01-30-2012 08:52 AM
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  1. cckgz4's Avatar
    The alphabetical search is a good substitution for folders (for me)
    11-04-2011 09:01 PM
  2. jdd77's Avatar
    But you already have options. Either pin the tiles to your start screen in a 2x? grid or keep them in the app list organized in folders of first letter. :)
    I do have them pinned to my start screen but it's more because I can't organize them in folders. And you kind of HAVE TO pin things to the start screen because if you didn't, the start screen disappears. I don't understand why wp7 cant at least have the option of folders..just because apple or android has them? Judging by that rationale, wp7 shouldn't be able to make phone calls either, because the other OS's can do that..
    11-04-2011 09:38 PM
  3. electricbopeep's Avatar
    Definitely agree with:
    Higher resolutions (800x480 has become fodder for jokes at this point)
    32 GB storage (64 GB would be nice, but I won't push it)
    Enhanced voice recognition integration
    Enhanced xbox integration (based on the last wpcentral podcast, I think I'll like the xbox remote app because it serves as a media companion and I primarily use my xbox for consuming media)
    Native timer and stopwatch
    LTE
    Native Photo & Video Editing

    If you want folders and hidden apps, get an iPhone...they didn't want to copy that format, so they aren't going to do it now. I think the apps structure is perfect...Games are always in the Games up...Apps in the App hub...if I want Music apps I go to Music then Apps...if I want Photo Apps I go to Pictures then Apps...if I want a misc I go to Apps...or I just say "Open XYZ" and it opens.

    I would appreciate if you refrained from using the "if you want...get an <<insert non-Windows Phone device>>" retort with me. :) I've been following Windows Phone since it was a twinkle in MS's eye; I understand the deliberate choices that the Windows Phone team has made to differentiate WP7 from other platforms. Despite the current app organization being just peachy for you, it is far from perfect. (as an aside, here's some food for thought, because I often see the "it works fine for me, so what's your problem" sentiment here: just as reasonable people can disagree reasonably, reasonable people can differ in use cases reasonably. That is to say that just because it is perfect for you does not mean that it can't be improved; additionally the validity of my concern doesn't hinge on your use case being invalid, and vice-versa)

    Replace my use of the word "folders" with the term "organizational tool" and you'll see what I'm getting at - it's not about WP7 slavishly copying iOS and Adroid as a matter of appeasement; it's about offering the functionality that folders provide, while staying true to the WP7 ethos - which is why I specifically mentioned HUBS. Microsoft originally announce more hubs than what we currently have - http://www.windowscentral.com/window...-and-questions . Having user-customized hubs would provide an extra level of organization, while still mainintining the UI consistency of WP7. Or, as others menioned, they could open up the hubs more to developers.

    Aubreyq mentioned the brand strength issue upthread in reference to MS's perspective on folders; the thing is, there's a possible issue of brand identity from another perspective too. In a Windows Weekly podcast a while back, Paul Thurrott asserted that hubs haven;t lived up to MS original's promise because developers/content-producers don't want their apps to subsumed by hubs, where they exist alongside other apps as means to the hub's end and their brand is diluted in favor of coalescing around a function. They rather be stand-alone apps.

    By the way, I've been using this category hack http://www.windowscentral.com/organi...een-live-tiles for the last 6 months or so and it's helped a good deal with organizing the apps on my start screen but I think there's so much more potential for improvement. I was looking for an app this morning that I don't use frequently - I didn't remember the name (it wasn't something obvious or memorable) so the search and jumplist functions were of no use to me. I started scrolling through my apps but it was too time-consuming. Having enhanced hubs or a "folder-like organizational tool" would have improved my user experience in that case. Yea, there is always another way...MS for now has decided that you swipe UP (unlock) then look at your live tiles.
    That sounds sort of trite and dismissive. BTW, when I say swipe "left" I'm referring to notifications being to the left of the homescreen, not the lock screen. Live tiles provide a different type of information management than notifications that are persistent and dismissable.
    Lock and Live Tile work great for me since it is mostly just "What do I have tonight and what time?". What else would you want while still allowing it to be glance and go??? The week view is all preference and I agree the option should be there.

    Perhaps showing more than 1 appointment at a time on the lock screen - like maybe the next 3 appointments? And scrolling through the next 3 appt's on the live tile similar to how photos scroll vertically on the Photos tile?
    I have a big issue with the voice lady being way too quiet when she reads I texts...I REALLY wish I could make changes to this (I found it in the Diagnosis menu but it is all random numbers I am scared to change)
    Agreed!
    Thumbs up. I want the ringer to turn off automatically when I am at work.
    :D Ditto. I feel like this isn't something I should have worry about! Also, I remember WM having a "vibrate/silent mode during busy times in calendar" option, so if you had a meeting, the phone would automatically change the sound profile. It might be nice to bring that back.


    Wouldn't ever work...when my phone pulls in emails it is typically 2-3 at a time...it would get very cluttered and confusing.
    You're sort of right and I've taken that into consideration. Perhaps there could be an option when creating/editing contacts and groups that allowed for toast notifications for emails from those particular people/groups. (Maybe folder-based but that could be problematic. Maybe the mail live tile could have 2 sides and show the details of the latest message on the flip side). This way, it only happens for messages from select people (could still be problematic depending on individuals' patterns of email usage). I think there's a way to add this functionality while not compromising simplicity. That's the challenge of good design.

    I have never ever once had the need for a forward button on my phone, it would be 100% a waste of space...there is a proper back button...and yes, Find on Page would be nice.
    You are correct about forward. I remembered that you can just go to history, and although it is an extra step, "forward" is needed so infrequently that it's not an issue. I'm upset that they took away "find on page" - that was very useful and it's one of those things that, even if used infrequently, is very helpful in those cases when you do need it (this is what I mean when I refer to their wrong-headed adherence to the 80/20 rule). I also remembered another feature that I'd like - save page for offline viewing.:giggle:

    my Thoughts/Opinions/Answers in Bold.
    I have to agree with electricbopeep about folders. The app structure isn't bad, but it's far from perfect. I have no idea how the iPhone is set up, I've never used one...but scrolling through the list of alphabetical apps you have on wp7, I often wish there was some kind of way to organize everything. And yes the games are automatically stored in the Xbox "folder", so wp7 is 10% there in this area. As you said though, the list works perfect for you...So I think, to make everyone happy, there should be an OPTION in settings that allows you to CHOOSE whether to have "alphabetical list view" or "folder view".
    Yes, the power of OPTIONS is often overlooked. I understand that MS feels that too many options could complicate things but I think there's a way to implement better app organizations that's still very accesible and true to WP7's simplicity.
    Folder and Notifications not a problem anymore IMO like what others replied with in this thread this is what I do

    1st screen = all live tiles with notification support right away i get all my notifications
    2nd screen = all static apps with no live tiles if I need to find anything click on search and bam its there still just as quick as folders.

    Maybe MS should focus on the second screen arrange applications by genre
    I have my apps arranged in a similar way. Search doesn't always give the "bam" effect, especially when you think apps in terms of what they do and not what their name is (and sometimes the two aren't obviously related).

    I guess Finance is the only other one that comes to mind...(Multiple banks) But even still...if I want PNC I click the "P" and if I want Chase I click the "C"...how bass akwords would it be to have to click an "F" to go to finance to open it up to go to Chase? If there wasn't the quick skip, search AND Voice-to-App feature there might be a case for it...
    Business was one of the hubs that was originally announced. Based on how I have my start screen, here are some hubs that I would want that I think would appeal to a great number of consumers: Local, Shopping, Food, Utilities, Navigation, Messaging, Books/Reference. Fitness/Health - these probably line up with the current Marketplace app categories, come to think of it.

    jdd77, I have to say that although I see your point on some of the stuff you'd like to see, folders have NO place in Windows Phone because it's the exact opposite of what Windows Phone is aiming for. Folders are an iOS/Android thing. If I want Netflix, I go to the N, if I want What's App, I go to the W, etc. It doesn't take long. If I want to get to it quicker, I pin it to Start. Clicking on a genre folder and THEN look for the app? No way I want to go back to that.

    I used to be big on organizing my software applications into groups (on my PC), but later found out it slowed me down (e.g. "where did I put application X? Under utilities or productivity?")
    I get what you're saying. It doesn't have be folders per se, as currently implemented in iOS and Android, just offer organizational functionality that search and jumplists can't offer. For some of us, organizing into categories doesn't slow us down. Different strokes for different folks. :)

    I agree with you. I'm not saying either way is better or worse. I think an option would be the best way. But if there was an option to choose between lists or folders, then what would we have to complain about?
    I think it goes beyond folders. I think the Windows Phone team probabaly feels that MS/WinMo lost its way by giving too many options and not taking a stand; that options are the enemy of the ideal. Hopefully they'll realize that form and function can coexist, afterall that's their pitch for WP7.


    We really don't need folders, we need the hubs to be more accessible to 3rd parties.

    The hub for media (currently Music and Videos) should allow you to add the media apps you want to the hub, not just the one that are classified as such and automatically get added.

    Flickr is in my Pictures hub but there are other image viewers that are not - I want to add them (AND take them out of my alphabetical listing, just as games are not in my apps list). Yes, the devs can enable being in the Hub, but I can't as a user.

    Further, I'd like the Win8 'contracts' idea to be extended to Windows Phone, so independent apps can exchange data without any previous knowledge of each other. But who knows, that might be coming.
    Good points.
    MS wants you to use skydrive for mass storage transportation. But I have the same desire to be able to plug in my "thumb drive" phone to a computer and grab what I want. If I am at a library I may not be allowed access to personal storage sites like skydrive. However I may also not be allowed access to file transfers to USB drives.

    A grid of icons is an android and ios and just about every other mobile OS setup. There are plenty to choose from if that is the way you would like to view your apps. I have an iphone and I usually click 2 folders to get to the lesser used apps on my phone. The ones I use every day are on my home screen in a folder I know. If I go to my second page of foldered apps I have no idea where I put the converter tool. Is it in utilities or tools folder? Let me click and find out. I could always go to the search and find it on the first try though. If I cared about the 2 seconds I would save, I might do that. Alphabetical is much easier to find a lesser used app than folders. At least for me.

    Not sure why you would need to delete mass amounts of documents, video, and apps at the same time, but I would not hold your breath on that ability coming to windows phone.



    100% agree with this. I would like to be able to add video streaming apps to the media hub. But then again, its faster to just click the start screen tile I guess.
    I use Windows Live Mesh and I find the Skydrive synced storage setup to be a stumbling block as far as WP7 is concerned. I thought I would be able to keep certain folders synced between my phone and PCs,a la OneNote notebooks. That's not how SkyDrive works in the current WP7 implementation.
    11-04-2011 10:28 PM
  4. electricbopeep's Avatar
    duplicate post
    11-04-2011 10:29 PM
  5. cckgz4's Avatar
    So maybe instead of folders, users can make their own hubs?
    11-04-2011 10:32 PM
  6. electricbopeep's Avatar
    I do have them pinned to my start screen but it's more because I can't organize them in folders. And you kind of HAVE TO pin things to the start screen because if you didn't, the start screen disappears. I don't understand why wp7 cant at least have the option of folders..just because apple or android has them? Judging by that rationale, wp7 shouldn't be able to make phone calls either, because the other OS's can do that..
    this tickled me!

    but really, i can appreciate both sides of the argument. I'm actually an aspiring amateur developer (prior to wp7, I only ever installed cooked roms for winmo; always the diner and never the chef), so it's interesting to hear differing views on usability.
    11-04-2011 10:39 PM
  7. Matthew Mazzenga's Avatar
    A few things I'd like to mention:

    Organization: If we're not going to do folders, how about at least the ability to rename apps? Much like the way you can rename a shortcut in Windows on the desktop. As electricbopeep mentioned, I also experience some "forgetfulness" when it comes to the names of apps, as opposed to their functionality. Example: If I want to check out some of the ringtone apps I have, I may have "Ringtones", "1000 Ringtones", "Free Ringtones", etc (just examples). They're all over the place in the app list. What if I could rename those apps to just "Ringtones1", "Ringtones2", etc..so they're all one right after the other in the alphabetical app list. I could change all of my news apps so they have the word "news" in front of them, again putting them all together in the alphabetical app list. Just something to think about.

    Storage: I get that MS wants us to use Skydrive for storage, but people in **** want ice water. If I'm going to store my music on Skydrive, I need 2 things....1. More than 25GB (I'll gladly pay for it)......2. The ability to access the music in Skydrive through Zune, rather than through the browser, and have all the Zune functionality (Playlists, Random Play, etc).

    Custom Tile colors: I want these. I'm sorry, but I hate the whole "themes" idea. I don't want all the tiles on my start screen to be the same color. It's boring. It really bugs me when developers make an app, and make it fit with my "theme". I love the apps that have their own look. They stand out. I want that for every app. Developers, get creative with your tile "icons". Give the option to have it match a user's theme, but also give the option to have it not match.

    Other than these three things, I'm pretty damn happy with my Focus, and will probably be getting the Focus S. Sorry Nokia, but I'm a "plain black slab" kinda guy. : )
    11-04-2011 11:59 PM
  8. jfa1's Avatar
    Just read where Apollo may come as early as July and windows phone8 and windows 8 will have a simultaneous launch.
    Big Supes likes this.
    11-05-2011 12:07 AM
  9. Matthew Mazzenga's Avatar
    Just read where Apollo may come as early as July and windows phone8 and windows 8 will have a simultaneous launch.
    That would be awesome. Where did you read that?
    11-05-2011 12:35 AM
  10. Big Supes's Avatar
    To touch on the folder argument... I use the voice recognition for contacts (un-grouped and not in recent call list) and apps that are not pinned. Just another "option".
    11-05-2011 04:48 AM
  11. Big Supes's Avatar
    Just read where Apollo may come as early as July and windows phone8 and windows 8 will have a simultaneous launch.
    Linky, please! :)
    11-05-2011 04:49 AM
  12. palandri's Avatar
    Just read where Apollo may come as early as July and windows phone8 and windows 8 will have a simultaneous launch.
    There's a lot of speculation on that. I am not sure anyone knows for sure.
    11-05-2011 06:12 AM
  13. desmonium's Avatar
    There's a lot of speculation on that. I am not sure anyone knows for sure.
    Naw... They said Win8 is at least one year away. Tango is probably gonna be out around July 2012, but definitely not Apollo.
    11-05-2011 09:51 AM
  14. mcwop's Avatar
    LOL, I don't even have Mango yet on my Samsung Focus 1.4. So if that does not come soon, what will come after is a more advanced, gazillion app iPhone 4S. MSFT does not have a clue. Maybe Ballmer can tell us how useless Siri is, and QR readers and all the other stuff the iPhone has and Winblows phone does not. What a mistake buying a Windows phone was for me.

    Nice UI paradigm, but we can see MSFT is just not agile enough.
    11-06-2011 07:16 PM
  15. KingCrimson's Avatar
    LOL, I don't even have Mango yet on my Samsung Focus 1.4. So if that does not come soon, what will come after is a more advanced, gazillion app iPhone 4S. MSFT does not have a clue. Maybe Ballmer can tell us how useless Siri is, and QR readers and all the other stuff the iPhone has and Winblows phone does not. What a mistake buying a Windows phone was for me.

    Nice UI paradigm, but we can see MSFT is just not agile enough.
    Microsoft devs are working on Tango/Apollo was we speak. They are super agile. It's the OEMs who are dragging their feet.
    11-06-2011 07:38 PM
  16. mcwop's Avatar
    Microsoft devs are working on Tango/Apollo was we speak. They are super agile. It's the OEMs who are dragging their feet.
    MSFT has dropped the ball by allowing OEMs far too much leeway. Regardless, MSFT KNew about the focus 1.4 hardware difference since NODO. They ignored it IMO, and did not require the OEMs to comply. Do not coddle OEMs that hold your platform back. appple has several different hardware configs, and they can figure it out pretty well.

    So Tango is irrelevant when I still do not even have Mango. So I will blog, and social network the fact the WP7 remains far behind he competition. If MSFT wants me to stop, deliver the update, or pressure your OEMs to do so. Am I the only one that recognizes the WP7 I'd seriously lagging?

    So regardless of OEMS, MSFTs name is one my phone's OS.
    11-06-2011 08:31 PM
  17. Curtieson's Avatar
    .. Am I the only one that recognizes the WP7 I'd seriously lagging?.
    Pretty sure I heard 1.4 Focus made up less than 1% of the WP7 system...so, yes...you may just be the only one to realize those issues.
    11-14-2011 08:43 AM
  18. trakkar's Avatar
    1. separate volume for music/phone ringer
    2. equalizer in zune
    3. custom tile colors or even size.
    4. ability to have a custom app order
    5. custom SMS alert tones
    6. those API's for timer apps for ringer/vibrate/ wireless on etc

    just come off 2 years of IOS and really like mango, the above would just make it near perfect.
    cheers
    jeremyshaw and jdd77 like this.
    11-14-2011 09:59 PM
  19. power5's Avatar
    MSFT has dropped the ball by allowing OEMs far too much leeway. Regardless, MSFT KNew about the focus 1.4 hardware difference since NODO. They ignored it IMO, and did not require the OEMs to comply. Do not coddle OEMs that hold your platform back. appple has several different hardware configs, and they can figure it out pretty well.

    So Tango is irrelevant when I still do not even have Mango. So I will blog, and social network the fact the WP7 remains far behind he competition. If MSFT wants me to stop, deliver the update, or pressure your OEMs to do so. Am I the only one that recognizes the WP7 I'd seriously lagging?

    So regardless of OEMS, MSFTs name is one my phone's OS.
    MS makes the OS, samsung makes the hardware. Funny that you ONLY blame MS though. Isn't Samsung's name on your PHONE? Have you contacted samsung and asked for a replacement with a handset that has mango? Its called an RMA request. Email them about it. You are just complaining and expecting something to happen.
    11-15-2011 08:13 AM
  20. power5's Avatar
    LOL, I don't even have Mango yet on my Samsung Focus 1.4. So if that does not come soon, what will come after is a more advanced, gazillion app iPhone 4S. MSFT does not have a clue. Maybe Ballmer can tell us how useless Siri is, and QR readers and all the other stuff the iPhone has and Winblows phone does not. What a mistake buying a Windows phone was for me.

    Nice UI paradigm, but we can see MSFT is just not agile enough.
    Dont blame the OS if you do not know what it can do.

    Scan QR Codes | Scan Microsoft Tag | Scan Text | Mobile Search | Windows Phone 7

    One of the reasons the OS does not have 400,000 apps is because the OS can do so much out of the box without the need for apps.

    Have you tried translating text on an iphone by taking a picture? How about copying scanned text and pasting it into an SMS or email?

    Not sure if these are Mango features or not though. Again, email samsung and ask for an RMA if you have not already.
    11-15-2011 08:19 AM
  21. canesfan625's Avatar
    Dont blame the OS if you do not know what it can do.

    Scan QR Codes | Scan Microsoft Tag | Scan Text | Mobile Search | Windows Phone 7

    One of the reasons the OS does not have 400,000 apps is because the OS can do so much out of the box without the need for apps.

    Have you tried translating text on an iphone by taking a picture? How about copying scanned text and pasting it into an SMS or email?

    Not sure if these are Mango features or not though. Again, email samsung and ask for an RMA if you have not already.
    Siri? Yeah Apple really broke new ground adding voice commands.. oh wait, no they didn't.
    What are all these "other things"? Hear that a lot but no one really seems to be able to really mention anything specifically.
    11-15-2011 09:09 AM
  22. botiordog's Avatar
    ise there some augmented reality aplication for this phone? Nokia Lumia 800
    11-15-2011 10:58 AM
  23. jfa1's Avatar
    Linky, please! :)
    Sorry for tge delay was out of town and no access to web except through the focus and did not get on the site. I will try to find the url I think it was an article from a carrier or Qualcomm that mentioned the time line for Tango and Apollo!

    EDIT Well over on WMPoweruser a few mins ago there was an article from Nokia saying they will have windows 8 tablets in June 2012 and also a higher end phone in the first 1/2 of 2012. We also have as rumor or fact not sure that windoows 8 andd Windows Phone 8 will be released at the same time. This would put Apollo (WP8) in June od 2012.
    Last edited by jfa1; 11-15-2011 at 03:37 PM.
    11-15-2011 11:02 AM
  24. jdd77's Avatar
    1. separate volume for music/phone ringer
    2. equalizer in zune
    3. custom tile colors or even size.
    4. ability to have a custom app order
    5. custom SMS alert tones
    6. those API's for timer apps for ringer/vibrate/ wireless on etc

    just come off 2 years of IOS and really like mango, the above would just make it near perfect.
    cheers
    I agree with this list and Id like to add:
    1. Seperate volume controls for the keyboard as well. ..and maybe a heptic feedback option. I like to have some feedback when Im typing, like the clicking of a hardware keyboard or simply heptic feedback. The current popping noise is perfect at volume 8. (but the whole phone has to be at volume 8, which I dont like)
    2. Seperate vibrate functions for text msgs, ringer, and when in silent mode.

    I have no problems with the media department in wp7. Its easy to use, excellent integration etc.. But to me, media is a plus and Id be fine with how it handles on any OS.
    Whats first to me is good phone functions in settings/options. Wp7 is secondary in this department. If there were an update that focuses primarily on these things, Id never wanna use anything else..
    11-15-2011 12:02 PM
  25. Pavel's Avatar
    I want a file manager screen when I plug my phone into my comp. I came from webos, when I plugged my Pre in I had the option to treat my phone as a USB drive. Could EASILY organize my photos, add ebooks, delete/add Music. You know, control my device. With the Win7/Zune/cloud storage my photos are scattered and multi-copied, or just plain missing. (though Zune says they are there) I still dont know what is where. (who designed the Zune interface, a MAC lover?)
    I have to move my books to the web just to download them to my phone?!?! I want to manage my files directly, not through a server across the planet. I dont want every photo or song on my computers on my phone! (Zune is crippling to deal with when you are trying to sync 200 of 3000+ songs or 20 photos in 5 albums out of a collection of 2000+ in 100 albums.) I could not care less about moving photos to Facebook or any social site. I just want my phone to serve as the photos in my wallet. I want a file manager.
    12-02-2011 04:31 PM
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