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09-15-2011 04:25 AM
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  1. Big Supes's Avatar
    google probably wouldnt allow it. Or find a way to constantly break it.
    Unfortunately, I have to agree . . .

    EDIT: Vimeo could be a good place for MS to get Zune linked to videos.
    Last edited by Big Supes; 09-08-2011 at 01:01 PM.
    09-08-2011 09:00 AM
  2. kylej1050's Avatar
    I've been doing my part in spreading the joys of WP7. BB users here at work have to use POP3 to access email(because no way I'm paying for a BES server) and so all their emails in outlook come in as read already.

    My CEO asks "Why don't you have this problem on your phone?"... Easy answer, I go into outlook, setup the exchange account, and boom, done. Then he says "No, I mean on your phone." hahaha

    Android users are an easy sell. Just show them your half-charged battery at the end of a full day with no charger. ESPECIALLY 4G phone owners. Friend of mine in Dallas says he can kill his battery in an hour and a half or so if he's browsing on 4G with his evo... Eek!
    09-08-2011 09:05 AM
  3. Pronk's Avatar
    I really don't understand the bitter hatred towards MS. Some people act like Bill Gates raped their granny! Sure, Vista was a load of crap, but apart from that, why all the hatred?
    Well, here's my personal experience. I'm admittedly a convert to WP7 now, but I wouldn't touch Microsoft stuff for years for three reasons:

    1. My Windows XP laptop crashed and wiped ALL my photos from a fantastic once in a lifetime holiday I'd had - after years of owning PCs that were obsolete in months and/or got virus infested, this was the last straw and desktop-wise I've been a Mac user ever since.

    2. At work, I used to have to use XP on a crummy Dell every single day. I work in publishing, and have done for 15 years now, and I've probably lost months of time in total to MS Word random lockups and blue screens of death. And my experience is in no way unique.

    3. I also had to deal with our IT department a lot. All Windows guys. All of them treated everyone with contempt and as if we were morons - again, not a unique situation. I've similarly been treated like crap by staff in PC World who assume the customer is always an ***** to be talked down to.

    You know the worst stereotype geek? The one who thinks mac users are using toy computers because using a mac is too easy and straightforward and they don't regularly tweak their registry or have to sweep their systems for trojans? The one who thinks other windows users are all stupid and can't possibly know as much as them? That sort of guy?


    That's what Microsoft have to get past. The image that they're a company run by such guys making products for such guys that they just happen to let the rest of us use too. For the average user, the effect of years of frustration with their products when they were substandard because their monopoly meant they didn't have to make any real effort coupled with years of having to deal with arrogant idiots to get it to work better won't disappear overnight. If you want to understand where MS went wrong, a quote from Bill Gates sums it up perfectly. When Steve Jobs first went back to Apple 15 or so years ago, Gates is quoted as saying "Why would he do that? He must know he can't possibly win." And now Apple are worth more than Microsoft because they didn't sit back and assume people would always just settle for "ok". WP7 is a lot better than OK, as is Windows 7, but they have a lot to do yet to prove they've learnt complacency is never a good business plan.
    09-08-2011 04:12 PM
  4. bear_lx's Avatar
    i am not going to argue with you but i completely disagree with everything you just said. ive only owned pc's and only problems ive had are them running slow because of lack of space. which is easily updated on a pc, buy more ram or a bigger hard drive. virus come from downloading crap or opening trojan mail. i mean c'mon it is common sense and thats what antiviruses are for. macs arent bullet proof. and they are completely over priced for what you get. are they nice? yes. are they smooth? yes. would i ever spend $2000 for a macbook pro?, **** no. not when i can build a screaming fast pc for half that. on that same note, would i spend 300 on a cheap dell laptop? **** no... as far as being condescended by windows techs, dont you think you are sterotyping a bit? if they talked down to you its not because all windows techs are that way... its because they were dousche bags, and could have easily worked for apple and had the same attitude. keep it real pronk
    09-08-2011 04:54 PM
  5. bear_lx's Avatar
    and substandard products for years? geez man... there have always been a slew of pc's to choose from both high end and low end... and if you buy low end what do you expect? windows xp was only the best OS around for how many years? nothing needed changed!

    unbelievable
    09-08-2011 04:55 PM
  6. ikkf's Avatar
    i am not going to argue with you but i completely disagree with everything you just said. ive only owned pc's and only problems ive had are them running slow because of lack of space. which is easily updated on a pc, buy more ram or a bigger hard drive. virus come from downloading crap or opening trojan mail. i mean c'mon it is common sense and thats what antiviruses are for. macs arent bullet proof. and they are completely over priced for what you get. are they nice? yes. are they smooth? yes. would i ever spend $2000 for a macbook pro?, **** no. not when i can build a screaming fast pc for half that. on that same note, would i spend 300 on a cheap dell laptop? **** no... as far as being condescended by windows techs, dont you think you are sterotyping a bit? if they talked down to you its not because all windows techs are that way... its because they were dousche bags, and could have easily worked for apple and had the same attitude. keep it real pronk
    I also think the notion that graphic design applications run better on the Mac is outdated now. A decently spec'd PC will give a designer plenty enough horsepower to do their work. OS X is an elegant system but the premium they charge is just too high for most people.
    09-08-2011 05:36 PM
  7. Exomondo's Avatar
    google probably wouldnt allow it. Or find a way to constantly break it.
    I agree, the most annoying thing is that is clear anti-competitive behavior but unless youtube can be deemed a monopoly on online video nothing will be done about it. And i don't see that happening.
    09-08-2011 05:41 PM
  8. willied's Avatar
    I also think the notion that graphic design applications run better on the Mac is outdated now. A decently spec'd PC will give a designer plenty enough horsepower to do their work. OS X is an elegant system but the premium they charge is just too high for most people.
    It's true. People mainly buy them for the image. They are built nicely, though. I hate using OS X, though.
    09-08-2011 06:51 PM
  9. Pronk's Avatar
    To be honest I couldn't care less whether you argue with me or not because it changes nothing. The products I was talking about weren't PCs - it was Windows (2000, ME, XP and Vista) and Office. These are the products where MS got complacent and put out bloated releases. And people get stuck using them in offices and schools where they have absolutely no choice about hardware and upping specs beyond base levels.

    That's where MS gets its bad rep from - it made mediocre software that people had to run on cheap boxes. This isn't opinion - it did happen and still does. Sure, home PCs could be specced brilliantly but that's a different ballgame. And we're talking image - and when people think of MS, a lot of people are going to think of their office/school experience.

    As I said, things are much better now, but those decades (and it is decades) of poor experience for a large body of users isn't going to be forgotten overnight.

    And seriously - people don't just buy Macs for the image. That may be what anti-Apple fanboys like to think, but everyone I know who's a Mac owner has bought one because it's simple, reliable, well made and lasts.
    09-08-2011 07:16 PM
  10. Exomondo's Avatar
    I also think the notion that graphic design applications run better on the Mac is outdated now. A decently spec'd PC will give a designer plenty enough horsepower to do their work. OS X is an elegant system but the premium they charge is just too high for most people.
    I dunno about that, if you're looking for an ultrabook what else can you get in the price range of a macbook air for the same specs? The only thing i could find that was available was the samsung series 9 which clocked in at the same price.

    I'm not a fan of OSX - in fact i run Windows on my air and use an MS Arc touch mouse - but the machine is built very well and even if something does go wrong - if the iphone is anything to go by - the warranty service should be good if i ever need it.

    And we're talking image - and when people think of MS, a lot of people are going to think of their office/school experience.
    But for consumer devices most people would think of the xbox, which is why i think using 'Windows' in WP7 was a bad move. They have a good rep in consumer devices, the xbox is hugely popular, and that's what they should have capitalized on instead of tying it to Windows.

    My Windows XP laptop crashed and wiped ALL my photos from a fantastic once in a lifetime holiday I'd had - after years of owning PCs that were obsolete in months and/or got virus infested, this was the last straw and desktop-wise I've been a Mac user ever since.
    Ouch, it sucks for something like that to happen and i suppose the last thing you want to hear is 'you should have had a backup'. I've had a hard drive failure before but thankfully all my data was backed up and macs are hardly immune to such things anyway. What exactly do you mean by it 'crashed'? I can't really think of a way Windows can fail and take all of your data with it that a Mac can't, people often attribute any failing of their PC to Windows regardless of the actual culprit.

    Personally I've had the same desktop PC for 5 years and I don't see any reason to replace it any time soon, started with XP then went to Vista and now 7. What is it you mean by 'obsolete'?
    Last edited by exomondo; 09-08-2011 at 08:17 PM.
    09-08-2011 07:55 PM
  11. bear_lx's Avatar
    so if were talking software, you really wanna say XP was mediocre? lol.... ok. windows 7 is the only thing that comes close to comparing to that OS
    09-08-2011 08:35 PM
  12. ikkf's Avatar
    Oh yeah don't get me wrong. If I were to get my mom a computer, and my mom is totally computer-illiterate, I'd get her a Mac. It has some cool features that will blow anyone away and it is very easy to use. But the performance gap that used to exist between Mac and Windows is shrinking with every year, due to the improved hardware.

    And let's be honest: all the best games run only on Windows and not Mac.
    09-08-2011 08:43 PM
  13. theefman's Avatar
    If you've had a problem with Windows OS's, I'd point the finger squarely at the configuration and 3rd party software installed. I still have a Win 2000 pc running in my Mum's house in London with Comodo firewall, logmein, IE6, and a few other problems and she has no problems. Likewise my old XP desktop was trouble free 99% of the time and I never experienced data loss. I had a Vista laptop, no problems. Now all my pc's are Win7, including 2 laptops, 1 desktop and 1 htpc (which are notorious for problems) with Arcsoft TMT5, AnyDVD HD, Imon software for my case remote. Everything just works. I also have a Windows Home Server v1 that works perfectly apart from a slowdown when running backups.

    In comparison though my work XP machine takes minutes to boot up sometimes, IE7 is a pain and sometimes wont render some sites properly, it runs slow and if not for the last reimage would be practically useless.

    Too many times Windows gets a bad rap, and back in the days of NT and Office 97 I would agree but from Windows 2000 onwards Microsoft has hit it on the mark just about every time. Have no problems whatsoever having Windows as my desktop OS and look forward to the W8/WP/Xbox merger coming soon.
    09-08-2011 10:24 PM
  14. Pronk's Avatar
    Again, just to point out here we're not just talking about me - I replied to give my personal experience of why I felt MS had a bad rep other than Vista in reply to a specific post, but the fact they DO have a bad rep is what this thread is all about. Some of it may be harsh, but some of it is deserved too. The drawback of their near monopoly in the late 90s and early 2000s is that almost everyone in an office or school or uni had to use a windows PC or nothing, and what they had to use wasn't always the best.

    That's the thing about the Apple "Mac & PC" ads. They worked so well because for many, many people the PC character was exactly their historical experience with using Windows.
    09-08-2011 11:40 PM
  15. willied's Avatar
    I wouldn't say Microsoft has a bad rep, it's just that it doesn't have Apple's rep when it comes to phones. As in no one knows about it.
    09-09-2011 07:25 AM
  16. Big Supes's Avatar
    Well, here's my personal experience. I'm admittedly a convert to WP7 now, but I wouldn't touch Microsoft stuff for years for three reasons:

    1. My Windows XP laptop crashed and wiped ALL my photos from a fantastic once in a lifetime holiday I'd had - after years of owning PCs that were obsolete in months and/or got virus infested, this was the last straw and desktop-wise I've been a Mac user ever since.
    That's very unfortunate and quite disturbing. I must say, I've never heard of XP, not just crashing, but it deciding to wipe hard disks.

    2. At work, I used to have to use XP on a crummy Dell every single day. I work in publishing, and have done for 15 years now, and I've probably lost months of time in total to MS Word random lockups and blue screens of death. And my experience is in no way unique.
    Sounds like the crummy dell was working on overload. Honestly, I've never had any issues with Microsoft Office on a capable PC.

    3. I also had to deal with our IT department a lot. All Windows guys. All of them treated everyone with contempt and as if we were morons - again, not a unique situation. I've similarly been treated like crap by staff in PC World who assume the customer is always an ***** to be talked down to.
    I can see a pattern, and I wouldn't blame Microsoft for that. It just seems like a stereotype. A bit like how the mechanic makes that sucking/whistling noise when you ask him how much it's going to cost to mend your car.

    You know the worst stereotype geek? The one who thinks mac users are using toy computers because using a mac is too easy and straightforward and they don't regularly tweak their registry or have to sweep their systems for trojans? The one who thinks other windows users are all stupid and can't possibly know as much as them? That sort of guy?
    I think they exist in many different shapes and forms. In my experience, I can't stand the wannable-groovey Mac users who claim their machines are infallible. Again, this is just a generalisation. I have friends with Macs and they bought them because they "liked the look".

    That's what Microsoft have to get past. The image that they're a company run by such guys making products for such guys that they just happen to let the rest of us use too. For the average user, the effect of years of frustration with their products when they were substandard because their monopoly meant they didn't have to make any real effort coupled with years of having to deal with arrogant idiots to get it to work better won't disappear overnight. If you want to understand where MS went wrong, a quote from Bill Gates sums it up perfectly. When Steve Jobs first went back to Apple 15 or so years ago, Gates is quoted as saying "Why would he do that? He must know he can't possibly win." And now Apple are worth more than Microsoft because they didn't sit back and assume people would always just settle for "ok". WP7 is a lot better than OK, as is Windows 7, but they have a lot to do yet to prove they've learnt complacency is never a good business plan.
    While these gripes seem refreshing different to ones shared before by others, I don't really see what Microsoft can do regarding the stereotypical arrogance that comes with anything technical. When it comes to "arrogance", again, I think Apple. I think how "if I don't have an Apple" - I basically don't have a life.

    The only time MS have pissed me off was with Vista, and now that's been rectified. That being said, sure, I was pissed, but I didn't want the big chief's head on a stick or act like Bill Gates ran over my cat.
    bear_lx, Exomondo and jaded skies like this.
    09-09-2011 07:40 AM
  17. bear_lx's Avatar
    Again, just to point out here we're not just talking about me - I replied to give my personal experience of why I felt MS had a bad rep other than Vista in reply to a specific post, but the fact they DO have a bad rep is what this thread is all about. Some of it may be harsh, but some of it is deserved too. The drawback of their near monopoly in the late 90s and early 2000s is that almost everyone in an office or school or uni had to use a windows PC or nothing, and what they had to use wasn't always the best.

    That's the thing about the Apple "Mac & PC" ads. They worked so well because for many, many people the PC character was exactly their historical experience with using Windows.
    sounds to me like ur trying to compare what we have today to what MS had back in the early 90's? i mean c'mon, technology wasnt nearly what it is today... what was better than win 2000 at that current time? nothing! of course things were mediocre , so were all cell phones and anything electronic! tv's were still tubes, we still listened to mediocre sound on cassettes! again keep it real. MS has always been a leader in its industry. people that give them a bad rep usually have no reason to other than they dont like them.


    where was apple back in the 90's ??? do you remember those old things ? who used them over windows? not me...
    09-09-2011 08:09 AM
  18. selfcreation's Avatar
    and Apple almost bankrupt in the late 90`s so PC was the best :) lol
    bear_lx likes this.
    09-09-2011 08:19 AM
  19. bear_lx's Avatar
    whoa, almost forgot who you were! where you been stranger! lol, ditto that
    09-09-2011 08:31 AM
  20. selfcreation's Avatar
    Forums been kinda slow in the last couple weeks .. i been here reading , just not replying to anything lol

    waiting for MANGO to come out to attrack more Newbys to ask mroe questings lol...
    jaded skies likes this.
    09-09-2011 08:39 AM
  21. Pronk's Avatar
    sounds to me like ur trying to compare what we have today to what MS had back in the early 90's? i mean c'mon, technology wasnt nearly what it is today... what was better than win 2000 at that current time? nothing! of course things were mediocre , so were all cell phones and anything electronic! tv's were still tubes, we still listened to mediocre sound on cassettes! again keep it real. MS has always been a leader in its industry. people that give them a bad rep usually have no reason to other than they dont like them.


    where was apple back in the 90's ??? do you remember those old things ? who used them over windows? not me...
    Well yeah, that's precisely what I'm doing because that's where bad reputations come from - bad past experiences. If everyone started afresh tomorrow on a level playing field with no baggage, I'd say phones-wise, Apple and WP7 would be no. 1 and Android second because it's more fiddly.

    But it's because of history that MS has a hurdle, so you can't really ignore the past. And it's precisely because Apple and Google don't have that history with most people that they don't have the same issues. No one looking for a smartphone today is going to have ever had a blue screen of death incident in the past because of using Google, or had an xbox RROD because Apple rushed a product to market. That's the sort of baggage I'm talking about that can sway a purchasing decision - and that's before salespeople pushing Android or iOS.

    And in case I'm giving the wrong impression here, I really do hope MS get past it as their products and the way they approach things have improved immensely. WP7 deserves greater exposure. But at the same time it's people much like me who are the ones who need convincing - people who've had a crappy ride in the past. I ended up using WP7 almost by accident, but now wouldn't swap it, and I'm the only guy in my group of friends who uses it (most are on Android). I certainly wouldn't have been lured to WP7 by MS's advertising so far, so I think they really need to get evangelists out there letting people try it and letting the OS speak for itself. Adverts (good or bad) only go so far - what they need is to build really solid grassroots support.
    09-09-2011 08:58 AM
  22. jasqid's Avatar
    You know... after reading all this and seeing comments about "when mango comes out it will be better..."... the problem isnt with the phone or advertizing.

    There is a big problem with the retail stores. Verizon and ATT are without a doubt doing everything they can to steer people away from WP.

    I've seen it first hand and just try to get a trophy in averison store here. I've told my friends to go online a purchase.
    09-11-2011 10:39 PM
  23. Livett's Avatar
    (first post!)

    I currently work for a market research company in the UK and are starting an intensive Windows Phone 7 study for Microsoft across all the top carriers and stores in the UK, US, FR and DE.

    I would say expect to start seeing more and more Microsoft marketing being pushed everywhere (particularly the store sales people) at the end of this year going in to 2012.

    I don't know if this is around already but UK staff start "Mango Training" middle to end September.
    smartpatrol and jfa1 like this.
    09-12-2011 07:41 AM
  24. selfcreation's Avatar
    (first post!)

    I currently work for a market research company in the UK and are starting an intensive Windows Phone 7 study for Microsoft across all the top carriers and stores in the UK, US, FR and DE.

    I would say expect to start seeing more and more Microsoft marketing being pushed everywhere (particularly the store sales people) at the end of this year going in to 2012.

    I don't know if this is around already but UK staff start "Mango Training" middle to end September.


    yyeah MS said they would INVEST ALOTE more cash into Marketing for MANGO ... and they also talked about this in a article how MS was pushing HTC or getting together with THC to add more marketing for the phones...

    what sad is the HTC commercial ( brilliantly quite * YOU AND YOU AND YOU!! im sure you know what im talking about ... well they havent added WP in that yet!!! it still mostly 100% android.


    i think we will start seeing mroe probly Mid october mid November to do a Q4 HOLIDAY Campain
    09-12-2011 08:26 AM
  25. jkercado's Avatar
    Microsoft needs to hire a real marketing company and invest some serious money in a campaign that's actually good. They also should put WP7 units in the hands of famous people. Let the nerdblogs catch, I dunno, whoever is a relevant celebrity nowadays, tinkering with their WP7 unit.

    Show people how they work. Stage demonstrations in stores. My personal experience is that people don't know zilch about WP7, but once they try it, they love it. My 14 year-old son has an iPhone 3G, my wife a Sony Xperia X10 (Android). Both fell in love with WP7 on my Focus and want to swap.

    That's what turned me in to WP7 (have five coworkers with WP7 units!). I think that's the best way to convince people.
    09-14-2011 10:33 AM
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