09-15-2011 04:25 AM
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  1. Omnomnomkimiiee's Avatar
    The problem is that, as previously stated, Microsoft has a bad reputation among common users. I was Shopping for a new phone (I got a Wildfire S, should've bought an Omnia 7) and one of the sales guy was showing it off to a man whose main argument for not wanting it was that it was, I quote, "De la merde de chez Microsoft". I won't translate. He isn't the first person I've heard say that, most of them are immensely tired of Vista, of Windows's generally unpractical user-interface, of unreliable software ... And even though WP is great, and is getting better with every update, the "Microsoft" label is what can be referred as a "turn-off".

    Also, WpOS isn't as popular as Android or iOS. Apple has the advantage of almost flawless Marketing and huge popularity among youngsters, who tend to think that having a iCostALot will make them cool. Android is what people think when you tell them "Smartphone"; the range of phones available is enormous, and a already huge amount of people have a Android-running phone, or at least have heard of it. Out of 50 strangers I interviewed, 2 had a Windows Phone, 5 wanted one, 9 had "vaguely heard of it", and the others didn't want one/had never heard of it.


    Sent from a mysterious mobile device.
    smartpatrol likes this.
    08-30-2011 10:04 AM
  2. palandri's Avatar
    True, but this is mainly because Nokia has only sold their high-end phones unlocked in the USA. You couldn't get them subsidized through carriers, the way the vast majority prefer to do it in the USA. Heck, the only place I have actually seen an N8 was a non-functioning display model at Fry's. . . on a display separate from the other smartphones and from the cell phone sales people.

    Nokia has said that they are taking a US-centric approach this time around. They're going to sell their Windows phones subsidized by carriers. And they and MS supposedly have money set aside for a huge advertising blitz. I really think Nokia's smartphones can be a hit in the USA. The hardware quality is amazing.

    MS has a solid, compelling product. All that's missing is marketing. They need to convince people that WP7 is something they should desire. That it's something people choose because they WANT it. They managed to do it with Xbox, they can do it again.
    You bring up an interesting point, why are unlocked, unsubsidized phones more popular in Europe? My wife and I go to France and the only thing I can see is the voice/data packages are less expensive if you buy the phone outright (something that they should do here), plus they are all GSM over there.
    08-30-2011 10:35 AM
  3. thed's Avatar
    the only thing I can see is the voice/data packages are less expensive if you buy the phone outright
    I think that's it right there. I would buy unsubsidized every time if it meant lower costs for the plan. But it doesn't, so there's no reason not to go subsidized when you can, unless you're looking to switch carriers in the near future. And even then it may be worth it to just pay the ETF anyway.
    08-30-2011 10:42 AM
  4. smartpatrol's Avatar
    You bring up an interesting point, why are unlocked, unsubsidized phones more popular in Europe? My wife and I go to France and the only thing I can see is the voice/data packages are less expensive if you buy the phone outright (something that they should do here), plus they are all GSM over there.
    I think it's because most carriers don't offer you a discount if you bring your own device. AFAIK T-Mobile is the only one that does. None of them advertise this because they'd rather lock you into a contract. And most Americans aren't thrilled at the thought of buying a $400-500 smartphone off contract.

    Google tried to shake things up by launching the Nexus One as an unlocked device. It flopped pretty badly. It sucks, but I think all the manufacturers got the message loud and clear: your phone will not sell in the USA unless it's subsidized by a carrier.
    08-30-2011 10:49 AM
  5. Pronk's Avatar
    Here in the UK, the sim-only deals are brilliant and getting better. For 10 a month now there are a selection of offers, most with at least 300 minutes to any network, hundreds if not unlimited texts, and a good 1/2 GB of data.

    My Mozart was just 150 from eBay and in perfect condition. If I sell it on in a year, I expect to make at least half that back. Couple that with the cheapness and flexibility of the sim-only deal (mine is 12 months, but even 1-month ones are pretty good) and you'd be mad to pay contract prices. For a little more up front in one go, you save loads down the line. I intend to pick up a newer WP7 phone sometime next spring when there are enough in the market to make second-hand prices on eBay reasonable.

    And tying it nicely in with the topic, Microsoft could do worse to point out to people that WP7 gives you a **** of a lot more bang for your buck. Unless you're on top-end android hardware, you'll have stutters and stalls and corners cut. WP7 seems to run excellently on all the hardware. Hopefully this is what Tango is aiming at: making lower end phones actually worth having.
    08-30-2011 10:58 AM
  6. ikkf's Avatar
    Image problem. Microsoft has always seemed a bit of a 'big gray corporation' to most people, due to the business nature of their software. They really should think about re-branding WP7 to something that rolls off the tongue, maybe keep Mango as the new permanent name, as some have suggested. It's only when they re-brand their products that they start to have sex appeal, like Xbox and Zune. I mean, everyone I show my Focus to is just wowed by it so they have so much to gain by naming it something other than the clunky 'Windows Phone 7.'
    08-30-2011 11:36 AM
  7. theefman's Avatar
    I've been at this a long time, it's the first time I've seen people say MS can not market, compete or dominate a platform in a long time. The issue is does the phone and the built-in apps work and work as advertised out of the box. Seeing is believing, hands on is show and tell and this phone says it with class and does not crash. Can you say your Andy or IPhone is as stable, looks as impressive and works as well. It makes no difference if there are a million apps if the the phone does not work and the apps are dups where's the value. Everyone who sees mine in action asks about the phone without exception.
    This is exactly my point. When people SEE WP7 they like it. But when there is no advertising to make them aware of it, how can they form any opinion of it? You are able to influence maybe a 100 people, effective advertising will influence MILLIONS. By choice or not, the lack of advertising for WP7 is not helping.
    08-30-2011 12:31 PM
  8. Wiccan Lagar's Avatar
    I posted a story on the PreCentral forums when I was just getting my Pre 2. I asked the sales person for the device and she basically said "Why would you want that phone? It's so complicated. When people ask us for that phone we tell them to get an android or an iPhone, or we just laugh in their face." Then she proceeded to tell me they don't try to sell any devices that people may return because they count as strikes against them (for lack of better terms.) She then told me no verizon store within a 30 mile radius had the Pre 2 in stock.

    Why should I care if they have a strike against them? I want the phone I want and if they keep their jobs or not is none of my concern to be honest. Secondly, was she telling me that she was going to laugh in my face in a moment? What I should have done was say "Laugh in my face huh? Tell you what...cancle my service now." Hind-site is always 20/20. I would love to see what the "strike against her" would be if they lost a customer because she laughs in people faces for not buying android or iOS.

    I blame it on retail store/reps entirely. Even in TMobile, all the android phones were plugged in and ready to go. I had to request for them to plug the HD7 in to charge ebcause it was completely dead, where she then told me to come back the next day so she can have it charged. Needless to say I came back the next day to take my frist look at WP7 and it still wasn't charged. I sat there and made them plug it in so I try it out, all the while she tried telling me that the Android OS is cleaner looking than WP7.

    They aren't trying to sell what is good, only what is popular and safe for business. It's sad really.

    All in all, after playing with WP7 for 15, even after my horrible outlook of Microsoft (no pun intended), I now have a Dell Venue Pro in the mail. All is well that ends well.
    theefman likes this.
    08-30-2011 01:21 PM
  9. mmbond's Avatar
    Just posted this in another thread but seemed very/more appropriate for this one:

    a lot of people have weighed in on this and will continue to, so i'll add my 2 cents to the mix. I don't have an iPhone but I do have an iPod touch that I "had" to have and I hardly ever, if ever use it. Chalk it up to consumerist mentality...

    While it has a beautiful form factor and is the leader for a reason, I think the majority of it has to do with ecosystem, marketing and status.

    iPhone (and most things "i") has become synonymous with quality+smartphone. think about it this way, most of us when we have to blow our nose ask for a "Kleenex". the correct term would be "tissue", but it has become pervasive to ask for "kleenex" whether or not the tissue is that brand or not. Same with Coke and many other items.

    Because of this when anyone thinks smartphone, they think iPhone. It's become the associative word and a status symbol. People either buy it or aspire to it.

    The genius of Apple/Jobs is their emphasis on a premium form factor and evolution of their ecosystem as well as exceptional marketing.

    Android has achieved this to some degree by sheer volume and multiple price points for devices. (i.e. not everyone can "afford" an iPhone). It also helps that they promoted customization which appeals to a different /younger demo.

    I've heard from many people (less from Android users), that although they think Windows Phones are gorgeous they've invested too much $ in the "i" ecosystem to leave.

    Any of us can talk/persuade until we're blue in the face, but you won't satisfy your curiosity until you've either tried/owned an iDevice and a fellow owner/aspirant says "cool!"

    Peer pressure is a .....!
    Perception is everything.
    08-30-2011 02:03 PM
  10. willied's Avatar
    It's really just a domino effect. Everyone has an iPhone and so the ones who don't have one and don't know anything about phones want one. And the rest that go to Android either want a cheaper or more powerful phone, don't like Apple, or want more customization. People just don't know about WP7. I don't know anyone with a WP7 phone personally. I think a lot of the non-fanboys would like it if they just tried it. It's a shame, really.
    08-30-2011 02:24 PM
  11. ikkf's Avatar
    Steveg, that's some extremely unprofessional behavior by the sales rep. I'm not the kind of guy who normally does this sort of thing, but I would totally report that to the store manager and even go higher up the chain if possible.
    08-30-2011 02:26 PM
  12. selfcreation's Avatar
    no kidding Steveg ,

    would of been my staff that said that to you . i would of walked onto the flore and FIRED the REP right in front of you and apologized to you.

    who says that? ** we laugh in there face* ..seriously .... i use to push WM ALLOT when I was just a front line REP . but when people said I want IPHONE i want ANDROID i want WEBOS ect... ... **** i sold them a freaking Android or an Iphone or w/e... ( after i showed them my WM obviously )

    long story short ... does are not good sell reps. and it sucks to see our OS suffer because of incompetence. Hardware, apps, lack of features , ok!!! but because of a stupid rep.. not acceptable.
    08-30-2011 02:33 PM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    Sadly, I think it's human nature to want to stereotype.

    When people do it with people, they sometimes catch themselves. But heck, if it's not a controversial stereotype, they'll still hold on to their prejudices. Just because they don't even realize it. And sometimes pointing it out to them will just cause them to get defensive. Because nobody wants to be like that. And realizing it hurts.

    Now, when it comes to products, it's even harder for people to realize their own biases sometimes. It's not even remotely as important, so there isn't really a desire to sit back and self evaluate.
    08-30-2011 02:55 PM
  14. slinky826's Avatar
    This has been very true. I remember when I went to a local AT&T store when my upgrade came available, I was tore between an Android phone (don't even remember which one now) and the LG Quantum.

    When I mentioned my choices to a sales rep, he pushed for the Android phone, saying I'd be disappointed with the LG, cause it didn't have as many apps and blah blah blah. I told him I was a big Xbox Gamer and liked the connectivity that the phone had, plus it didn't just look like another iPhone copy-cat.

    Anyways, he just continues to push the damn Android and finally I just said, I don't care, I want the LG. I like the WP7 OS better, the slickness better, the heft (it really does feel like a solid built phone), the rubber finish and of course, the slide-out keyboard. The entire time he rang me up, he just had this "you're making a big mistake" attitude with me.

    Now, 3 months later, I can't be happier with my LG Quantum and WP7. And yes, I have played around with iPhones before, and never liked the cluttered mess of apps that made up the "desktop", and Android phones just never felt user-friendly. It's sad that there isn't more attention paid to WP7 devices, because it's been a breeze using this phone. I wouldn't trade it for anything..... ok, maybe a new Mango phone, but I'd just be happy with the update for now.
    08-30-2011 04:51 PM
  15. theefman's Avatar
    On engadget right now (sadly a popular and influential but anti-MS site) there are articles on a motorola pro+, samsung galaxy s II, xiaomi, samsung epic 4g, samsung conquer, huawei honor android phones. And thats just today! Absolutely nothing about WP7, and this is a huge part of the problem. We are supposedly just weeks (at most 8) away from Mango releases, already have seen the Fujitsu launch yet the slience from MS and their partners is deafening. No teasers, promos, from anyone of the WP7 partners? Anyone reading that site wont even know WP7 exists, how are they supposed to want to buy it?
    08-30-2011 05:05 PM
  16. selfcreation's Avatar
    On engadget right now (sadly a popular and influential but anti-MS site) there are articles on a motorola pro+, samsung galaxy s II, xiaomi, samsung epic 4g, samsung conquer, huawei honor android phones. And thats just today! Absolutely nothing about WP7, and this is a huge part of the problem. We are supposedly just weeks (at most 8) away from Mango releases, already have seen the Fujitsu launch yet the slience from MS and their partners is deafening. No teasers, promos, from anyone of the WP7 partners? Anyone reading that site wont even know WP7 exists, how are they supposed to want to buy it?

    well thast not 100% true lol i got my FOCUS after reading all the reviews on ENgaget. but yeah they could talk more about it.
    08-30-2011 05:28 PM
  17. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't expect most of the MS partners to make much of an effort until after Nokia does. The others are kind of just sticking their toe in the water to see if it's warm.
    08-30-2011 05:31 PM
  18. Sparxy19's Avatar
    But thats just it. Its a Domino effect, if websites dont have anything about them, then people wont know about them which will often lead to people thinking they must be crap. Hopefully when the Mango phones come out most of the tech sites do reveiws on them so that they can get a bit more awareness. When i baught my android phone in Febuary i didnt even know that WP7 was an option. If you go on any tech website there will be Android phones being advertised every where, all down the sides of the pages and in between articles and yet you never see a WP being advertised. Nokia has to lead the way with advertising and prove to the other handset makers that if you put in a little bit of effort then you can make HEAPS of money from making and selling good WP hardware.
    08-30-2011 09:33 PM
  19. jimmy1one's Avatar
    This is exactly my point. When people SEE WP7 they like it. But when there is no advertising to make them aware of it, how can they form any opinion of it? You are able to influence maybe a 100 people, effective advertising will influence MILLIONS. By choice or not, the lack of advertising for WP7 is not helping.
    no kidding Steveg ,

    would of been my staff that said that to you . i would of walked onto the flore and FIRED the REP right in front of you and apologized to you.

    who says that? ** we laugh in there face* ..seriously .... i use to push WM ALLOT when I was just a front line REP . but when people said I want IPHONE i want ANDROID i want WEBOS ect... ... **** i sold them a freaking Android or an Iphone or w/e... ( after i showed them my WM obviously )

    long story short ... does are not good sell reps. and it sucks to see our OS suffer because of incompetence. Hardware, apps, lack of features , ok!!! but because of a stupid rep.. not acceptable.
    I have to agree with you on this point but it begs the question, what kind of ninny would make a major purchase on the word of a store rep. Maybe I'm just ole tyme but Geez Louise what has happened to common sense? I remember when buying Apple was the thing for people who think outside the box. The IPhone was the thing because it was so far ahead. Anyone who can read knows that's no longer the issue. I know a couple of people with 32g Sammy Focus and IPhone 4. The Focus is better IMHO and has IPhone 4 beat according the Wow factor. It not a matter of if the WP can compete any longer, adding the Xbox gaming Extras will stir things up come holiday season. Hey guys I'm just a consumer I got the Focus because of the features and my preference for Samsung Products. I'm more concerned about the ability or lack thereof regarding developer access to the API when it comes the Speech engine voice to text and text to voice. I want to truly interface and real multitasking. Advertising well I mean MS does have an AD department?
    08-30-2011 09:51 PM
  20. smartpatrol's Avatar
    I definitely think it's all down to marketing. Right now none of the OEMs really have anything to gain by pushing WP7. They might as well just stick with Android and avoid the $15/device license they have to pay for WP7. I certainly can't blame them.

    The only way WP7 will get ahead is when people start asking for it. And it's up to MS's marketing to convince people they want it.

    It'll be a breath of fresh air when Nokia finally gets into the WP7 game. They're the only ones who will be pushing WP7 on ALL their devices. They'll be putting out flagship phones with WP7 and marketing them like crazy. They won't be treating WP7 as an afterthought like the other OEMs.

    And Nokia is very big on marketing. Look at Tron Legacy and Transformers 3 for a couple recent examples.
    palandri likes this.
    08-30-2011 09:53 PM
  21. DontHate707's Avatar
    My friend did the same thing! He dropped his iPhone in the pool and got a atrix he didnt barely considered wp7 he actually like the atrix tho so he's not switching anytime soon he's actually had quite of few problems too like with all my friends androids my wp7 has only froze up on my like twice if that kinda funny androids are like smartphones with dumbphone qualities lol
    08-30-2011 10:09 PM
  22. DontHate707's Avatar
    Some tech sites are doing wp7 news not really the huge like popular ones but the ones techies know about wp7 isn't hated my websites like pocketnow
    08-30-2011 10:12 PM
  23. theefman's Avatar
    Geez Louise what has happened to common sense?
    Dead mate, stone cold dead! :) As for the speech API, it will be coming: TellMe Powered Speech API Coming To Windows Phone Developers | WMPoweruser

    I definitely think it's all down to marketing. Right now none of the OEMs really have anything to gain by pushing WP7. They might as well just stick with Android and avoid the $15/device license they have to pay for WP7. I certainly can't blame them.

    The only way WP7 will get ahead is when people start asking for it. And it's up to MS's marketing to convince people they want it.

    It'll be a breath of fresh air when Nokia finally gets into the WP7 game. They're the only ones who will be pushing WP7 on ALL their devices. They'll be putting out flagship phones with WP7 and marketing them like crazy. They won't be treating WP7 as an afterthought like the other OEMs.

    And Nokia is very big on marketing. Look at Tron Legacy and Transformers 3 for a couple recent examples.
    Well said! But OEM's like htc and samsung ARE paying the licence fee, so one wonders why are they wasting their time and money by not pushing WP7 and getting a return for that investment?
    08-30-2011 10:20 PM
  24. Sparxy19's Avatar
    Some tech sites are doing wp7 news not really the huge like popular ones but the ones techies know about wp7 isn't hated my websites like pocketnow
    Yer i quite like pocketnow but i mainly just use wpcentral to keep up with all the WP news.

    I just wish people would give WP a bit more of chance, as soon as they use it they will realise just how good it is.
    08-30-2011 11:34 PM
  25. cckgz4's Avatar
    I think word of mouth and more devices will help the OS thrive. Blogs already rave about the potential of Mango updates. Once they release that and the newer devices, it'll be a different story.

    And all fanboys are nutcases.
    08-31-2011 12:19 AM
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