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03-12-2011 09:48 PM
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  1. action_efn_jackson's Avatar
    Apple has a much different situation than MS because Apple only has to update one brand of phone (theirs). And as he mentioned in the blog/rant, iOS is a more mature platform and have more time and ability to work on minor updates.
    Not to mention only 1 carrier as well.
    03-09-2011 11:31 AM
  2. kalldrexx's Avatar
    Not to mention only 1 carrier as well.
    2 carriers as of a month ago.
    03-09-2011 12:31 PM
  3. TheWeeBear's Avatar
    03-09-2011 01:32 PM
  4. action_efn_jackson's Avatar
    2 carriers as of a month ago.
    Yes, but the point is when iOS first rolled out 4 years ago updates were not as complex.
    03-09-2011 01:34 PM
  5. action_efn_jackson's Avatar
    "Microsoft (France)" being WP7 was launched in EU before the US think we will behind them?
    03-09-2011 01:37 PM
  6. TheWeeBear's Avatar
    Your guess is as good as mine 'Mon Ami!'
    03-09-2011 01:41 PM
  7. onemadrssn's Avatar
    At the moment I am eager to buy the HTC Arrive as soon as it's available. Even though it will already come with NoDo, I am beginning to become skeptical. This whole scenario reminds me way too much of how HP/Palm handled webOS.

    Show off awesome update and coming features without any set dates or release specifics > delay > delay > fail > delay some more

    The next logical step is to announce that all current devices are now obsolete (because they are by the time the update is actually ready and working) and say that the new features will only be available on new devices.


    All kidding aside, this is a bit worrying. I was kind of hoping wp7 would be the anti-android; the other non-apple OS that had regularly scheduled and good updates.
    03-09-2011 02:12 PM
  8. kalldrexx's Avatar
    At the moment I am eager to buy the HTC Arrive as soon as it's available. Even though it will already come with NoDo, I am beginning to become skeptical. This whole scenario reminds me way too much of how HP/Palm handled webOS.

    Show off awesome update and coming features without any set dates or release specifics > delay > delay > fail > delay some more

    The next logical step is to announce that all current devices are now obsolete (because they are by the time the update is actually ready and working) and say that the new features will only be available on new devices.


    All kidding aside, this is a bit worrying. I was kind of hoping wp7 would be the anti-android; the other non-apple OS that had regularly scheduled and good updates.
    Like someone told me in another thread, evaluate WP7 as it is now (or for you, as it is with NoDo since the Arrive will have that). If WP7 *at that time* feels good to you and fits your needs then get it and don't worry about updates, as when they come they will come. If you like WP7 as it is when you evaluate it, then any updates and added functionality is nothing more than a bonus.

    If you are really hung up on the potential and the possibilities of the updates later this year then don't get WP7 or else you will be setting yourself up for disappointment. Not because I believe MS will screw this up (I think this will get them to get their act together) but because there's always the possibility the potential you saw won't form into reality the way you want it to, and then will still be disappointed.
    03-09-2011 03:27 PM
  9. spitothec's Avatar
    A pretty crappy blog post. Apple has a much different situation than MS because Apple only has to update one brand of phone (theirs). Thus the comparison is a little unfair as MS also has to make sure the updates work on all (coughSAMSUNGcough) phones. And as he mentioned in the blog/rant, iOS is a more mature platform and have more time and ability to work on minor updates.
    Microsoft designed WP7 specifically to be the "one" OS that they could roll out updates as needed, carriers and manufacturers aside.. and the fact that they've choked this bad just shows how much they really don't get it. Apple releases updates for iOS on a monthly, sometimes BI-monthly basis, and was updating even more frequently when the OS was first launched. They didn't have to deal with AT&T, so why does Microsoft? Because Microsoft doesn't get it. Apple doesn't have to deal with manufacturers, so why does Microsoft? Because Microsoft doesn't get it.

    This is the single biggest thing that's hurting Android right now, Microsoft has known that since they started this whole WP7 thing, and they STILL managed to screw up the update process and timeframe worse than ANY other mobile OS on the market. For me to be able to sit here and say that Android's update procedures and frequency are far superior to WP7's should strike fear in everyone. It's one of the absolute worst things that could happen to this OS, and MS shows zero signs of care or urgency.

    iOS is a more mature platform because it's updated. How is WP7 supposed to ever mature if we get two updates a year? iOS will sometimes drop two updates in a WEEK, RIM leaks an OS of some sort what seems like every damn day, and I'm hoping we all know the Google story.

    I'm not trying to defend Apple or bash Microsoft, but that's just a point blank, realistic look at the situation, and anyone that thinks WP7 will ever be able to contend with Apple or Google with this kind of support is blind.
    03-09-2011 05:08 PM
  10. Luisraul924's Avatar
    If you like WP7 as it is when you evaluate it, then any updates and added functionality is nothing more than a bonus.
    [In the voice of Stan from American Dad with the non sensical seriousness tone to it]

    True, True, but bonuses are a good thing!... right? they are a good thing?
    03-09-2011 05:11 PM
  11. Luisraul924's Avatar
    Microsoft designed WP7 specifically to be the "one" OS that they could roll out updates as needed, carriers and manufacturers aside.. and the fact that they've choked this bad just shows how much they really don't get it. Apple releases updates for iOS on a monthly, sometimes BI-monthly basis, and was updating even more frequently when the OS was first launched. They didn't have to deal with AT&T, so why does Microsoft? Because Microsoft doesn't get it. Apple doesn't have to deal with manufacturers, so why does Microsoft? Because Microsoft doesn't get it.

    This is the single biggest thing that's hurting Android right now, Microsoft has known that since they started this whole WP7 thing, and they STILL managed to screw up the update process and timeframe worse than ANY other mobile OS on the market. For me to be able to sit here and say that Android's update procedures and frequency are far superior to WP7's should strike fear in everyone. It's one of the absolute worst things that could happen to this OS, and MS shows zero signs of care or urgency.

    iOS is a more mature platform because it's updated. How is WP7 supposed to ever mature if we get two updates a year? iOS will sometimes drop two updates in a WEEK, RIM leaks an OS of some sort what seems like every damn day, and I'm hoping we all know the Google story.

    I'm not trying to defend Apple or bash Microsoft, but that's just a point blank, realistic look at the situation, and anyone that thinks WP7 will ever be able to contend with Apple or Google with this kind of support is blind.
    Don't worry guys this is one of the "WP7 Hypocrites" I was talking about in other threads, claims to looove WP7 but, look at this post... I know some of this MIGHT be true but he refuses to look on the bright side. pessimist
    03-09-2011 05:19 PM
  12. cdook's Avatar
    @mgarcia I bought my WP7 for the features it had, not what Microsoft promised down the road. I've learned that a company can promise the moon, but what you buy is another story. I've bought products where they promise features down the road, which get delayed and then a new hardware revision comes out and that promised feature launches with the revision and your 1st Gen product never gets it.

    Point I'm trying to make is this... Is WP7 such a terrible platform? Are there any show stopper bugs or features you can't live without? I don't see IOS or Android offering anything better. And for the people jumping ship to Android for WP7's lack of updates... The grass isn't greener on the Android side of things.
    Luisraul924 likes this.
    03-09-2011 05:49 PM
  13. HeyCori's Avatar
    Microsoft designed WP7 specifically to be the "one" OS that they could roll out updates as needed, carriers and manufacturers aside.. and the fact that they've choked this bad just shows how much they really don't get it. Apple releases updates for iOS on a monthly, sometimes BI-monthly basis, and was updating even more frequently when the OS was first launched. They didn't have to deal with AT&T, so why does Microsoft? Because Microsoft doesn't get it. Apple doesn't have to deal with manufacturers, so why does Microsoft? Because Microsoft doesn't get it.
    Because Apple has the market share and a loyal enough fanbase to throw their weight around. MS, not so much.
    03-09-2011 06:12 PM
  14. dtboos's Avatar
    Because Apple has the market share and a loyal enough fanbase to throw their weight around. MS, not so much.
    To be fair, Apple didn't have an inordinate amount of "clout" as of the original iPhone launch. Especially concerning Cell Phones and related markets. Agreements where the carriers are not involved could have been done, and I think MS should have done it this way. We will see how the rest of the year plays out.
    03-09-2011 06:22 PM
  15. Averry's Avatar
    You can say this, or that, about what's fair or not.....

    But the fact of the matter is, Microsoft needs to be flawless. They launched way behind, while missing features. Everyone, even common Microsoft detractors gave them the benefit of the doubt because the OS has new ideas...but they don't get to botch it a few times when the competition is so strong.
    03-09-2011 07:08 PM
  16. action_efn_jackson's Avatar
    Please don't get mgarcia started unless you don't mind reading 17 paragraph replies. XD

    Sent from my htc Surround using Board Express
    gibbyhome likes this.
    03-09-2011 09:22 PM
  17. HeyCori's Avatar
    To be fair, Apple didn't have an inordinate amount of "clout" as of the original iPhone launch. Especially concerning Cell Phones and related markets. Agreements where the carriers are not involved could have been done, and I think MS should have done it this way. We will see how the rest of the year plays out.
    But Apple was also locked into a contract with ATT. Essentially you win some, you lose some. Apple was limited to one carrier even though they had the freedom to update iOS.
    03-09-2011 09:29 PM
  18. spitothec's Avatar
    Please don't get mgarcia started unless you don't mind reading 17 paragraph replies. XD

    Sent from my htc Surround using Board Express
    BRB, installing the fourth iOS update on my iPad since I've purchased my Focus.

    edit: LOL that one was only 8 sentences, is that too much for you? :)

    Don't worry guys this is one of the "WP7 Hypocrites" I was talking about in other threads, claims to looove WP7 but, look at this post... I know some of this MIGHT be true but he refuses to look on the bright side. pessimist
    I guess you could say that the reason my posts aren't sugar coated is because it's sickening seeing the amount of optimism displayed by WP7 lovers in the face of Microsoft essentially laughing at their (our) past and present misfortune and fear of the future. The percentage of people on this website that take blatant lies and miscommunication from a company they support and just brush it off is really, really weird to me. I can't say I see this from any other manufacturer's fanbase.. maybe WebOS a little? LOL
    Last edited by mgarcia; 03-09-2011 at 10:14 PM.
    NickA likes this.
    03-09-2011 10:07 PM
  19. onemadrssn's Avatar
    The argument of "buy this phone based on the features it has today, not eh features the company says it will have tomorrow" is a bit flawed. The flaw is that today the phones come very barebones out of the box, connected apps are all the rage, and APIs controlled by the company are what govern which apps will and will not work.

    For example: Shazaam does not work on webOS because Palm didn's allow apps access to the mic. They promised this access a long long time ago, but now will never delivered this Pre/Pixi phones. Yet Shazaam had every intention of releasing their app on webOS the entire time.

    Similar problems prevent Pandora from running on WP7 today, but API enhancements are promised. So what am I to believe? Will I or will I not be able to use Pandora?

    I'm not looking for any answers here I suppose, just venting. Either way, these considerations are why it is very difficult to evaluate a device based on how it is today.
    03-10-2011 09:22 AM
  20. cdook's Avatar
    The argument of "buy this phone based on the features it has today, not eh features the company says it will have tomorrow" is a bit flawed. The flaw is that today the phones come very barebones out of the box, connected apps are all the rage, and APIs controlled by the company are what govern which apps will and will not work.

    For example: Shazaam does not work on webOS because Palm didn's allow apps access to the mic. They promised this access a long long time ago, but now will never delivered this Pre/Pixi phones. Yet Shazaam had every intention of releasing their app on webOS the entire time.

    Similar problems prevent Pandora from running on WP7 today, but API enhancements are promised. So what am I to believe? Will I or will I not be able to use Pandora?

    I'm not looking for any answers here I suppose, just venting. Either way, these consideration are why it is very difficult to evaluate a device based on how it is today.


    I still don't think the argument is flawed. Companies are promising features and didn't deliver. When I bought my phone I knew Skype and Pandora weren't available. They have been promised, but I figured it could be a year later before these apps came out. If phone contracts are only 2 years is it really worth waiting when another device has the features you want?

    I hear you. I'm frustrated too although I don't think the grass is greener elsewhere.
    03-10-2011 10:04 AM
  21. kalldrexx's Avatar
    The argument of "buy this phone based on the features it has today, not eh features the company says it will have tomorrow" is a bit flawed. The flaw is that today the phones come very barebones out of the box, connected apps are all the rage, and APIs controlled by the company are what govern which apps will and will not work.

    For example: Shazaam does not work on webOS because Palm didn's allow apps access to the mic. They promised this access a long long time ago, but now will never delivered this Pre/Pixi phones. Yet Shazaam had every intention of releasing their app on webOS the entire time.

    Similar problems prevent Pandora from running on WP7 today, but API enhancements are promised. So what am I to believe? Will I or will I not be able to use Pandora?

    I'm not looking for any answers here I suppose, just venting. Either way, these considerations are why it is very difficult to evaluate a device based on how it is today.
    That's my point though. If you want a phone that can support Pandora, then you shouldn't be getting a WP7 phone based on the pretense that sometime in the future it *may* get Pandora. Just like if you like to use Shazam a lot (like I do), then WebOS isn't going to be a good phone for you even if it's support is promised in the future.

    If the phone doesn't suit you as it is right now, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment regardless of any promises a company (first or third party) makes. You shouldn't just disregard your personal preferences for hopes and dreams, because you will suffer in the current term and most likely suffer in the long terms when the promises don't pan out, or aren't up to your expectations.
    03-10-2011 10:17 AM
  22. wheelerk's Avatar
    Yeah, but it seems like the only ones who are suffering are the ones complaining. I'm happy with my focus. I've been using it since Nov 8th and I have not had any problems that prevent me from my day to day usage. Its not about promises and miscommunication from M$. Its about does the phone meet your needs. Bugs that are affecting the way you use the phone, I can see you voicing that. But how many times can you complain about it? Eventually they will get fixed. Missing features? Well, I have lived without most of them for 5 months now and it still has not prevented me from using the phone day to day.
    03-10-2011 10:43 AM
  23. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Who says it will be fixed eventually. Hell they may KIN the OS. If they say they are going to do something, then do it. I
    Yeah, but it seems like the only ones who are suffering are the ones complaining. I'm happy with my focus. I've been using it since Nov 8th and I have not had any problems that prevent me from my day to day usage. Its not about promises and miscommunication from M$. Its about does the phone meet your needs. Bugs that are affecting the way you use the phone, I can see you voicing that. But how many times can you complain about it? Eventually they will get fixed. Missing features? Well, I have lived without most of them for 5 months now and it still has not prevented me from using the phone day to day.
    03-10-2011 11:24 AM
  24. cdook's Avatar
    Who says it will be fixed eventually. Hell they may KIN the OS. If they say they are going to do something, then do it. I
    Haha I doubt they'd Kin the OS, but sales might influence how WP8 looks and behaves. I'm hoping the Metro style sticks around. It's sleek and easy to use.
    03-10-2011 04:07 PM
  25. Pete C's Avatar
    The argument of "buy this phone based on the features it has today, not eh features the company says it will have tomorrow" is a bit flawed. The flaw is that today the phones come very barebones out of the box, connected apps are all the rage, and APIs controlled by the company are what govern which apps will and will not work.

    For example: Shazaam does not work on webOS because Palm didn's allow apps access to the mic. They promised this access a long long time ago, but now will never delivered this Pre/Pixi phones. Yet Shazaam had every intention of releasing their app on webOS the entire time.

    Similar problems prevent Pandora from running on WP7 today, but API enhancements are promised. So what am I to believe? Will I or will I not be able to use Pandora?

    I'm not looking for any answers here I suppose, just venting. Either way, these considerations are why it is very difficult to evaluate a device based on how it is today.
    What is preventing Pandora from running on WP7? Where did you read that? Last.fm and Slacker are the same type of service, so I am having trouble buying that one.
    03-10-2011 05:22 PM
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