01-16-2014 12:29 PM
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  1. etphoto's Avatar

    If you force people to use something rather than allowing them the option you will simply push them away from the platform entirely. The consumer can figure out what they like and do not like without having people who think they know better making decisions for them.
    Then moved to another platform and after 85-90 yrs from now when
    Microsoft goes belly up, your grand kids come back here and brag on how forward thinking you where.

    I just don't get it. Every OS makes changes in an attempt to get better and Microsoft, in my opinion, is moving toward more of a mobile market (smartly) and they want their desktop OS to be a similar experience.
    Guytronic likes this.
    01-02-2014 05:37 PM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    The fact that this thread, and many others like it, exist proves there is a problem (with the W8 Start Screen).
    Apparently the point I'm trying to make is very hard to understand... so I'll say again that, yes, I agree. I already admitted there is a problem... one of perception and understanding. Still, although this W8 Start Screen problem is a matter of psychology (familiarity, subjective aesthetics, flexibility, etc) more than it is one of software technology, its consequences (market share, acceptance, image, etc) are nevertheless very real.

    If you believe that a large number of people sharing a view automatically counts as validation of that view, then I'd suggest a good history book... Thor is real, Jews are a non-human race, the command line is far superior to this new-fangled toy called the mouse, which will disappear soon enough (or at least be relegated to the kids room)... all of those were once widespread and strongly held convictions, at least in some regions.

    You don't need to change YOUR mind about which is better, or convince users one way is better.
    No, I don't need to. I want to. The WPC community changes my mind a little bit every day, and I hope I can help evolve other people's views as well. Not everyone is satisfied by sticking with their first impressions for all eternity.

    More than anything else, it is the W8 Start Screen that is faulted for people's poor experiences, yet the accusers rarely provide a detailed explanation as to how and why. I think the onus is on them to do so. However, few question those accusations, because many have subconsciously come to accept that the problem is self evident, which just isn't true. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I hope at least some people find such questioning worthwhile. I don't see how improving our understanding of the actual technical situation can be a bad thing, which is what I'd prefer to be talking about.

    Again, in a nutshell, the W8 Start Screen is objectively superior to the W7 Start Menu. Anyone that goes through each feature, point by point, and compares how each task is completed in both versions of Windows, should have little difficulty convincing themselves that the W8 app launcher (the Start Screen) is functionally at least equivalent to that of W7.

    I won't comment any further on whether I'm right or wrong to question the OP's opinion. I'll gladly continue with the technical discussion...

    Back on topic...

    Suggesting that OEMs believe W8 is the main reason for lower desktop and laptop sales volumes is just bad reporting. The reason for lower sales is mainly price, and the continued miniaturization of computing technology. This would have happened even if W8 was the best OS ever. If most people can now have 80% of their computing needs met by a cheap tablet, why would they continue to spend their computing dollars on far more expensive desktops and laptops, particularly when most people haven't seen the need for a faster PC in years. Putting Android emulators on desktops and laptops won't make them a dime cheaper, quite the opposite actually, and the cheaper alternatives will still be good enough... Android emulators won't improve desktop/laptop sales at all.

    For WRT tablets, offering an Android emulator might make a difference, but only if that has little influence on price. This would be very dangerous to MS however. It certainly doesn't further MS' interests. Allegedly, MS is thinking about reducing WP and WRT licensing costs to zero. They would compensate via profits made through app sales in the Windows Store. If Windows tablet users instead turn to Google's Play Store for most of their apps, then how is MS to earn anything at all with their OS efforts? I think such a move has the potential to kill Windows as a tablet OS.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-05-2014 at 11:52 AM.
    hopmedic, Guytronic and mpt15 like this.
    01-03-2014 06:06 AM
  3. Ryanz's Avatar
    Win 8 is their first try at a major shift from previous offerings. It may not be until Win 9 or Win 10 before it becomes accepted. One thing that can almost be stated as fact is it will get accepted sooner or later.

    Come the end of the day where else are you going to go?
    Can they really wait until Windows 9 (let alone 10)? Three of the major computer stores I live by, Windows desktops, laptops and tablets didn't move at all throughout Christmas, Boxing Day (or Boxing Week) -- and that's despite a $150 price reduction in the 64GB Surface RT, which is STILL on sale ($70 off now however).
    Chromebooks, MacBook Airs and Pro's sold out before Christmas. 21" iMacs & Mac mini's sold out during Boxing Week sales (despite not being on sale).

    People who realize they don't do much other than use a browser, a Chromebook is hard to beat.
    At least in my city, people have made the move towards Apple (or at least away from Windows). When I purchased my laptop a guy was buying a 27" iMac. He told the employee it was because he "detested" Windows 8. So whether people hate Windows 8 or have become integrated with Apple products do to iPads or iPhones, people are realizing they do have a choice.
    I did buy a Windows 8 laptop but didn't like it (Windows 8 that is). I could have installed Windows 7 if I purchased a USB DVD-drive, but I decided to give Linux a fair shot. Over a month and a half and I haven't looked back.
    01-06-2014 09:46 PM
  4. jwinch2's Avatar
    Then moved to another platform and after 85-90 yrs from now when
    Microsoft goes belly up, your grand kids come back here and brag on how forward thinking you where.

    I just don't get it. Every OS makes changes in an attempt to get better and Microsoft, in my opinion, is moving toward more of a mobile market (smartly) and they want their desktop OS to be a similar experience.
    You can lead people where you think things should go and make the transition easy by allowing it to be an option, or you can arrogantly push people where you think things should go, and in doing so risk ******* your consumer base off, which is what is happening right now. We tend to forget that there is an actual person at the end of the supply chain who has to like and want to use the product that is being produced.
    01-14-2014 02:02 PM
  5. jwinch2's Avatar
    http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/th...hip-april-2015

    The fact that MS is working to push "Windows 9" so soon suggests that they recognize that this is a problem of a scale that is larger than many wish to admit.
    01-14-2014 02:05 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/th...hip-april-2015

    The fact that MS is working to push "Windows 9" so soon suggests that they recognize that this is a problem of a scale that is larger than many wish to admit.
    Read the thread again. Nobody is saying it's not a problem.
    01-14-2014 11:38 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Back on topic... how much of a rebellion did we actually whiteness? In hindsight, it seems like this report was completely overblown...
    dkediger likes this.
    01-14-2014 11:58 PM
  8. genuine555's Avatar
    Hi, may I add my perspective on the subject ?

    I have also been using Windows from day and age, and tried them all.
    At home the consumer editions, on the workfloor(s) the proffesional server and meta-server editions.
    To stay on subject, below only concerns the consumer editions.

    One thing I have noticed throughout the editions, is that the "efficiency" of the platforms since Win2000 have been going STEADILY in 2-step increments. Because of the exponentionally growing "pace" of our economy, since Win2000, the devellopment and production stages before releasing to the public have been drastically shortened.

    Meaning every "next" one will be optimized, the one after less optimized, etc...

    So in Bold here is what I mean :

    Win2000
    Win Millenium
    WinXP
    Win Vista
    Win7
    Win8

    The Bold ones were the better ones, the ones in between less optimized and less efficient.
    Win2000, XP and 7 are the three rock solid platforms. Win Mill, Vista and 8 (imo) all sucked and still do.
    Because of this chronology, after a short review of win8 I never even looked at that edition despite its elaborate marketing setup.
    I know it sucks. I tried it and just didn't see the advantage over 7, at least in terms of true "efficienty" in daily usage with mouse and keyb. 7 beats it easily. There is no need for that metro stuff, at least untill it is finally optimized like XP and 7.
    At the time of 2000 I waited for XP, and never used millenium for myself. At the age of XP, I waited untill 7, and never used Vista for myself.
    Now, I am doing the same thing. Sticking with 7 untill the next edition after 8. I will never use 8. It is just the same mess as Vista was (maybe not AS bad but still similar)...

    I predict that the next edition after 8/8.1 will again be a "hit" among the consumers, just like XP and 7...
    01-16-2014 12:29 PM
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