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04-15-2012 10:05 PM
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  1. Big Supes's Avatar
    So last night, I noticed IE and Bing were timing out on WiFi....

    I switched to 3G and - wallah - it was perfect. Switched back to Wifi and then it started to show signs of life, but was running extremely slow. As a third test, I disabled 3G and kept it on Wifi. This resulted in ZERO data connection - nothing worked.

    As a conclusion and in light of me reaching my data allowance (with little downloading), it seems my HD7 is attempting to use the Wifi, then opting to use the 3G instead. But, why is this? It's more than likely the cause of the 'Lazy Tiles', as well.

    EDIT: I'm running 8107.
    03-26-2012 08:49 AM
  2. canesfan625's Avatar
    Everything is microsofts fault. Carriers having crappy coverage is microsofts fault too. Some of these connection issues seem to be caused by routers too. Don't get me started on belkin routers.
    03-26-2012 09:02 AM
  3. Big Supes's Avatar
    At this stage, I'm not pointing fingers, but my previous iPhone and iPod had zero issues, as well as my girlfriends Android is running just fine on my home network....
    03-26-2012 10:31 AM
  4. canesfan625's Avatar
    This is all moot. This is being addressed in Apollo. WiFi wiill preferential treatment
    03-26-2012 07:21 PM
  5. Big Supes's Avatar
    ^^ I do not believe this is the correct attitude the Windows Phone team should have, if they're serious about competing with Apple and Google. Windows Phone needs to be squeaky clean.

    This problem has been known for a long time and should have been put right by now... just because they haven't bothered to address it, doesn't mean: "it's ok because they'll sort it 6/7 months when it's convenient".

    When Apollo is released, any bugs that are revealed need to be address, ASAP.
    03-27-2012 11:15 AM
  6. Speebs's Avatar
    ^^ I do not believe this is the correct attitude the Windows Phone team should have, if they're serious about competing with Apple and Google. Windows Phone needs to be squeaky clean.

    This problem has been known for a long time and should have been put right by now... just because they haven't bothered to address it, doesn't mean: "it's ok because they'll sort it 6/7 months when it's convenient".

    When Apollo is released, any bugs that are revealed need to be address, ASAP.
    agree with this. This is a huge oversight/extremely poor design on the part of MS.
    03-27-2012 11:48 AM
  7. HeyCori's Avatar
    ^^ I do not believe this is the correct attitude the Windows Phone team should have, if they're serious about competing with Apple and Google. Windows Phone needs to be squeaky clean.

    This problem has been known for a long time and should have been put right by now... just because they haven't bothered to address it, doesn't mean: "it's ok because they'll sort it 6/7 months when it's convenient".

    When Apollo is released, any bugs that are revealed need to be address, ASAP.
    Though, to be fair, Google has never worried about keeping Android squeaky clean, lol. For the longest time that OS was a train wreck wrapped in a supernova and it's just recently that Android stopped being a buggy lag-fest. (ok, maybe it still is a little bit)
    Last edited by HeyCori; 03-27-2012 at 12:05 PM.
    03-27-2012 11:56 AM
  8. canesfan625's Avatar
    ^^ I do not believe this is the correct attitude the Windows Phone team should have, if they're serious about competing with Apple and Google. Windows Phone needs to be squeaky clean.

    This problem has been known for a long time and should have been put right by now... just because they haven't bothered to address it, doesn't mean: "it's ok because they'll sort it 6/7 months when it's convenient".

    When Apollo is released, any bugs that are revealed need to be address, ASAP.
    Apple is not squeaky clean. They still seem to be ignoring their screen yellowing, have no problem telling you that you don't know how to hold a phone, there are people that are wondering if the iPhone 4 will be recalled because of bugs.

    Google? Yeah right, they are so clean they have security bugs that let hackers bug your calls.
    03-27-2012 12:03 PM
  9. N8ter's Avatar
    I am sure this is the by-design behavior as it helps save a lot of battery when the phone is on standby. The WiFi radio is actually turned off when the phone goes into standby or is disconnected from the connection, so no, it is not going to drain battery at the same rate. The only time the phone turns on the radio to poll for nearby connection is when you wake the phone from standby or when you explicitly access Settings->WiFi.

    I don't think your assertion that Microsoft is stupid because they didn't think this through is fair. :)

    Other than that, I do agree that the best solution for everyone was the option for the user to override the by-design behavior, providing it warns them about the faster battery drain.

    Possible workarounds right now are:
    - Keep phone plugged in for persistent WiFi
    - Get an app that overrides the by-design behavior (a lot of audio streaming apps like TuneIn Radio) does this.
    I'll keep this reply short. You simply do not understand the issue.

    1. We know WiFi turns off when the device sleeps. Guess what, Android devices do this by default, too. It's fairly expected behavior.

    2. The issue we have is that even when you wake the device up, the WiFi radio is turned on but the device refuses to use WiFi. Instead, it uses data. It means if you have someone on your plan with a 200MB data plan who thinks they use WiFi all the time they can go over their data plan simply because the phone is lying to them. It also means if you live in an area like me where T-Mobile's strong 3G signal still only gives you 130-200kbps (that's 16.25-25 KB/s for the record, my WiFi is ~20 mbps i.e. 2.5 MB/s) download speeds the phone is borderline unusable off of WiFi.

    A users should not have to : Swipe Left > Press a Letter > Press 'S' > Tap Settings > Tap WiFi > Toggle Off > Wait > Toggle On > Wait ....

    Just so they can use their WiFi connection when they wake their phone up.

    As far as keeping the phone plugged in, that's also impossible in many cases because there's another bug where screen sensitivity and device performance nose dives if you use the phone while it's plugged into a wall charger. That needs to be fixed as well.

    The router is not the issue, it happens all the time everywhere and is 100% reproduceable. There's no way the people at MS haven't been noticing this issue. This should have been easily caught by QA since what manufacturer doesn't test the WiFi sleep/wake behavior and Data to WiFi Hand-Off in their phones? It's happening with several phone models across manufacturers so it's almost certainly not a Hardware Issue.
    Last edited by N8ter; 03-27-2012 at 01:18 PM.
    03-27-2012 01:09 PM
  10. N8ter's Avatar
    Apple is not squeaky clean. They still seem to be ignoring their screen yellowing, have no problem telling you that you don't know how to hold a phone, there are people that are wondering if the iPhone 4 will be recalled because of bugs.

    Google? Yeah right, they are so clean they have security bugs that let hackers bug your calls.
    Samsung Android devices are FIPS certified and the government is goign to be deploying them in the field. More security minded enterprises are considering iOS and Android and almost none are considering WP7.

    Rhetoric are not facts.
    03-27-2012 01:11 PM
  11. canesfan625's Avatar
    Samsung Android devices are FIPS certified and the government is goign to be deploying them in the field. More security minded enterprises are considering iOS and Android and almost none are considering WP7.

    Rhetoric are not facts.
    Oh okay, Here is your Rhetoric.

    Android Security Bug Opens Devices To Outside Control: CrowdStrike Researchers

    http://www.esecurityplanet.com/mobil...roid-apps.html

    http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/android...os-02-03-2012/

    squeaky clean indeed. When does this modified version of Android getting pushed to the consumer market? Soon I hope
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 03-27-2012 at 02:43 PM.
    03-27-2012 02:35 PM
  12. Big Supes's Avatar
    Though, to be fair, Google has never worried about keeping Android squeaky clean, lol. For the longest time that OS was a train wreck wrapped in a supernova and it's just recently that Android stopped being a buggy lag-fest. (ok, maybe it still is a little bit)
    Unfortunately, this still has little impact on WP's marketshare.

    Apple is not squeaky clean. They still seem to be ignoring their screen yellowing, have no problem telling you that you don't know how to hold a phone, there are people that are wondering if the iPhone 4 will be recalled because of bugs.

    Google? Yeah right, they are so clean they have security bugs that let hackers bug your calls.
    You're missing the point.

    Windows Phone and MS can't afford have this - "I'll deal with it later" attitude. Whether iOS or Android are squeaky clean doesn't really matter with the amount of marketshare, apps, hardware, WOM, and momentum they both currently have. Unless they really drop the ball, people will still choose them over Windows Phone because they're sheep. Unfortunately, it's true - the average phone/smartphone user will go with the masses.... and, further more, the masses bring the apps and the apps bring the devs, which - in-turn, brings MORE apps and superior hardware.

    Windows Phone needs to stand out, and to sound the drum one more time - be as squeaky clean as humanly possible. The OS is 'stand out' and the hardware is slowly getting. Now MS need to deliver a stand out service and really drive home the "Putting People First" tag. Why should people move over from Android or iOS if Windows Phone has the same poor level of service as the popular competition, e.g, bugs not being fixed and updates not being delivered? Pointing the finger and saying "well, Apple and Google are not perfect" is lame and, again - completely the wrong attitude we need right now.
    03-27-2012 04:25 PM
  13. HeyCori's Avatar
    Unfortunately, this still has little impact on WP's marketshare.
    The point I was trying to make is that Android sales show that people will put up with an inferior product as long as the product has features they really want. Microsoft needs to work on mind share because it will go a lot further than squeaky clean. Which isn't to say that any company can release a completely broken product and still win the market, but consumers will put up with a lot as long as the experience as a whole is pleasing to them. Just look at what consumers went through with the RROD on the 360. It was a massive headache for nearly everyone, yet the 360 has been the sales leader for the past 14 months.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 03-27-2012 at 05:02 PM.
    03-27-2012 04:54 PM
  14. N8ter's Avatar
    Quote me where I said squeaky clean and ill retract my dismissal of this as more rhetoric.

    This platform isnt squeaky clean either. Far from it.

    Oh okay, Here is your Rhetoric.

    Android Security Bug Opens Devices To Outside Control: CrowdStrike Researchers

    http://www.esecurityplanet.com/mobil...roid-apps.html

    http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/android...os-02-03-2012/

    squeaky clean indeed. When does this modified version of Android getting pushed to the consumer market? Soon I hope

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

    EDIT: Every OEM version of Android is a modified version of Android, except the stock version on the Nexus devices and very few OEM machines (like the G2 and G2x had).

    For any business that is paranoid about security pretty much everything is worse than a Blackberry, and look at how far that has gotten them in the consumer market.

    Lastly, security through obscurity is not security. There's almost no incentive to develop malware and hacks for a platform that hardly anyone uses.
    Last edited by N8ter; 03-27-2012 at 05:03 PM.
    03-27-2012 04:56 PM
  15. N8ter's Avatar
    The point I was trying to make is that Android sales show that people will put up with an inferior product as long as the product has features they really want. Microsoft needs to work on mind share because it will go a lot further than squeaky clean. Which isn't to say that any company can release a completely broken product and still win the market, but consumers will put up with a lot as long as the experience as a whole is pleasing to them. Just look at what consumers went through with the RROD on the 360. It was a massive headache for nearly everyone, yet the 360 has been the sales leader for the past 14 months.
    You're off base.

    The RROD would have been a bigger deal...

    If MS wasn't ahead of Sony and Nintendo by almost a year with the XB360. A lot of users simply had no choice but to put up with it, unless they wanted to go back to playing their Playstation IIs and Original XBoxes.

    If you can get to market so much earlier than the competition, then you can afford those types of issues and you can still easily live through them. How do you think Apple got away with no MMS, Copy and Paste, no 3G on their Original iPhone?

    RROD hasn't been an issue for years now.

    Sony didn't help themselves, either. Their PS3 pricing left them with no chance to capitalize on Microsoft's RROD issues. Nintendo's Wii doesn't even appeal to hardcore gamers, so they really are only half competition to Microsoft (maybe less now with Kinect out and about).

    A lot of people simply go with Androd and iOS because they think it's better, not because it just has more features. What you think of them is your opinion, but the market clearly disagrees with you since even free on contract people are going to Android in droves even post-Mango release.
    03-27-2012 05:08 PM
  16. HeyCori's Avatar
    You're off base.

    The RROD would have been a bigger deal...

    If MS wasn't ahead of Sony and Nintendo by almost a year with the XB360. A lot of users simply had no choice but to put up with it, unless they wanted to go back to playing their Playstation IIs and Original XBoxes.
    Except a year lead didn't help the 360 establish a solid foothold. In fact, it routinely got outsold by the PS2. Sony's own blunders (pricing/getting hacked) helped the 360 way more. And despite the 360 having a strong 14 months, the PS3 isn't far behind. And lets not forget that both consoles were thoroughly trashed when the Wii was released. In fact, the Wii came out a year after the 360 and had absolutely no problem surpassing Microsoft. The 360 is a strong contender now but its for far more reasons than having a year lead.
    03-27-2012 05:36 PM
  17. canesfan625's Avatar
    Except a year lead didn't help the 360 establish a solid foothold. In fact, it routinely got outsold by the PS2. Sony's own blunders (pricing/getting hacked) helped the 360 way more. And despite the 360 having a strong 14 months, the PS3 isn't far behind. And lets not forget that both consoles were thoroughly trashed when the Wii was released. In fact, the Wii came out a year after the 360 and had absolutely no problem surpassing Microsoft. The 360 is a strong contender now but its for far more reasons than having a year lead.
    Bragging that the PS3 is closing in now is absolutely pointless. The PS3 is catching the 360 now that it is EOL? Good for it. What happens when the loop his the market?
    03-27-2012 05:46 PM
  18. HeyCori's Avatar
    Bragging that the PS3 is closing in now is absolutely pointless. The PS3 is catching the 360 now that it is EOL? Good for it. What happens when the loop his the market?
    Strong developer support will carry over to the next generation of consoles. That is what should of happened with the PS3, but Sony wasted the momentum they built with the PS2 by sacking the PS3 with an insane price tag and then getting hacked. When next gen finally rolls around, it's going to be harder for Microsoft to prove that they have a superior product if Sony has more/better games and similar features.
    03-27-2012 05:54 PM
  19. canesfan625's Avatar
    Strong developer support will carry over to the next generation of consoles. That is what should of happened with the PS3, but Sony wasted the momentum they built with the PS2 by sacking the PS3 with an insane price tag and then getting hacked. When next gen finally rolls around, it's going to be harder for Microsoft to prove that they have a superior product if Sony has more/better games and similar features.
    Don't forget Sony has lied about everything and so far has removed nearly everything that the PS3 campaigned on. It will be interesting to see what happens in terms of hardware but Sony also has to do something about the trash they call "PSN". Microsoft's ace will still be XBL because unlike Sony they offer services to their developers which are invaluable. Its more cohesive all around.
    03-27-2012 06:09 PM
  20. HeyCori's Avatar
    Don't forget Sony has lied about everything and so far has removed nearly everything that the PS3 campaigned on. It will be interesting to see what happens in terms of hardware but Sony also has to do something about the trash they call "PSN". Microsoft's ace will still be XBL because unlike Sony they offer services to their developers which are invaluable. Its more cohesive all around.
    Yeah, Sony removing Other OS ended baaaadly.
    03-27-2012 06:14 PM
  21. Big Supes's Avatar
    The point I was trying to make is that Android sales show that people will put up with an inferior product as long as the product has features they really want. Microsoft needs to work on mind share because it will go a lot further than squeaky clean. Which isn't to say that any company can release a completely broken product and still win the market, but consumers will put up with a lot as long as the experience as a whole is pleasing to them. Just look at what consumers went through with the RROD on the 360. It was a massive headache for nearly everyone, yet the 360 has been the sales leader for the past 14 months.
    I see where you're coming from, and both yourself and N8ter have raised some good points, but I can't help but think the circumstances are quite different...

    When Xbox first launched, it wasn't running PS1 hardware with little dev support. It barged it's way into the market with BIG titles, exclusives, and all the big game studios backing it. It would be like Windows Phone 7 (Nodo) being released with Windows 8 specs accompanied by serious dev support and all the mainstream apps already in the marketplace.

    People will put up with a lot of crap IF the product is up there with the best. Don't get me wrong, I think Windows Phone IS up there for it's OS, but there's no denying we're fighting for dev, OEM, and carrier support.

    Windows Phone will get there, but I still maintain that Microsoft need to 'win' people over with as many qualities as possible. In this day 'n age, people WILL up and leave Android/Apple over the smaller things - but only if there is a worthy contender ready to take them in.

    Put the people first and the rest will take care of itself.
    Last edited by Big Supes; 03-28-2012 at 02:16 PM.
    03-28-2012 02:04 PM
  22. HeyCori's Avatar
    Put the people first and the rest will take care of itself.
    Truth.
    03-28-2012 03:14 PM
  23. DanielCeleste's Avatar
    I heard running the Spotify app in the background (not even signed in) keeps the wifi enabled when locked & unplugged, but is there another app that does his as well? I live in Canada and cannot download that app.
    04-15-2012 05:18 PM
  24. mtmjr90's Avatar
    I heard running the Spotify app in the background (not even signed in) keeps the wifi enabled when locked & unplugged, but is there another app that does his as well? I live in Canada and cannot download that app.
    Have you tried just any internet radio-type app? I'd suggest some, but I have no idea which ones are available in Canada...

    Sent from my HTC Radar using Board Express
    04-15-2012 10:05 PM
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