The Attitude Of Others Towards WP

Sparxy19

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Thats exactly right... People just dont seem to know they even exist so i think that MS have to get there act together and spend some big money developing the best advertising campaign the world has ever seen otherwise WP will just keep plodding along at the same pace (which doesnt really worry me aslong as they dont decide to scrap it). Microsoft have the money to do this so why dont they hurry up and do it???
 

palandri

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Nokia is not factor here in the US. Some here on this forum focus on Nokia like they're going to be the savior, but the fact of the matter is that tech nerds are the Nokia honks and the general public that'll be buying these phones are Nokia honks like most tech nerds.

WP7 will not grow based on a single phone manufacturer. It has to grow organically just like Android. When people think of Android they don't think of one particular manufacturer. It's many that make up the whole and for WinP7 to succeed that'll have to be the case.

You're right, Nokia isn't a factor in the U.S.. When people in the U.S. hear Nokia, they think of the Nokia Theatre in LA. Thinking "worldwide" Nokia is pretty dominant, which will give Microsoft a bigger piece of the mobile marketplace, plus I am sure they will gain a share of the U.S. marketplace with their new windows phone. We'll see what happens after another year.
 

jimmy1one

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I agree with this. I use Vista and it functions properly for me. I use Xbox 360 and while my 2005 360 RROD on me I bought a new on in Feb. I don't hold any of that against MS, but for some reason a lot people do. I also think that with Apple becoming so trendy and the commercials for Iphone, Ipad and the 'I am a Mac" people feel the need to go in that direction and pay $1,300 for a 13in slim computer bc they feel cool by turning away MS.

People choose Android bc it is so prevalent. You can't walk into a retailer without seeing it. People see the commercials and that drives more sales. Android is the only game at most of the 4th and 5th tier carriers such as Metro PCS and Boost Mobile.
The answer seems to be WP 7 is a first gen OS that holds it's own and then some with the competition. Mango will be a boost but time and hands on review along with word of mouth is going to push WP 7. If the next upgrade is also available without having to get a new phone then we can all come back here and have the conversation again. You can say what you will but upgrading without having to purchase a new phone is a big deal unless someone else is paying the bill. I think this is one time MS has the pulse if not the vibe. No fear of being sued for monopoly so loose the hounds let em go I say. Throw the sink at the problem and the competition, let's see who is left standing. Damn I love being on the edge let's get ready to rumble
 

Pronk

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I agree with this. I use Vista and it functions properly for me. I use Xbox 360 and while my 2005 360 RROD on me I bought a new on in Feb. I don't hold any of that against MS, but for some reason a lot people do.

Well to be honest, you should hold it against them because it's their fault - and this is one of the big points I'm making. The original design of the Xbox 360 was rushed to get it to market before the PS3, hence the design flaw that literally snaps it apart if it overheats. I know people who've gone through three or four xboxes, and it has cost Microsoft millions in replacements and god knows how much more in lost revenue. And how long has it taken to get to the current actually quite decent 360 design. Three goes? Vista was a much delayed, bloated operating system that was replaced very quickly because of its lukewarm reviews and lukewarm performance. Sure, Windows 7 is much, much better and more streamlined - but then it had to be.

These were serious knockbacks but deserved knockbacks. Microsoft was behaving like it was still the late 1990s/early 2000s where it could just throw money at a market until it dominated it then sit back and release products that were alright. Not any more. Now it has to be at least as good as everyone else, if not better, because it has serious competition on almost all fronts. And we, as consumers, absolutely need to not give Microsoft (or any other company) a free ride. We need to make sure if something is poor, they know it and learn from it. And if they don't - they don't deserve to do well in the marketplace.
 

smartpatrol

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You're right, Nokia isn't a factor in the U.S.. When people in the U.S. hear Nokia, they think of the Nokia Theatre in LA. Thinking "worldwide" Nokia is pretty dominant, which will give Microsoft a bigger piece of the mobile marketplace, plus I am sure they will gain a share of the U.S. marketplace with their new windows phone. We'll see what happens after another year.

True, but this is mainly because Nokia has only sold their high-end phones unlocked in the USA. You couldn't get them subsidized through carriers, the way the vast majority prefer to do it in the USA. Heck, the only place I have actually seen an N8 was a non-functioning display model at Fry's. . . on a display separate from the other smartphones and from the cell phone sales people.

Nokia has said that they are taking a US-centric approach this time around. They're going to sell their Windows phones subsidized by carriers. And they and MS supposedly have money set aside for a huge advertising blitz. I really think Nokia's smartphones can be a hit in the USA. The hardware quality is amazing.

MS has a solid, compelling product. All that's missing is marketing. They need to convince people that WP7 is something they should desire. That it's something people choose because they WANT it. They managed to do it with Xbox, they can do it again.
 

Omnomnomkimiiee

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The problem is that, as previously stated, Microsoft has a bad reputation among common users. I was Shopping for a new phone (I got a Wildfire S, should've bought an Omnia 7) and one of the sales guy was showing it off to a man whose main argument for not wanting it was that it was, I quote, "De la merde de chez Microsoft". I won't translate. He isn't the first person I've heard say that, most of them are immensely tired of Vista, of Windows's generally unpractical user-interface, of unreliable software ... And even though WP is great, and is getting better with every update, the "Microsoft" label is what can be referred as a "turn-off".

Also, WpOS isn't as popular as Android or iOS. Apple has the advantage of almost flawless Marketing and huge popularity among youngsters, who tend to think that having a iCostALot will make them cool. Android is what people think when you tell them "Smartphone"; the range of phones available is enormous, and a already huge amount of people have a Android-running phone, or at least have heard of it. Out of 50 strangers I interviewed, 2 had a Windows Phone, 5 wanted one, 9 had "vaguely heard of it", and the others didn't want one/had never heard of it.


Sent from a mysterious mobile device.
 

palandri

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True, but this is mainly because Nokia has only sold their high-end phones unlocked in the USA. You couldn't get them subsidized through carriers, the way the vast majority prefer to do it in the USA. Heck, the only place I have actually seen an N8 was a non-functioning display model at Fry's. . . on a display separate from the other smartphones and from the cell phone sales people.

Nokia has said that they are taking a US-centric approach this time around. They're going to sell their Windows phones subsidized by carriers. And they and MS supposedly have money set aside for a huge advertising blitz. I really think Nokia's smartphones can be a hit in the USA. The hardware quality is amazing.

MS has a solid, compelling product. All that's missing is marketing. They need to convince people that WP7 is something they should desire. That it's something people choose because they WANT it. They managed to do it with Xbox, they can do it again.

You bring up an interesting point, why are unlocked, unsubsidized phones more popular in Europe? My wife and I go to France and the only thing I can see is the voice/data packages are less expensive if you buy the phone outright (something that they should do here), plus they are all GSM over there.
 

thed

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the only thing I can see is the voice/data packages are less expensive if you buy the phone outright
I think that's it right there. I would buy unsubsidized every time if it meant lower costs for the plan. But it doesn't, so there's no reason not to go subsidized when you can, unless you're looking to switch carriers in the near future. And even then it may be worth it to just pay the ETF anyway.
 

smartpatrol

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You bring up an interesting point, why are unlocked, unsubsidized phones more popular in Europe? My wife and I go to France and the only thing I can see is the voice/data packages are less expensive if you buy the phone outright (something that they should do here), plus they are all GSM over there.

I think it's because most carriers don't offer you a discount if you bring your own device. AFAIK T-Mobile is the only one that does. None of them advertise this because they'd rather lock you into a contract. And most Americans aren't thrilled at the thought of buying a $400-500 smartphone off contract.

Google tried to shake things up by launching the Nexus One as an unlocked device. It flopped pretty badly. It sucks, but I think all the manufacturers got the message loud and clear: your phone will not sell in the USA unless it's subsidized by a carrier.
 

Pronk

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Here in the UK, the sim-only deals are brilliant and getting better. For ?10 a month now there are a selection of offers, most with at least 300 minutes to any network, hundreds if not unlimited texts, and a good 1/2 GB of data.

My Mozart was just ?150 from eBay and in perfect condition. If I sell it on in a year, I expect to make at least half that back. Couple that with the cheapness and flexibility of the sim-only deal (mine is 12 months, but even 1-month ones are pretty good) and you'd be mad to pay contract prices. For a little more up front in one go, you save loads down the line. I intend to pick up a newer WP7 phone sometime next spring when there are enough in the market to make second-hand prices on eBay reasonable.

And tying it nicely in with the topic, Microsoft could do worse to point out to people that WP7 gives you a **** of a lot more bang for your buck. Unless you're on top-end android hardware, you'll have stutters and stalls and corners cut. WP7 seems to run excellently on all the hardware. Hopefully this is what Tango is aiming at: making lower end phones actually worth having.
 

ikkf

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Image problem. Microsoft has always seemed a bit of a 'big gray corporation' to most people, due to the business nature of their software. They really should think about re-branding WP7 to something that rolls off the tongue, maybe keep Mango as the new permanent name, as some have suggested. It's only when they re-brand their products that they start to have sex appeal, like Xbox and Zune. I mean, everyone I show my Focus to is just wowed by it so they have so much to gain by naming it something other than the clunky 'Windows Phone 7.'
 

theefman

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I've been at this a long time, it's the first time I've seen people say MS can not market, compete or dominate a platform in a long time. The issue is does the phone and the built-in apps work and work as advertised out of the box. Seeing is believing, hands on is show and tell and this phone says it with class and does not crash. Can you say your Andy or IPhone is as stable, looks as impressive and works as well. It makes no difference if there are a million apps if the the phone does not work and the apps are dups where's the value. Everyone who sees mine in action asks about the phone without exception.

This is exactly my point. When people SEE WP7 they like it. But when there is no advertising to make them aware of it, how can they form any opinion of it? You are able to influence maybe a 100 people, effective advertising will influence MILLIONS. By choice or not, the lack of advertising for WP7 is not helping.
 

Wiccan Lagar

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I posted a story on the PreCentral forums when I was just getting my Pre 2. I asked the sales person for the device and she basically said "Why would you want that phone? It's so complicated. When people ask us for that phone we tell them to get an android or an iPhone, or we just laugh in their face." Then she proceeded to tell me they don't try to sell any devices that people may return because they count as strikes against them (for lack of better terms.) She then told me no verizon store within a 30 mile radius had the Pre 2 in stock.

Why should I care if they have a strike against them? I want the phone I want and if they keep their jobs or not is none of my concern to be honest. Secondly, was she telling me that she was going to laugh in my face in a moment? What I should have done was say "Laugh in my face huh? Tell you what...cancle my service now." Hind-site is always 20/20. I would love to see what the "strike against her" would be if they lost a customer because she laughs in people faces for not buying android or iOS.

I blame it on retail store/reps entirely. Even in TMobile, all the android phones were plugged in and ready to go. I had to request for them to plug the HD7 in to charge ebcause it was completely dead, where she then told me to come back the next day so she can have it charged. Needless to say I came back the next day to take my frist look at WP7 and it still wasn't charged. I sat there and made them plug it in so I try it out, all the while she tried telling me that the Android OS is cleaner looking than WP7.

They aren't trying to sell what is good, only what is popular and safe for business. It's sad really.

All in all, after playing with WP7 for 15, even after my horrible outlook of Microsoft (no pun intended), I now have a Dell Venue Pro in the mail. All is well that ends well.
 

mmbond

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Just posted this in another thread but seemed very/more appropriate for this one:

a lot of people have weighed in on this and will continue to, so i'll add my 2 cents to the mix. I don't have an iPhone but I do have an iPod touch that I "had" to have and I hardly ever, if ever use it. Chalk it up to consumerist mentality...

While it has a beautiful form factor and is the leader for a reason, I think the majority of it has to do with ecosystem, marketing and status.

iPhone (and most things "i") has become synonymous with quality+smartphone. think about it this way, most of us when we have to blow our nose ask for a "Kleenex". the correct term would be "tissue", but it has become pervasive to ask for "kleenex" whether or not the tissue is that brand or not. Same with Coke and many other items.

Because of this when anyone thinks smartphone, they think iPhone. It's become the associative word and a status symbol. People either buy it or aspire to it.

The genius of Apple/Jobs is their emphasis on a premium form factor and evolution of their ecosystem as well as exceptional marketing.

Android has achieved this to some degree by sheer volume and multiple price points for devices. (i.e. not everyone can "afford" an iPhone). It also helps that they promoted customization which appeals to a different /younger demo.

I've heard from many people (less from Android users), that although they think Windows Phones are gorgeous they've invested too much $ in the "i" ecosystem to leave.

Any of us can talk/persuade until we're blue in the face, but you won't satisfy your curiosity until you've either tried/owned an iDevice and a fellow owner/aspirant says "cool!"

Peer pressure is a .....!
Perception is everything.
 

willied

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It's really just a domino effect. Everyone has an iPhone and so the ones who don't have one and don't know anything about phones want one. And the rest that go to Android either want a cheaper or more powerful phone, don't like Apple, or want more customization. People just don't know about WP7. I don't know anyone with a WP7 phone personally. I think a lot of the non-fanboys would like it if they just tried it. It's a shame, really.
 

ikkf

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Steveg, that's some extremely unprofessional behavior by the sales rep. I'm not the kind of guy who normally does this sort of thing, but I would totally report that to the store manager and even go higher up the chain if possible.
 

selfcreation

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no kidding Steveg ,

would of been my staff that said that to you . i would of walked onto the flore and FIRED the REP right in front of you and apologized to you.

who says that? ** we laugh in there face* ..seriously .... i use to push WM ALLOT when I was just a front line REP . but when people said I want IPHONE i want ANDROID i want WEBOS ect... ... **** i sold them a freaking Android or an Iphone or w/e... ( after i showed them my WM obviously )

long story short ... does are not good sell reps. and it sucks to see our OS suffer because of incompetence. Hardware, apps, lack of features , ok!!! but because of a stupid rep.. not acceptable.
 

Reflexx

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Sadly, I think it's human nature to want to stereotype.

When people do it with people, they sometimes catch themselves. But heck, if it's not a controversial stereotype, they'll still hold on to their prejudices. Just because they don't even realize it. And sometimes pointing it out to them will just cause them to get defensive. Because nobody wants to be like that. And realizing it hurts.

Now, when it comes to products, it's even harder for people to realize their own biases sometimes. It's not even remotely as important, so there isn't really a desire to sit back and self evaluate.
 

slinky826

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This has been very true. I remember when I went to a local AT&T store when my upgrade came available, I was tore between an Android phone (don't even remember which one now) and the LG Quantum.

When I mentioned my choices to a sales rep, he pushed for the Android phone, saying I'd be disappointed with the LG, cause it didn't have as many apps and blah blah blah. I told him I was a big Xbox Gamer and liked the connectivity that the phone had, plus it didn't just look like another iPhone copy-cat.

Anyways, he just continues to push the damn Android and finally I just said, I don't care, I want the LG. I like the WP7 OS better, the slickness better, the heft (it really does feel like a solid built phone), the rubber finish and of course, the slide-out keyboard. The entire time he rang me up, he just had this "you're making a big mistake" attitude with me.

Now, 3 months later, I can't be happier with my LG Quantum and WP7. And yes, I have played around with iPhones before, and never liked the cluttered mess of apps that made up the "desktop", and Android phones just never felt user-friendly. It's sad that there isn't more attention paid to WP7 devices, because it's been a breeze using this phone. I wouldn't trade it for anything..... ok, maybe a new Mango phone, but I'd just be happy with the update for now.
 

theefman

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On engadget right now (sadly a popular and influential but anti-MS site) there are articles on a motorola pro+, samsung galaxy s II, xiaomi, samsung epic 4g, samsung conquer, huawei honor android phones. And thats just today! Absolutely nothing about WP7, and this is a huge part of the problem. We are supposedly just weeks (at most 8) away from Mango releases, already have seen the Fujitsu launch yet the slience from MS and their partners is deafening. No teasers, promos, from anyone of the WP7 partners? Anyone reading that site wont even know WP7 exists, how are they supposed to want to buy it?
 

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