06-08-2011 09:22 AM
47 12
tools
  1. Winterfang's Avatar
    Now I get it. I don't mind now though, I just though it was like a tag I had to live forever with. Phew =D.
    05-31-2011 05:00 PM
  2. raremage's Avatar
    i was there in the beginning... had the original iPhone on release day... yeah $600 bones for a device, a 2 year contract and no apps, custom ringtones or MMS! was i mad? no as i did my research and knew what the device had and was capable of.

    so my point is that your main gripes were things research could have saved you the trouble of having.
    I rally hate this argument when folks come and complain about lack of features (in any device, not just WinPhone). These are consumer focused devices, and while techie types probably did some researc and have an idea of what they are getting themselves into, the general consumer populae does not.

    I see the same thing on the Blackberry Playbook forums, where people are constantly defending the limitations of the device with "you should have known better." The fact is, it's reasonable for people to have an expectation that the devices they are purchasing are going to do what they were supposed to do, without the need to search the 'net for a list of bugs or missing features.

    In the case of Windows Phone, Microsoft is advertising the devices hard as direct competitors to every other smartphone out there. I find it reasonable for people to pick one up and only then discover limitations that they did not have to deal with in iOS and/or Android. If anything, this sort of reaction should drive Microsoft, RIM, Google, etcetera to improve their products.
    06-01-2011 05:59 AM
  3. SolarPlexus's Avatar
    I rally hate this argument when folks come and complain about lack of features (in any device, not just WinPhone). These are consumer focused devices, and while techie types probably did some researc and have an idea of what they are getting themselves into, the general consumer populae does not.

    I see the same thing on the Blackberry Playbook forums, where people are constantly defending the limitations of the device with "you should have known better." The fact is, it's reasonable for people to have an expectation that the devices they are purchasing are going to do what they were supposed to do, without the need to search the 'net for a list of bugs or missing features.

    In the case of Windows Phone, Microsoft is advertising the devices hard as direct competitors to every other smartphone out there. I find it reasonable for people to pick one up and only then discover limitations that they did not have to deal with in iOS and/or Android. If anything, this sort of reaction should drive Microsoft, RIM, Google, etcetera to improve their products.
    I tend to remember MS' Advertisements setting Windows Phone APART from the other smartphone OSs. They did not advertise one single thing that the phone doesn't do WELL.
    The problem is that folks are expecting iClones and have something in their head. Microsoft has come a long way to shake things up. I mean, seriously all you have to do is spend 30 seconds with the phone to realize it is completely different than iPhone, Android, WebOS, etc. The whole Grid of Icons/App paradigm is as old as the Palm OS. This is a fresh new interface and new way of thinking. (well at least I cannot think of anything similar off the top of my head)
    Microsoft wa spushing this phone HARD as something that just fits into one's lifestyle. you get in and out and go on with your life.
    I can only think of 2 major mis-steps. The NoDo Update and the SD Card mis-understanding.

    I guess the point I am trying to make is that if the community as a whole (users and developers) really use the phone, as MS designed it, then I think the complaints would cease. I was watching Windows Weekly and Paul made the point that Developers really do not embrace the Hub system. This is a perfect example. The thing that first drew me to WP was the integratino of information. Blackberry is the only competitor that comes remotely close (well...maybe HTC Sense on top of Android is a distant 3rd). But seeing that most devs are not embracing the concept is a bit dishearting.
    Anyway, I am really hoping that MS doesn't morph their amazing system into another iClone. If I wanted a grid of icons in an app centric enviroment, I would have purchased an Android phone. (I also said the same about Blackberry before they started their march toward being an iClone)
    06-01-2011 06:42 AM
  4. Luisraul924's Avatar
    I rally hate this argument when folks come and complain about lack of features (in any device, not just WinPhone). These are consumer focused devices, and while techie types probably did some researc and have an idea of what they are getting themselves into, the general consumer populae does not.

    I see the same thing on the Blackberry Playbook forums, where people are constantly defending the limitations of the device with "you should have known better." The fact is, it's reasonable for people to have an expectation that the devices they are purchasing are going to do what they were supposed to do, without the need to search the 'net for a list of bugs or missing features.

    In the case of Windows Phone, Microsoft is advertising the devices hard as direct competitors to every other smartphone out there. I find it reasonable for people to pick one up and only then discover limitations that they did not have to deal with in iOS and/or Android. If anything, this sort of reaction should drive Microsoft, RIM, Google, etcetera to improve their products.
    Dude really? Your saying that just because someone isn't a techie or geek that they won't know how to do research on a smartphone? Or that the complete lack of research can be excused by saying that your not a geek? No. That's a stupid assumption. If you're about to commit yourself to a two year contract where canceling results in a ~$200 fine, or even if you keep your service you're still spending a couple thousand dollars for those two years and on top of the $150-$250 up front cost of the "discounted" smartphone... This is real money for the "average" consumer, saying "oh I'm not a geek/nerd/techie" is the most idiotic excuse ever, and if one were to use that excuse, god help them in whatever else it is they do in life.
    06-01-2011 08:41 AM
  5. Duvi's Avatar
    I rally hate this argument when folks come and complain about lack of features (in any device, not just WinPhone). These are consumer focused devices, and while techie types probably did some researc and have an idea of what they are getting themselves into, the general consumer populae does not.

    I see the same thing on the Blackberry Playbook forums, where people are constantly defending the limitations of the device with "you should have known better." The fact is, it's reasonable for people to have an expectation that the devices they are purchasing are going to do what they were supposed to do, without the need to search the 'net for a list of bugs or missing features.

    In the case of Windows Phone, Microsoft is advertising the devices hard as direct competitors to every other smartphone out there. I find it reasonable for people to pick one up and only then discover limitations that they did not have to deal with in iOS and/or Android. If anything, this sort of reaction should drive Microsoft, RIM, Google, etcetera to improve their products.
    There are quite a few flaws in your argument. The user above has had the device for 4-5 months (as he/she stated) and you mean to tell me, even without research, he/she did not see these issues arise within the buyer's remorse? Or that since it wasn't there, didn't think to google or ask about these features/apps?

    Also, MS has never stated it was, nor do they want to be like Apple or Android. In fact, if they went that route, they would lose as there would be no reason for anyone to jump off iOS or Android for a windows phone. Being a direct competitor doesn't mean they have to be like them... they can go another route (get in and get out) and compete. It's almost like you're saying they have to have mimic Apple/Android to compete and be successful.

    The common user who doesn't do research and then spends hundreds on a device (signing a contract) is not too bright and I will never let that be an excuse for any consumer/developer to EVER use.

    If they are already with iOS and Android, what made them make the switch without doing research? Did it look good and they decided to buy it?

    I worked as a manager for AT&T in business customer services and even companies didn't do research and would buy what looked good. Then they would then find out how unsecured certain platforms were like Android or how inconsistent it was and not being able to connect to their Exchange server. So, because the person doing the ordering for the company didn't do research, are you giving them a pass because they're not a tech savy person, losing thousands of the company's $$$ because they ordered what they thought looked good?
    EJNelly likes this.
    06-01-2011 11:49 AM
  6. ikkf's Avatar
    I got the Horoscope match app. Yeah is silly but so am I.

    speaking of sillyness. I just hover the mouse to my picture and bellow the ""Thanked X times in Y post" there's a green square, I hover on top of it and it says I'm an *****...

    >_> that's real nice WP central.
    doh, same thing happened to me. wonder what i said that offended someone that much...?
    06-01-2011 12:37 PM
  7. dtboos's Avatar
    Don't take it to heart. As you get more good rep, it cycles through different 'status's'.

    Thats just the low one ;)
    06-01-2011 12:52 PM
  8. ikkf's Avatar
    ah ok, thanks for clearing that up.

    i wonder if something more colorful like 'village *****' would be better :)
    06-02-2011 08:25 AM
  9. Rhody#WP's Avatar
    People are more likely to give bad rep than good rep. Some of the most helpful people on this forum are "unknown quantities." If you're an ***** (like me), that just means someone has too much time on his hands.
    06-02-2011 10:16 AM
  10. Rich Edmonds's Avatar
    I don't understand why people have this kind of problem with the platform, it's brand spanking new and a different approach by Microsoft which they've had to master (take a look at the updates mess), but they will get there and IMO have been very transparent with problems. Albeit not with the Samsung Omnia and Focus issues but that's down to Samsung not Microsoft.

    Mango will be hitting the devices late this fall, and it's promised to be a much more smoother process (until it reaches carriers of course).
    06-03-2011 07:35 AM
  11. Luisraul924's Avatar
    Mango will be hitting the devices late this fall, and it's promised to be a much more smoother process (until it reaches carriers of course).
    Well the guy in charge of one of the Microsofts in Europe said he strongly feels that it's gonna be coming out mid October. Sounds reasonable, given that the update is just about to be RTM so say they (the OEMs) finish optimizing the update for the devices at the end of July, then the carriers have about two and a half months of testing... I'd say that's a good amount of time for their testing.
    06-03-2011 11:11 AM
  12. jeffa00's Avatar
    I'm really looking forward to the Mango update. Just getting IE 9 instead of IE 7 as the browser will be huge.

    The app situation is troublesome. One of the big problems is that developers are increasingly of the opinion that they can't make money on this platform. I'm a developer and run a user group for developers, so I'm connected to lots of devs, and hear their gripes.

    One of the biggest problems (from the dev perspective) is that the catalog doesn't work well. You can get to the top 20 - 50 apps pretty easily but then it becomes painful to keep scrolling/waiting/freezing. That means your app quickly drops off the radar of most folks. If you aren't in the top 100 apps, you don't exist.

    I have one app in the catalog at the moment and it hasn't even been downloaded once since back in April... I have the same app on WebOS and it makes pretty steady progress. In fact I have more SALES of the app on WebOS than DOWNLOADS on WP7. That is pretty discouraging to developers.

    The model that seems to be evolving is that free apps with advertising can make some money, but the only apps that are purchased are the XBox Live games.

    I think WP7 has a good future, but the present is kind of rough.

    Three things need to happen to attract more developers:
    1) Mango needs to ship
    2) Catalog needs to work better
    3) Nokia deal needs to pump in a LOT more users

    I'm hoping those things will all happen.

    jeffa
    06-03-2011 11:35 AM
  13. jeffa00's Avatar
    Doh! I forgot one.

    4) Promo codes.

    As a developer I need to be able to hand out free copies of my app to get people interested and talking about it.

    jeffa
    06-03-2011 11:37 AM
  14. Duvi's Avatar
    Doh! I forgot one.

    4) Promo codes.

    As a developer I need to be able to hand out free copies of my app to get people interested and talking about it.

    jeffa
    Thanks for the insight and I believe they need promo codes as well, to help push apps out there.
    jeffa00 likes this.
    06-03-2011 12:03 PM
  15. dtboos's Avatar
    I'm really looking forward to the Mango update. Just getting IE 9 instead of IE 7 as the browser will be huge.

    The app situation is troublesome. One of the big problems is that developers are increasingly of the opinion that they can't make money on this platform. I'm a developer and run a user group for developers, so I'm connected to lots of devs, and hear their gripes.

    One of the biggest problems (from the dev perspective) is that the catalog doesn't work well. You can get to the top 20 - 50 apps pretty easily but then it becomes painful to keep scrolling/waiting/freezing. That means your app quickly drops off the radar of most folks. If you aren't in the top 100 apps, you don't exist.

    I have one app in the catalog at the moment and it hasn't even been downloaded once since back in April... I have the same app on WebOS and it makes pretty steady progress. In fact I have more SALES of the app on WebOS than DOWNLOADS on WP7. That is pretty discouraging to developers.

    The model that seems to be evolving is that free apps with advertising can make some money, but the only apps that are purchased are the XBox Live games.

    I think WP7 has a good future, but the present is kind of rough.

    Three things need to happen to attract more developers:
    1) Mango needs to ship
    2) Catalog needs to work better
    3) Nokia deal needs to pump in a LOT more users

    I'm hoping those things will all happen.

    jeffa
    1. Mango definitely needs to ship. Can't wait.
    2. Catalog is getting a pretty good revamp with Mango I believe.
    3. Nokia will bring in many users, but I also think just Mango turning this into a feature rich platform, and the most likely new wave of more powerful devices will also turn many on to wp7. I personally know 6 people wanting to move from iPhone4's, but I have told them to wait until Mango as many things are missing atm.

    As far as the promo codes go, I'm not a dev, but didnt' they say something about adding things like Beta, Private Beta, Paid, Free, Trial and all sorts of other types of application cataloging into the market? Did they mention or have they said anything about promo codes for purchases? I know there are promo codes that give you certain packages (like in cocktail flow, for a special drink package they have a promo code area inside the app).

    I do know that wp7 platform has a higher purchase rate conversion after trials/free app downloads, but I do know it can be a bummer if your app isn't easily accessible in search. There also just aren't a ton of users yet. I think Mango will be a very nice place for dev's. Great easy to use development tools, amazing UI, better market and discovery, all the new API's being released, more users & phones.

    Btw, what is your app?
    jeffa00 likes this.
    06-03-2011 12:18 PM
  16. jeffa00's Avatar
    I do know that wp7 platform has a higher purchase rate conversion after trials/free app downloads, but I do know it can be a bummer if your app isn't easily accessible in search. There also just aren't a ton of users yet. I think Mango will be a very nice place for dev's. Great easy to use development tools, amazing UI, better market and discovery, all the new API's being released, more users & phones.

    Btw, what is your app?
    I agree. At the end of the day developers go where they think they can make money.

    I haven't heard anything regarding promo codes. The ones for Cocktail Flow would be in-app from the developer. That would let you access more content once you have the app. I'm talking about I give you a code and you get my app for free. If we had those I'd pop 50 or 100 promo codes here in the forum like I did over at the sister-site PreCentral for WebOS.

    As for my app, it is called Galactic Beacon: Vol 1. It is a collection of science fiction short-stories, essays and comics. You should be able to link to it from my sig or just look under the Books category/Fiction subcategory in the marketplace.

    If you try it, start with the story Sarah. It is my favorite. It is about a one-way trip to Mars.

    My vision for the app was to make a digital only sci fi magazine. I hoped I would make enough money to pay other writers. So far that hasn't happened.

    The trial version has everything the paid version has except the endings to the fiction stories.

    You can also see the comics and read some of the essays on my website: Galactic Beacon Home Page

    I'm really torn whether to continue with it or just move on to making games.

    If I continue, I'll likely convert it to a free app with ads instead of a paid app. My discussions with other devs leads me to think that is the best way to make money on this platform at the moment.
    06-03-2011 12:53 PM
  17. dtboos's Avatar
    Honestly from a business perspective I'd say develop some games for now, and put more time into your apps like Galactic Beacon around the holidays after Mango's been out for a little bit and there's a larger user base. Or ads if you think thats a better way to go. It seems most that are on the platform right now are buying games for the most part, but I know people will be into more things once they've had the phone for a bit longer.

    If you find out anything about ability to use promo codes in the future let us know.
    06-03-2011 01:25 PM
  18. jeffa00's Avatar
    If you find out anything about ability to use promo codes in the future let us know.
    I searched around the developer areas and didn't see anything about promo codes. It started me thinking, however, and I realized that it would be easy to implement my own promo codes. The way the trial mode works is that you just check a flag to see if the user has paid, then turn on or off functionality. One more variable and you could hand out your own promo codes to users who could then unlock the full functionality. The only downside would be people sharing the codes. You would have to come up with your own scheme to limit that. It is possible that Microsoft has rules against doing so. I'll have to check into the rules to see.

    Option B of course, is free app with ads. No need for promo codes. The only downside is that people love winning free stuff. Getting a code for a paid app feels better than just getting a free app...
    06-03-2011 01:47 PM
  19. enahs555's Avatar
    I am making so much more money off ad revenue then paid versions its crazy. Not that I am making much money, but the ratio of one to the other is much higher then I would have imagined.
    06-03-2011 02:04 PM
  20. jeffa00's Avatar
    I am making so much more money off ad revenue then paid versions its crazy. Not that I am making much money, but the ratio of one to the other is much higher then I would have imagined.
    I'm thinking I might give it one more shot with this app as a free, ad supported version. It shouldn't take me long to retro-fit the ads and resubmit. Curious if it would get any action...
    06-03-2011 08:47 PM
  21. canesfan625's Avatar
    tl;dr

    just wait for Mango. APIs open up and the stuff being whined about in the OP will be added.
    06-04-2011 08:52 AM
  22. jeffa00's Avatar
    I'm thinking I might give it one more shot with this app as a free, ad supported version. It shouldn't take me long to retro-fit the ads and resubmit. Curious if it would get any action...
    I decided to start on a game and come back to the anthology app at a later date if it seems worth it. Downloads (on WP7) flatlined back at the first of May. ZERO downloads since then.

    The game is going to be simple so I can test the waters as soon as possible. Casual/indie/puzzle variety. We'll see if I can get traction with it.
    06-08-2011 09:22 AM
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