04-15-2011 08:39 PM
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  1. Luisraul924's Avatar
    in my opinion, there's nothing to praise it for yet. so much potential. today that pictures hub crashed on me. yesterday the Facebook app bugged out. there doesn't seem to be a single aspect of the phone that isn't deserving of criticism.

    how's this? the calculator on WP7 works flawlessly. there's a 50% positive post, can we be friends now?

    edit: @Rico I'll reply to you when I get to a computer, but yer comment on being too minimalist was a gross understatement.

    Really? Calculator? Mocking me it seems? Don't worry too much about being friends, there's time for that in short order because Microsoft is testing my patience... Heavily.
    03-19-2011 02:53 PM
  2. Rich Edmonds's Avatar
    While Thurrot has some valid points and puts forward arguments that I agree with, though the way he goes about things is completely wrong IMO. Sure, Microsoft have provided unbelievable transparency in the wrong way by providing almost no information at points whatsoever with what's happening. Their handling of the pre-NoDo update failures was questionable (it's okay for the non-affected but when your phone ceases to function and you require it for work and day-to-day usage, it's a pain) and their planned "two updates a year" is ridiculous for the amount of functions/features/bugs that need to be rectified to catch up with the competition.

    Microsoft may be new to the game with this platform (albeit they have experience with WM but WP7 is 'new') but in a post-iPhone era, majority of us expect more. We, the community, should go about this in the right way, organised threads on their forums (already being populated - but could be more in volume), express feedback/views/suggestions on their official social channels (we did a post about this a while back) and more patience.

    Ranting/moaning/complaining OTT will not change things, and some of us have to realise that (not saying any of you guys are doing this, just overall - I'm guilty too).
    spitothec likes this.
    03-19-2011 03:06 PM
  3. spitothec's Avatar
    Good post Rich. I can agree with most of that. I guess my only point would be that I really don't think it matters where we make ourselves heard, it isn't going to open Microsoft's eyes anytime soon. I get the feeling that ignoring their customer base is one of their core competencies. The vast change in their transparency level from before to after launch has been astonishing.. but that's my opinion and obviously the majority of the people on this site are perfectly happy being in complete darkness about what to expect.

    Really? Calculator? Mocking me it seems?
    LOL not exactly trying to, just pointing out that every aspect of the phone is currently flawed in one way or another. There's nothing that I feel comfortable praising, because nothing, in my opinion, is acceptable as the phone stands right now. It had the Pictures Hub going for it, and (no joke) as soon as I mentioned previously in this thread that the Pictures Hub was problem free, the social info pull aspect of it has now crashed twice and won't allow me to upload photos to Facebook without kicking an error back.
    03-19-2011 03:16 PM
  4. Rich Edmonds's Avatar
    This is true, I've voiced my opinion many times to their customer support and have either received nothing or little in response. Especially with the possibility of Zune coming to OS X, or at least implementing Marketplace search within the WP7 Connector so Mac users have the ability to click on app links etc. Damn that makes me feel so left out :(
    03-19-2011 03:25 PM
  5. HeyCori's Avatar
    While Thurrot has some valid points and puts forward arguments that I agree with, though the way he goes about things is completely wrong IMO. Sure, Microsoft have provided unbelievable transparency in the wrong way by providing almost no information at points whatsoever with what's happening. Their handling of the pre-NoDo update failures was questionable (it's okay for the non-affected but when your phone ceases to function and you require it for work and day-to-day usage, it's a pain) and their planned "two updates a year" is ridiculous for the amount of functions/features/bugs that need to be rectified to catch up with the competition.

    Microsoft may be new to the game with this platform (albeit they have experience with WM but WP7 is 'new') but in a post-iPhone era, majority of us expect more. We, the community, should go about this in the right way, organised threads on their forums (already being populated - but could be more in volume), express feedback/views/suggestions on their official social channels (we did a post about this a while back) and more patience.

    Ranting/moaning/complaining OTT will not change things, and some of us have to realise that (not saying any of you guys are doing this, just overall - I'm guilty too).
    I agree. MS' slow reaction and lack of communication about NoDo has been horrible. (though a share of the blame goes to tech sites who repeatedly offered unconfirmed release dates)

    That said, we live in an age where consumers don't know how to effectively communicate with a company. Armchair warriors much prefer to vent their frustrations on blogs and forums as opposed to doing something that would actually fix the problem.

    I have no problem with people getting their rage on, but there comes a point where you actually have to do something about the problem (even if the solution is to return the product). Speak directly to the manufacture, not just a random website. Watching someone rant, moan, complain, and troll a product gets tiresome. And if you think excessive trolling is "helping" a community, then you need to look at more positive ways to help.
    Rich Edmonds and gentry33 like this.
    03-19-2011 03:34 PM
  6. Averry's Avatar
    this post seems to counter-point mine, in which I can understand why you have that stance but I'm not exactly implying (I dont mean to at least) what your saying, all points you make are pretty solid. Where I'm at a loss is how mgarcia says he loves the OS but I haven't seen one post lately, not ONE, where he praises it, it's 100% negative. You're posts are more balanced, ranging from 70%/30% to 80%/20%; good/bad respectively.
    I can see where mgarcia and I look like cramugens on here.....but it's frustrating for us to voice concerns and have other members say that "maybe this isn't the OS for us". Then it just devolves from there.

    If I had to put a number on it, I've got to be in the top percentile of Microsoft fanboys. When I was 15, the first thing I spent my first paycheck in my life on was an original refurbished Xbox and a copy of Halo. I used Creative MP3 players as long as I could...the only iPod I owned was a 2nd gen touch....(cause lets be real...even by then it was the only thing on Earth that cool)....but I ditched it for the Zune HD......I dont' even consider buying Mac, it's just not my nature.

    I wouldn't waste my time sitting here on a forum if I wasn't extremely passionate about Microsoft's products and potential. I don't want to buy the phone and enjoy it despite that it is missing some key features. I'm an enthusiast...I sit and geek out about this **** all day long. I'm acutely aware of most of the features of the major OS's.......I follow numerous blogs and podcasts. When you listen to Engadget and Engadget Mobile...it sucks to hear them speak so well of WP7, but not even consider it as a personal every day phone because it lacks some key features. (Engadget as an example..because they cover the whole spectrum, I personally find them to be biased to quality..and the mobile guys are extremely excited about Mango and Nokia)

    I want Windows Phone to not have to be a compromise for anyone. It'll be hard enough for Windows Phone to penetrate the competitive market, but if it continues to narrow down its audience simply by virtue of having a lack of modern OS staples, than how fast can they expect it to grow?

    When NoDo eventually goes down, hopefully smoothly, then we can patiently wait for more good news. Google's going to announce something new this summer as well as Apple. In my eyes however, there will be constant pressure on Microsoft.....it's just that a failure to expedite this update has not lent itself to a spectacular future.

    Yes, I agree.....they should only release it when they know it will be done well. But it would have been far better if it had been done a month or two ago. The worst possible scenario is that it ends up being a consistent string of "too little, too late. "
    03-19-2011 06:09 PM
  7. Verizon Hopeful's Avatar
    in the meantime - apparently myself, averry, and paul thurrott are the only people that get it.
    @mgarcia: I think you can safely count me among the ranks of those people who get it.
    03-19-2011 08:05 PM
  8. Exomondo's Avatar
    in the meantime - apparently myself, averry, and paul thurrott are the only people that get it.
    unfortunately posting things like your list of 'bugs' (of which most are nothing of the sort) to justify your comment that the company, the OS and the firmware (not sure what you were referring to by 'the firmware' probably another misunderstanding of a common term) are 'broken' doesn't lend much to the idea that you 'get it'. There is a difference between criticism and whining. By your logic every platform out there is 'broken' as is the company that produced it.

    No WP7 is not perfect and no it doesn't have every possible feature, the good news is they are working on it, sure I - like pretty much everyone here - would like things to move faster but just like every single other platform out there this process takes time, most of us know this from experience.
    03-20-2011 11:01 PM
  9. Pete C's Avatar
    mgarcia I finally see what you meant about the lagging keyboard. I am typically not typing on many forms within IE, so I didn't notice it, but entering text on some input fields is horrible. Within the OS itself...Bing search, people hub, text messaging, email, etc...the keyboard is lag-free. However, on the internet in an input field it can sometimes not even respond to key presses.
    03-21-2011 09:50 AM
  10. Paul Acevedo's Avatar
    unfortunately posting things like your list of 'bugs' (of which most are nothing of the sort) to justify your comment that the company, the OS and the firmware (not sure what you were referring to by 'the firmware' probably another misunderstanding of a common term) are 'broken' doesn't lend much to the idea that you 'get it'. There is a difference between criticism and whining. By your logic every platform out there is 'broken' as is the company that produced it.

    No WP7 is not perfect and no it doesn't have every possible feature, the good news is they are working on it, sure I - like pretty much everyone here - would like things to move faster but just like every single other platform out there this process takes time, most of us know this from experience.
    It's got to be really frustrating for mGracia, Averry, and others to post extensive, detailed lists of concerns and to have them brushed away like you're doing. Shame on you.

    I can see where mgarcia and I look like cramugens on here.....but it's frustrating for us to voice concerns and have other members say that "maybe this isn't the OS for us". Then it just devolves from there.

    If I had to put a number on it, I've got to be in the top percentile of Microsoft fanboys. When I was 15, the first thing I spent my first paycheck in my life on was an original refurbished Xbox and a copy of Halo. I used Creative MP3 players as long as I could...the only iPod I owned was a 2nd gen touch....(cause lets be real...even by then it was the only thing on Earth that cool)....but I ditched it for the Zune HD......I dont' even consider buying Mac, it's just not my nature.

    I wouldn't waste my time sitting here on a forum if I wasn't extremely passionate about Microsoft's products and potential. I don't want to buy the phone and enjoy it despite that it is missing some key features. I'm an enthusiast...I sit and geek out about this **** all day long. I'm acutely aware of most of the features of the major OS's.......I follow numerous blogs and podcasts. When you listen to Engadget and Engadget Mobile...it sucks to hear them speak so well of WP7, but not even consider it as a personal every day phone because it lacks some key features. (Engadget as an example..because they cover the whole spectrum, I personally find them to be biased to quality..and the mobile guys are extremely excited about Mango and Nokia)

    I want Windows Phone to not have to be a compromise for anyone. It'll be hard enough for Windows Phone to penetrate the competitive market, but if it continues to narrow down its audience simply by virtue of having a lack of modern OS staples, than how fast can they expect it to grow?

    When NoDo eventually goes down, hopefully smoothly, then we can patiently wait for more good news. Google's going to announce something new this summer as well as Apple. In my eyes however, there will be constant pressure on Microsoft.....it's just that a failure to expedite this update has not lent itself to a spectacular future.

    Yes, I agree.....they should only release it when they know it will be done well. But it would have been far better if it had been done a month or two ago. The worst possible scenario is that it ends up being a consistent string of "too little, too late. "
    Excellent post. I completely agree.
    03-21-2011 05:51 PM
  11. Exomondo's Avatar
    It's got to be really frustrating for mGracia, Averry, and others to post extensive, detailed lists of concerns and to have them brushed away like you're doing. Shame on you.
    Things like bug reports are great for the platform and that's why using the msdn sites to communicate that sort of feedback is a great way to let the company know there are issues.

    But stuffing a 'bug list' full of feature requests just to pad it out in an effort to justify obviously inflammatory comments like the company is 'broken' or the product is 'broken' is not a productive way to deal with issues.

    No-one is saying it doesn't have issues and no-one is saying it is feature-complete, but many of us have experience with computing platforms enough to know that this is the case with EVERY SINGLE platform out there. You need to be patient, WP7 is in its infancy compared to the well-established platforms that have had years of a head-start.

    but it's frustrating for us to voice concerns and have other members say that "maybe this isn't the OS for us".
    And they're right, it obviously isn't - *yet* - I mean you don't have one because it doesn't have the features you need yet, it's the same as with every other infant platform. Your issues aren't with the core OS paradigms or anything like that, just with bugs or features so it likely will be the OS for you in the future. In the meantime by all means file bug reports and feature requests but then be patient and wait for them to fix/add them. It took the iphone an entire product refresh to get features we viewed as 'standard' because these things take time.

    Even on this forum there is a sticky for 'needed fixes', why don't you use it? And maybe there should be one for 'feature requests'?
    Last edited by exomondo; 03-21-2011 at 07:59 PM.
    03-21-2011 07:26 PM
  12. spitothec's Avatar
    things like bug reports are great for the platform and that's why using the msdn sites to communicate that sort of feedback is a great way to let the company know there are issues.
    ok.
    but stuffing a 'bug list' full of feature requests just to pad it out in an effort to justify obviously inflammatory comments like the company is 'broken' or the product is 'broken' is not a productive way to deal with issues.
    it is broken, and there is no productive way to deal with the issue, so this is how i want to handle it. If reading the truth about how microsoft is treating you is so inflammatory, perhaps you should stop reading my posts? I'm not sure what else to tell you, but I'm not going to apologize for being honest.
    no-one is saying it doesn't have issues and no-one is saying it is feature-complete, but many of us have experience with computing platforms enough to know that this is the case with every single platform out there. You need to be patient, wp7 is in its infancy compared to the well-established platforms that have had years of a head-start.
    i am saying that this is currently the least feature complete platform with the most issues, and i seem to be the very few saying that. We were promised updates when we purchased our phones. Never once did microsoft get up on a stage and say "you're going to have to be patient, it's going to take us a year to get the first two updates out". The fact that it is in it's infancy is what makes this so horrific. This os should be one of their top priorities, and if anyone on this website thinks that this os is one of microsoft's top priorities after the past 5 months, you should have your views on fanboyism evaluated.


    and they're right, it obviously isn't - *yet* - i mean you don't have one because it doesn't have the features you need yet, it's the same as with every other infant platform. Your issues aren't with the core os paradigms or anything like that, just with bugs or features so it likely will be the os for you in the future. In the meantime by all means file bug reports and feature requests but then be patient and wait for them to fix/add them. It took the iphone an entire product refresh to get features we viewed as 'standard' because these things take time.
    it's not the same with every other infant platform. Every other infant platform was patched and patched until the customers were actually complaining about too many patches. Again, patience is the exact opposite of what microsoft sold us, and still isn't selling us. They're still prancing around saying that updated this os is a core value or whatever, and i'm not quite sure how any of you don't find that as offensive as i do. They're lying to us, and most of you seem to be just fine with that.
    even on this forum there is a sticky for 'needed fixes', why don't you use it? And maybe there should be one for 'feature requests'?
    ok.
    03-22-2011 08:07 AM
  13. Rico's Avatar
    mgarcia I finally see what you meant about the lagging keyboard. I am typically not typing on many forms within IE, so I didn't notice it, but entering text on some input fields is horrible. Within the OS itself...Bing search, people hub, text messaging, email, etc...the keyboard is lag-free. However, on the internet in an input field it can sometimes not even respond to key presses.
    I've noticed that if the page is still loading and you type text in an input field in IE, the actual text input lags like crazy. This is a separate issue from the lagging keyboard, an issue which seems to be worst in the messaging app. The keyboard is one of the easiest and most responsive to type on, so when this issue crops up it's insanely annoying to me.
    03-22-2011 12:19 PM
  14. Averry's Avatar


    And they're right, it obviously isn't - *yet* - I mean you don't have one because it doesn't have the features you need yet, it's the same as with every other infant platform. Your issues aren't with the core OS paradigms or anything like that, just with bugs or features so it likely will be the OS for you in the future. In the meantime by all means file bug reports and feature requests but then be patient and wait for them to fix/add them. It took the iphone an entire product refresh to get features we viewed as 'standard' because these things take time.

    Even on this forum there is a sticky for 'needed fixes', why don't you use it? And maybe there should be one for 'feature requests'?

    Actually, I don't have one because it's not offered in my Zip code yet.

    But I was hoping that by the time Verizon got one...or AT&T was actually available in my area....that things would have progressed smoothly and excitingly...instead it seems to limping into my availability.

    But when I get one...I'll post a picture of myself licking it so you know I love it.
    03-22-2011 12:21 PM
  15. Exomondo's Avatar
    it is broken, and there is no productive way to deal with the issue, so this is how i want to handle it.
    Yes i know you keep saying that, unfortunately since it has no basis it is factually false. It is no more 'broken' than any other platform, of course you can't refute that and you'll continue to parade your bull**** all over the forums anyway.

    If reading the truth about how microsoft is treating you is so inflammatory, perhaps you should stop reading my posts? I'm not sure what else to tell you, but I'm not going to apologize for being honest.
    Using words that you clearly don't understand with no basis in order to describe the situation is not 'the truth'.

    i am saying that this is currently the least feature complete platform
    Least feature complete? On numbers, maybe, but it certainly has unique features, which is probably why you bought one.

    with the most issues and i seem to be the very few saying that.
    The most issues? I don't think so, your list of 'issues' barely clocked 1/2 a dozen actual issues. Go ahead and compare it to the amount of issues on iOS or Android or webOS...or are you making that claim without knowledge of those other platforms?

    We were promised updates when we purchased our phones. Never once did microsoft get up on a stage and say "you're going to have to be patient, it's going to take us a year to get the first two updates out".
    And no-one's saying you won't get updates. I know you're obviously new to all this but it does indeed take time and you do need to be patient even if the company doesn't explicitly tell you that, because it's just common knowledge that features take time to implement.

    The fact that it is in it's infancy is what makes this so horrific. This os should be one of their top priorities, and if anyone on this website thinks that this os is one of microsoft's top priorities after the past 5 months
    I agree, but sensationalising the situation by using terms like 'broken' for everything and calling things 'bugs' when they clearly (assuming you know what a bug is) are not bugs doesn't do anything except make you a person they will ignore because you obviously don't have a clue.

    you should have your views on fanboyism evaluated.
    Calling you out on your improper use of terms and lack of basis for comments isn't 'fanboyism'.

    it's not the same with every other infant platform. Every other infant platform was patched and patched until the customers were actually complaining about too many patches.
    That's a load of crap and you know it.

    They're still prancing around saying that updated this os is a core value or whatever, and i'm not quite sure how any of you don't find that as offensive as i do. They're lying to us, and most of you seem to be just fine with that.
    Because we understand they aren't magic, if a problem comes up they have to fix it and this will take time. They can't foresee all problems and just magically fix them instantly, have you really never been through the introduction of a new platform before? Even on platforms like the iphone where there are only a couple of concrete hardware platforms it still takes apple weeks to fix even the most critical (see safari pdf exploit) bugs.

    The problem you are having is you don't understand the methodology in the way they are distributing the software platform. Maybe it's not what you want to hear but it's basic and very logical. Of course it's natural to want the best of everything (say iOS with XBL/Office and the ability to install whatever i want) but that option just isn't there.

    iPhone/Blackberry - very limited set of hardware, controlled by the company that makes the software. The result is a consistent platform with a speedy software update cycle

    Android - can run on just about anything, google has no control over what devices it goes on or how the software is modified. The result is that updates that do come out get pushed to your device if the manufacturer wants to and many devices don't get them at all, this leads to an inconsistent platform with massive fragmentation.

    WP7 - runs on devices that satisfy minimum requirements, MS works with manufacturers to get the update working on all devices before pushing them out so all WP7 devices can be up to date. The result is a consistent platform with longer update cycles.

    EDIT: and please learn how to use forum quoting, it's not that hard.
    Last edited by exomondo; 03-22-2011 at 06:10 PM.
    03-22-2011 06:04 PM
  16. spitothec's Avatar
    If it's not broken, why is every WP7 user I know, and most people on this forum, drooling over a patch that gives us one added feature and a short list of bug fixes? We can disagree on this until we're both blue in the face, but as the phone sits, I consider it a glorified feature phone. For 2011, I can't justify calling this a premier smartphone. If you're happy with it, I'm happy for you.. I'm not sure why you're taking it personally.

    I'm not sure where yer going by attacking my knowledge of the english language, and I'm also not really sure what it has to do with anything. I've already clarified in a previous post that when I say bug, I actually mean "numerous software glitches, design flaws, blatant oversights, poor application management, a disregard for user experience, and an unfinished operating product in nearly every way". The word "bug" is just a little easier to type, so my apologies for being lazy. You really got me :)

    I can't think of any features this phone has that aren't on other phones in a broad sense, but I got it for two main reasons - 1. Microsoft promised to roll out updates quickly to catch up with the competition, and 2. I love(d) the Zune subscription service.

    I'm starting to think I need to put this in my sig - I've used BB, iOS, and Android for extended periods of time. WebOS aside, I'm just as aware as you are of their own OS issues, and I can't possibly see how you can consider any of them less stable or feature rich than WP7. If you're happy with having an underperforming OS with a lack of control over nearly anything that's missing basic features that other OS's have had for nearly a decade, then I'm not going to hate you for it.. I just don't get it. Honest question, what do you tell people who ask you about your phone and want an Android/iPhone comparison? For me, that's one of the hardest things about owning this phone.

    I'm not sure why you think that the competition's update cycle is a load of crap, but you are more than welcome to google the patch history of the competition. I know that iOS is the most popular thing to compare to, and I believe they had 8+ update in their first 6 months.. which is about 8 more updates than I've got haha

    I'm fully aware of how software updates roll out. I guess the only thing I really don't understand is how you find the situation we're in to be acceptable. I purchased my phone ins November, and I'll be lucky to have my first patch by May. If you're happy with that, I'm jealous because I can't seem to find any way to justify that as an acceptable timeframe to patch my "numerous software glitches, design flaws, blatant oversights, poor application management, a disregard for user experience, and an unfinished operating product in nearly every way".

    and I'm good on the quoting, I don't think this is getting published or graded :D
    03-22-2011 06:43 PM
  17. Exomondo's Avatar
    If it's not broken, why is every WP7 user I know, and most people on this forum, drooling over a patch that gives us one added feature and a short list of bug fixes?
    Probably because they want said features and bug fixes. That in no way makes it 'broken'.

    We can disagree on this until we're both blue in the face, but as the phone sits, I consider it a glorified feature phone. For 2011, I can't justify calling this a premier smartphone.
    And that's up to you, it's still not 'broken'.

    If you're happy with it, I'm happy for you.. I'm not sure why you're taking it personally.
    How could i possibly be 'taking it personally'?

    I'm not sure where yer going by attacking my knowledge of the english language, and I'm also not really sure what it has to do with anything.
    Using words incorrectly to describe a situation means your description of that situation is incorrect so of course that has everything to do with your communication.

    I've already clarified in a previous post that when I say bug, I actually mean "numerous software glitches, design flaws, blatant oversights, poor application management, a disregard for user experience, and an unfinished operating product in nearly every way". The word "bug" is just a little easier to type, so my apologies for being lazy. You really got me :)
    And 'feature requests' or hardware-specific issues don't fit into that, and if they did it wouldn't make any sense since those aren't anything to do with the OS or company being 'broken'.

    I can't think of any features this phone has that aren't on other phones in a broad sense, but I got it for two main reasons - 1. Microsoft promised to roll out updates quickly to catch up with the competition, and 2. I love(d) the Zune subscription service.
    Well there you go, Zune subscription, there's also Office and XBL (which is why i got it). Also i really like bing maps.

    I'm starting to think I need to put this in my sig - I've used BB, iOS, and Android for extended periods of time. WebOS aside, I'm just as aware as you are of their own OS issues, and I can't possibly see how you can consider any of them less stable or feature rich than WP7.
    Well im glad i don't have to do periodic battery pulls (like the BB), iOS (my ipad, my old iphone 3g, wife's iphone4) has no less crashes than wp7 (on my Omnia7) nor does Android and Android suffers from a lot of laggy scrolling and zooming issues even on the Nexus One and galaxy tab (haven't tried the S) that my omnia7 doesn't.

    If you're happy with having an underperforming OS
    But it isn't 'underperforming' (assuming you mean in terms of performance).

    with a lack of control over nearly anything
    What do you want/need control over?

    that's missing basic features that other OS's have had for nearly a decade, then I'm not going to hate you for it.. I just don't get it.
    because i don't need copy/paste or multitasking, yes i'd like to have them and im glad they are being added but if i needed them then WP7 would have been the wrong choice.

    Honest question, what do you tell people who ask you about your phone and want an Android/iPhone comparison? For me, that's one of the hardest things about owning this phone.
    I bought it because of its smoothness (over Android), its UI, its Office support, its XBL integration and its Zune functionality. If i needed copy/paste or multitasking i wouldn't have bought it, i like that it will get them in the future but i wouldn't have bought a device that lacks features that i need on the hope they will be added in future.

    I'm not sure why you think that the competition's update cycle is a load of crap, but you are more than welcome to google the patch history of the competition. I know that iOS is the most popular thing to compare to, and I believe they had 8+ update in their first 6 months.. which is about 8 more updates than I've got haha
    Read the description that i wrote below regarding the platforms, for iOS (and BB to a degree) it's easy, for every other platform it's difficult if they want to avoid fragmentation.

    I'm fully aware of how software updates roll out.
    Then why is it so difficult for you - in knowing they want to avoid fragmentation - to understand that when they have problems with a 3rd party manufacturer that this is going to take time to resolve?

    I guess the only thing I really don't understand is how you find the situation we're in to be acceptable.
    Because, like i said, i bought it based on it having what i needed rather than hoping what i needed would be added later. Same reason i didn't get the original iphone, i waited until it had the features i needed.

    and I'm good on the quoting, I don't think this is getting published or graded :D
    Are you sure? because you're doing it wrong.

    TBH i think im beginning to understand the issue, you bought your phone on the idea that it would become what you wanted it to be in the future - since your list of grievances was mostly feature requests - whereas i bought it the same way i buy all devices, for what it is when i buy it.
    I also understand you feel MS has wronged you but unforeseeable problems come with the territory.
    03-22-2011 07:23 PM
  18. Averry's Avatar

    TBH i think im beginning to understand the issue, you bought your phone on the idea that it would become what you wanted it to be in the future - since your list of grievances was mostly feature requests - whereas i bought it the same way i buy all devices, for what it is when i buy it.
    I also understand you feel MS has wronged you but unforeseeable problems come with the territory.

    Here's a number of devices that have changed in the time I've owned them through updates...sometimes drastically.


    PS3
    XBox360 (quite honestly...a Microsoft product...and the most dynamic shift...even if it was slower..but it was up against the PS3 and Wii after all)
    HTC Droid Incredible
    HTC Droid Eris
    Zune HD/Zune Software

    List of Popular Devices that have changed, and sometimes Drastically in a 1 to 2 year span.
    All of the iPod touch models.
    All of the iPhone Models.
    All of Motorola's Android phones (except the most recent models)
    Some of Samsung's Galaxy phones
    Most of HTC's Android phones in the last year.


    Most consumers.....are probably expecting software overhauls on their devices anymore. So don't try to take some sort of false high road.
    03-22-2011 08:19 PM
  19. Exomondo's Avatar
    Here's a number of devices that have changed in the time I've owned them through updates...sometimes drastically.
    Of course, i didn't say they didn't, nor am i suggesting WP7 won't in the future. I mean exactly what i wrote.

    Most consumers.....are probably expecting software overhauls on their devices anymore. So don't try to take some sort of false high road.
    I agree, but most consumers don't buy something that lacks necessary features until those features have been implemented.
    How is it a 'false high road'? It's simply basic logic that if you need a feature you don't buy the device that doesn't have said feature.
    03-22-2011 08:30 PM
  20. spitothec's Avatar
    TBH i think im beginning to understand the issue, you bought your phone on the idea that it would become what you wanted it to be in the future - since your list of grievances was mostly feature requests - whereas i bought it the same way i buy all devices, for what it is when i buy it.
    I also understand you feel MS has wronged you but unforeseeable problems come with the territory.
    I bought the device because Microsoft sold it as a platform they were working towards making competitive, and expecting a phone that wasn't quite caught up. I bought it because I was SUPER excited about what the phone was capable of. My problem is that I'm STILL super excited about what the phone is capable of, and I'm upset because I'm not seeing any of it's potential being used. I see a beautiful, amazing, snappy OS sitting here on my 5 month old phone with the same issues, bugs, and lack of promised features that it's had since last year. It's getting hard for me to keep telling myself that MS is going to fix it, when every other OS is being updated and patched while we sit here stagnant.

    I'm glad yer happy with yer phone, I really am, but when Microsoft told me they would be aggressively rolling out updates and adding features, like a fool, I believed them. This has not been the case, and I find it to be unacceptable. I'd be a lot easier on MS if they'd man up and admit that they bit off more than they could chew, and it's going to take years for them to catch up with the rest of the market, yet they continue to tell us that updating and adding features is their priority, while their actions show the opposite.

    They told us they have set standards for hardware and firmware so that we don't have fragmentation issues like Android, to make updates faster and easier, and it would help them roll out company-wide updates on an quick, efficient schedule. It turns out that their plan has backfired and this non-fragmented, multi-platform, multi-carrier update process is, in my opinion, the worst of each all rolled up into one. We're not fragmented, because none of us have been updated. We're not all getting update at the same time because we're not getting updates. I don't think MS saw it ending up this way, I sure didn't, but now that it's here and we're dealing with it, no one seems to be trying to figure out how to fix it for future patches. It would absolutely not surprise me in the least if I don't get NoDo on my phone until the end of Q3, and it's a terrifying thought. It's entirely up to AT&T at this point, but it's entirely possible that I could go nearly a full year without a single bug fix or feature added to my phone... and I shouldn't even need to say how long it could take for Mango to actually show up on my phone.

    Is it too much to ask for Microsoft to hold up the commitments they make, are honest with us when they screw up, and not lie to us about what's going to happen in the future? In fact, I'd almost rather them take the Apple road and leave us in the dark. At least that way they're not lying to us.

    Trust me, I respect yer opinion, I just have a different one. I wish I could be as optimistic and as patient as you.
    03-22-2011 09:32 PM
  21. Exomondo's Avatar
    I bought the device because Microsoft sold it as a platform they were working towards making competitive, and expecting a phone that wasn't quite caught up. I bought it because I was SUPER excited about what the phone was capable of. My problem is that I'm STILL super excited about what the phone is capable of, and I'm upset because I'm not seeing any of it's potential being used.
    Well hopefully they follow through and this first update is an isolated incident simply because it's the 'first'.

    I'm glad yer happy with yer phone, I really am, but when Microsoft told me they would be aggressively rolling out updates and adding features, like a fool, I believed them. This has not been the case, and I find it to be unacceptable.
    I suppose you were sold on a promise, i can understand that's frustrating, it would be good if they were a little more transparent on 'why' this is all taking so long.

    They told us they have set standards for hardware and firmware so that we don't have fragmentation issues like Android, to make updates faster and easier, and it would help them roll out company-wide updates on an quick, efficient schedule. It turns out that their plan has backfired and this non-fragmented, multi-platform, multi-carrier update process is, in my opinion, the worst of each all rolled up into one.
    I hope it's just teething issues and the update process gets smoother, we've seen a major hiccup in the very first update so hopefully that was the only cause for the delay. At least the idea is that once updates are rolled out they are available to everyone and not just those who have capable devices or accommodating manufacturers.

    Is it too much to ask for Microsoft to hold up the commitments they make, are honest with us when they screw up, and not lie to us about what's going to happen in the future? In fact, I'd almost rather them take the Apple road and leave us in the dark. At least that way they're not lying to us.
    Yeah that is a tough one, on one hand it's nice to know what they're working on but on the other hand its great to see something announced and almost immediately (within a month or 2) available.
    03-22-2011 10:05 PM
  22. spitothec's Avatar
    If any of you have a few minutes, I think this is probably worth a read - (don't know how I missed it :( )

    The carriers are not your customers: the Windows Phone 7 update mess
    Jay Bennett likes this.
    03-22-2011 10:42 PM
  23. Luisraul924's Avatar
    If any of you have a few minutes, I think this is probably worth a read - (don't know how I missed it :( )

    The carriers are not your customers: the Windows Phone 7 update mess

    Yeah I remember reading that. It is too true. If and ONLY IF Android gets hardware acceleration (very highly extremely unlikely) for rich, smooth UI interaction (like WP7 and iOS) will i switch back. My faith in Microsoft is starting to fade to black.
    03-22-2011 10:51 PM
  24. nodoisnodont's Avatar
    As a long time user and supporter of Microsoft, I have given up hope that Microsoft can successfully enter the mobile market. They had a chance considering RIM and it's failures, Nokia (with or without MS deal would have failed) and Palm going nowhere. They could have entered third with a bright future - instead, their mobile OS needs alot of work and NoDo being a classic example of yet another Redmond failure. I switched to ATT from Verizon for the Focus on launch day and my wife received the iPhone. I am jealous every day - between the myrid of options, applications, settings, etc when comparing to WP7. Why is it that I cannot set a three hour notification on a calendar event (either 1 hour or 18 hour) nor I can't reschedule an all day even on consecutive days?!? Simple things cannot be done. The Android recently fixed a major problem with their marketplace - using Amazon's sevice to browse and display applications.

    Visual Studio and several apps are the only things that Microsoft continues to do right (for the most part). My faith of MS is nearly gone and gone forever in all aspects of daily use and in business situations.
    03-22-2011 11:20 PM
  25. Averry's Avatar
    Of course, i didn't say they didn't, nor am i suggesting WP7 won't in the future. I mean exactly what i wrote.



    I agree, but most consumers don't buy something that lacks necessary features until those features have been implemented.
    How is it a 'false high road'? It's simply basic logic that if you need a feature you don't buy the device that doesn't have said feature.

    When have I ever said I NEED any of those.

    This is 2011. If you'r satisfied with paying $600 for a device and getting left in the dark, then be my guest.

    I really don't think you get it.

    What if Microsoft released the Xbox 360...and IMPLIED that it would get Halo 3...but then just......never......released it.

    You'd be totally oooooookey.doke.happy.just.fine with that? I mean assuming you were a Halo fan. And to make matters as close to your example as possible...they never ever released any games at all from November 2005 and on. I mean...in your example.....somebody should have no ability to show any displeasure.

    Nevermind that you just gave Microsoft $400 with the understanding that your purchase would gain value over time...........cause you shouldn't have bought it if it didn't have what you needed.
    03-23-2011 01:41 AM
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