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  1. Kibosh's Avatar
    Appearently not many knew about this, but is reported before. The case is simple. When the phone is locked, you can still turn it off with holding the power button. Just lock your phone and hold the button. You will see what happens.

    It's not a hardware issue, it's just like that. So when you carry your phone in your pocket, you take a sit in your car, it can be that the button is pushed inside your pocket. Result, phone turning off and many times also back on again and waiting for you to type your pin. This is very frustrating!

    It probably will depend if you have a sleave around your phone, or if the button is a little inside. I have the Mozart where the button is just on top and easy to push.

    The solution, disable the power off function when the phone is locked. How hard can it be to fix this?

    I always carried my phones around in my pocket, and this is the first one that actually is able to turn itself off. And nope, I don't wear thight pants with very small pockets. My avatar yes :)

    It's just one of those little stupid things that Microsoft didn't think about. Normally I would say no problem, fix it with an update, but nope. They didn't. It was already reported 10th of November 2010 and still it is like this.

    Here are some links:
    Power button still active when device is locked - Microsoft Answers

    How can I configure Samsung Focus so that it won't power off when - Microsoft Answers

    PS: I created this thread as a response to the comments in the article appcelerator because I can't comment anymore: Appcelerator / IDC Quarterly Mobile Developers Survey Released | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews
    Last edited by Kibosh; 04-29-2011 at 10:53 AM.
    04-27-2011 11:04 AM
  2. enahs555's Avatar
    I am always a pocket man my self. I use the Samsung Focus, never had an issue. It totally depends on the phone, and I would blame the phone manufactures for making such an easy to push power off button.

    I would HATE it if the power button did not work when the phone was locked. I want to be able to turn my phone off whenever I want, including lock screen. I can think of quite a few valid times for that.
    04-27-2011 11:42 AM
  3. HeyCori's Avatar
    If anyone is routinely having issues with their phone cutting off in their pockets due to the power button, then they should look into getting new pants or exchanging the phone. For most I think it's a non-issue.
    04-27-2011 11:48 AM
  4. cdook's Avatar
    If anyone is routinely having issues with their phone cutting off in their pockets due to the power button, then they should look into getting new pants or exchanging the phone. For most I think it's a non-issue.
    I agree. I can't even picture how the power button gets pressed in your pocket unless you're sitting on your phone or accidently press and hold it with your hand.
    04-28-2011 09:18 AM
  5. Kibosh's Avatar
    So it comes to that, when you buy a phone, you actually have to watch out on how the power button is positioned? This can't be the idea!

    @enahs555: You say you can think off situations where it is better to be able to turn off the phone immediately without the need to unlock it first. Please share because I can't find a reason where unlocking before turning off is a hastle. + the post at ms.answers was made by a person owning a Samsung Focus, the same phone as you. He surely didn't report this for fun. I have the Mozart and the button is easy to reach.

    @Figure 8 Dash: For you it's a non issue, but I'm sure many find this an issue. There are more WP7 users around the world then on these forums. We probably will never know how many find it an issue.


    And with all others phones you have to unlock it first. That's the thing! MS just didn't think about it.

    The others:
    -----------
    - Nokia smartphone: when it's locked, it is locked. No matter what you do with the power button. Don't know the brand, it was my boss his bussiness phone.
    - Samsung Omnia W6.5 smartphone: Locked is locked, no turning off. Gives you the screen to unlock it first.
    - Normal Nokia phone: No power off untill it is unlocked.

    That's all the phones I was able to get my hands on. But I'm pretty sure it's only the WP7 phones that have this "feature/mistake".

    Sry guy's, you didn't give me a reason to buy new pants. ;)
    Last edited by Kibosh; 04-28-2011 at 11:30 AM.
    04-28-2011 11:21 AM
  6. enahs555's Avatar
    As I said, I would NOT want to power button to be turned off, ever. What do you do if it is locked and the system crashes or freezes? Ohh, you have to take out the battery!


    Happened every so often with my previous Android phone, because it turned off power button when locked.

    What if I want/need to turn the phone off as quickly as possible, and not have to unlock and type in my pin? Say I am in a movie or planetarium show, and I realized I did not mute my phone or the vibrating sound I feel is to loud, so I just want to turn it off. Ohh wait, the power button is locked so I have to unlock the phone and in those dark conditions (especially a planetarium) I have to light up a damn flash light to turn it off. That is just rude and annoying. What if it is at the start of the Zombie apocalypse and the technology infrastructure is still working, but you are trying to hide from a killer zombie in a dark place, and want to turn off your phone so the sound does not attract him encase someone calls (which, is very likely in the situation!), so you want to turn your phone off. Ohh wait, you have to unlock it and shine a flash light, the zombie sees it and comes and turns you into a zombie too! You have to be prepared for these kinds of things!

    I am sorry, but I never want any consumer device to dictate to me when I can and can not turn it off. Yes, warn me it is updating and I should not turn it off, etc. But no, disabling the power button at the lock screen is just silly IMHO.


    So tell me, in all four of the scenarios I provided, would you not want to be able to turn off your phone without unlocking first (or can not unlock)? Honestly.
    Last edited by enahs555; 04-28-2011 at 12:03 PM.
    04-28-2011 11:55 AM
  7. Kibosh's Avatar
    As I said, I would NOT want to power button to be turned off, ever. What do you do if it is locked and the system crashes or freezes? Ohh, you have to take out the battery!
    There you go, take out the battery like you said. But then, the phone shouldn't crash, and to be honest, my Mozart didn't yet after the NoDo, so good points go to MS for that. And if it does, it's already a pain.

    What if I want/need to turn the phone off as quickly as possible, and not have to unlock and type in my pin? Say I am in a movie or planetarium show, and I realized I did not mute my phone or the vibrating sound I feel is to loud, so I just want to turn it off. Ohh wait, the power button is locked so I have to unlock the phone and in those dark conditions (especially a planetarium) I have to light up a damn flash light to turn it off.
    Really? Sry, but I can unlock my phone blind. And for the light, hold your hand over it or turn it to yourself.

    I am sorry, but I never want any consumer device to dictate to me when I can and can not turn it off. Yes, warn me it is updating and I should not turn it off, etc. But no, disabling the power button at the lock screen is just silly IMHO.
    All other phones you owned did dictate it then... You said it yourself, even Androids can not be turned off when locked. Only need to check the iPhone but I'm sure it's the same there, first unlock and then turn off. So we have the normal cellphones, androids, old WP6.5 smartphones, Nokia smartphones,... all need to be unlocked first.

    To be honest: None off the points you gave can make good to the fact that my mozart turns itself off from time to time making me miss calls. It is still a phone in the first place.

    I'm also sure that ALL those other phone OEM's did do it for a reason, first unlock and then turn off. Damn, it's this way with all of them... Come on... I never knew it otherwhile! Until now that my Mozart turns itself off and I started to think if this is normal behaviour? Nope it's not.

    But I'm not a difficult person. Let MS make it into a setting then, so each one can deside for himself. Only happy customers then.
    Last edited by Kibosh; 04-28-2011 at 12:28 PM.
    04-28-2011 12:04 PM
  8. enahs555's Avatar
    Other people smoke crack, does not mean I should. And, that was the only phone I ever had that did it when on lock screen, all other phones did not, so that point is kinda irrelevant and circumstantial.

    I will coincide that I would be just fine if it was an option.

    But I gotta ask, how do you hold your hand over it and still use the touch screen? You can block some of the light, but not the light. The point is, there are situations where it would be totaly understandable to want to turn off the phone without unlocking; there is no point in arguing how much light one could prevent with ones hand.

    And again, just cause you can unlock your phone blind does not mean everybody can, this is all circumstantial stuff.

    And taking out the battery is the worst possible option, you have to remove a case if you have it, etc. Taking out the battery is a huge sign of software failure, but you are happy with that? This is sign of failure way beyond a lockup or freeze.


    As I said, I would compromise on your option point. But I still blame the phone manufacture. Or maybe some buttons are defective and to easy to push on some phones.
    04-28-2011 12:55 PM
  9. Kibosh's Avatar
    Other people smoke crack, does not mean I should. And, that was the only phone I ever had that did it when on lock screen, all other phones did not, so that point is kinda irrelevant and circumstantial.
    Please share which phones didn't then,... There are phones where you can choose when it should lock or not. But when it's locked, you can't turn it off before you unlock it. When you choose that it doesn't lock, well it's what it says, it's just not locked and you can do everything. And it's an option, something that would help also here, like your next point.

    I will coincide that I would be just fine if it was an option.
    Something we can agree then

    But I gotta ask, how do you hold your hand over it and still use the touch screen? You can block some of the light, but not the light. The point is, there are situations where it would be totaly understandable to want to turn off the phone without unlocking; there is no point in arguing how much light one could prevent with ones hand.
    I have two hands. Sry, this just doesn't way up against the fact of having missed calls which are sometimes important.

    And again, just cause you can unlock your phone blind does not mean everybody can, this is all circumstantial stuff.
    Maybe not, if you have it just for a day. But I'm sure that after a week or two anyone can turn there phone off without thinking.

    And taking out the battery is the worst possible option, you have to remove a case if you have it, etc. Taking out the battery is a huge sign of software failure, but you are happy with that? This is sign of failure way beyond a lockup or freeze.
    Yep, taking out the battery is in deed a hugh sign of software failure. A kind off failure that shouldn't happen in the first reason. And when it happens often, I'm sure the first unlock won't be your frustration.

    As I said, I would compromise on your option point. But I still blame the phone manufacture. Or maybe some buttons are defective and to easy to push on some phones.
    Don't know what you mean here: push on some phones?
    I'm not pushing anything, just defending my case. If that is what you mean.

    All other phones, untill you actually can prove there are other non WP7 phones without option, are first unlock and then turn-off! We had Nokia, Android, still to check Blackberry and iPhone. And if it's not all off them, who knows, the majority then. But the point here is: why all (or the majority then) others are then made like this? Just for fun?

    I made my first post to point out the fact on how it is. That's all. Just because other potential buyers are aware before they buy a WP7 phone, this can be a problem.
    Last edited by Kibosh; 04-29-2011 at 11:00 AM.
    04-28-2011 01:24 PM
  10. enahs555's Avatar
    I mean easy to push, as in too easy to push the button down. And so if it is to easy to push the button down, i.e. hair trigger, then it would easily get turned off in pocket.


    My girlfriends Motorola Flipout (Android), can be turned off while locked. My Tilt 2 (WinMo 6.5) can be turned off while locked. I am not gonna go searching for anymore devices, not my job. Just two phones I currently also use as of right now, that can be turned off while locked. And I love em for that!
    04-28-2011 01:30 PM
  11. Kibosh's Avatar
    My girlfriends Motorola Flipout (Android), can be turned off while locked. My Tilt 2 (WinMo 6.5) can be turned off while locked. I am not gonna go searching for anymore devices, not my job. Just two phones I currently also use as of right now, that can be turned off while locked. And I love em for that!
    Weird? Their manuals tell a different story. Flipout gives a menu, and with the other you need to confirm + you need to put the display back on first. None off the two just turn off while locked. That's what I found about them. Who to believe?

    Power & Sleep key: Press and hold power to open the power key menu, where you can choose Silent mode, turn off your network connection (Airplane mode) or just power off
    To turn off the power:
    1. If the display is off, press the END/POWER button to turn the display back on.
    2. Press and hold the END/POWER button for a few seconds.
    3. Tap Yes when prompted.
    That's what I read about those 2 devices with the links below. Not the same as WP7, they don't just turn off.

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=GtoA-cGI

    http://member.america.htc.com/downlo...ium_ATT_UM.pdf

    I'm still not buying new pants!
    Last edited by Kibosh; 04-28-2011 at 02:12 PM.
    04-28-2011 01:56 PM
  12. enahs555's Avatar
    Who knows what the original Tilt 2 rom does, it is WinMO 6.1. I was running a custom ROM with 6.5. But for her Flipout, hold button down and it turns off, locked or not.
    04-28-2011 02:16 PM
  13. Kibosh's Avatar
    Really? 6.1? A1 Appendix in manual say WM6.5... AND... http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/...=mncolBtm;rnav
    04-28-2011 02:36 PM
  14. jimski's Avatar
    Look, WP7 is all about getting in, getting out and moving on. That includes not dealing with dialog boxes to power off your phone. While you may have a problem with that because of your unique pants or physique, its honestly the first I have heard of it with the thousands of posts I have been reading since October. WP7 does not need more options to turn off/on insignificant features. That simply overcomplicates the OS. My bet is much fewer than 1% of WP7 users would agree with your position and you know what they say, "you can't please all of the people all of the time".

    So, either get a hard shell for your Mozart to protect your power and other buttons (like camera) in you unusual pocket, sell your phone on eBay and find another WP7 phone with a more desirable power button, or move on. Too much other important stuff to deal with in this OS than focusing on the power button, which I think works just fine.

    Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
    04-28-2011 03:59 PM
  15. Dave Blake's Avatar
    I find it hard to believe this is a feature on a business phone, under no circumstances should you be able to accidentally power off your phone. Fine if it is a feature give me the ability to turn it off. I think this has to be this way for the time being and that MS will implement changes to make this an option. I carry my arrive in a pouch so it has not an issue for me so far but I am glad this was posted because I never realised this could happen. I hope that this changes and I hope that MS does something that will work for us all.

    My $.02
    Dave
    04-28-2011 09:27 PM
  16. eric12341's Avatar
    this is the most ridiculous complaint yet. and there's nothing MS can really do about it and thus should not be blamed. shouldn't be putting touchscreen phones in jean pockets anyway
    04-29-2011 04:30 AM
  17. Kibosh's Avatar
    ... under no circumstances should you be able to accidentally power off your phone. ... but I am glad this was posted because I never realised this could happen. ...

    My $.02
    Dave
    You're welcome, and finally someone not telling me to go and change my pants
    04-29-2011 10:50 AM
  18. VernonEL's Avatar
    What if it is at the start of the Zombie apocalypse and the technology infrastructure is still working, but you are trying to hide from a killer zombie in a dark place, and want to turn off your phone so the sound does not attract him encase someone calls (which, is very likely in the situation!), so you want to turn your phone off. Ohh wait, you have to unlock it and shine a flash light, the zombie sees it and comes and turns you into a zombie too! You have to be prepared for these kinds of things!
    Luckily this has only happened to me three times. I was grateful for the option to turn my phone off in times of impending doom. :-| (That's supposed to be sarcasm.)

    Seriously though, my Quantum will turn off from a locked state too, but I only know this because I just tried it two minutes ago. I carry it around in my jeans pocket, but always take it out when getting into my pick-up, and usually take it out when sitting down at my desk.

    My stongest opinion on the matter is this:

    This forum will lose credibility if this type of problem is what people focus on. It certainly can still be considered relevant and on-topic, but if something this small (IMO) is even brought up, it needs to be approached with maturity and a good dose of levity. Some people actually read these kinds of forums for helpful information and a little bit of intelligent, light-hearted entertainment. Not so much the rants.

    JMHO
    Dave Blake likes this.
    04-29-2011 12:39 PM
  19. VernonEL's Avatar
    I had assumed that I had shut my phone down from a locked state, but it just rebooted it. Strange.
    04-29-2011 12:41 PM
  20. Kibosh's Avatar
    Was your phone in a charger? It will auto reboot then.

    This forum will lose credibility if this type of problem is what people focus on. It certainly can still be considered relevant and on-topic, but if something this small (IMO) is even brought up, it needs to be approached with maturity and a good dose of levity. Some people actually read these kinds of forums for helpful information and a little bit of intelligent, light-hearted entertainment. Not so much the rants.

    JMHO
    I Completely agree.

    The reason I posted this was in the first place to let people know that this good happen. Especially with a device like the Mozart where the button is on top and easy to reach. But I must admit I wasn't happy to read about the reactions, change pants, my phisics,... , so I probably went into "defence mode", so I apologize to the bystanders if I went to far in defence.

    So now back on-topic:

    Is it a big issue? For some no, for some maybe and for some like me, yes. Even a bigger issue then you might expect. Let me explain why this is very frustrating:

    During the day, I have to thrust my phone. I'm a industrial automation programmer (and there are many) meaning I sometimes take strange positions in and around production machines. Checking if that sensor is positioned right, does that cylinder move fast enough, changing wires in an electric cabinet, etc...

    Because the phone is expensive, I have it in my pocket at those times so it can't be stolen. You will be amazed what get's stolen at company's each day. Also, when starting up a machine, it's clear that my head is into other stuff then always thinking, is my phone still on? It even turns off while just seated in my car, or at the desk (not all the time off course). I can take it out, which I do untill it is fixed, for the normal desk work, but during my other duties, I just can't, like explained above.

    Now I really don't care how Microsoft fixes this: with an option, some detection it is in a pocket,... I leave that to MS. But like "Big D5" pointed out. A bussiness phone should not be able to turn itself off.
    It can be that a client calls me for support, meaning something happened to a production machine which is now not producing, which results in big losses for that company. I need to know immediately if that person called off course, so I can assist the local engineer where he should look. Time is really money at those moments.

    Another reason I bought a HTC came also from my work. The 3G network isn't yet what it should be in Belgium. So being around in a production area, 3G is useless. I had a Samsung before and I could not turn off the 3G, resulting in a hot phone with empty battery. With HTC phones, you can turn this off. So my options for a phone are also limited because of this.

    I hope this post will help to clarify why this can be a big issue. When people use their phone for business, they need to able to thrust it. I really believe Microsoft can loose potential customers because off this. Yes, for many it can look like some small stupid thing, but it can have a bad outcome for others. And because it is this small, I'm dissapointed at MS that this wasn't taken care of with NoDo, being that it was already reported at the 10th November 2010.

    There you go, my little life story why this is important for me. Maybe I should have posted this earlier ;)
    Last edited by Kibosh; 04-30-2011 at 04:37 AM.
    04-30-2011 04:04 AM
  21. jimski's Avatar
    I know this is not what you want to hear Kibosh, and not even sure if its available for your phone, but have you considered a hard shell. I have a hard shell on my HTC Surround and the power button is very well protected. Sure it will cost a few $$ and add some bulk (not much really), but it will immediately solve your problem and offer some added protection. And if you don't like it after 2-3 days, return. If Microsoft ever gets around to addressing this, my bet is it will probably be after Mango, so you have a very long wait.

    Sent from my T8788 using Board Express
    04-30-2011 12:16 PM
  22. Kibosh's Avatar
    It's indeed a solution, and you are right, not the one I want at the end.
    It could do for the moment and as a fact, I was looking into it. But I find the Mozart a good looking phone and putting a shell around it, takes that away.

    But you are right, for the moment I need a solution until MS adresses this.
    04-30-2011 12:37 PM
  23. Exomondo's Avatar
    I hadn't noticed this but it came in handy on the weekend when i was at a wedding and realised i had forgotten to turn my phone off. Didn't have to take it out or unlock it or anything, just hand in pocket and hold the power button for a few seconds.
    05-02-2011 01:34 AM
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