NoDo home stretch

[Duvi]

I'd be excited for bug fixes only... lol. That's how much I just want to see the update button appear in "phone update"

It won't be fully rolled out until next month (at least), but I'm hoping I'm one of the first with the update.

i actually haven't run into any real bugs, just felt like i needed an update badly and that if that's all that was in one, i'd be happy with that to just update my phone. lol.

one bug i can think of is when i'll attempt to go into an application and it'll act like it's loading and then go to the homescreen. not even sure when that actually happens though, so i can't replicate.

 

[Duvi]

maybe it was posted already, but too much too read... doesn't look like the U.S. gets any love right now...

Microsoft on Tuesday confirmed that its first major update for the Windows Phone 7 platform is now being rolled out to users. Internally referred to as ?NoDo? ? which is said to be short for ?No Donuts,? mocking Google?s first Android update dubbed ?Donut? ? the update adds much sought after copy/paste functionality to Windows Phone 7 devices. It also adds support for ?tombstoning,? improves Marketplace searches, fixes a variety of bugs and adds support for CDMA devices. ?We?ve begun to gradually roll out the Copy & Paste update, starting small with open market phone customers in parts of Europe this week,? a Microsoft spokesperson told BGR in an email, adding, ?More to come.? Sprint?s HTC Arrive was the first device to feature NoDo when it launched this past Sunday with the update pre-installed. Microsoft has not yet detailed its plans for a U.S. rollout, so we are unsure when other U.S. carrier-branded devices will begin receiving NoDo. Users will receive notifications on their devices once the update becomes available, and they will need to connect to PCs in order to install it.

 

[CoopII]

Actually yes I read that article before I posted. Very much like what Telus posted about the last update that just reached my phone today So tell me why would any of us not think they would hold up the roll out of this update? A small pre-update took them this long to reach me after release how am I to be hopeful that they will release this one when they say. I haven't had an issue that I need the update other then when I try to type texts it will lag for a while before what I type is displayed on the screen.

This is not directed at Microsoft or WP7 but at Telus. I've been with them for a long time but after the way they would not update my DARE without a fee and now holding back this update I will look for other service providers at contract end.

 

[spitothec]

mgarcia post the link to any article that stated that one update cycle crap and I'll concede defeat.

Straight from Joe Belfiore, VP of Microsoft back in October -

?We build an update for everyone, and certify them with carriers. They?re on a regular cadence as they are on the PC. If a carrier wants to stop an update, they can. But they will get it out on the next release.?

I'm reading that as when Microsoft releases NoDo, the carriers are required to push the pre-NoDo update. I also read that as the carrier is not forced to release both update simultaneously, because he doesn't say that.

?Updates are cumulative. If a carrier doesn?t get their testing done in time, the next push date comes and it goes out then."

The next "push date" is here, which is why people are getting the pre-NoDo update. If the carriers were forced to release both, they would have bundled them together. The carriers are pushing out the pre-NoDo update, so they're now able to hold back the actual NoDo update until the NEXT push date.. which at this time, is Mango, maybe Q3. The way I'm reading it, as long as the carrier is only one patch behind schedule, there's no problem.. and that wouldn't be a problem, but one patch behind schedule in WP7 world is a 6 month gap.

?Carriers could in fact block updates to sell you a phone. That can happen. We don?t expect that to happen. We are not going to push updates onto carrier networks that they have not tested. Microsoft is being very trusting of the carriers here. It?s very different from the situation with Windows Mobile, where every phone was very different and a full test pass was required on every phone. Here, there?s no impact on OEM code, network code, etc. There are upgrades that will require a full test pass. Most will not.?

If you can post an article that proves this info incorrect, I'll glady admit being wrong (and I hope that I am), but everything I have read said it works like this -

Patch 1 is released to carriers. Carrier blocks Patch 1.
Patch 2 is released to carriers. Carriers have to release Patch 1. Carriers block Patch 2.
Patch 3 is released to carriers. Carriers have to release Patch 2. Carriers block Patch 3.
and so on.

Cutting through the FUD about Windows Phone updates | ZDNet

Windows Phone 7 updates: can carriers block them?

 

[WayCool]

BGR is wrong btw.... NoDo .. is not No Donuts mocking Android.. it was coined due to a meeting participant failing to bring the donuts... thus nodo... has nothing to do with Android...

This is via Charlie Kindel ..

just say'n

 

[spitothec]

I believe they're also wrong about added "tombstoning" support.. at least I don't recall hearing about that anywhere.. haha

 

[Luisraul924]

Neither of the links you provided mgarcia stated that crappy update cycle. As a matter of fact quite the contrary, I read on the ZDNet post that if the update has nothing network related (such as new radio firmware) then the carriers don't have to test them and they can push them straight to customers. Also according to that same post there was a quote that stated most updates won't contain such firmware.

 

[Pete C]

Carriers that block an update to sell phones make no sense. You are only hurting the existing phone owners who JUST bought WP7 phones, who clearly are not going to buy a new phone without a 2-year contract discount just to get the new features. It makes no sense to block updates for that purpose. Maybe in the future, once original owners are due to get a new phone after 2 years would I see the point in that.

 

[spitothec]

I read on the ZDNet post that if the update has nothing network related (such as new radio firmware) then the carriers don't have to test them and they can push them straight to customers. Also according to that same post there was a quote that stated most updates won't contain such firmware.

Well that's already been proven untrue as the carriers blocked the pre-NoDo update and it has zero relationship to the actual network.. so I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Like I said, I'm hoping I'm wrong about it, but I can't seem to find anything that says I am.

 

[Luisraul924]

Well that's already been proven untrue as the carriers blocked the pre-NoDo update and it has zero relationship to the actual network.. so I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Like I said, I'm hoping I'm wrong about it, but I can't seem to find anything that says I am.

I can't seem to find anything that says you aren't. Well since, apparently, everything is misconstrued, let's hope this is an isolated incident, we won't really know the true nature of Microsoft's model until they get the hang of it (although it does suck that they're making ALL of these mistakes along the way, at least they serve a purpose, to learn from)

 

[Jay Bennett]

I believe they're also wrong about added "tombstoning" support.. at least I don't recall hearing about that anywhere.. haha

Tombstoning support? That's been in the OS from day one. Tombstoning is what happens when you press the Start button whilst using an application and go to use the phone in some other way, the app enters a tombstone state and is resumed when you go back to it.

Source: Developer resources here -> App Hub

 

[jalb]

I don't understand why the carriers block updates.

 

[Luisraul924]

Tombstoning support? That's been in the OS from day one. Tombstoning is what happens when you press the Start button whilst using an application and go to use the phone in some other way, the app enters a tombstone state and is resumed when you go back to it.

Source: Developer resources here -> App Hub

Well, sorta... When you using an app and the start button is pressed, the app is closed out completely, if you were to click the app again it'll restart. It's a different story however, when you stay in the app and you lock the device, one of two things happens; if the app supports running under the lock screen, then obviously it stays running, if not then its tombstoned, where the app will attempt to resume where you left off. I would assume by tombstoning in NoDo; it does this whenever you select to start the app period.

 

[Luisraul924]

I don't understand why the carriers block updates.

In most cases, it's because it's in the best interest of these companies to block them to sell newer phones, but given that wave #2 of devices probably won't be released for another ~6 months, I dont understand why they would.

 

[Jay Bennett]

Well, sorta... When you using an app and the start button is pressed, the app is closed out completely, if you were to click the app again it'll restart. It's a different story however, when you stay in the app and you lock the device, one of two things happens; if the app supports running under the lock screen, then obviously it stays running, if not then its tombstoned, where the app will attempt to resume where you left off. I would assume by tombstoning in NoDo; it does this whenever you select to start the app period.

You missed what I said slightly, if you press the start button the app is still tombstoned, and will resume to where it left off if you press the back button (not launch it again).
That was my meaning of "going back" if you press the back button and resume the app, developers can use the IsolatedStorage State memory to repopulate fields etc. The app is very much dead, but it saved it's work before being killed and can be resumed to re-load all of that work.

If the NoDo update is bringing tombstoning whereby clicking on an app to re-launch it rather than having to press the back button will resume state, then this wasn't in the developer tools NoDo update, as the Emulator still behaves the same way as vanilla WP7

 

[Luisraul924]

You missed what I said slightly, if you press the start button the app is still tombstoned, and will resume to where it left off if you press the back button (not launch it again).
That was my meaning of "going back" if you press the back button and resume the app, developers can use the IsolatedStorage State memory to repopulate fields etc. The app is very much dead, but it saved it's work before being killed and can be resumed to re-load all of that work.

If the NoDo update is bringing tombstoning whereby clicking on an app to re-launch it rather than having to press the back button will resume state, then this wasn't in the developer tools NoDo update, as the Emulator still behaves the same way as vanilla WP7

Yeah I almost forgot about the "back" button. Hmm... Interesting point on the dev tools.

 

[Jay Bennett]

Yeah I almost forgot about the "back" button. Hmm... Interesting point on the dev tools.

I believe that based on the communications from MS, Mango will bring about the app's resuming through re-launch without having to press the back button, but I'm not certain.

Personally that can't come fast enough as it's a much simpler way for most users to interact with the phone, I like the linear navigation model but not every user is going to get it.

 

[gibbyhome]

Microsoft said that all carriers need to test software updates before you can put it on their networks, and he said all manufactures with no exceptions.. ???
with that said when apple releases an update I don't believe that they need to go through the same process..

 

[sketch42]

Microsoft said that all carriers need to test software updates before you can put it on their networks, and he said all manufactures with no exceptions.. ???
with that said when apple releases an update I don't believe that they need to go through the same process..

yes they do.. they just release it in a manner where it wont brick your device .. and when its ready for all devices then it goes out.. apple puts updqates out once every 6-8-12 months.. so they have a lot of time to work with the ONE ... now 2 Carriers..... where as wp7 and android.. have 2 or 3 three carriers to deal with.. all with finicky time frames.. att and verizon being the worst of the bunch.. sprint is the best when it comes to updates

 

[theefman]

yes they do.. they just release it in a manner where it wont brick your device .. and when its ready for all devices then it goes out.. apple puts updqates out once every 6-8-12 months.. so they have a lot of time to work with the ONE ... now 2 Carriers..... where as wp7 and android.. have 2 or 3 three carriers to deal with.. all with finicky time frames.. att and verizon being the worst of the bunch.. sprint is the best when it comes to updates

Apple has carriers in France, UK, Japan, Australia, maybe more countries. They have a lot more than 2 carriers to deal with and yet manage to get their updates out to all their users at the same time. And since the launch of WP7 they have released several updates, far from the once every 6 months you claim.