04-15-2011 08:39 PM
193 ... 678
tools
  1. Luisraul924's Avatar
    I really hate to throw more fuel onto this roaring fire, but I just read the latest Windows Phone Blog post on the subject of Copy and paste Update Status. There, Microsoft announces "new transparency" by putting up a website that indicates "Where's My Phone Update?". 52 responses have already been posted and most show upset users.

    It was shocking to learn that phones such as the HTC Surround, the LG Quantum and the Samsung Focus are still in "testing" status. This is for an update that supposedly was "in the can" back in November or December last year. Is it just me or is anyone else disbelieving that it takes over three months for the carriers to "test" this NoDo update? I just can't believe that the carriers are interested in the success of WP7. If they were, they would have made testing a priority and completed it long ago. I think they are just dragging their feet for the hell of it and with whatever business agreements Microsoft established with the carriers, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

    My bottom line is that unless Microsoft changes those agreements and gets assertive, they might as well pack it in because this OS is doomed to failure. Okay, let's see a quick show of hands; how many people actually believe an update called "Mango" will see the light of day on user devices before the end of 2011?

    *Raises hand*
    03-24-2011 02:52 AM
  2. Enemy Zero's Avatar
    This may have been said before but wasn't Microsoft's push for "unified hardware" the driving force behind so called "Fast Updating"? I thought every device had the same internals, so why is the update being fragmented like this?

    I am very frustrated by this whole thing and not because I was promised an update or I'm dying to have copy and paste. I'm just annoyed at the fact that I left android because of the fragmentation problem and went windows phone partly because of the universal hardware specs and the fact that all phones would be updated at the same time. The carrier block is total bull sh%t and the FCC needs to step in on this in some way. Once an update is ready it should be released without delay or question to ALL phones. Why is someone that bought an Arrive getting nodo and we are still in the dark? It's the same sh*t that's going on over at the Android camp. Phone "B" is coming out with android version 4.7 "Jelly Bean" while the phone you bought six months ago, "A" is still on 2.1.

    This is honestly embarrassing and I'm having a harder time justifying my choice to give microsoft another shot after I told everyone a few years ago that I'd never buy another microsoft product for anything. WP7 won me over with its beauty and smoothness and a promise of the unified hardware setup being a ray of hope that no device would be left behind but this is just wrong on every level.

    I'm sorry to rant but I'm just frustrated and was hoping there was one company out there left that did the right thing. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anymore nor will there ever be one ever again. For now I'm switching back and forth between my HD7 and my Nexus One dependent on what I need my phone to do for the moment but I keep coming back to my WP7 device due to its smoothness and overall enjoyable user experience. I do use copy and paste A LOT more than I thought I did but hopefully that will be remedied soon.

    Sorry to rant, that whole thing about the unified hardware was really grating on me.
    03-24-2011 07:45 AM
  3. kalldrexx's Avatar
    Lol that update page is a joke. It's ridiculously vague and gives no answers really, and instead highlights the fact that carriers want to delay the update as long as possible. MS really needs to kick them into gear.

    Honestly, this might be a good reason working closely with Nokia might be a good thing, and if the situation doesn't improve it will be interesting to see if Nokia WP7 phones go through testing faster.
    03-24-2011 08:12 AM
  4. Rico's Avatar
    I'll be sticking with my HD7, I like this platform and as much as I agree with mgarcia on the subject of updates; fortunately for me, I don't have as many issues with my HD7. it's easily more than enough to satisfy me until the updates do come. I will not however continue to praise and evangelize it, if a friend or co-worker asks about it I'll let them know its the best phone that ever happened, but its not for everyone... Yet. If that sparks their curiosity then I will explain everything to them... Well if they so choose, I find it makes a good chat.
    Pretty much the same here with me and my Focus, though the lack of copy and paste is not fun. My mom's up for an upgrade and sick of her iPhone 3G which is practically unusable with iOS 4 (not a fun upgrade either). A month ago I showed her my Focus and let her play with it. For the most part, I didn't tell her how to do anything, I just let her discover as she did with her iPhone. She picked everything up quickly and love the phone and OS, but I told her to hold off on buying one. Partially because of the upcoming iPhone 5, partially because I wanted to see at least one update smoothly install before she buys. I really can't recommend it to her at the moment. I was iffy on it to begin with given that it was so new and any new platform will have it growing pains, but this update situation has killed any chance of me recommending it at the moment. Fortunately, no critical security issued have been uncovered. I can't bear to think what would happen if MS had to push a fix out for it.

    I'll still praise the platform because it's worthy of it. I'll simply grumble about the lack of update. And I'll have to keep my eye out for another device to use if MS doesn't get things in order soon, which is really a difficult task because I love the way WP7 works and don't want to use anything else.
    03-24-2011 10:38 AM
  5. Michael-Dallas's Avatar
    It was shocking to learn that phones such as the HTC Surround, the LG Quantum and the Samsung Focus are still in "testing" status. This is for an update that supposedly was "in the can" back in November or December last year. Is it just me or is anyone else disbelieving that it takes over three months for the carriers to "test" this NoDo update? I just can't believe that the carriers are interested in the success of WP7. If they were, they would have made testing a priority and completed it long ago. I think they are just dragging their feet for the hell of it and with whatever business agreements Microsoft established with the carriers, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
    I know, for a fact, that when AT&T decides to pick up a phone from an OEM, that phone goes through about 4 months of carrier testing, this on top of OEM testing. So it would not surprise me if the carrier, in this case AT&T, applies the same amount of regression testing for an update.

    Like I said previously, I'm in software development and I know what it's like to be on the other side (in fact, going through the deployment and post-deployment woes right now). In addition, I have friends that work in wireless telecom. You wouldn't believe the BS that goes on behind closed doors between the OEM and AT&T.

    I will say that some OEMs are given more preference by the carrier. Since Samsung already has a solid relationship w/ AT&T, they may have more leeway than an OEM that has a younger relationship, such as Nokia.

    For an interesting history lesson, read up on the history behind the iPhone between Apple, Motorola, and AT&T. Then perhaps you'd see the politics and BS behind it.

    Michael.
    03-24-2011 11:02 AM
  6. Averry's Avatar
    Which is kinda bull**** anyways, because like the article that mgarcia posted, if you have an unlocked device on their network, you don't have to wait for them to test it out before you get upgrades.

    Not to mention AT&T has stinted carrier branded phones with their HSUPA+ tampering.
    03-24-2011 01:26 PM
  7. Luisraul924's Avatar
    Which is kinda bull**** anyways, because like the article that mgarcia posted, if you have an unlocked device on their network, you don't have to wait for them to test it out before you get upgrades.

    Not to mention AT&T has stinted carrier branded phones with their HSUPA+ tampering.

    Well there are two sides two that story, there is the one you mentioned, and there is the argument that says even though you have an unlocked device, they are still providing service for you, which is something they dont have to do, they could easily refuse you service if you have an unknown device that may have an adverse effect on their network (like an email provider not staying on top of their sh!t and causing massive data leaks) they can't definitively point out a specific issue on any phone so if you are using an unknown device on their network and have a massive data leak then they see that as a really bad thing andwant to prevent that, however, given that T-Mobile is already scheduling the update, I don't see what the holdup with AT&T is... Well they have one more device than T-Mobile as well as the ****ty Samsung Focus and its firmware issues lol Samsung sucks man they couldn't even get their **** straight with their Android phones lmao.
    03-24-2011 02:02 PM
  8. swantonsoup's Avatar
    I have Verizon and have been holding out for the Trophy and am as frustrated and anxious as everyone else. I think people need to give Microsoft some slack. The Pre-NoDo update bricked the Samsung phones which really delayed this entire process. If it wasn't for this, we all would have NoDo by now. Its unfortunate that MS had the Samsung issues.

    Also, its hard to compare it with Android. When Android was released in October 2008 the only phone was the G1 on T-Mobile. Android 1.1 came out 5 months later (February 2009) and this was, again, only for the G1 on T-Mobile. Android did not gain CDMA support until 1.6 which was released in September 2009. Please also note these updates were when Google released the updates to the carriers. The actual updates were in a roll-out process (like WP7) based on carrier/manufacturer.

    People have to change their perspective on all this. Microsoft is last to the game in the mobile market so expectations are already at the top. The iPhone shipped missing many features (including copy/paste) but people still loved the device. It sucks for Microsoft because they really are in a tough situation given how far behind they are. Also, they tried to take on multiple carriers and multiple manufacturers which is something neither Android nor iOS did at launch.

    I like the vision and direction Microsoft has with WP7 and I want to support it. It gets harder to with every day, but they should turn it around. Stay faithful. Lets hope to see the Trophy soon and Mango by the end of 2011.
    03-24-2011 03:04 PM
  9. Averry's Avatar
    Microsoft made their bed, now they get to lay in it.

    They're just lucky there are SOME people holding onto hope that they can be competitive this time next year.


    Part of me is sort of wondering if they're just gonna hold some stuff back to come out big with Nokia...but I don't see that having much of an effect in the US.
    03-24-2011 03:27 PM
  10. Averry's Avatar
    At least they had somebody at Microsoft to work on this video.


    03-24-2011 03:29 PM
  11. spitothec's Avatar
    "It's unfortunate that MS had the Samsung issues"... Microsoft has more experience pushing out patches than any other company in the history of the planet. There is absolutely no excuse for this to happen. Period. They make software that runs on hundreds of thousands of pieces of hardware on hundreds of millions of computers, and they patch it so much that people leave it for OSX. You cannot honestly say that we need to go easier on Microsoft's capabilities for patching something.

    Comparing this launch to Android and iOS's launches does not quite compare, because they launched 3-4 years ago. You are up against what's out now, you can't compete against the past.. and either what you look at it, past, present, or future, Microsoft is floundering.. and in the sense of updating and simple bug removal, iOS and Android handled the situation better than Microsoft in the sense that they at least tried to handle it. Four years prep time. It's sad.

    Let me ask you this. Since WP7 was launched, what has Microsoft done right? Honest question, I'm struggling to think of anything. They've patched the Xbox a number of times, they've patched Windows and it's software hundreds of times.. hell, they patched my Zune. They've launched a new server software.. hell, maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong. Maybe the fact that they're patching everything else IS the problem :D
    03-24-2011 04:09 PM
  12. Michael-Dallas's Avatar
    Which is kinda bull**** anyways, because like the article that mgarcia posted, if you have an unlocked device on their network, you don't have to wait for them to test it out before you get upgrades.
    Unlocked or unbranded? If your phone is unbranded, then you can do whatever you want. However, if your phone is unlocked, but still branded for a carrier-specific OS build, then you're ultimately at the mercy of the carrier.

    Not to mention AT&T has stinted carrier branded phones with their HSUPA+ tampering.
    That is AT&T trying to keep iphone owners happy. The iphone is AT&T's cash cow and they want to keep the owners happy w/ a reliable and fast data connection. Allowing everybody else HSUPA increases the risk of degrading the iphone owner experience.

    I think I've said it before here, but the Focus is my first branded phone in a long time and I am going back to unbranded phones as soon as a decent unbranded WP7 on AT&T's GSM bands becomes available. I will gladly pay that $600 for a phone that doesn't have the carrier BS on top of it. And I will further mitigate the $600 expenditure by going back to $15/mo unlimited data when my current contract ends.

    Beyond that, money talks and BS walks. If you want to make an impact and get your point across to Microsoft, then simply don't buy the phone and spend your money elsewhere. Or sell your phone, cut your loses (money & emotion-wise) and move on. It's quite a quandry that Microsoft has gotten themselves in and they have alot of catching up to do. The way you guys talk about how Microsoft needs to do this or that -- they already know. If it were that easy, then perhaps you should apply to work at Microsoft and help fix the issue(s).

    And please, don't mistake my understanding of reality as fanboyism. If I'm a fanboy of anything, it's Nokia and I put my money where my mouth was -- I moved on to WP7.

    Michael.
    03-24-2011 09:01 PM
  13. Averry's Avatar
    Unlocked or unbranded? If your phone is unbranded, then you can do whatever you want. However, if your phone is unlocked, but still branded for a carrier-specific OS build, then you're ultimately at the mercy of the carrier.



    That is AT&T trying to keep iphone owners happy. The iphone is AT&T's cash cow and they want to keep the owners happy w/ a reliable and fast data connection. Allowing everybody else HSUPA increases the risk of degrading the iphone owner experience.

    I think I've said it before here, but the Focus is my first branded phone in a long time and I am going back to unbranded phones as soon as a decent unbranded WP7 on AT&T's GSM bands becomes available. I will gladly pay that $600 for a phone that doesn't have the carrier BS on top of it. And I will further mitigate the $600 expenditure by going back to $15/mo unlimited data when my current contract ends.

    Beyond that, money talks and BS walks. If you want to make an impact and get your point across to Microsoft, then simply don't buy the phone and spend your money elsewhere. Or sell your phone, cut your loses (money & emotion-wise) and move on. It's quite a quandry that Microsoft has gotten themselves in and they have alot of catching up to do. The way you guys talk about how Microsoft needs to do this or that -- they already know. If it were that easy, then perhaps you should apply to work at Microsoft and help fix the issue(s).

    And please, don't mistake my understanding of reality as fanboyism. If I'm a fanboy of anything, it's Nokia and I put my money where my mouth was -- I moved on to WP7.

    Michael.
    No, there are a few other problems at work here than just pandering to iPhone owners. Like say....selling you a "4G" device that does "arguable" 4G download, and 3g uploads. Something I'm not necessarily worried about however.

    And again.....it's not do, don't, or die here...for reals. So now my criticism means I'm being a little sissy or something If I don't shove it and just not buy a Windows Phone?

    Edit: I'm gonna buy either the Trophy or the HD7S, I have to wait and see how everything shakes out. But if by this time next year, after MWC, and the first Nokia products come out, if things still don't look a little more on the up and up, then i'll move on.
    Luisraul924 likes this.
    03-24-2011 10:09 PM
  14. Luisraul924's Avatar
    but if by this time next year, after MWC, and the first Nokia products come out, if things still don't look a little more on the up and up, then i'll move on.
    yup that's what I'll be doing of course if it does end up like that I dearly hope Android will have done something with hardware acceleration and the UI cuz if not then I really dont know what OS I would go with given that I dont like Android too much anymore and I've despised iOS since day one. I might end up having to give that OS Motorola is making a shot.
    03-24-2011 10:45 PM
  15. Averry's Avatar
    yup that's what I'll be doing of course if it does end up like that I dearly hope Android will have done something with hardware acceleration and the UI cuz if not then I really dont know what OS I would go with given that I dont like Android too much anymore and I've despised iOS since day one. I might end up having to give that OS Motorola is making a shot.

    That's another thing man....alot of people here **** on Android....but right now Android's got the functionality. A year ago, they didn't have Matias Duerte from Palm (who designed Web OS). He did most of the design on Honeycomb.

    Things could really change.
    03-24-2011 11:08 PM
  16. Luisraul924's Avatar
    That's another thing man....alot of people here **** on Android....but right now Android's got the functionality. A year ago, they didn't have Matias Duerte from Palm (who designed Web OS). He did most of the design on Honeycomb.

    Things could really change.

    True. However looks are one thing, FEEL is an almost entirely different story. I like the looks of WP7 sure, but it's the feel of the OS I fell in love with I like the responsiveness it has, it makes Android seem ancient lol. I hate that Android is so laggy and choppy the smoothest thing on the thing is probably that gallery app made by cooliris I believe? Even that isnt as smooth as WP7. So until they can fully integrate the GPU into the mix for some good hardware acceleration, I dont think the feel of Android will be a rich one.
    03-25-2011 12:34 AM
  17. Averry's Avatar
    Gizmodo, the Gadget Guide






    Windows Phone 7, You Were Supposed to be Great. So What Happened?
    Sam Biddle "Windows Phone 7 is the most aggressively different, fresh approach to a phone interface since the iPhone." We published those words half a year ago, hoping WP7 would be a radical firebrand in phone land. But it's stalled. We're disappointed.

    Our reasons for cheering WP7 were (and still are) manifold. No really. It's pretty great. But last year's great isn't going to cut it.
    It's beautifulsuperflat, minimal, modern, refreshing. Its aesthetic purity stands out in sea of turgid gradients, UI trompe l'oeil, and fragmented Android hideousness.

    It's thoughtful. Rather than taking the Microsoft philosophy employed since tech time immemorial, the WP7 team flushed everything and began anew. Windows Phone 7 doesn't play design catchup (which can't be said of its desktop cousin). No cues from Android, no theft from Applethe clean, tile-based UI is as functionally refreshing as it is visually pleasing. It's simple, and simply goodintuitive, and intelligent. The menus are without bloat, responsive, and present information you want without flourish. Bottom line: WP7 required a lot of brain sweat, and not for nothing.

    It was also, simply, an alternative. We like iOSa lot! And Android has a lot of fantastic things going for it. But a two horse race is only good for the horsesa robust, lovely OS like WP7, with a fleet of good phones to carry it, could have shifted the whole smartphone brawl. Hooking up with Nokia will give WP7 the rocksolid hardware it needs, but Microsoft still needs to pony up the rocksolid software Nokia deserves. Without it, Microsoft (and its users) will continue to be spectatorsApple and Google have continued to duke it out while Microsoft sits ringside and puts on nail polish, gloves dangling idly at its side.

    Get. In. The. God. Damn. Fight.

    WP7 doesn't have Angry Birds yet. Angry Birdsa game so worn out and ubiquitous that there's a board game version of it. Many WP7 owners still don't have copy and pastean update promised in February that has yet go universal. And even when that update (and others) pop, it'll be the same sad trot we've seen from Microsoft on desktopscatchup. This same lagging update is also supposed to fix slow app performancean annoyance that's bothered us since day one. And, really, it's this, not the absence of stupid Angry Birds, that's hamstringing WP7. As great as it was six months ago, that was six months ago. If Microsoft thinks Apple and Google are going to slow down the pace, well, they're obviously wrongAndroid and iOS are miles ahead in terms of functionality, performance, and community, while Microsoft struggles to squeeze out the fundamentals.

    They need do what we told them to do last year:

    "Update. A lot. And quickly. Do you remember how truly ****ty Android was two years ago, when it launched? Can you believe Android 2.2 is what it looks like now? Especially when you compare how much iPhone evolved in the same period? (A lot, but Android's gone way further, since it had to come from waaaaayyyyyy behind.) Guess what? Windows Phone is the one lagging now. It's the one missing stuff that iPhone, Android, WebOS, even BlackBerry and Symbian have. So Microsoft needs to play like Google. Fast, constant updates, every couple of months until it's caught up or surpassed everybody else. You've got the resources. Use them. (I'd bet $20 there were far fewer people working on Android than on Windows Phone.) Don't blow this."

    It was good advice then, and it's dire advice now. Less advice than a shot of adrenaline into the moribund, overdosed Pulp Fiction Uma Thurman that is WP7 right now.

    Microsoft: you have the head for this, or else you wouldn't have something so great to neglect in the first place. Christ knows you've got the money. Whatever's in your waycustomers, carriers, anythingknock them aside, because Apple (and increasingly Google) aren't letting anything block their software march. You've got Nokia on your sidea big fat Finnish bargaining chip. Leverage your way through whatever's holding you up with this new ally. Make a Microsoft Nexus One. Deliver. Above all get off your assbecause we really want to see you kill it.
    04-15-2011 08:35 PM
  18. Averry's Avatar
    No new phones, a minor update that most WP7 users haven't even gotten one yet.


    The only press has been bad press.


    And Mango looks to completely change Windows Phone for the better, but at best it's Vapor Ware until, basically, AT&T actually pushes that sucker out again.


    Why Microsoft, have you allowed posts like this on Gizmodo to be made? Have you let the competitors and their mothers have all of the good press the last 6 months, and leave all of the exciting future features again shrouded in doubt about when we'll actually get it?

    Again, yes, this update process has probably blindsided Microsoft with OEM and carrier problems....but if that's the case, push out incremental feature updates every 3 months, and let them flow down when they get there.

    When it comes to the major updates, that's when all the new API's can come into effect.
    Last edited by Averry; 04-15-2011 at 08:45 PM.
    04-15-2011 08:39 PM
193 ... 678
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD