications alone would be enough for me not to use a mac, usually windows ALWAYS gets released first before the mac version, my wife has a MacBook pro that she runs adobe on, it is PAINFULLY slower than the windows version, theres plenty of ways to do tons of things on mac I mean its unix based theres also tons of ways to do it on Linux, who cares I don't want to spend hours trying to figure out a way to do it, and if you say that you never run into this that just means all you ever do is edit photo/videos store data and use firewire I mean, if all the offices in America ran on macs BESIDES the graphics design people the headaches would be awful, I've worked on unix networks before they are a complete headache, mac has put a shell on top of this and attempted to make it easier to get things done it has never caught up to windows, you can CERTAIN niche things quicker in it, but the kernel itself doesn't handle resources as well as NT never has and that's why macs are slow at everything yes unix is more stable but, the last time a windows computer of mine locked up to where I couldn't use it was windows xp years and years ago and even then, so it locked up once a week but yet worked with everything and anything ever I ever plugged into it. I'm not saying macs are bad like I said I have one, i'm saying there are way too many things that are better about windows than the 2 little things that mac is better at for me to make mac my preference, its all about weighing pros and cons, it sounds like whatever you use your mac for it works slightly better than windows, but I can tell you, your in the minority, macs don't get outsold because they got a bad rap, they get outsold because windows on a regular basis is more useful and more things are made for it, just like the iphone having tons of apps its because nobody wants to make software for something that hardly anybody has, if It were the other way around maybe mac would be more useful, but boot times and slow loading of apps and generally being slower is enough for me to stay away from macs I've considered them slow since the early 90's. You may be used to the mac/windows fanboys or whatever but I choose what is the most versatile always, that's why I bought a surface has a keyboard that doubles as a cover a kickstand does almost everything a normal laptop does, THE MOST VERSATILE, now I wil prolly end up with pro when it comes outs because that would be more versatile than this but hardware wise this thing is really versatile just like windows in general has always been and I've never considered macs versatile. I mean working with graphics designers old macs trying to transfer files was SUCH A PAIN it was sometimes not worth it, and then I would come in and it would be stuck loading something for 20 minutes literally, maybe this doesn't happen as much these days, but it seemed like they were not working correctly everytime I came in, samethings happen with windows machines but this is one of the things mac lovers claim mac is better at, I think they both have problems, but at the end of the day windows has more options and runs in my opinion just as good. So I pick the one with more options and is more versatile for less of a headache..... I don't need headache just because a computer might need rebooted slightly less. For the record macs are decent machines, but cost slightly more too, also you cant upgrade anything on a mac if you want to up your graphics memory on a desktop for your business you upgrade it plain and simple, even Linux has this over mac. apple has always did this, try to make everything no compatible so you HAVE to buy from them, its completely about money always has been, yes Microsoft is all about money so is everybody but the same hardware that works on windows can be thrown into a Linux machine or unix or whatever and you can upgrade, mac doesn't have better hardware they don't make ANY of the internals its the same stuff that goes into EVERY other computer wrapped in a mac shell, but it runs mac osx which is not very popular so I don't see the why I would spend more for that, you can install unix with a shell on a home built system and it will run just as stable and pay half as much and upgrade as much as you want. That being said macs run fine and are decent I choose windows as my main operating system I leave the mac for my wife shes a photographer and went with the industry standard for photographers she knows very little about computers, which is probably why mac users get the flack about not knowing, I have ran into zero mac users that knew more than me about computers, because most professional IT people that goto school for this learn about Microsoft not apple, apple is rarely EVER in a teaching book so why would any mac user be that educated on computers/networking, I have a friend who likes mac he is a programmer he knows ALOT about programming but funny enough knows nothing about networking or hardware, because very few HUGE networks run on mac just doesn't happen, anyway i'm done rambling, nobody is saying your dumb if you use mac but is mac the most practical I don't think so.

    Whether or not Mac's are more useful or efficient is a matter of opinion, not a fact one way or the other. Not sure what productivity apps you're lacking there either.

    You're basically talking a lot of horsecrap, but it's OK, this bias is prevalent and I'm used to it by now.

    I like my Mac and my Windows computers both and I can use both equally well and I haven't run into anything I could do on one platform but not the other in a very long time.

    Truthfully, if Microsoft makes a some more refinements to Windows, I could see myself phasing out my Mac in the future. Right now I'm still pretty invested in having multiple desktops (helps the efficiency of my workflow), search that works far better than Windows, better trackpad gestures and I prefer the OS X Finder, miller columns work a lot better for me than the lame Windows deal with nested folders and little arrows and tree views. I can blaze through miller columns in about 1/2 the time.

    If Microsoft added native multiple desktops and miller columns to Windows Explorer though, I'd be running out of excuses. I don't particularly care for Apple's prices, that's for sure. I don't like the way they are practically gluing all their machines together so you can hardly upgrade them either.

    We'll see what the future holds. Maybe Windows 9 will finally have multiple desktops and some of the other advanced features Mac and *nix users have been enjoying for years.
    10-29-2012 08:16 PM
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