After Mango... what's next?

[jdd77]

Are you serious or just trolling me?

Yea...I bought into it...stupid me. :blush:

?

 

[aubreyq]

jdd77, I have to say that although I see your point on some of the stuff you'd like to see, folders have NO place in Windows Phone because it's the exact opposite of what Windows Phone is aiming for. Folders are an iOS/Android thing. If I want Netflix, I go to the N, if I want What's App, I go to the W, etc. It doesn't take long. If I want to get to it quicker, I pin it to Start. Clicking on a genre folder and THEN look for the app? No way I want to go back to that.

I used to be big on organizing my software applications into groups (on my PC), but later found out it slowed me down (e.g. "where did I put application X? Under utilities or productivity?")

 

[jdd77]

jdd77, I have to say that although I see your point on some of the stuff you'd like to see, folders have NO place in Windows Phone because it's the exact opposite of what Windows Phone is aiming for. Folders are an iOS/Android thing. If I want Netflix, I go to the N, if I want What's App, I go to the W, etc. It doesn't take long. If I want to get to it quicker, I pin it to Start. Clicking on a genre folder and THEN look for the app? No way I want to go back to that.

I used to be big on organizing my software applications into groups (on my PC), but later found out it slowed me down (e.g. "where did I put application X? Under utilities or productivity?")

I agree with you. I'm not saying either way is better or worse. I think an option would be the best way. But if there was an option to choose between lists or folders, then what would we have to complain about?

 

[aubreyq]

I agree with you. I'm not saying either way is better or worse. I think an option would be the best way. But if there was an option to choose between lists or folders, then what would we have to complain about?

Well there's a branding issue at stake here. The idea is to maintain uniformity and sell a new approach. If people start creating folders, the word of mouth advertising might be affected, as people will see folders and see no differentiation from what they already have. You also have a support issue, because one way or the other, folder problems and questions will start popping up on forums and maybe even calls. I know it sounds like I'm reaching here, but it would be an issue for sure.

 

[Coffee]

We really don't need folders, we need the hubs to be more accessible to 3rd parties.

The hub for media (currently Music and Videos) should allow you to add the media apps you want to the hub, not just the one that are classified as such and automatically get added.

Flickr is in my Pictures hub but there are other image viewers that are not - I want to add them (AND take them out of my alphabetical listing, just as games are not in my apps list). Yes, the devs can enable being in the Hub, but I can't as a user.

Further, I'd like the Win8 'contracts' idea to be extended to Windows Phone, so independent apps can exchange data without any previous knowledge of each other. But who knows, that might be coming.

 

[power5]

some sort of mass storage, i know, i know probly wont see it due to required software and firmware changes. but at least somthing that if were at the library or a friends house or even on a random computer, see a song or file you want just plug it in and get it. basically create another way to get things besides having to have zune on every computer you run into.

please add option for list or app icon grid views, this can probly be done with very little software changes and still be able to keep the crisp modern look of WP7,just depends on if they feel up to it or not,sure its probly came up in one of their meetings or discussions.

and finally some sort of file management system built in or app even i dont care just something to show and edit/install/remove everything from docs to videos and apps all in one place without having to go to 8 different apps in your phone just to see what you have on it without a computer plugged up( i mean a handheld way).

MS wants you to use skydrive for mass storage transportation. But I have the same desire to be able to plug in my "thumb drive" phone to a computer and grab what I want. If I am at a library I may not be allowed access to personal storage sites like skydrive. However I may also not be allowed access to file transfers to USB drives.

A grid of icons is an android and ios and just about every other mobile OS setup. There are plenty to choose from if that is the way you would like to view your apps. I have an iphone and I usually click 2 folders to get to the lesser used apps on my phone. The ones I use every day are on my home screen in a folder I know. If I go to my second page of foldered apps I have no idea where I put the converter tool. Is it in utilities or tools folder? Let me click and find out. I could always go to the search and find it on the first try though. If I cared about the 2 seconds I would save, I might do that. Alphabetical is much easier to find a lesser used app than folders. At least for me.

Not sure why you would need to delete mass amounts of documents, video, and apps at the same time, but I would not hold your breath on that ability coming to windows phone.

We really don't need folders, we need the hubs to be more accessible to 3rd parties.
Flickr is in my Pictures hub but there are other image viewers that are not - I want to add them (AND take them out of my alphabetical listing, just as games are not in my apps list). Yes, the devs can enable being in the Hub, but I can't as a user.

100% agree with this. I would like to be able to add video streaming apps to the media hub. But then again, its faster to just click the start screen tile I guess.

 

[xcodezerox]

Bluetooth can connect to any Bluetooth enable mobile rather than only a music device.

 

[jdd77]

Well there's a branding issue at stake here. The idea is to maintain uniformity and sell a new approach. If people start creating folders, the word of mouth advertising might be affected, as people will see folders and see no differentiation from what they already have. You also have a support issue, because one way or the other, folder problems and questions will start popping up on forums and maybe even calls. I know it sounds like I'm reaching here, but it would be an issue for sure.

It doesn't really feel like a new approach, more like a primitive one. And I think exacactly the opposite would happen advertising-wise. Instead of branding, it would be a selling point. Android and iPhone does it one way and wp7 would be the OS that gives you an option..

 

[Big Supes]

A couple of things I'd like to see next...

32GB+ of storage.
Voice recognition integrated throughout the OS.
Something from Microsoft - "Tell Me" to aid voice recognition.
960x640/higher screen resolution.
More exclusives released via Xbox Live.
Zune sync across PC/MAC/360 (movies and music) enabling sharing to WP.

 

[power5]

But you already have options. Either pin the tiles to your start screen in a 2x? grid or keep them in the app list organized in folders of first letter.

 

[cckgz4]

The alphabetical search is a good substitution for folders (for me)

 

[jdd77]

But you already have options. Either pin the tiles to your start screen in a 2x? grid or keep them in the app list organized in folders of first letter.

I do have them pinned to my start screen but it's more because I can't organize them in folders. And you kind of HAVE TO pin things to the start screen because if you didn't, the start screen disappears. I don't understand why wp7 cant at least have the option of folders..just because apple or android has them? Judging by that rationale, wp7 shouldn't be able to make phone calls either, because the other OS's can do that..

 

[electricbopeep]

Definitely agree with:
Higher resolutions (800x480 has become fodder for jokes at this point)
32 GB storage (64 GB would be nice, but I won't push it)
Enhanced voice recognition integration
Enhanced xbox integration (based on the last wpcentral podcast, I think I'll like the xbox remote app because it serves as a media companion and I primarily use my xbox for consuming media)
Native timer and stopwatch
LTE
Native Photo & Video Editing

If you want folders and hidden apps, get an iPhone...they didn't want to copy that format, so they aren't going to do it now. I think the apps structure is perfect...Games are always in the Games up...Apps in the App hub...if I want Music apps I go to Music then Apps...if I want Photo Apps I go to Pictures then Apps...if I want a misc I go to Apps...or I just say "Open XYZ" and it opens.

I would appreciate if you refrained from using the "if you want...get an <<insert non-Windows Phone device>>" retort with me. I've been following Windows Phone since it was a twinkle in MS's eye; I understand the deliberate choices that the Windows Phone team has made to differentiate WP7 from other platforms. Despite the current app organization being just peachy for you, it is far from perfect. (as an aside, here's some food for thought, because I often see the "it works fine for me, so what's your problem" sentiment here: just as reasonable people can disagree reasonably, reasonable people can differ in use cases reasonably. That is to say that just because it is perfect for you does not mean that it can't be improved; additionally the validity of my concern doesn't hinge on your use case being invalid, and vice-versa)

Replace my use of the word "folders" with the term "organizational tool" and you'll see what I'm getting at - it's not about WP7 slavishly copying iOS and Adroid as a matter of appeasement; it's about offering the functionality that folders provide, while staying true to the WP7 ethos - which is why I specifically mentioned HUBS. Microsoft originally announce more hubs than what we currently have - http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-7-series-answers-and-questions . Having user-customized hubs would provide an extra level of organization, while still mainintining the UI consistency of WP7. Or, as others menioned, they could open up the hubs more to developers.

Aubreyq mentioned the brand strength issue upthread in reference to MS's perspective on folders; the thing is, there's a possible issue of brand identity from another perspective too. In a Windows Weekly podcast a while back, Paul Thurrott asserted that hubs haven;t lived up to MS original's promise because developers/content-producers don't want their apps to subsumed by hubs, where they exist alongside other apps as means to the hub's end and their brand is diluted in favor of coalescing around a function. They rather be stand-alone apps.

By the way, I've been using this category hack http://www.windowscentral.com/organise-your-start-screen-live-tiles for the last 6 months or so and it's helped a good deal with organizing the apps on my start screen but I think there's so much more potential for improvement. I was looking for an app this morning that I don't use frequently - I didn't remember the name (it wasn't something obvious or memorable) so the search and jumplist functions were of no use to me. I started scrolling through my apps but it was too time-consuming. Having enhanced hubs or a "folder-like organizational tool" would have improved my user experience in that case. Yea, there is always another way...MS for now has decided that you swipe UP (unlock) then look at your live tiles.
That sounds sort of trite and dismissive. BTW, when I say swipe "left" I'm referring to notifications being to the left of the homescreen, not the lock screen. Live tiles provide a different type of information management than notifications that are persistent and dismissable.
Lock and Live Tile work great for me since it is mostly just "What do I have tonight and what time?". What else would you want while still allowing it to be glance and go??? The week view is all preference and I agree the option should be there.

Perhaps showing more than 1 appointment at a time on the lock screen - like maybe the next 3 appointments? And scrolling through the next 3 appt's on the live tile similar to how photos scroll vertically on the Photos tile?
I have a big issue with the voice lady being way too quiet when she reads I texts...I REALLY wish I could make changes to this (I found it in the Diagnosis menu but it is all random numbers I am scared to change)
Agreed!
Thumbs up. I want the ringer to turn off automatically when I am at work.
Ditto. I feel like this isn't something I should have worry about! Also, I remember WM having a "vibrate/silent mode during busy times in calendar" option, so if you had a meeting, the phone would automatically change the sound profile. It might be nice to bring that back.


Wouldn't ever work...when my phone pulls in emails it is typically 2-3 at a time...it would get very cluttered and confusing.
You're sort of right and I've taken that into consideration. Perhaps there could be an option when creating/editing contacts and groups that allowed for toast notifications for emails from those particular people/groups. (Maybe folder-based but that could be problematic. Maybe the mail live tile could have 2 sides and show the details of the latest message on the flip side). This way, it only happens for messages from select people (could still be problematic depending on individuals' patterns of email usage). I think there's a way to add this functionality while not compromising simplicity. That's the challenge of good design.

I have never ever once had the need for a forward button on my phone, it would be 100% a waste of space...there is a proper back button...and yes, Find on Page would be nice.
You are correct about forward. I remembered that you can just go to history, and although it is an extra step, "forward" is needed so infrequently that it's not an issue. I'm upset that they took away "find on page" - that was very useful and it's one of those things that, even if used infrequently, is very helpful in those cases when you do need it (this is what I mean when I refer to their wrong-headed adherence to the 80/20 rule). I also remembered another feature that I'd like - save page for offline viewing.

my Thoughts/Opinions/Answers in Bold.

I have to agree with electricbopeep about folders. The app structure isn't bad, but it's far from perfect. I have no idea how the iPhone is set up, I've never used one...but scrolling through the list of alphabetical apps you have on wp7, I often wish there was some kind of way to organize everything. And yes the games are automatically stored in the Xbox "folder", so wp7 is 10% there in this area. As you said though, the list works perfect for you...So I think, to make everyone happy, there should be an OPTION in settings that allows you to CHOOSE whether to have "alphabetical list view" or "folder view".

Yes, the power of OPTIONS is often overlooked. I understand that MS feels that too many options could complicate things but I think there's a way to implement better app organizations that's still very accesible and true to WP7's simplicity.

Folder and Notifications not a problem anymore IMO like what others replied with in this thread this is what I do

1st screen = all live tiles with notification support right away i get all my notifications
2nd screen = all static apps with no live tiles if I need to find anything click on search and bam its there still just as quick as folders.

Maybe MS should focus on the second screen arrange applications by genre

I have my apps arranged in a similar way. Search doesn't always give the "bam" effect, especially when you think apps in terms of what they do and not what their name is (and sometimes the two aren't obviously related).

I guess Finance is the only other one that comes to mind...(Multiple banks) But even still...if I want PNC I click the "P" and if I want Chase I click the "C"...how bass akwords would it be to have to click an "F" to go to finance to open it up to go to Chase? If there wasn't the quick skip, search AND Voice-to-App feature there might be a case for it...

Business was one of the hubs that was originally announced. Based on how I have my start screen, here are some hubs that I would want that I think would appeal to a great number of consumers: Local, Shopping, Food, Utilities, Navigation, Messaging, Books/Reference. Fitness/Health - these probably line up with the current Marketplace app categories, come to think of it.

jdd77, I have to say that although I see your point on some of the stuff you'd like to see, folders have NO place in Windows Phone because it's the exact opposite of what Windows Phone is aiming for. Folders are an iOS/Android thing. If I want Netflix, I go to the N, if I want What's App, I go to the W, etc. It doesn't take long. If I want to get to it quicker, I pin it to Start. Clicking on a genre folder and THEN look for the app? No way I want to go back to that.

I used to be big on organizing my software applications into groups (on my PC), but later found out it slowed me down (e.g. "where did I put application X? Under utilities or productivity?")

I get what you're saying. It doesn't have be folders per se, as currently implemented in iOS and Android, just offer organizational functionality that search and jumplists can't offer. For some of us, organizing into categories doesn't slow us down. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree with you. I'm not saying either way is better or worse. I think an option would be the best way. But if there was an option to choose between lists or folders, then what would we have to complain about?

I think it goes beyond folders. I think the Windows Phone team probabaly feels that MS/WinMo lost its way by giving too many options and not taking a stand; that options are the enemy of the ideal. Hopefully they'll realize that form and function can coexist, afterall that's their pitch for WP7.

We really don't need folders, we need the hubs to be more accessible to 3rd parties.

The hub for media (currently Music and Videos) should allow you to add the media apps you want to the hub, not just the one that are classified as such and automatically get added.

Flickr is in my Pictures hub but there are other image viewers that are not - I want to add them (AND take them out of my alphabetical listing, just as games are not in my apps list). Yes, the devs can enable being in the Hub, but I can't as a user.

Further, I'd like the Win8 'contracts' idea to be extended to Windows Phone, so independent apps can exchange data without any previous knowledge of each other. But who knows, that might be coming.

Good points.

MS wants you to use skydrive for mass storage transportation. But I have the same desire to be able to plug in my "thumb drive" phone to a computer and grab what I want. If I am at a library I may not be allowed access to personal storage sites like skydrive. However I may also not be allowed access to file transfers to USB drives.

A grid of icons is an android and ios and just about every other mobile OS setup. There are plenty to choose from if that is the way you would like to view your apps. I have an iphone and I usually click 2 folders to get to the lesser used apps on my phone. The ones I use every day are on my home screen in a folder I know. If I go to my second page of foldered apps I have no idea where I put the converter tool. Is it in utilities or tools folder? Let me click and find out. I could always go to the search and find it on the first try though. If I cared about the 2 seconds I would save, I might do that. Alphabetical is much easier to find a lesser used app than folders. At least for me.

Not sure why you would need to delete mass amounts of documents, video, and apps at the same time, but I would not hold your breath on that ability coming to windows phone.



100% agree with this. I would like to be able to add video streaming apps to the media hub. But then again, its faster to just click the start screen tile I guess.

I use Windows Live Mesh and I find the Skydrive synced storage setup to be a stumbling block as far as WP7 is concerned. I thought I would be able to keep certain folders synced between my phone and PCs,a la OneNote notebooks. That's not how SkyDrive works in the current WP7 implementation.

 

[electricbopeep]

duplicate post

 

[cckgz4]

So maybe instead of folders, users can make their own hubs?

 

[electricbopeep]

I do have them pinned to my start screen but it's more because I can't organize them in folders. And you kind of HAVE TO pin things to the start screen because if you didn't, the start screen disappears. I don't understand why wp7 cant at least have the option of folders..just because apple or android has them? Judging by that rationale, wp7 shouldn't be able to make phone calls either, because the other OS's can do that..

this tickled me!

but really, i can appreciate both sides of the argument. I'm actually an aspiring amateur developer (prior to wp7, I only ever installed cooked roms for winmo; always the diner and never the chef), so it's interesting to hear differing views on usability.

 

[Matthew Mazzenga]

A few things I'd like to mention:

Organization: If we're not going to do folders, how about at least the ability to rename apps? Much like the way you can rename a shortcut in Windows on the desktop. As electricbopeep mentioned, I also experience some "forgetfulness" when it comes to the names of apps, as opposed to their functionality. Example: If I want to check out some of the ringtone apps I have, I may have "Ringtones", "1000 Ringtones", "Free Ringtones", etc (just examples). They're all over the place in the app list. What if I could rename those apps to just "Ringtones1", "Ringtones2", etc..so they're all one right after the other in the alphabetical app list. I could change all of my news apps so they have the word "news" in front of them, again putting them all together in the alphabetical app list. Just something to think about.

Storage: I get that MS wants us to use Skydrive for storage, but people in **** want ice water. If I'm going to store my music on Skydrive, I need 2 things....1. More than 25GB (I'll gladly pay for it)......2. The ability to access the music in Skydrive through Zune, rather than through the browser, and have all the Zune functionality (Playlists, Random Play, etc).

Custom Tile colors: I want these. I'm sorry, but I hate the whole "themes" idea. I don't want all the tiles on my start screen to be the same color. It's boring. It really bugs me when developers make an app, and make it fit with my "theme". I love the apps that have their own look. They stand out. I want that for every app. Developers, get creative with your tile "icons". Give the option to have it match a user's theme, but also give the option to have it not match.

Other than these three things, I'm pretty damn happy with my Focus, and will probably be getting the Focus S. Sorry Nokia, but I'm a "plain black slab" kinda guy. : )

 

[jfa1]

Just read where Apollo may come as early as July and windows phone8 and windows 8 will have a simultaneous launch.

 

[Matthew Mazzenga]

Just read where Apollo may come as early as July and windows phone8 and windows 8 will have a simultaneous launch.

That would be awesome. Where did you read that?

 

[Big Supes]

To touch on the folder argument... I use the voice recognition for contacts (un-grouped and not in recent call list) and apps that are not pinned. Just another "option".