09-20-2011 09:21 PM
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  1. Pronk's Avatar
    here we go again pronk... lol. first of all MS has never specified a date, but saying it will be this fall? guess what, its not fall yet... so if we get it here soon, it will be early. secondly ios has one phone to update and had one carrier ... but they control their updates because it doesnt get released to manufactures... that has pros and cons. my thoughts are, since you are always referencing to iphones and ios, just go buy one... im sure you would be happier. then it will match you mac and your ipad if you have one... it would complete that boring eco system. personally, i am going to continue to wait for mango because even w/o it, my phone still blows an iphone out of the water.

    removable battery, zune pass, xbox live , FB & tiwtter integration, choice of phone, expandable memory, MS office, skydrive, list goes on....
    Right. So you think this situation:
    1. The Mango update is available in Taiwan RIGHT NOW (is it Autumn there? Do seasons start early in Taiwan only?)
    2. The most high-spec, advanced WP7 handset running Mango in the world is available to buy in Japan today
    3. For the rest of the world - you know, the people who have bought into and are supporting the fledgling WP7 ecosystem RIGHT NOW - we can't even get a solid date for FINISHED software to be released. In fact, we can't even get a month out of MS. This despite Mango apps flooding the marketplace, mango promo videos being released, mango teases coming almost daily, many carriers already reporting being finished. All that and the best we get as existing customers is a season.

    You honestly have NO disappointment with that? No sense that this, as a roll out, could be handled better?

    And yes, I do reference iOS a lot, because I came from an iPhone 4 and I own an iPad. And do you know why I do? Because Apple are the people to beat, and you don't beat a product in the market by not doing things as well as the no. 1. I have no particular allegiance to any platform - I buy what works best for me and what is well designed, well supported and elegant. WP7 is well designed and elegant. But it doesn't mean MS get a free ride when the support falls short.

    As for Android roll outs also being bitty - so? Does that make it OK for MS to do things poorly as well? This is a company that allegedly wants to be no. 1 in smartphones. If that's genuine, and you want to see the WP7 user base grow (and I assume you do) then if anything you should be more harsh on them than I am when they don't do nearly as well as they should do, as has happened with this fiasco. As an obvious fan, you've got a lot more to lose if they disappoint.

    And just a final point - how many new users do you think will stick with the system if you basically tell them to get lost just because they're not as forgiving of MS as you are?
    Last edited by Pronk; 09-16-2011 at 03:31 AM.
    09-16-2011 01:33 AM
  2. wizake's Avatar
    Sorry guys.. but I was very dissapointed because of "No mango day" yesterday, so I decided to install the leaked ROMs available at xda. Since I had an unbranded HD7 (Europe) it worked. Not without problems, but thats another story :)

    I am the proud owner of OS version 7.10.7720.68
    :)
    09-16-2011 05:49 AM
  3. Sparxy19's Avatar
    Th press release for ATT said that they would be AMONG the first it did not say they be THE firs and it's coming this fall which I believe Saturday or 9 days at the least. If yo want it now move to Taiwan they get it on the 16th but they have to take it to a store to get it installed and it takes20 minutes.


    It would nice if everybody would bepatient but most people given the way the postings are on all windows phone sites are a petulant impatient glass half empty lot!
    I wasn't being impatient i was just stating what i think may be happening.
    I was never confident about today and i wouldn't be surprised if Mango was released on the first day of fall

    P.S The glass is half full ;)
    09-16-2011 07:14 AM
  4. Sparxy19's Avatar
    1. The Mango update is available in Taiwan RIGHT NOW (is it Autumn there? Do seasons start early in Taiwan only?)
    I think in alot of places (most places??) seasons start and end at the start and end of months, three months is a season (or at least that is how it is in australia). Before last week i thaught everywhere in the world was like that, so i figured it was already fall. oops.
    Rockstar Beaver likes this.
    09-16-2011 07:22 AM
  5. Pronk's Avatar
    Actually, I was just joking a bit. I suspect the seasons start and end there the same as everywhere else. The point being, though, Microsoft can't say "we told you mango will be released in Autumn" and then point to calendars showing when Autumn starts as if that's some sort of explanation for the lack of any other information when they've already released mango elsewhere. Were they hoping we wouldn't notice? Mango is out via official channels in some places. So "we're not launching yet" is bunkum. It has launched, it's underway, it's started. Finished ROMs leaked weeks ago. At this stage, keeping everyone else hanging on for information and pretending it isn't done and dusted is silly. They don't have to flip the switch on demand, but the wall of silence tactic is just bizarre.

    And if it's the 23rd, say "It's the 23rd". DON'T have some weasely "look at this calendar" thing! That says one of two things:
    1. we still don't know (which is bad)
    2. we do know, but aren't telling you for the sake of not telling you (which is worse)
    09-16-2011 08:00 AM
  6. bear_lx's Avatar
    or it means that they have a plan... and hopefully a big one! if they were to release the date, it could ruin the element of surprise with a big marketing campaign they intend to roll out... by knowing, it loses some luster. or as stated it is as bad as the nodo update, completely unorganized, too many chiefs and not enough indians... we shall see

    btw, final point - if MS doesnt get it right with win8 and the apollo update... ill be switching to ios ( secretly laughing) however i have faith, and fromwhat ive seen, this will be the best thing since sliced bread


    p.s. - before i would ever switch to ios, MS would have to f*ck up pretty bad, and i would have to save lots of money
    09-16-2011 08:10 AM
  7. HeyCori's Avatar
    Technically speaking Mango is released... to carriers. Now it's up to them to finish their testing and release the update. I don't think people understand how hard it would be for Microsoft to give a firm release date when every carrier has to finish testing for every phone.

    The only way for MS to set a release date is if they allowed every carrier to finish internal testing first. However, that only screws over consumers. Verizon/Sprint only has one phone to test, AT&T has several. Better to allow Verizon/Sprint to release Mango because that puts pressure on AT&T to finish their testing. However, if Verizon is given the option to sit on their hands while they wait for AT&T then that is exactly what they would do.

    A lot of people seem to believe that since Apple gives a release date for their 1.5 phones that must mean that every manufacturer does the same thing (and last I checked, iOS5 is still scheduled for "fall"). And 1.5 phones is basically their entire lineup.

    Lets look at the others. Google, RIM, Palm, Samsung (Bada) may give a release date for one phone and leave you guessing about the rest. Microsoft is trying to update their entire lineup of phones. That's a bit trickier then say updating just the Samsung Focus and not giving a damn about the Trophy.

    By all accounts, Mango is going much smoother than NoDo. NoDo had a lack of communication. This time you're just not listening.
    09-16-2011 08:16 AM
  8. Curtieson's Avatar
    My husband has gotten so many updates since he got his HTC HD7 a couple weeks ago and another one today but we have no idea if its Mango cause we don't have a computer and he hasent downloaded any of them!
    It is the same update, it is just very insistent that you need to update it and doesn't understand why you are waiting!!! That notification won't stop until you do (or possibly turn off the "check for update" feature)

    updating just the Samsung Focus and not giving a damn about the Trophy.
    I'd be cool with that...
    09-16-2011 10:22 AM
  9. Pronk's Avatar
    Technically speaking Mango is released... to carriers. Now it's up to them to finish their testing and release the update. I don't think people understand how hard it would be for Microsoft to give a firm release date when every carrier has to finish testing for every phone.
    That's carriers. There's nothing whatsoever preventing them releasing it on a fixed date for unbranded phones and letting carriers know well in advance of when that date is and ensuring they have the software in plenty of time. Then the onus is on the carriers to get their act together and be ready (as many have already, because they did get the software in plenty of time) - and if they fail, then their customers can be irate with them and deservedly so, not Microsoft. And besides, if there's no firm release date, what then? The carriers just get to release it whenever they fancy with no-one really knowing when things might happen? And I'll point out AGAIN that the launch has already happened in some territories, and it's this bits and pieces approach, coupled with silly messages that say "hey, look at this calendar that says when autumn starts!" I find a bit shoddy.

    In a nutshell: say something concrete, or don't say anything at all. And definitely DON'T repeatedly say "ooh, it's coming soon!", launch a load of mango apps into the marketplace, publicly encourage devs to update their apps in preparation, let rumours circulate for weeks about a release date unchecked, let finished ROMs leak well in advance of that date and still say nothing, release a load of promo videos about Tango just beforehand, let carriers tell the public they're finished on or before the rumoured date, tell devs to revert to NoDo in preparation to upgrade just before the rumoured date, and THEN on the day of rumoured release wait until the evening to tell people they jumped to conclusions and make out it's all their fault for doing so.

    At this point though, I'm giving up. It seems most people want to cut MS a fairly big break and make excuses for them so I'm just arguing for the sake of it. I hope mango is worth it, and I'm sure it will be - whenever it does turn up. Here's hoping it's before Christmas, eh? :)
    09-16-2011 10:27 AM
  10. HeyCori's Avatar
    In a nutshell: say something concrete, or don't say anything at all.
    They did. They said it's coming in the fall. It's the same line repeated by nearly every manufacturer. If that's not the answer you want then switch to another OS and HOPE it receives an update when all the other phones do.
    09-16-2011 10:41 AM
  11. Reflexx's Avatar
    MS and Carriers aren't the only ones involved.

    There are the OEMs. And MS can't release the update in this region until the OEMs in this region say that they're ready.

    MS isn't going to announce a firm date because they don't know if something wrong could come up during OEM testing.

    Remember, MS did that with NoDo and it turned into a nightmare when many Samsung devices had trouble updating. And at the time, on the forums people were screaming bloody murder.

    MS learned from that.
    09-16-2011 10:56 AM
  12. bear_lx's Avatar
    exactly why i bought an htc
    09-16-2011 11:17 AM
  13. selfcreation's Avatar
    Im prety SURE OEMs get the update for testing BEFORE RTM`s do.....

    carrier = last phase..

    im not expecting it to have problems liek NODO..... once AT&T says its ready all phones ( lg , HTC or Samsung ) will get it at same time.

    Samsung had a small probloem with the HARDWARE for NODO ..... witch they fix.. i see no reason why it should happen again..
    09-16-2011 11:27 AM
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
    There's no reason it should happen again.

    But there was no reason it should have happened in the first place.

    But that's what testing is for. To see if there are things happening that shouldn't be happening.
    09-16-2011 11:50 AM
  15. Pronk's Avatar
    They did. They said it's coming in the fall. It's the same line repeated by nearly every manufacturer. If that's not the answer you want then switch to another OS and HOPE it receives an update when all the other phones do.
    *IF* they'd just said "it's coming in the fall" and then nothing else, I'd agree. However, as you may have noticed from the things I listed above, they then said a lot more subsequently that suggested certain things very heavily without once saying "no, this isn't the case". And of course they also went ahead and released the software in some territories (and seriously, how many times does that need saying - THEY RELEASED IT ALREADY SOMEWHERE). So anything they say about when it'll arrive is already nonsense because for some people it has arrived already, entirely legitimately. Do you know many software rollouts that have kicked off with new hardware with the software on in one country, then walk-in software updates in another country, both ahead of schedule, then no information at all for anyone else - not even an update narrowing it down to at least a calendar month given some people *did* get it early?

    Also, again - is "if you don't agree this rollout was handled flawlessly, why don't you buy another phone?" much of an argument? MS is a big boy - I'm sure it can take criticism. In fact, I've been to a WP7 focus group run by MS where they specifically asked for criticism and feedback so they could try and improve WP7.

    So, you know what? You can settle for whatever a company bothers to do for you. If you're happy doing that, that's fine. Or you can say hey, I like the product a lot, but this could have been better. There could have been an end put to rumours early on to prevent expectations being built up then dashed. There could have been a proper global roll out rather than one plan here, another there. There could have been less nudge nudge wink wink teasing that turned out to be just that - teasing. And hopefully, if someone asks opinions and takes stuff like this on board, things will be better in future. We pay for this stuff, guys - we don't owe companies favours!
    09-16-2011 11:51 AM
  16. Reflexx's Avatar
    *IF* they'd just said "it's coming in the fall" and then nothing else, I'd agree. However, as you may have noticed from the things I listed above, they then said a lot more subsequently that suggested certain things very heavily without once saying "no, this isn't the case". And of course they also went ahead and released the software in some territories (and seriously, how many times does that need saying - THEY RELEASED IT ALREADY SOMEWHERE). So anything they say about when it'll arrive is already nonsense because for some people it has arrived already, entirely legitimately. Do you know many software rollouts that have kicked off with new hardware with the software on in one country, then walk-in software updates in another country, both ahead of schedule, then no information at all for anyone else - not even an update narrowing it down to at least a calendar month given some people *did* get it early?
    1. It's not really MS's responsibility to keep track of every rumor out there and try to debunk them. Commenting on them just helps rumor mongers to make even more assumptions, and thus, create more rumors. People really do ready way too much into everything.

    2. The territories where Mango has launched are working with different hardware. OEMs have likely tested for these territories already. It's not nonsense. It's logistics.

    Also, again - is "if you don't agree this rollout was handled flawlessly, why don't you buy another phone?" much of an argument? MS is a big boy - I'm sure it can take criticism. In fact, I've been to a WP7 focus group run by MS where they specifically asked for criticism and feedback so they could try and improve WP7.
    I think you're doing more than just saying the rollout isn't flawless. No rollout is flawless.

    Instead, you're disappointed by believing rumors and venting about it. But in the venting, you're trying to point fingers and blame someone for how you're feeling.

    So, you know what? You can settle for whatever a company bothers to do for you. If you're happy doing that, that's fine. Or you can say hey, I like the product a lot, but this could have been better. There could have been an end put to rumours early on to prevent expectations being built up then dashed. There could have been a proper global roll out rather than one plan here, another there. There could have been less nudge nudge wink wink teasing that turned out to be just that - teasing. And hopefully, if someone asks opinions and takes stuff like this on board, things will be better in future. We pay for this stuff, guys - we don't owe companies favours!
    I think you'll look back at this in a few months and feel slightly embarrassed about seeing things that just weren't there.

    Speculation makes for great and interesting forum talk. It's also great for driving in blog traffic. But everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

    MS messed up the NoDo rollout. And in that, they deserved a lot of criticism and blame. But so far with Mango, they have been fine.
    09-16-2011 12:26 PM
  17. Pronk's Avatar
    You know what? Forget it. Microsoft handled this perfectly.

    Happy?
    1jaxstate1 likes this.
    09-16-2011 12:48 PM
  18. thed's Avatar
    Verizon/Sprint only has one phone to test, AT&T has several. Better to allow Verizon/Sprint to release Mango because that puts pressure on AT&T to finish their testing. However, if Verizon is given the option to sit on their hands while they wait for AT&T then that is exactly what they would do.
    I wouldn't put much faith in Verizon, they will sit on their hands no matter what. Despite only having one phone to test, we never even got the security update (7392). At least AT&T released it for some of their phones. I'm not sure what MS can do about it if the carrier just doesn't care.
    09-16-2011 12:52 PM
  19. Reflexx's Avatar
    You know what? Forget it. Microsoft handled this perfectly.

    Happy?
    Haha.

    Nothing is perfect.

    Things don't have to be one extreme or another.
    09-16-2011 01:05 PM
  20. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    What's really going to be nice is when AT&T start selling those new Mango phones before they've released the Mango update to current phones. That's when the fan and the **** will meet. Can't wait.
    09-16-2011 01:27 PM
  21. jalb's Avatar
    I have 100% faith in AT&T to deliver the Mango update on time.














    In March of 2012.
    HeyCori likes this.
    09-16-2011 01:36 PM
  22. thed's Avatar
    What's really going to be nice is when AT&T start selling those new Mango phones before they've released the Mango update to current phones. That's when the fan and the **** will meet. Can't wait.
    At least you'll have new phones. The grass is always greener...;)
    09-16-2011 02:13 PM
  23. Camaro3's Avatar
    Hahahahaha
    09-16-2011 02:17 PM
  24. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    I've had Mango for a while, I'm a bit tired of it. But playing with new hardware is going to be fun. I *heart* new gadgets.
    At least you'll have new phones. The grass is always greener...;)
    If Mango isn't out by the time new hardware is released, I'd be happy to sell my Mango Beta 2 Focus for a low price of $500.00 USD. :)
    09-16-2011 02:17 PM
  25. selfcreation's Avatar
    selling my focus at 499$!!!! 1 $ cheaper get it while its HOT!!
    09-16-2011 02:42 PM
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