02-24-2011 02:36 PM
32 12
tools
  1. Verizon Hopeful's Avatar
    Did anyone read the PC World article: Verizon and Motorola Execs Give Thumbs-down to Windows Phone 7 - PCWorld?

    Some strong words from Verizon. On one hand I kind of understand Verizon's point about WP7 as a struggling platform; despite all of Microsoft's statements, I think it was a huge marketing blunder not to have Verizon and Sprint phones available at the roll-out last year. On the other hand, I am concerned about Verizon's statements becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, simply because they don't seem to have invested sufficient effort in the platform and they haven't given buyers any hints that anything other than a mediocre class WP7 phone will be available when CDMA WP7 phones finally are available.

    Ultimately, there really needs to be legal changes in the mobile phone industry. The carriers have far too much influence over the devices consumers can purchase. All I want the carriers to do is to provide the service. No more, no less. After that, I (along with handset manufacturers) will decide what phone I carry and what features are on it. The way it is right now, the carriers have a stifling, chilling influence on the marketplace and that needs to stop.
    02-18-2011 09:39 PM
  2. ninjaap's Avatar
    I think there may have been some sort of deal to keep WP7 out of VZW. What possible reason would another platform have a negative effect on a carrier? All they have to do is put it out there and let WP7 sell themselves.
    02-18-2011 11:06 PM
  3. Averry's Avatar
    Well, they have the Palm Pre 2 right now for crying out loud.......and anyone who thinks RIM in its current state can compete with Blackberry long term is an *****.

    Even RIM knows that, it's why they bought "The Amazing Tribe".
    02-18-2011 11:41 PM
  4. spitothec's Avatar
    Pardon the derail -

    Well, they have the Palm Pre 2 right now for crying out loud.......and anyone who thinks RIM in its current state can compete with Blackberry long term is an *****
    There are only three things that can kill RIM -

    1. They take this touchscreen thing they're on too far. The Torch is about as "touchy" as a Blackberry can be and still feel like a Blackberry. I think they're headed in the right direction with the Magnum.

    2. Email dies. If something amazing comes along and no one ever needs to type full sentences on a mobile device ever again, Blackberry is dead. As long as people need mobile phones that they can type full paragraphs on, nothing is going to kill RIM. They'll lose marketshare, but that's only because the other companies are growing at such rapid paces.. their annual sales are still looking great.

    3. They stop caring about security. They're the most secure phones on the planet, and every major corporation knows this. That's why they issue them out like underwear to their higher ups. You can break into an iPhone now in 6 minutes. No company in their right mind would find that to be acceptable for any type of corporate use, and it's terrifying that our gov't considers that acceptable.

    - and now back to your regularly scheduled VZW slander.
    02-19-2011 07:29 AM
  5. Averry's Avatar
    Pardon the derail -



    There are only three things that can kill RIM -

    1. They take this touchscreen thing they're on too far. The Torch is about as "touchy" as a Blackberry can be and still feel like a Blackberry. I think they're headed in the right direction with the Magnum.

    2. Email dies. If something amazing comes along and no one ever needs to type full sentences on a mobile device ever again, Blackberry is dead. As long as people need mobile phones that they can type full paragraphs on, nothing is going to kill RIM. They'll lose marketshare, but that's only because the other companies are growing at such rapid paces.. their annual sales are still looking great.

    3. They stop caring about security. They're the most secure phones on the planet, and every major corporation knows this. That's why they issue them out like underwear to their higher ups. You can break into an iPhone now in 6 minutes. No company in their right mind would find that to be acceptable for any type of corporate use, and it's terrifying that our gov't considers that acceptable.

    - and now back to your regularly scheduled VZW slander.
    Android and WP7 phones have keyboard options. Kids these days grow up on software keyboards by the way....they wont' care. In five years, every kid that's 12 now will be 17 and not think twice about using a software keyboard.

    Also, it's obvious that the consumer market is filtering back into the corporate systems...and if RIM's last bastion of hope is selling only to CEO's....then eventually Microsoft, Apple, and Google will just keep tightening the noose.

    Again, why do you think RIM bought "The Amazing Tribe". RIM doesn't have the ecosystem the big three have either....it's dead meat in the consumer space.
    02-19-2011 12:47 PM
  6. gibbyhome's Avatar
    Why is WP7 Not on Verizon yet ? and why is the CEO of Verizon bad mouthing WP7,
    I beleave the real reasons are as follows
    1 the NoDo update has been completed for 2 months now and the carriers are blocking it for their own "testing" "IE ATT" and microsoft is not going to release a fragmented OS so they will not release the OS until it can go on ALL Phones, Verizon just got the Iphone and this is a Slap at Verizon from ATT draging the release of the NoDo update ...

    now the CTO slaps WP7 becase one the Kin problems and 2 I'm sure they are not happy with the dragging of the feet of releaseing the NoDO update and I'm suire blames Microsoft..
    Remember carriers like fragmentation because it causes end users to buy phones before their contracts are up...

    Carriers Must Stop blocking updates Let Microsoft Do the Testing and let any problems fall on them...
    02-19-2011 03:19 PM
  7. Averry's Avatar
    Why is WP7 Not on Verizon yet ? and why is the CEO of Verizon bad mouthing WP7,
    I beleave the real reasons are as follows
    1 the NoDo update has been completed for 2 months now and the carriers are blocking it for their own "testing" "IE ATT" and microsoft is not going to release a fragmented OS so they will not release the OS until it can go on ALL Phones, Verizon just got the Iphone and this is a Slap at Verizon from ATT draging the release of the NoDo update ...

    now the CTO slaps WP7 becase one the Kin problems and 2 I'm sure they are not happy with the dragging of the feet of releaseing the NoDO update and I'm suire blames Microsoft..
    Remember carriers like fragmentation because it causes end users to buy phones before their contracts are up...

    Carriers Must Stop blocking updates Let Microsoft Do the Testing and let any problems fall on them...
    I'd love to see Microsoft get the phone out on Sprint with the update, and light a fire under AT&T's and T-Mobile's asses.

    That said, my Incredible has Android 2.3...and I'm fairly certain Verizon will never give the Incredible 2.3.
    02-19-2011 06:17 PM
  8. Verizon Hopeful's Avatar
    That said, my Incredible has Android 2.3...and I'm fairly certain Verizon will never give the Incredible 2.3.
    I think that's part of my point with the carriers having too much influence. The 2.3 version of the Android OS should not be hindered in any way by Verizon. So how did you obtain the 2.3 version of Android?
    02-19-2011 08:06 PM
  9. Verizon Hopeful's Avatar
    I think there may have been some sort of deal to keep WP7 out of VZW. What possible reason would another platform have a negative effect on a carrier? All they have to do is put it out there and let WP7 sell themselves.
    The "negative effect on a carrier" might be as simple as Verizon making a deal with Apple to put their full marketing force behind Apple's iPhone for a specified period of time. If during that time, Verizon is perceived as highlighting another phone to the iPhone's detriment (steering customers toward Android, for example), then Apple could legitimately accuse Verizon of contractual non-performance.

    As a real example of this, it was quite clear when the BlackBerry Storm first came out that Verizon was putting the full weight of their marketing efforts behind that phone for a short time. That deal sucked the air out of any potential Windows Mobile phone marketing efforts (it took forever to get Verizon to release the HTC Touch Pro 2.

    But, I really agree with you that all Verizon has to do is to put WP7 phones out there and see if consumers will buy them. At least give us the option. Is that asking too much?
    02-19-2011 08:20 PM
  10. Averry's Avatar
    I think that's part of my point with the carriers having too much influence. The 2.3 version of the Android OS should not be hindered in any way by Verizon. So how did you obtain the 2.3 version of Android?

    It's rooted with a custom rom. Pretty much stock Gingerbread.
    02-20-2011 01:01 AM
  11. Averry's Avatar
    They are coming to Verizon. Verizon, like you said, is just notorious for waiting for ever to actually put phones out. I remember waiting for about 3 months of the Incredible leaking until they finally announced it only a week before it came out. They haven't officially announced the Xoom tablet, the HTC Thunderbolt, and the Droid 2 leaked out about 70 times before they announced it.

    They basically pull everything string they can to get you to buy a new phone before they release one on top of you.

    My friend is desperate for a new phone, and I'm just begging him to wait for ANYTHING else besides what's out right now. But it sucks because I can't tell him for sure if it'll be 2 weeks, or 2 months.
    02-20-2011 01:10 AM
  12. VZWSX's Avatar
    I just can't believe VZW's ambuiguity. One week they say they are ready to put out a WIN 7 phone, the next week they are saying they don't need it. I can't believe someone in the marketing dept doesn't come up with a consistent message regarding WIN 7. I have been on Verizon for over 10 years and I appreciate their cust serv people and the network. But how corporate handles new devices really suck. I really agree with "Verizon Hopeful" that carriers need to be taken out of the handset equation. I don't think that will ever happen ... but we can hope.
    02-21-2011 03:17 PM
  13. cdook's Avatar
    I think there may have been some sort of deal to keep WP7 out of VZW. What possible reason would another platform have a negative effect on a carrier? All they have to do is put it out there and let WP7 sell themselves.
    Only thing I can think of is they'd have to spend money on developing VCast, VZNavigator and all the other V apps for a new platform. Other than that I can't see why they wouldn't want to give the user more choice. I'd still be with Verizon today if they had a WP7 phone available. Instead I bit the bullet, payed the cancellation charges and switched to AT&T. Hate to say it, but if AT&T can get the iPhone and WP7 phones first, then they have a good track record with new hardware.
    02-21-2011 10:08 PM
  14. Verizon Hopeful's Avatar
    Only thing I can think of is they'd have to spend money on developing VCast, VZNavigator and all the other V apps for a new platform.
    I would be interested in finding out exactly how many smartphone customers really use or even purchase those carrier applications. I'll bet the numbers are quite low. For example, while Verizon did have VZNavigator available for purchase on the Windows Mobile platform, they never offered VCast. Oddly enough, I wanted them to offer VCast for my Touch Pro 2 but I never once thought seriously about getting VZNavigator. My mapping choice has been Google Maps and I never needed turn by turn guidance to find anything.

    Typically, I look for "best of breed" applications for my devices and generally, carrier apps are not even competitive. If I could give Verizon advice on those apps, I would tell them to put their resources into something else (other than software apps) that improves aspects of their service. I'll look to ISV applications for software I want to use, thank you.
    02-21-2011 11:48 PM
  15. Averry's Avatar
    It's especially stupid to assume anyone would use VZ Navigator on an Android phone...or WP7 for that matter since both have free Nav.

    But.....the Incredible didn't have VZ Navigator for quite some time when it launched..so they may always just launch it later.
    02-22-2011 01:51 PM
  16. wheelerk's Avatar
    Why is WP7 Not on Verizon yet ? and why is the CEO of Verizon bad mouthing WP7,
    I beleave the real reasons are as follows
    1 the NoDo update has been completed for 2 months now and the carriers are blocking it for their own "testing" "IE ATT" and microsoft is not going to release a fragmented OS so they will not release the OS until it can go on ALL Phones, Verizon just got the Iphone and this is a Slap at Verizon from ATT draging the release of the NoDo update ...

    now the CTO slaps WP7 becase one the Kin problems and 2 I'm sure they are not happy with the dragging of the feet of releaseing the NoDO update and I'm suire blames Microsoft..
    Remember carriers like fragmentation because it causes end users to buy phones before their contracts are up...

    Carriers Must Stop blocking updates Let Microsoft Do the Testing and let any problems fall on them...
    ATT blocking an update doesn't prevent other carriers from releasing it. If Verizon wants, then its there they can start fielding phones now. I know my Verizon friends don't want to here this, but WP7 doesn't need Verizon to be sucessful. And it surely doesn't need Motorola. The iPhone is very sucessful and it went almost 4 years with only ATT.
    02-22-2011 02:17 PM
  17. Averry's Avatar
    ATT blocking an update doesn't prevent other carriers from releasing it. If Verizon wants, then its there they can start fielding phones now. I know my Verizon friends don't want to here this, but WP7 doesn't need Verizon to be sucessful. And it surely doesn't need Motorola. The iPhone is very sucessful and it went almost 4 years with only ATT.

    A. Microsoft doesn't want a fragmented phone environment. So yes....because of Microsofts behavior...it does prevent Microsoft from releasing the update.

    B. Verizon is the largest carrier in America...with some 93 million subscribers. It most definitely needs Verizon.....more customers...means means more developers...means momentum....means it's a viable option.

    Windows Phone is not the iPhone.....it's 3 years late to the party and only launched in direct competition with the iPhone on AT&T, and on the smallest carrier in America.

    It'll probably fair decently on Sprint, but they already got beat by the iPhone to even get on Verizon.
    02-22-2011 06:54 PM
  18. wheelerk's Avatar
    Most of the mobile world is on GSM...So it was very wise for M$ to address that market first. Also, according to this article, ATT has a larger market share. Its almost a year old but I'm sure its still valid. And your right, WP7 is not the iPhone, it is a much better platform. It new, fresh, dynamic and data centric. It not an static application launcher like the iphone and android. WP7 will be bringing new features that the others can only dream of.

    http://technology.gather.com/viewArt...81474978372028
    02-22-2011 07:36 PM
  19. Averry's Avatar
    Most of the mobile world is on GSM...So it was very wise for M$ to address that market first. Also, according to this article, ATT has a larger market share. Its almost a year old but I'm sure its still valid. And your right, WP7 is not the iPhone, it is a much better platform. It new, fresh, dynamic and data centric. It not an static application launcher like the iphone and android. WP7 will be bringing new features that the others can only dream of.

    Verizon gaining market share on AT&T | Gather
    Holy smokes you're drinking the kool-ade

    Sprint- 49.9 million subscribers

    T-Mobile- 33.8 million

    AT&T 95.5 million

    Verizon 94.1 million

    Just because you or I love WP7 doesn't mean that the average person is going to be so compelled to buy it.

    Get realistic.
    02-23-2011 01:09 AM
  20. GP07's Avatar
    US marketshare aside his point about most of the mobile world using GSM is a fact. I'd rather you don't overlook the UK/EU and other parts and only think of the US who's pretty behind when it comes to the cellphone market anyways.
    02-23-2011 04:20 AM
  21. spitothec's Avatar
    US marketshare aside his point about most of the mobile world using GSM is a fact. I'd rather you don't overlook the UK/EU and other parts and only think of the US who's pretty behind when it comes to the cellphone market anyways.
    iOS, Android, WP7, webOS, and partially Meego are all American-owned OS's. How is the US "pretty behind"? Even RIM's BBOS is coded and built a few hours from us. Honestly curious as to what the UK/EU people have that we haven't heard about. The only thing I can think of is Symbian which, despite it's huge marketshare, is now a vegetable on life support..
    02-23-2011 08:14 AM
  22. TiLoBrown's Avatar
    iOS, Android, WP7, webOS, and partially Meego are all American-owned OS's. How is the US "pretty behind"? Even RIM's BBOS is coded and built a few hours from us. Honestly curious as to what the UK/EU people have that we haven't heard about. The only thing I can think of is Symbian which, despite it's huge marketshare, is now a vegetable on life support..
    He wasnt talking about OS types when he said the US is behind, hes talking about technology. And hes right, this is one of the few countries that supports CDMA I think, everywhere else its GSM.
    spitothec likes this.
    02-23-2011 09:02 AM
  23. wheelerk's Avatar
    US marketshare aside his point about most of the mobile world using GSM is a fact. I'd rather you don't overlook the UK/EU and other parts and only think of the US who's pretty behind when it comes to the cellphone market anyways.
    Agreed! And thats why WP7 can thrive without Verizon. Sprint is releasing the HTC Pro 7 tomorrow. If Verizon wants to ride the MotoAndroid to the bottom of the sea, then so be it. Microsoft is positioning itself to make a huge surge in the mobile smartphone market. That started with WP7 and GSM networks. Look at the ecosystem that they are setting up. Look at the new features and integration that is coming to WP7. I think the sleeping giant has awaken. Some of may doubt it because its not happening as fast as you would like. Your looking for a Blitzkrieg. Its not going to happen like that. Microsoft is massing the troops and moving everything into place. A steady buildup of new features and data centric integration. Thats one of there strong points. There are so many areas that microsoft has were they can integrate WP7. What does the compititon have as far as integration? Nothing! Thats why their platforms are basically application launcher.

    Oh, and its not the Kool-aid, though it is sweet ;-)....Its the potential I see in this new and very fresh Metro UI. :-)
    02-23-2011 10:13 AM
  24. Averry's Avatar
    Agreed! And thats why WP7 can thrive without Verizon. Sprint is releasing the HTC Pro 7 tomorrow. If Verizon wants to ride the MotoAndroid to the bottom of the sea, then so be it. Microsoft is positioning itself to make a huge surge in the mobile smartphone market. That started with WP7 and GSM networks. Look at the ecosystem that they are setting up. Look at the new features and integration that is coming to WP7. I think the sleeping giant has awaken. Some of may doubt it because its not happening as fast as you would like. Your looking for a Blitzkrieg. Its not going to happen like that. Microsoft is massing the troops and moving everything into place. A steady buildup of new features and data centric integration. Thats one of there strong points. There are so many areas that microsoft has were they can integrate WP7. What does the compititon have as far as integration? Nothing! Thats why their platforms are basically application launcher.

    Oh, and its not the Kool-aid, though it is sweet ;-)....Its the potential I see in this new and very fresh Metro UI. :-)

    LTE is has been deemed the next global standard (and LTE is actually a closer evolution to CDMA than GSM) and Verizon will have the first US nationwide LTE network.

    The United States is Microsoft's market, the market where Zune is the most successful (if not simply the most available) Xbox and Xbox live are most successful.

    If you think Microsoft doesn't even need a presence on a network with access to what soon will be 100 million people who have access to RIM, iPhone, WebOS, and Android, then you're crazy.

    Seriously, this thing needs all of the help it can get. It's virtually non existent in public opinion.

    By the way, up until perhaps 2 months from now, there isn't even real GSM in the entire middle of the country. From rural Texas all the way up to Montana and North Dakota (where I live) you can't buy T-Mobile or AT&T. There's roaming support...but they won't sell you a device and you get now 3G.

    Look at what Verizon did for Android.....it basically birthed it into this world.....without Verizon....Android wouldn't be anywhere near where it was.
    02-23-2011 11:25 AM
  25. TiLoBrown's Avatar
    By the way, up until perhaps 2 months from now, there isn't even real GSM in the entire middle of the country. From rural Texas all the way up to Montana and North Dakota (where I live) you can't buy T-Mobile or AT&T. There's roaming support...but they won't sell you a device and you get now 3G.
    Really? Thats odd because I have friends in that region that's used AT&T for years...
    02-23-2011 02:52 PM
32 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD