08-13-2011 11:44 AM
45 12
tools
  1. cookiemonster21x's Avatar
    I love that you don't like the drawer, but you want it on the main screen for utilities? Just throw the Settings tile on the main screen. As a developer, I'm surprised you don't already have it there. My preferred implementation would be pressable display buttons in the notification bar at the top - one for BT, one for Wireless, just press for on/off.
    yeah, that's actually what i meant (by drawer i was referring to the drop-down when you adjust the volume that contains the ring/vibrate toggle).


    Long press of Search to bing up Bing Music? that's very specific to you.
    i really don't think so... Bing Music seems to be the best use for that command. we already have ability to voice search through a long-press of the home button, it seems a waste not to have something there; and I feel the ability to instantly search for music (maybe even through lockscreen) would appeal to a large variety of end-users..


    There are a lot of issues here that are very personalized and while I get that, you know that all of those issues have to be measured against the average user. Options are also important, but if you give a user 10,000 options, they get confused.
    agreed. as i said these are just my personal opinions. i just feel part of the beauty of the OS is the simplicity (less clutter: drawers, icons, etc... being a big part of that) and i just hope that doesn't get lost as the platform grows to meet a broader audience and adds features. also, i really do agree about options, too many (android) is most definitely not optimal, but i think WP has a bit of room to go in providing some flexibility to that broader user-base they're trying to reach.
    08-08-2011 10:27 AM
  2. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    The "must be able to kill apps" isn't a meme, it's the darn truth.

    Also, shame on MS for not adding Yahoo, AIM, Gtalk, and Skype to the messaging hub chat. Hope they don't play to offer support for MS related services.
    Yahoo and Live messenger are compatible networks now. You can add a YIM contact to Live Messenger. AIM and Gtalk are major competitors, I'm not surprised they aren't there.

    From what I've read, Skype is on the way.
    1jaxstate1 likes this.
    08-08-2011 10:28 AM
  3. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    What about Google Voice? Many of my friends are on the same provider as me, as we use our main cell phone numbers to call in order to take advantage of mobile-to-mobile calling, but we SMS using Google Voice. I have to store their GV numbers as pager numbers because Windows Phone doesn't support custom number types, and despite listing their GV numbers in Gmail as Google Voice, those are not synced to the phone at all and I have to carry their GV numbers in a second entry called Pager in order for the phone to sync and recognize it.
    Your case is much more compelling. In all honesty, I think if they're going to sync gmail contacts, then they need to bring in google voice numbers specifically. Multiple mobile numbers... meh.
    Last edited by TheDvlsAdvc8; 08-08-2011 at 10:54 AM.
    08-08-2011 10:33 AM
  4. xpxp2002's Avatar
    Your case is much more compelling. In all honesty, I think if they're going to sync gmail contacts, then they need to bring in google voice numbers specifically. Multiple mobile numbers... meh.
    The only problem with it is that Microsoft will never create a "Google Voice" number type because it's Google. I understand and accept that. The only realistic solution I think they could offer would be custom number types. Then the phone could just attempt to sync those with the Exchange provider. That way if Google has their own number types, they just blindly sync. If Microsoft wants to create a "Skype" number type for storing a contact's Skype-In number separately, then they can just as equally sync that as well.
    08-08-2011 10:36 AM
  5. petrozio's Avatar
    A few inconsistancys I don't like.
    1. Animation is inconsistant when entering people hub & messaging.
    2. The quick jump letters are inconsistantly themed in the apps list compared to the rest of the os

    Navigation
    1. Get rid of the tap. Make it automatic like every other navigation system on the planet. It's more than a pain, it's a safety issue.

    2. Voice prompts don't play well to bluetooth stereo. It cuts off all but the last few words.

    Music over bluetooth
    I've notices it cutting out more with mango.

    IE9
    Favoites need to be on the toolbar, not in the drawer. Here's a thought, move the URL box to the side revealing other options. when you need it, slide it over.
    08-08-2011 10:39 AM
  6. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    For those complaining about paying for apps, I can't help but think you are an example of the horrible entitlement-minded society we've built. Until we finally sell America out as another European socialist regime, we live in a capitalist society. People creating products or services SHOULD be able to get revenue from it. It costs them $100 just to become a registered developer, so charging a little bit to recoup that isn't a horrible thing. If an app I want is worth it to me, I'll pay for it. If I'm not willing to pay for it, then I do with out it.
    I'm with you on everything in this post until you got on the lame political soap box. Go spout that crap on the WSJ editorial page comments.

    As a developer, its up to me to figure out how to monetize my app. If you have a pay app and I have a free ad-supported app of equal quality, I'm probably going to undercut you. If its not worth my time, I won't be developing. Wanting something as cheap as possible (what's cheaper than free?) doesn't make you a socialist or child of entitlements, it makes you a consumer driving competition in the market.

    You can't hear the market speaking over your anti-socialist whine.
    Last edited by TheDvlsAdvc8; 08-08-2011 at 10:47 AM.
    08-08-2011 10:41 AM
  7. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    The only problem with it is that Microsoft will never create a "Google Voice" number type because it's Google. I understand and accept that. The only realistic solution I think they could offer would be custom number types. Then the phone could just attempt to sync those with the Exchange provider. That way if Google has their own number types, they just blindly sync. If Microsoft wants to create a "Skype" number type for storing a contact's Skype-In number separately, then they can just as equally sync that as well.
    I don't see any reason they wouldn't, they are bringing in gmail accounts afterall - so the "its google" argument isn't quite on target, but I agree custom types are the most flexible.
    08-08-2011 10:43 AM
  8. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Whoa, didn't know I could do that. If that's the case, I'll just bid adieu to the two remaining people on AIM and just use IM+ for gchat!
    Your case is much more compelling. In all honesty, I think if they're going to sync gmail contacts, then they need to bring in google voice numbers specifically. Multiple mobile numbers... meh.
    08-08-2011 10:47 AM
  9. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    My only gripe is the lack of volume controls. Separate media/ringer volume would be much appreciated.
    THIS. Gotta have better volume controls. I put my headphones in and if I don't set the volume all the way down to like less than 4, I'm going to go deaf. Then I have to run it back up to 15-20 again afterward if I want to hear my phone ring.
    08-08-2011 10:50 AM
  10. cookiemonster21x's Avatar
    first off, just wanted to point out i noted at the top of this post these are just my personal opinions, so yes a lot of it is subjective and personal, but with that said...

    I hear this a lot, and I suppose there is no harm in adding it, but I honestly don't get why its necessary to have multiple mobile numbers. Are people really walking around with 2 cell phones in their pocket? No. Therefore one of these numbers is not really mobile now is it? I know several people who have a personal cell and a work-provided cell. Only one of these is carried at all times - the personal cell. The work-cell is a work number.
    the issue i have with this is not so much the naming, but the ability to text a mobile number.. if i classify someone's work cell as 'work 2' (rather than a 'mobile 2') i do not get the option to quickly text that number on their contact card.


    This makes no sense to me. Are you shuffling or are you picking and choosing tracks? The list order changes in order to show you the order in which tracks are coming up. It makes perfect sense.
    really disagree here. if i'm shuffling i do not care which tracks are coming up next. it makes much more sense (as in every other instance including WMP, iTunes and the Zune software itself) to have the shuffle just jump around the list one is listening to.

    i often like to play an album on shuffle, but at times want to go play a specific track within. it is much more intuitive to have the tracks displayed in the same order they are on the actual album.. it may not seem that big of a deal for albums of about 10-15 songs, but when playing an artist (tracks listed alphabetically) or playlists (tracks listed custom ordered) with 20, 30, 50+ songs it makes going back to a specific song incredibly tedious.

    also (as mentioned), it just goes against convention and serves essentially no benefit.. i have heard this complaint from quite a few people already and i feel it is likely to just annoy and confuse end-users (especially those who rely on well crafted playlists).


    Absolutely not. A lot of my music (electronic/dance/dubstep) are different versions/remixes of the same song with the same name. Some have (remix - dj) appended to them, some do not... so I appreciate knowing the album. The same is true of live and acoustic versions. For example, Metallica's "Nothing else matters" from the black album is entirely different from "Nothing else matters" on S&M. I have a million examples of this. Its necessary and not at all confusing. Not having it would be confusing.
    that's true, i see your point. i tend to have my music very well tagged and organized so to me i view it as duplicate/unnecessary info, but you're right here.


    What do you have against the drawers? They look fine and are pretty subtle. Having the play button on the page was extremely confusing. Most people thought it was just a visual cue to go to music, not an actual button that performs a task. Moving it made it more obvious and less ambiguous imo.
    i really don't know why, but for some reason they just really bugged me. they provide so little added functionality (usually just whatever was on the main panorama page + settings, and minimized on all other pages).

    though not much, they do take up space (precious space on my lil trophy screen), and i feel they break-up the seamless feel of the panorama in each hub.


    Agree about the remote video history. Though it has come in handy before when I wanted to show someone a youtube vid I watched recently. I think they need to break music and video history apart.
    agree, that would be an ideal solution.


    On my focus, this "choose your contact" display, shown alone, lasts a fraction of a second before the Contact Tiles load seemingly with a set of random contacts (but more than 4). Once the contact tiles have loaded (again, fraction of a second), the "choose your contact" button is at the bottom of the list. I think this should go in a drawer. ;)
    yeah, i have yet to hear anyone with this problem. do not know why it is not working for me?? (..but i'd have to say no on the drawer idea, haha)
    08-08-2011 11:00 AM
  11. cookiemonster21x's Avatar
    The quick jump letters are inconsistantly themed in the apps list compared to the rest of the os.
    yeah, and that's in-part why i don't like them. however, im pretty sure this is done as app icons shown in the jumplist are typically solid and many match the accent colour of the phone, so making the jumplist the same style/colour would provide too little contrast between the apps and the letters..

    Navigation
    1. Get rid of the tap. Make it automatic like every other navigation system on the planet. It's more than a pain, it's a safety issue.

    2. Voice prompts don't play well to bluetooth stereo. It cuts off all but the last few words.
    agree!!
    08-08-2011 11:06 AM
  12. geoken's Avatar
    I'm amazed at the hills some of you choose to die on. Some of things seem so very trivial in the context of the WP7 experience. Also, it's clear that many of you have NOT been paying attention to the Windows Phone Blog or other very heavily used sites where some of the very features you're complaining about are the result of many MORE people complaining WEREN'T there. It just goes to prove something I told all those folks: "must-have" features are almost purely subjective, and something that is critical to one maybe completely useless to another. How on EARTH do you expect Microsoft to be all things to all people? You know what you get? CRAPPY ANDROID. I HATE ANDROID. It's ugly and it's a mess, and no amount of customization changes that. But, you see, that's a purely subjective opinion (although I think I'm right, LOL). Anyway, I can promise you that if you saw a feature change from the first beta release to the refresh, it's because they heard MORE people wanting that than not. The app switcher is a perfect example. More people than not hated the snap-to scrolling and preferred to move unimpeded across the apps. Anyway, you're just going to have to live with it or go to <puke> Android.
    First off, I think you're reading too much into the complaints. No one here is threatening to ditch WP7, we're just pointing out some minor things that annoy us.

    Next, giving the user options isn't going to transform the OS into Android. Look at iOS, it strikes a good balance between giving options and not overwhelming the user. A good example would be the iOS music app. It allows you to completely customize the toolbar on the bottom. If you want that toolbar to show buttons for album, artist, genre, store then you can have it. If I want the toolbar to show playlists, genre, podcasts, artist then that's what I get. It works just like WP7 where the toolbar presents x amount of items, then there is a 'more' button which lets you access the rest. IMO, something like these is needed even more in WP7 than it is in iOS. In iOS, the typical method for separating the sections of your app is the toolbar/tab-bar along the bottom. In WP7 it's the pivot control that typically fills this role. In iOS, unneeded icons merely add visual clutter in an area of the screen that would otherwise be unused. In WP7, unneeded entries in the pivot control increase the time it takes to get where you want to be (since you need to swipe through them) and also limit the amount of items you can quickly jump to (because their text is pushed off the screen so you can't just tap the heading).

    Also, regarding snapping in the app switcher, the problem is that they still haven't removed snapping. They just significantly reduced the friction. If they completely removed snapping then that would be fine because the app switcher would work like the home screen; you need to tap it and stop the animation before you can click a tile. But that's not how it works right now. When you tap the cards while they're moving they don't stop, they just slowly animate into their snapped position. While they're animating into their snapped position they're still unresponsive. The home screen has taught me to flick, then double tap (one tap to stop motion, the second to activate tile). If your try this in the app switcher nothing will happen. Depending how far a card is from its snapped position you can sometimes tap 3 times and still not switch to the app. The problem is that the animation and snapping is so subtle that it's easy to mistake this behavior for unresponsiveness.
    08-08-2011 01:06 PM
  13. Pete C's Avatar
    I actually don't care about the separate volume for the headphone jack and speaker. I found it to be annoying on the iPhone as many times I had the headphone output volume maxed out for car use. Then I would take out the jack and it would drop back to speaker volume and I would go about my business. However, when I plugged my headphones in to watch a video the volume would be blaring since it was last used in the car. So, if you use both the car and headphones, it really doesn't solve anything.
    08-08-2011 01:51 PM
  14. Tobyus's Avatar
    I also hate the omission of the forward and find on page options. I didn't use them that often, but I was glad they were there. I also kinda miss the favorites button, again, because I jump between sites often.
    I agree with you 100%. I will miss the Forward button, especially if the Recent option doesn't allow you to get to those pages. But, I will be angry if Find on page is completely removed from IE. There are some times when I am looking something up and the page that comes up is very long, so I want to jump to the part of the page where the word or phrase I am looking for shows up. Common pages I use this feature on are Forums and Wikipedia articles.
    08-08-2011 02:54 PM
  15. dakranii's Avatar
    Then, the removal of Forward and Find on Page from Internet Explorer just made it worse.
    Did they really remove Find on Page? Is that option gone now or just moved to another menu? I love Find on Page, that's one of my biggest complaints about the iPhone's browser is you can't search pages for keywords.

    Disappointing...
    08-08-2011 02:59 PM
  16. Rico's Avatar
    "Find on page" is completely gone. And before someone asks, no the hardware search button doesn't work for this as it's purpose is to take you to Bing now.

    I am not good with Javascript else I'd make a bookmarklet to replicate the feature. At least IE9 doesn't give me an error message when I try to create one. Of course, I'm assuming that means it'll let me make one. Also, the iPhone will let you find items via a bookmarklet. It's not ideal, but it works.
    08-08-2011 10:30 PM
  17. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    first off, just wanted to point out i noted at the top of this post these are just my personal opinions, so yes a lot of it is subjective and personal, but with that said...
    Yeah, no hostility here. We're all just throwing around opinions here.


    the issue i have with this is not so much the naming, but the ability to text a mobile number.. if i classify someone's work cell as 'work 2' (rather than a 'mobile 2') i do not get the option to quickly text that number on their contact card.
    In mango, the contact card only shows "text+chat", not a specific number to text - so there is no quick texting of specific numbers. Upon tapping text-chat, it opens the conversation window, which defaults to the mobile number. If you want to text a cell phone you've named "work 2", you hit "switch" and another screen shows up with "text mobile" (the default), and Messenger or facebook accounts. Another item there is "more phone numbers" - with that you can text any of the numbers you have for that person, including 'work 2'.

    I'm not arguing it is the best UI nav paradigm, but in terms of what you want to do, its just a different name. One could argue that they should expose multiple mobile numbers (ie text capable; maybe even google voice) directly from the contact card in order to save you some steps. I think this is a bit of an outlier though. It would kind of make the concept of combined messaging more awkward - you'd have multiple mobile numbers on the contact card to text, should you be consistent and directly show all their messaging accounts as well? Maybe. I don't know.


    really disagree here. if i'm shuffling i do not care which tracks are coming up next. it makes much more sense (as in every other instance including WMP, iTunes and the Zune software itself) to have the shuffle just jump around the list one is listening to.

    i often like to play an album on shuffle, but at times want to go play a specific track within. it is much more intuitive to have the tracks displayed in the same order they are on the actual album.. it may not seem that big of a deal for albums of about 10-15 songs, but when playing an artist (tracks listed alphabetically) or playlists (tracks listed custom ordered) with 20, 30, 50+ songs it makes going back to a specific song incredibly tedious.

    also (as mentioned), it just goes against convention and serves essentially no benefit.. i have heard this complaint from quite a few people already and i feel it is likely to just annoy and confuse end-users (especially those who rely on well crafted playlists).
    Good point, but I have to say I do like to know the upcoming tracks. Very often I'll have mine on shuffle, and hit a track I'm just not into at the moment. I'll look at the upcoming tracks and pick the upcoming track I most feel like listening to. It often spares me from hitting "next" multiple times on occasions that it shuffles a series of songs I don't care to hear right now.

    Honestly, it ought to be simple enough to show a "sort order" button on the track list - which would be ideal.
    08-09-2011 04:53 PM
  18. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    I actually don't care about the separate volume for the headphone jack and speaker. I found it to be annoying on the iPhone as many times I had the headphone output volume maxed out for car use. Then I would take out the jack and it would drop back to speaker volume and I would go about my business. However, when I plugged my headphones in to watch a video the volume would be blaring since it was last used in the car. So, if you use both the car and headphones, it really doesn't solve anything.
    True, but I'd love to be able to tap the volume indicator to change "modes" - say headphone profile or car profile and set different sound levels for each.
    08-09-2011 04:57 PM
  19. xpxp2002's Avatar
    Honestly, it ought to be simple enough to show a "sort order" button on the track list - which would be ideal.
    Just tap the list of upcoming tracks to see the sort order.
    08-09-2011 06:11 PM
  20. haikallp's Avatar
    The only thing I don't like about the drawer is that it ducks out of the way of content at times. Having two drawer heights... maybe it's forward-thinking but I just hate the inconsistency of it. I also worry about how easy it'll be to tap it on a screen smaller than 4", but then again I guess if you buy a device with that screen size you're comfortable with the on-screen elements being a certain size.
    i totatally agree on this point! its just messy and inconsistent
    08-13-2011 11:44 AM
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