Possible Revolution by MS, A new flagship.

PepperdotNet

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Look, a dockable x86 Lumia phone, that becomes a PC when you connect it to a monitor, is not going to happen, at least not this particular iteration of Windows on phones. The hardware just isn't there yet.

Five to ten years from now? Who knows.
Seriously? Small cheap tablets running x86 Windows exist now. It can't be that hard or expensive to add a LTE radio to such a design.
 

WNxAshik

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Seriously? Small cheap tablets running x86 Windows exist now. It can't be that hard or expensive to add a LTE radio to such a design.

Exactly, now if we pack an intel SOC, it could pretty much run a full windows10 when docked. This thread isn't about spec heavy flagships, its about a new device which could pretty much become a portable laptop in your pocket, Imagine having Windows 10 powerup that screen in your car, or the screen in your office, or the one at your home all from that phone you carry in your pocket. If the newer 14nm SOCs can hit the market early, MS could easily do that.

I don't understand why these stupid people are commenting about why there shouldn't be an intel SOC on a phone, That is not just a phone, its a machine that turns into a PC when docked, and so requires x86 architecture.

On the other hand, Cramming maximum specs onto the flagship ensures that future versions of the OS will also run smoothly on the device.
My time machine tells me that a lot of Lumia 920 users are gonna be disappointed when win10 hits their phones, because that exflagship isn't fast enough for the new universal apps and the OS or that win10 is a battery hogger(since 920 has a 2000mah battery).

It doesn't take 5to10 years, Motorola's WebTop was a good idea, but the hardware wasn't yet ready. If MS could imply something similar and use x86 architecture, it would be a definite win. I proposed intel SOC because x86>>ARM in terms of performance.


And you can easily pack a 3000mah battery onto a 5" device btw and look what 930 has..
 

cool8man

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I don't think they bought Nokia's mobile phone team to put a run of the mill 20MP camera on their flagship smartphone. Nokia's bread and butter was photography, the camera has to be amazing on whatever flagship comes out.

I also don't understand what is the point of using an Intel chip if the OS version that runs on devices less than 8" has no access to legacy Windows programs. Docking is very niche and isn't really going to excite many people. You can dock 7" and 8" Atom tablets today, but how many people are tossing out their laptop or desktop for that solution. I'm not opposed to the idea as a feature, but I don't think it is a big selling point for the average person. The wow-factor isn't there because everyone already has a PC with a keyboard.

If they really want to impress and get some attention they should build a phone with no bezel, edge to edge display. Basically an iPhone 5.5" the size of an iPhone 4.7". It sounds crazy but it is doable. The total diagonal dimension of an iPhone 6 (4.7" model) is 6". The iPhone 6 body is bigger than the iPhone 6+ display. What a talking point it would be. Our big screen phone is smaller than Apple's little screen phone. Of course part of it is cheating, they would have to use on-screen buttons, but still. The TV commercials could hammer the competition on hardware design and specs. Hey Siri why the long face?
 
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WNxAshik

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I don't think they bought Nokia's mobile phone team to put a run of the mill 20MP camera on their flagship smartphone. Nokia's bread and butter was photography, the camera has to be amazing on whatever flagship comes out.

I also don't understand what is the point of using an Intel chip if the OS version that runs on devices less than 8" has no access to legacy Windows programs.


If they really want to impress and get some attention they should build a phone with no bezel, edge to edge display. Basically an iPhone 5.5" the size of an iPhone 4.7". It sounds crazy but it is doable. The total diagonal dimension of an iPhone 6 (4.7" model) is 6". The iPhone 6 body is bigger than the iPhone 6+ display. What a talking point it would be. Our big screen phone is smaller than Apple's little screen phone. Of course part of it is cheating, they would have to use on-screen buttons.

If you have ever cared to read the OP properly, I stated that MS should be using a hybrid variant of Win10 which can output a desktop OS through HDMI when docked and run the normal ARM based OS when HDMI output isn't being used. This one is clearly for productive people. Not for the avg customer.

two brands with different level of recognition: you can't put a MICROSOFT flagship with an ASUS pricing

for a flagship, I couldn't care less about the specs as long as it runs better than normal and can hold updates for the next 2 or 3 years

seriously, 1080p, 3 GB RAM, with Snapdragon 805 is enough for me...
but definitely not for Average Joe out there who are mostly spec-blinded noob
My point was that, they could pack all of it and still price the device at 500-800$
 

cool8man

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I stated that MS should be using a hybrid variant of Win10 which can output a desktop OS through HDMI when docked and run the normal ARM based OS when HDMI output isn't being used. This one is clearly for productive people. Not for the avg customer.


My point was that, they could pack all of it and still price the device at 500-800$

You responded before my edit. I said: Docking is very niche and isn't really going to excite many people. You can dock 7" and 8" Atom tablets today, but how many people are tossing out their laptop or desktop for that solution or even their iPad. I'm not opposed to the idea as a feature, but I don't think it is a big selling point for the average person. The wow-factor isn't there because everyone already has a PC with a keyboard. Then there's the issues of performance and storage having to house full Windows 10 on a smartphone. A big expense for a feature most people won't even use or will only use in a pinch. I'm not against partnering with Intel in phones and making this a standard feature on those devices long term. It might be a good idea, but I don't believe it's a big selling point to most people. They've optimized Windows for ARM to run on Qualcomm chips, it would probably not be trivial to have to optimize for Intel and then support both platforms with updates going forward.
 

WNxAshik

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You responded before my edit. I said: Docking is very niche and isn't really going to excite many people. You can dock 7" and 8" Atom tablets today, but how many people are tossing out their laptop or desktop for that solution. I'm not opposed to the idea as a feature, but I don't think it is a big selling point for the average person. The wow-factor isn't there because everyone already has a PC with a keyboard.

It could be a hit in the enterprise sector. I mean BYOD is catching on like a plague in this sector. And that is the reason I Suggested 2 variants, one for the normal guys, other for the productive ones.
 

Ashalinia

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It could be a hit in the enterprise sector. I mean BYOD is catching on like a plague in this sector. And that is the reason I Suggested 2 variants, one for the normal guys, other for the productive ones.

​I wouldn't mind this (having a separate device or device line with such features) but I'd like them to also preserve a line dedicated to general purpose flagships that are a bit more affordable.

​But there's really no need to call us stupid... we're just content with the quality and features of devices as is. The only time I wouldn't be content is when cool new features that sound applicable to my daily life are released that require better specs than my device has.
 

WNxAshik

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​I wouldn't mind this (having a separate device or device line with such features) but I'd like them to also preserve a line dedicated to general purpose flagships that are a bit more affordable.

​But there's really no need to call us stupid... we're just content with the quality and features of devices as is. The only time I wouldn't be content is when cool new features that sound applicable to my daily life are released that require better specs than my device has.

I wouldn't call you stupid, but do read older comments and look at the stuff that others are posting.
 

colinkiama

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Snapdragon 810, 41mp camera, 5 inch 2k screen,sd card support and that's it Microsoft.


Sent from my awesome Lumia 735
 
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Nadia bruce

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I was thinking that MS should release 2 flagships like the Surface series.
There should be 2 variants:
The Standard One:
Qualcomm SD 810 OctaCore 64-bit processor
32GB onboard storage
20MP camera and 5/8MP selfie cam
3/4GB of RAM
5" FHD/QHD Display(1080p/2k)
3050mAH Battery with Quickcharge 2.0
An evolved design from Lumia 930

The Revolutionary Pro One:
Intel Atom Quadcore 64-bit or an ULV i5/i3 series processor (x86 architecture).
64GB onboard storage
20MP primary cam and 8MP selfie cam
4/8GB of RAM
5.5/6" QHD Display(2k)
4080mAH Battery
An evolved design from Surface Pro 3.
MicroHDMI 2.0 support with output to 4k.
Now the Revolutionary side:
Since the device runs on x86, the device should be running a modded desktop/phone hybrid variant of Windows10. I mean when you use is as a phone, it runs on the phone UI. But If you give an output via HDMI, and connect a keyboard and mouse via Bluetooth or a dock, the device gives an output as a fully capable desktop OS, able to run legacy apps. The desktop variant will be in sync the phone apps and tasks.

It should be the merger of the gap between desktops and mobile devices. It will bring in a new era of devices where portability and productivity is in harmony.

If MS would ever do something like this, They would make windows10 an even cooler experience. And since the pro variant runs on x86, we could finally stream xbox one games onto it.

Comment your thoughts on it.

But what to do with enough power on windows phone...do we have worth games....its just like an alienware 18 with Mac os.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
 

manicottiK

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I completely agree with you, anything more than 326 ppi density is useless. But considering that android flags with 2k display isn't hogging battery(thnx to 810's 4 low power cores), I don't think MS should leave the display specs to yesteryear's best.
A number of years ago, Panasonic decided to have one product buck the meaningless trend toward higher and higher megapixel sensors and instead product a camera with really good optics. The Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX1 camera was amazing because it had only 8 megapixels and really good lenses. The new LX100 has just 13 megapixels with a large 4/3" sensor and more good lenses. That's 62% more pixels, but 450% more sensor area, letting each photoreceptor take in much more light. Some specs are worth fighting for, some are not.

Let Microsoft declare that the general "higher is better" specs race is stupid. I want Microsoft to focus on the things that matter in producing a really good smartphone. If humans don't need more than 1920x1080 in 5", don't put it in a phone. If the phone won't really benefit from 4GB RAM, don't put it in a phone. If those 8 cores reduce battery life without improving utility, don't put them in a phone, but if they do improve utility, keep them in. Give users a smaller/thinner, longer-lasting product that's cheaper and works better than what everyone else is selling.
 

Wilbur Schitzel

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I think you're on the right track, but Windows Phone has never been about having the best specs just so a victory flag can be raised for a month or two.

That said, I'd love a hybrid phone that could turn into a desktop with miracast to a monitor and wireless Bluetooth keyboard. But we aren't quite there yet. Nobody wants a phone with a short battery life. Real world numbers are not matching what Intel is claiming for their most efficient chips. One day...but not today.
 

luke_f

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Guys, you do realize that a full desktop windows version will consume about 20GB of HDD space, right? Plus, it uses a whole lot more CPU power all the time, for all those background processes a phone does not even have (on purpose). It would be a total waste of HDD space and resources to try to run this on a phone. Even though there have been big improvements, Windows still eats quite a lot of resources. Just compare battery lifetime on a Macbook to the same device running Windows. When running Windows, the battery life drops at least 30%, compared to what it has on OSX. And then there is the Intel CPU that is also much less efficient, compared to the highly optimized ARM cores.

Not saying that this would not be cool. But it's not going to happen, for various reasons.
 

CJ Thunder

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I was thinking that MS should release 2 flagships like the Surface series.
There should be 2 variants:
The Standard One:
Qualcomm SD 810 OctaCore 64-bit processor
32GB onboard storage
20MP camera and 5/8MP selfie cam
3/4GB of RAM
5" FHD/QHD Display(1080p/2k)
3050mAH Battery with Quickcharge 2.0
An evolved design from Lumia 930

The Revolutionary Pro One:
Intel Atom Quadcore 64-bit or an ULV i5/i3 series processor (x86 architecture).
64GB onboard storage
20MP primary cam and 8MP selfie cam
4/8GB of RAM
5.5/6" QHD Display(2k)
4080mAH Battery
An evolved design from Surface Pro 3.
MicroHDMI 2.0 support with output to 4k.
Now the Revolutionary side:
Since the device runs on x86, the device should be running a modded desktop/phone hybrid variant of Windows10. I mean when you use is as a phone, it runs on the phone UI. But If you give an output via HDMI, and connect a keyboard and mouse via Bluetooth or a dock, the device gives an output as a fully capable desktop OS, able to run legacy apps. The desktop variant will be in sync the phone apps and tasks.

It should be the merger of the gap between desktops and mobile devices. It will bring in a new era of devices where portability and productivity is in harmony.

If MS would ever do something like this, They would make windows10 an even cooler experience. And since the pro variant runs on x86, we could finally stream xbox one games onto it.

Comment your thoughts on it.

The pro is exactly what I want. Throw in a gpu booster, ssd, dock work station. Boom.
 

Elitis

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Guys, you do realize that a full desktop windows version will consume about 20GB of HDD space, right? Plus, it uses a whole lot more CPU power all the time, for all those background processes a phone does not even have (on purpose). It would be a total waste of HDD space and resources to try to run this on a phone. Even though there have been big improvements, Windows still eats quite a lot of resources. Just compare battery lifetime on a Macbook to the same device running Windows. When running Windows, the battery life drops at least 30%, compared to what it has on OSX. And then there is the Intel CPU that is also much less efficient, compared to the highly optimized ARM cores.

Not saying that this would not be cool. But it's not going to happen, for various reasons.

That's more because Apple controls almost everything that goes into a Macbook and can optimize them extremely well. Windows can run on a lot of different configurations, all made by and reliant on several different manufacturers, which makes it extremely difficult to optimize efficiently. Also, Intel CPUs aren't exactly less efficient than ARM CPUs. Processors using RISC don't have nearly as good performance as CISC processors do, so naturally battery life is better. So, you can't really compare Windows and Mac OS X, or x86 and ARM in either cases.

For everyone wanting a Pocket PC, you guys should really check out Ubuntu Touch. It does exactly what you guys are talking about. Its as close to a dockable Windows Phone with desktop-computer specs as we're going to get for a while.
 

luke_f

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That's more because Apple controls almost everything that goes into a Macbook and can optimize them extremely well.
I do not agree. Apple has put a lot of work into their latest OS to help with power efficiency, and these tricks have nothing to do with the specific hardware. They were more efficient than Windows before, and with OSX Maverick they made one more huge step forward, adding ~30% more battery lifetime. Most of this comes through what is called "time coalescing". Usually the CPU is constantly woken up from sleep mode by the dozens background processes which all run on their own update timers. Now OSX "batches" these updates, to run a lot of them at once, and then go back to sleep. So both CPU, GPU and IO system / HDD can remain in sleep mode for a much longer time, which saves a lot of power (constantly waking up and putting the CPU back to sleep is really bad for the efficiency). This is a very clever strategy to reduce idle power usage and works very well with the latest Intel CPUs. Additionally, they drastically reduce resources for processes that are minimized or in the background (they even check transparency to power down windows that are hidden). This saves a lot of resources as well. Then there is RAM compression as, saving IO and thus resources when paging out memory to HDD. I think these were the three big areas of improvements to an already very efficient OSX. Some pretty clever tricks if you ask me. The same tricks could be used by Windows as well, they are not bound to specific hardware. But they are not used in Windows, not right now. I do not have a Mac and I am definitely not an Apple ******. But I am impressed by some aspects of their systems. OS efficiency is one of these areas. I really hope that MSFT will start working on that area again, once they have Windows 10 out...
 

bijak_riyandi

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This thread alive again?
I've put some thoughts about this matter and I think these factors will hinder phones running full Windows 10:

1. Heat and battery
Phones are usually bad in managing heat. Plus, running full Windows will make it worse. Even worse if you put up an nVidia or ATI GPU.
And it's also worth noting that heat kills battery faster.

2. Price
Imagine how much "the Revolutionary Pro" with all that specs would be priced? My guess is it'll be more than USD 2k.
With current condition of Windows Phone market share, it's very hard to see this phone selling well with that price tag.
And that means more and more money loss for Microsoft...

Not to mention that you need the extra docking station and/or a monitor to make use of the PC. Ain't nobody got time (and money) for that?

3. Comfort
Firstly, it's a phone. You won't plug it into a monitor or put it in the docking station for the majority of times.
Then we will see the big wasted money-burner which is an x86 phone that will only be used as a PC for less than one-eighth of its usage time.

Using a dock for a 6" phone sounds retarded. Even worse if it were 5.5". And with QHD resolution, you're going to have a bad time seeing letters in that screen.
What legacy apps you want to see in a 6" monitor? None.

We can all dream, but honestly I can't see this kind of device hit the market in the next 4 years...
 

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