Man the webOS deal has me pretty sad.

smartpatrol

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HP says they want to license webOS, but I honestly can't see that happening for a couple reasons.

1. Could HP really make a profit licensing it? They would never be able to charge more than $15/handset for it (that's the cost of WP7). webOS is a great OS but it's still not a complete ecosystem, and the core OS still needs some work performance-wise. HP would have to invest a lot of money in webOS with no guarantee of making it back. Lets be generous and say third parties could sell 10 million webOS phones next year. HP still would be NOWHERE near paying off their initial purchase of Palm, let alone the additional investment and support needed.

2. Who would want to license webOS? Android is cheaper. Both Android and WP7 offer a more complete set of services, more apps, and big names behind them.

The only possibility I could see is Samsung or HTC buying webOS completly. But even this is unlikely IMO. The most likely thing is someone will buy it just for the patents.

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augustofretes

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I will give my unbiased opinion here. About the question of WebOS being "really that good" the answer is no. Is a straight and utterly no. If the question had been "Was WebOS good?" it would've been a yes.

Let me characterize this way, WebOS hardcore fans (and pardon me the following harsh comment) are delusional. WebOS had the following things on its favor when it was launched:

1) The Card interface (their "wow" factor).
2) Unobtrusive notifications.
3) Synergy (as in "that's cool").
4) A GUI design that matched that of iOS, and that seem to offer a cohesive experience Android (pre-Droid) couldn't offer.

Time passed,

1) is still "wow-like", but WP7 took cues.
2) is actually against them now, it may be better than WP7 notifications (partially) but it's inferior to Android and iOS 5.x notification system (it forces you to swipe them off in order to get full screen real state again, this decision was made on smartphone platform that was consistently running on small screen devices *and* low res devices) .
3) Has been partially implemented by iOS and Android and WP7 is superior on this anyway,
4) WebOS has nothing on this against iOS and WP7, you could make a compelling case against Android, but nothing more.

People is no longer "wowed" by of those, but point 1. The market and the platforms moved forward. Nobody is going to be impressed with any WebOS device, and not because of the hardware, WebOS has always been subpar on many fronts, the performance is abysmal, I'm a former WebOS supporter and I dare any WebOS fan to even open Google Maps (or Bing Maps) on their device in front of any modern smartphone user, they will literally feel sorry for him.

The choppy scrolling and animations, and the ridiculous long time it took/take to launch apps are enough to make people look away. People is surprised by iOS, Android (recent devices, I think Android is a little choppy, and it's big presence on the market is hugely explained by Apple only launching on AT&T) and WP7 greatly because the OS is fluid.

And no, this wasn't a hardware issue. Pre- and Pre+ use basely the same exact hardware of the iPhone 3Gs, and the speed difference is just sad. The Pre 2 was an improvement, but compare it to the iPhone 4 (similar hardware again, with WebOS running at a hilariously low resolution).

I think WebOS had potential, but it never became an actuality (to put in the Aristotelian terms most people love), WP7 had potential, a lot, when it launched, I think that with Mango they will actualize. Both iOS and Android are the only two mobile OSes (public released OSes) that are actualities, and not mere potentialities (WP7 soon to be part of this list). In other words, WebOS always felt like a beta, an OS with good ideas poorly coded.
 
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nyquistjack

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I'd say delusional is a little harsh. I won't deny many of us are fan-boys and are willing to look past a lot of the shortcomings. I have to disagree though that webOS doesn't still have greatness. While I am enjoying Win7 so far, there is an elegance to the card design and the notification system and even the keyboard that make the experience flow in a certain way that no other OS (desktop, mobile, etc) has managed to be.

I do have to admit that that part of our love of the OS was always in what it could and should be. So, maaaaybe, we border on the delusional there. The lag, small app-base and being abandoned several times are hard to get through. I guess that is what has kept the community tight.

Of course, even the hardcore have their breaking point. Granted, some are hacking their hardware to stick with the platform but some of us are finally looking to other platforms.

Just reread your 4 points, I have to disagree on 3 of the 4.
1) Cards are still wow. While Win7 copied it, only in the barest of sense. It's the gesture (swipe up to bring up the card, swpie up again to close, and a flow to the app switching that just feels right)

2) I very much disagree here. Granted, losing that row of screen realestate on that tiny screen could be annoying, but the design was top notch. No matter what app I was in, even a 3d game, would allow me to see my notifications without being interrupted. Then when I am done playing, a single tap brings up all of my notifications that I can then toss away if its not important without having to open the app. There is even a patch that lets me delete email right from the notifications.

3) Agreed, webOS had the wow with synergy and agreed it completely squandered it. Lastly agreed that Win7 crushes the competition here. I love seeing that they are actively expanding it

4) The GUI as far as animations was and is lame, because for some damned fool reason they never hardware accelerated the thing to allow for more prettiness. The basic color pallet is pretty awful too :( But..and this is a huge but, there is a most certainly a cohesion that only Win7 competes with (and maybe even improves, this is actually the part of the OS I am most excited about, buttons be damned!!!). But all apps had the app menu in the upper left, all worked with the backswipe gesture, metatap for shortcuts across apps, swipe to delete items across the board and tap+drag to reorder stuff. The cohesion is one of its primary benefits.

Well this turned into a novel. Anywho, thats my opinion on the matter
 

augustofretes

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I'd say delusional is a little harsh. I won't deny many of us are fan-boys and are willing to look past a lot of the shortcomings.

Oh, I said *hardcore* WebOS fans, I consider myself a WebOS fan (I'm a tech ******, so I'm a fan of anybody who tries something new).

I have to disagree though that webOS doesn't still have greatness. While I am enjoying Win7 so far, there is an elegance to the card design and the notification system and even the keyboard that make the experience flow in a certain way that no other OS (desktop, mobile, etc) has managed to be.

Certain way doesn't imply better way. WebOS workflow was good, but it wasn't, in any way I can objectively describe, better (than current platforms), except for maybe (just maybe) just type and obviously the cards. The keyboard was really bad in all devices, but at least it was very integrated (as far as I've seen, on WP7 if you start typing on the home screen nothing happens).

I do have to admit that that part of our love of the OS was always in what it could and should be. So, maaaaybe, we border on the delusional there. The lag, small app-base and being abandoned several times are hard to get through. I guess that is what has kept the community tight.

Yes, it was about its potential. But truth is, WebOS barely changed from 1.0 to 2.2.

Of course, even the hardcore have their breaking point. Granted, some are hacking their hardware to stick with the platform but some of us are finally looking to other platforms.

I know, you were/are a fan, you expected HP to make WebOS moved forward, this didn't happen, unless you're a delusional irrational guy, you will jump ships.


1) Cards are still wow. While Win7 copied it, only in the barest of sense. It's the gesture (swipe up to bring up the card, swpie up again to close, and a flow to the app switching that just feels right)

I agree, I sad they took cues, not that they actually copied it. But, as technical value, I prefer iOS/WP7 model which prioritizes battery.

2) I very much disagree here. Granted, losing that row of screen realestate on that tiny screen could be annoying, but the design was top notch. No matter what app I was in, even a 3d game, would allow me to see my notifications without being interrupted. Then when I am done playing, a single tap brings up all of my notifications that I can then toss away if its not important without having to open the app. There is even a patch that lets me delete email right from the notifications.

This is part of being stuck on WebOS. Granted, even if you jumped to my currently favorite platform (WP7), you also jumped to the one which has the less stellar notification system. What you described is possible on iOS 5.x, and has been on Android since long ago. In fact, since they don't take away real screen state, they're less obtrusive.

Let me characterize it by showing a simple usage scenario: People browser the web while listening to music. On all other platforms you can get fast access to your multimedia controls without them permanently take screen space. On WebOS, you need to choose, either you get fast access to your multimedia controls or your full screen (by means of swiping off the controls).

Also, since the icons are colorful on a black background, they tend to be distracting. In fact, I would bet any amount of money that the usual usage pattern on WebOS is:

i) Get notification
ii) Automatically turn attention into the notifications, if on a hurry: swipe it off without caring much. If important: tap it and open the corresponding app.

I think there's barely any room for "will check it later", as people do on Android.

3) Agreed, webOS had the wow with synergy and agreed it completely squandered it. Lastly agreed that Win7 crushes the competition here. I love seeing that they are actively expanding it

Yep, WP7 really shines on that department.

4) The GUI as far as animations was and is lame, because for some damned fool reason they never hardware accelerated the thing to allow for more prettiness. The basic color pallet is pretty awful too :(

I know, it's so lame.

But..and this is a huge but, there is a most certainly a cohesion that only Win7 competes with (and maybe even improves, this is actually the part of the OS I am most excited about, buttons be damned!!!). But all apps had the app menu in the upper left, all worked with the backswipe gesture, metatap for shortcuts across apps, swipe to delete items across the board and tap+drag to reorder stuff. The cohesion is one of its primary benefits.

WP7 native apps are as consistent as it gets. There is less consistency on 3rd parties, I agree. However, WebOS had some (let me remark: some, most were fine) consistently bad designs, as the menu you just described, it was a bit of Palm OS era thinking inserted into a modern platform.

Well this turned into a novel. Anywho, thats my opinion on the matter

Glad you shared it. I think WebOS was good, and it had a lot of potential. But many WebOS (again) hardcore fans were really delusional and denied giving credit to any other OS ever coded.
 
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Reflexx

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I started watching Jericho on Netflix and really liked it. But forced myself to stop after a few episodes because I knew that I'd just feel extreme disappointment when I got to the end knowing that the full story wasn't told.
 

nyquistjack

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I started watching Jericho on Netflix and really liked it. But forced myself to stop after a few episodes because I knew that I'd just feel extreme disappointment when I got to the end knowing that the full story wasn't told.

Actually, they did sort of wrap it up. There was YEARS of content left to explore and they left it open for a pickup but the big questions were answered to some extent.

That being said, the end of the first season and through the second it got so good I would think about it all week. Then when they killed it I was seriously heartbroken. Luckily with Firefly it was dead before I started watching, so I knew what was coming, wasn't as painful.
 
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ikkf

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With Jericho, I got the impression they had to compress the five-season story arc into just two seasons, so some of it didn't make a whole lot of sense visually (Cheyenne getting rebuilt in a matter of months and not years).

Best show I've ever seen bar none is The Wire. Definitely worth a watch, and Amazon is having a sale on the full series DVD set right now.
 

nyquistjack

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With Jericho, I got the impression they had to compress the five-season story arc into just two seasons, so some of it didn't make a whole lot of sense visually (Cheyenne getting rebuilt in a matter of months and not years).

Best show I've ever seen bar none is The Wire. Definitely worth a watch, and Amazon is having a sale on the full series DVD set right now.

Agreed, the last half of the second season was definitely rushed. I thought what made the show so good was that they were willing to take their time and get the audience emotionally invested. I thought it was very believable throughout.

i've never heard of the wire actually (no cable). But I will definitely look into it now.
 

toddos

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and how CBS handled Jericho, and how ABC handled Twin Peaks, and how HBO very nearly handled The Wire...

And how HBO did handle Carnivale. There are still times I miss that show, though I don't think I ever understood the half of it.
 

ikkf

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i've never heard of the wire actually (no cable). But I will definitely look into it now.
It's one of those shows that grow on you. The characters start off as a bit unlikeable, but if you can stick with it past season one, you'll begin to see how it really shines.

toddos, I've heard good things about Carnivale from others as well. I need to give that a shot as well.
 

Rico

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Hey, you webOS guys are alright. Glad to see some more people here who are passionate about a product, particularly one with such notable a focus on usability and function as webOS, without being foaming-at-the-mouth fanboys about it.
 

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