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04-19-2011 02:14 PM
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  1. Averry's Avatar
    ^ I wouldn't be so sure about that. Sprint hasn't carried Nokia devices for a long time, and when they did, they were low-end phones. (I know because I had been using a Nokia 6016i from 2005 until I upgraded last week to an HTC Arrive. I would LOVE to see it happen, but I have my doubts.
    Nokia, in general, hasn't been carried by the carriers much at all in the last 4 years.
    Especially not smart phones. It seems Nokia finds US carriers to be very disagreeable. However, they may have to suck up all their pride, and deal with it.

    HTC seems to have been quite agreeable to what I'll refer to as "the big four turd muffins", as they've done nothing but essentially have their stocks skyrocket.

    Makes you wonder how long the R&D on these phones really needs to take though? HTC must put out about 15 phones a year, between all the phones and their European models, and whatever else.
    04-16-2011 04:54 PM
  2. Duvi's Avatar
    Haven't most of them?

    Just through unlocked channels.


    I basically promised myself to get what hopefully ends up being a super sweet Nokia phone unlocked early next year.
    exactly... unlocked, but not released for the U.S.. they only have NA bands that we can get at unsubsidized prices.

    so they unreleased to the U.S., but can be used here.
    04-16-2011 06:14 PM
  3. Averry's Avatar
    exactly... unlocked, but not released for the U.S.. they only have NA bands that we can get at unsubsidized prices.

    so they unreleased to the U.S., but can be used here.
    Amazon sells them.

    It's not like you have to import them.
    04-16-2011 08:08 PM
  4. gibbyhome's Avatar
    Mango will be released in the Fall, I would bet that microsoft is pushing for the First week in October like the release date, and I'm sure we will also see a bunch of new phones with faster GPU's and front facing cameras "IE Skype" this will make the Phone carriers happy and we will all get upgrades to Mango, Also Nokia will have 2 phones launched around the same time of this release, The CEO is using a Windows Phone made by Nokia right now and from what we are hearing it is working very very Well. !!
    04-16-2011 08:30 PM
  5. Duvi's Avatar
    Amazon sells them.

    It's not like you have to import them.
    so they sell them subsidized and have gone through T&A of the carriers? i haven't looked at the phone section on amazon in quite some time, so maybe things have changed.

    also... the real point is that Europe gets the phones first. the N.A. variant is usually months, sometimes close to a year behind. so if you see a European version in November, don't expect a N.A. version until after the new year.
    04-16-2011 09:03 PM
  6. Luisraul924's Avatar
    Mango will be released in the Fall, I would bet that microsoft is pushing for the First week in October like the release date, and I'm sure we will also see a bunch of new phones with faster GPU's and front facing cameras "IE Skype" this will make the Phone carriers happy and we will all get upgrades to Mango

    So uh... Did you forget about America? I don't know if you've checked lately but these carriers like to play ball with capitalism, if these new phones are as great as you say they are then carriers would loooooooove to delay the update specifically to sell the newer phones. Especially now that they can purposely delay them if they wish because of that stupid "carriers can delay every other update cycle" if you noticed, they delayed Feb. Update force to push march update (even though they still used the "testing" technicality to delay it) now they can delay Mango just because Microsoft let them. Of course their real reason to delay is to sell the newer phones and they could just use the "testing" excuse to avoid bad press by blocking the update to sell them newer phones. I mean its not like they would explicitly state that they're delaying it because Microsoft allowed them to, much less because they're trying to push newer handsets.
    04-16-2011 10:05 PM
  7. Averry's Avatar
    so they sell them subsidized and have gone through T&A of the carriers? i haven't looked at the phone section on amazon in quite some time, so maybe things have changed.

    also... the real point is that Europe gets the phones first. the N.A. variant is usually months, sometimes close to a year behind. so if you see a European version in November, don't expect a N.A. version until after the new year.
    Well, personally, the subsidized system sucks.

    You don't save any money...you just get locked into contracts.

    It's bad for everyone.
    04-16-2011 10:17 PM
  8. Averry's Avatar
    So uh... Did you forget about America? I don't know if you've checked lately but these carriers like to play ball with capitalism, if these new phones are as great as you say they are then carriers would loooooooove to delay the update specifically to sell the newer phones. Especially now that they can purposely delay them if they wish because of that stupid "carriers can delay every other update cycle" if you noticed, they delayed Feb. Update force to push march update (even though they still used the "testing" technicality to delay it) now they can delay Mango just because Microsoft let them. Of course their real reason to delay is to sell the newer phones and they could just use the "testing" excuse to avoid bad press by blocking the update to sell them newer phones. I mean its not like they would explicitly state that they're delaying it because Microsoft allowed them to, much less because they're trying to push newer handsets.
    And yep, the subsidized system sucks.

    But America has apparently been brainwashed into "why would I pay more?".

    The worst part is, it's not like you get a discount if you buy a phone at full retail.
    04-16-2011 10:19 PM
  9. Duvi's Avatar
    Well, personally, the subsidized system sucks.

    You don't save any money...you just get locked into contracts.

    It's bad for everyone.
    how am i not saving money? i'm already with at&t and i get a phone for 1/5 the retail price. i then sell my phone for the retail price or more and get another subsidized device.

    i have these devices and purchased them for the price on the right:

    bb 9700 - free
    9800 - free
    focus - $99
    atrix - $125
    pre - $100

    and the iPhone 4 i bought for $300 (bought two at the time) and sold one for $800.

    i only see it being bad if you need to change carriers left and right... and in that case, just buy it unsubsidized.
    04-16-2011 10:27 PM
  10. Averry's Avatar
    how am i not saving money? i'm already with at&t and i get a phone for 1/5 the retail price. i then sell my phone for the retail price or more and get another subsidized device.

    i have these devices and purchased them for the price on the right:

    bb 9700 - free
    9800 - free
    focus - $99
    atrix - $125
    pre - $100

    and the iPhone 4 i bought for $300 (bought two at the time) and sold one for $800.

    i only see it being bad if you need to change carriers left and right... and in that case, just buy it unsubsidized.

    How do they afford to give you those discounts.

    By charging you more month to month. You give them probably $2000-$2400 in two years, and you save $200-$400 on one phone.

    Big deal.

    And how do you get the Focus and and the Atrix within a few months of a each other? You must be circulating phones around on a family plan.

    If phones were $400 to $600, but plans were only $60-$70 a month on average instead of $90 to $100 (for texting and data) I'd be way happier.

    They've brain washed you into thinking you're saving money. Start comparing phone plans for the same devices in other countries. The US has way more expensive plans.


    Also....how do you sell it for the "retail price or more". Who are you ripping off for a $600 used phone?
    Last edited by Averry; 04-16-2011 at 10:50 PM.
    04-16-2011 10:43 PM
  11. cdook's Avatar
    I don't think the reason carriers "delay" updates is to sell more phones. How many unsubsidized phones do you think the carriers sell? I'd think most people have subsidized phones.

    I'm on AT&T and they haven't pushed NoDo yet. If the sell more phones logic was true there'd be a NoDo WP7 waiting for me on AT&T. But as it stands, I'd have to change carriers to get NoDo. So it actually hurts them or doesn't make a difference.
    04-16-2011 10:50 PM
  12. Duvi's Avatar
    How do they afford to give you those discounts.

    By charging you more month to month. You give them probably $2000-$2400 in two years, and you save $200-$400 on one phone.

    Big deal.

    And how do you get the Focus and and the Atrix within a few months of a each other? You must be circulating phones around on a family plan.

    If phones were $400 to $600, but plans were only $60-$70 a month on average instead of $90 to $100 (for texting and data) I'd be way happier.

    They've brain washed you into thinking you're saving money. Start comparing phone plans for the same devices in other countries. The US has way more expensive plans.


    Also....how do you sell it for the "retail price or more". Who are you ripping off for a $600 used phone?
    i'm paying the same amount per month whether i get it subsidized or unsubsidized, so how am i paying more for going with the same monthly service charge and a discounted phone? the price is the same, except you sign a contract, which idc about since i am staying with at&t and would be paying that amount no matter what.

    what carrier are you with? if they're charging you more for your MSC for a discounted phone, i hope you aren't handing cash to the at&t store clerk to pay your bill every month... lol.
    04-16-2011 10:51 PM
  13. Averry's Avatar
    i'm paying the same amount per month whether i get it subsidized or unsubsidized, so how am i paying more for going with the same monthly service charge and a discounted phone? the price is the same, except you sign a contract, which idc about since i am staying with at&t and would be paying that amount no matter what.

    what carrier are you with? if they're charging you more for your MSC for a discounted phone, i hope you aren't handing cash to the at&t store clerk to pay your bill every month... lol.
    DUDE! OKAY.

    WE ARE GETTING SCREWED.

    They've CONNED everybody, including you, into their little subsidized model. So yes, you PAY the same amount whether you get it unsubsidized or not. BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT WAY. It's a screw job.

    You think you're getting a good deal by getting a free phone, but it's just chump change compared to what you give them over a two year contract.
    04-16-2011 10:54 PM
  14. Duvi's Avatar
    DUDE! OKAY.

    WE ARE GETTING SCREWED.

    They've CONNED everybody, including you, into their little subsidized model. So yes, you PAY the same amount whether you get it unsubsidized or not. BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT WAY. It's a screw job.

    You think you're getting a good deal by getting a free phone, but it's just chump change compared to what you give them over a two year contract.
    they definitely didn't brainwash me... i worked for at&t as a manager. i've seen the prices in other countries. unlimited charges is the only unlimited they ever see.

    people forget that they have to pay us managers.... they have to pay the reps. they have to pay for R&D. they have to pay for new towers. they have to pay for phone exclusives. they have to pay for new stores.

    and if you compare other countries, we are cheaper. you ever traveled up north to canada? 3 year contracts! go check out their individual plan for $60 that give you 300 minutes and 500mb of data.

    you know what happens to companies that choose to sell these plans for ridiculously low prices? they get bought out by at&t (R.I.P. T-mobile). lol.

    and even if prices were higher for subsidy, who wouldn't want to pay $10/extra per month over 2 years versus paying $200 more for a phone in one shot? maybe you... but you'd be in the minority. i have the cash, but i rather not.

    ____________________________________

    but to get back on topic... i do think Mango will be released this year, but do not see any Nokia devices in the U.S. being released this year. possible, but knowing at&t very well, i think it's unlikely. i remember when one of the other managers that loved nokias as much as i did (we both had 6682 smartphones back then) had asked why the high-end nokias didn't come to the U.S. and/or at&t like they are in Europe and the response had to do with disagreements in the pricing of these devices. In Europe, people buy unsubsidized phones regularly without a fuss. in the U.S., the average subscriber will not pay more than $200-$250 for a device.
    04-16-2011 11:25 PM
  15. Averry's Avatar
    they definitely didn't brainwash me... i worked for at&t as a manager. i've seen the prices in other countries. unlimited charges is the only unlimited they ever see.

    people forget that they have to pay us managers.... they have to pay the reps. they have to pay for R&D. they have to pay for new towers. they have to pay for phone exclusives. they have to pay for new stores.

    and if you compare other countries, we are cheaper. you ever traveled up north to canada? 3 year contracts! go check out their individual plan for $60 that give you 300 minutes and 500mb of data.

    you know what happens to companies that choose to sell these plans for ridiculously low prices? they get bought out by at&t (R.I.P. T-mobile). lol.

    and even if prices were higher for subsidy, who wouldn't want to pay $10/extra per month over 2 years versus paying $200 more for a phone in one shot? maybe you... but you'd be in the minority. i have the cash, but i rather not.

    ____________________________________

    but to get back on topic... i do think Mango will be released this year, but do not see any Nokia devices in the U.S. being released this year. possible, but knowing at&t very well, i think it's unlikely. i remember when one of the other managers that loved nokias as much as i did (we both had 6682 smartphones back then) had asked why the high-end nokias didn't come to the U.S. and/or at&t like they are in Europe and the response had to do with disagreements in the pricing of these devices. In Europe, people buy unsubsidized phones regularly without a fuss. in the U.S., the average subscriber will not pay more than $200-$250 for a device.

    Yeah, they have to pay every body, yada yada.

    But you won't get me to concede that they don't suck, when 1000 text messages is $10, and 2 GB of data is $20.

    What's a text message, like a few kb? If you payed as much for 2 GB of data as we did for texts, it'd be a thousand dollars a month.....how is that justified? How are they separate? I'd love to use Google voice, but using Google voice to make every call or text just isn't as easy to use. I want to have more flexibility with my devices. Their whole mantra has been designed to get people on Contracts. If you don't get the devices subsidized, you get punished by paying the same prices. If you do get the prices subsidized, you find yourself locked down under contract.

    It's one big anti-consumer gambit, and the carriers really don't even compete with each other, it's more like collusion. The fact that you worked at AT&T doesn't make you more likely to be critical, it makes you more likely to drink their Kool-Ade. You want to defend the managers, and the towers, and the employees, but you don't seem worried that they took all the money they've taken from ridiculous text message prices to drop $40 billion on the only other GSM competition in the US there by further destroying more consumer choice.

    I say all this after I ditched Verizon for AT&T. It's not like I have any particular vendetta for AT&T.
    04-16-2011 11:46 PM
  16. Luisraul924's Avatar
    I don't think the reason carriers "delay" updates is to sell more phones. How many unsubsidized phones do you think the carriers sell? I'd think most people have subsidized phones.

    I'm on AT&T and they haven't pushed NoDo yet. If the sell more phones logic was true there'd be a NoDo WP7 waiting for me on AT&T. But as it stands, I'd have to change carriers to get NoDo. So it actually hurts them or doesn't make a difference.

    Well NoDo makes sense now that they said why they took so long with that new "wispr" thing they got going is pretty cool... However given that they did try and push it as soon as possible (they could've just as easily waited until the HTC Surround was finished to release all updates simultaneously but they didn't which kinda shows that they're trying to get it out there. You are correct on the subsidized phones being the majority of preference for subscribers, but think about it, for all the people that did get a WP7 device when they launched, last November... That'll probably be the same time frame that mango launches so the initial buyers will be eligible for an early upgrade, with new devices coming out before the update, it'll probably entice those early adopters to upgrade early.
    04-17-2011 12:53 AM
  17. wheelerk's Avatar
    I'm holding out until the "pineapple" update.
    Not a valid name...must end in "O" and doesn't have to be fruit. :-) I believe the next name after Mango will be Apollo.
    04-17-2011 04:17 PM
  18. Averry's Avatar
    Not a valid name...must end in "O" and doesn't have to be fruit. :-) I believe the next name after Mango will be Apollo.
    Maybe the next update should be called Juggalo.
    04-17-2011 06:01 PM
  19. Luisraul924's Avatar
    If its Apollo it better be b!tchin cuz that name sounds rad!

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    04-17-2011 06:40 PM
  20. Michael-Dallas's Avatar
    they definitely didn't brainwash me... i worked for at&t as a manager. i've seen the prices in other countries. unlimited charges is the only unlimited they ever see.

    people forget that they have to pay us managers.... they have to pay the reps. they have to pay for R&D. they have to pay for new towers. they have to pay for phone exclusives. they have to pay for new stores.

    and if you compare other countries, we are cheaper. you ever traveled up north to canada? 3 year contracts! go check out their individual plan for $60 that give you 300 minutes and 500mb of data.
    I'll throw out this data point - I have 2 co-workers in my office from Shanghai (for 6 weeks). I asked how much they pay for their wireless service and they pay $10/mo for voice, 300MB of data, and 100 text messages.

    Also, they do not pay for incoming calls, just outgoing calls.

    And they bought their iphone 4 when they went to visit one of our vendors in Canada late last year for a whopping $700USD + tax.

    Michael.
    04-19-2011 01:35 PM
  21. Averry's Avatar
    It's important to remember, the United States simply rapes Canada because they can.

    Also, the Canadian government hasn't been to kind to internet consumers in their country. I like the FCC here wants to take a proactive role in protecting certain rights, but I'm also afraid that it could go to far.

    Republicans are trying to shoot down the FCC mandates, mandates that I agree with, but I also agree with the Republicans that the government shouldn't mess with the internet. On this bill, I say yes, I just wish you didn't have to worry about the Government not taking a sensible approach in the future when it comes to present legislation.
    04-19-2011 01:58 PM
  22. Ivan006's Avatar
    If its Apollo it better be b!tchin cuz that name sounds rad!

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    I agree. If it's not good, then they better call it "Tango".
    04-19-2011 02:14 PM
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