10-09-2011 05:31 PM
55 123
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  1. theman60099's Avatar
    Ok, well without wishing to sound like a moaner, here's what I reckon:

    Genuinely good:
    Things are very smooth and very fast. Metro is a clean, unfussy interface and that's all the more impressive given it's running on hardware that, if not last-gen, certainly isn't cutting edge. It's quite rare for such a big update to make everything go faster on older hardware.
    Groups: this I don't use, but I can see being very handy if I did.
    Multi-source messaging: again, don't use FB chat or messenger, but if I did having it all in one place seems like a good idea (but I do wonder how many people really do use this and/or don't prefer to keep things separate?).
    Battery saver: every mobile OS should have this. It's a no brainer.

    Things that are not actually bad, but to be honest a bit overblown:
    Facebook/Twitter integration. I still have to check the FB app to be sure I see all updates/get direct messages because WP7 is treated as a third-party app. Ditto Twitter. So integration is nice, but not all it's cracked up to be.

    Live tiles: Brace yourself, I'm going to say the thing that must not be said - tiles are just big, plain icons. There, I said it. The live info you get isn't, in most cases, much more than you'd get with an icon and often a little bit less than a widget or a notification under any other system. And they still play up in Mango too.

    Xbox live integration: this basically doesn't *really* exist in any meaningful way - yet. I can see my avatar, and I can get gamerpoints and send messages. This really needs to improve, and I'm pleased that MS are now addressing this.

    Mango was a solid OS update, but a lot of the "features" of WP7 aren't really exclusives at all. It's still just an app launcher with some services integrated and hubs instead of folders. And believe it or not, none of that is a criticism. I just think MS need to focus on what WP7 is really really good at - running very smoothly and being simple and intuitive to use - rather than pretending it has things other than the Metro look that are unique. Because ultimately most people just want something that's nice to use and easy on the eye - they don't care whether the thing you press onscreen is called a tile or an icon or a widget or a jeremy*. WP7 can deliver that, and mango made it deliver it all that bit better. They've raised it to the point where WP7 now more or less competes n an even footing functionality-wise with iOS and Android, and now it's personal taste more than much else. That's a pretty good achievement in less than 2 years from scratch.

    *if anyone starts calling their onscreen devices jeremies, remember you saw it here first.
    u must not be using the right apps if u think the live tiles aren't any better than icons. and wp7 is more than an app launcher. im sorry but im going to have to disagree with u and downvote u.
    10-06-2011 07:37 AM
  2. duke1231's Avatar
    lol, not to go back, but how come I don't have an avatar jumping around on my screen? I am not being a smart*** I am a dork I guess, but how did you guys get the avatar, and yes I have updated to mango.
    10-06-2011 08:28 AM
  3. Airanp's Avatar
    u must not be using the right apps if u think the live tiles aren't any better than icons. and wp7 is more than an app launcher. im sorry but im going to have to disagree with u and downvote u.
    Yeah, I have to agree with you. I have many live tiles that are moving, changing, showing different pictures, weather updates, etc. Not all of them are ever changing but things like Flickr, apod viewer (free and paid(free trial)) create a two tile pic, plus there are apps that allow you to create your own tiles out of your pics that can flip, or even be up to six tiles big and create shortcuts to different things you want.
    10-06-2011 08:29 AM
  4. jdd77's Avatar
    Yes I do own a windows phone.. (thats why I started the thread) I have the HTC trophy. I think the phone is nice, even refreshing. Mango did fill in alot of gaps though...like certain menu options that are already on most other phones, groups, and alot of other things. Mango makes the phone much nicer to use. The things it truly added, like deep Facebook integration and more media options is nice but to me personally I could live without. I was really hoping for more phone-related things. I would've liked to have seen that little useless arrow disappear on the home screen to make full use of the screen. I would've like to have seen the metro UI as a secondary screen that you pull up or swipe to, and the home screen something that you can customize and have the phone dialer, contacts and messaging separate from everything. And I really thought there was gonna be more colors for tiles. I don't understand why there aren't any neutral colors like grey or black or white. Why would I want to look at a screen full of magenta or lime?
    Last edited by jdd77; 10-06-2011 at 01:38 PM.
    10-06-2011 08:31 AM
  5. Pronk's Avatar
    So I have to use the exact same apps as you or I'm doing it wrong? That's a ridiculous argument, guy. The apps I have pinned are the ones I want, and for the most part they offer no more info than an icon (but no would I expect or need them to). I have a few that offer up some more, but no more than a widget (and in some cases less). But the key point is they're not unique - they're just a name for a "thing", and other mobile OSs have their own "things" that more or less perform the same job. They're certainly not some incredible new concept in functionality totally unseen elsewhere.

    And WP7 is an app launcher because all OSs are ultimately app launchers. Hubs, you say? Apps themselves - organisational ones. It's an OS and a few core services. The tiles lead to apps. The Hub apps lead to other apps and/or their own functionality. The app list leads to, well apps. It doesn't do anything else because that's the whole point of it being a smartphone - you put what you want on it that's useful to you. Windows is an app launcher. OS X is an app launcher. Android is an app launcher. They're ALL app launchers.

    Regardless, you've completely missed my key point. Rather than some Emperor's new clothes strategy trying to disguise what WP7 calls things that everyone else has in some form or other or making out things it has are much more than they currently are ("the only phone with xbox live!" "Great, what can I do? Play cross-platform games? Has it got exclusive xbox crossovers?" "No, but you can re-dress your avatar!" "Oh."), why not focus on what it does have? It runs great, it isn't fussy, it's easy to use and it's good to look at. Simple and straightforward. At the moment it's like advertising a great new car that runs well and is fun to drive by focusing on the fact it has a special new shade of paint and the tyres are slightly thicker and called "ty-rons" instead.

    Oh, and you'll forgive me for not actually being bothered whether you downvote me or not. What with that not making any difference to anything, and that.
    1jaxstate1, thed and threed61 like this.
    10-06-2011 08:36 AM
  6. theefman's Avatar
    Seems people are missing the point. Its the sum of its parts that makes Mango so good compared to its competition. Do a search and right from there you can open relevant apps = convenience. Open IE and browse, more sites are compatible, render faster due to hardware acceleration = speed. Twitter & Facebook, limited in some ways but gets you one step closer to your social network = reachable. Live tiles, done well (like creating a group of your twitter feed) = informative. Don't forget the things that are actually built in that require apps on other platforms, like Bing vision, audio, local scout.

    Put it all together and WP7's EXPERIENCE as a whole is superior. Not feature for feature or by app count, but using it to get things done is just better, IMO. And its far from an app launcher, and even when you do launch an app they are usually prettier than apps on competing platforms. Mango definitely makes WP7 a whole lot better to me.
    Last edited by theefman; 10-06-2011 at 08:52 AM.
    theman60099 and HeyCori like this.
    10-06-2011 08:44 AM
  7. fifthGear's Avatar
    So I have to use the exact same apps as you or I'm doing it wrong? That's a ridiculous argument, guy. The apps I have pinned are the ones I want, and for the most part they offer no more info than an icon (but no would I expect or need them to). I have a few that offer up some more, but no more than a widget (and in some cases less). But the key point is they're not unique - they're just a name for a "thing", and other mobile OSs have their own "things" that more or less perform the same job. They're certainly not some incredible new concept in functionality totally unseen elsewhere.

    And WP7 is an app launcher because all OSs are ultimately app launchers. Hubs, you say? Apps themselves - organisational ones. It's an OS and a few core services. The tiles lead to apps. The Hub apps lead to other apps and/or their own functionality. The app list leads to, well apps. It doesn't do anything else because that's the whole point of it being a smartphone - you put what you want on it that's useful to you. Windows is an app launcher. OS X is an app launcher. Android is an app launcher. They're ALL app launchers.

    Regardless, you've completely missed my key point. Rather than some Emperor's new clothes strategy trying to disguise what WP7 calls things that everyone else has in some form or other or making out things it has are much more than they currently are ("the only phone with xbox live!" "Great, what can I do? Play cross-platform games? Has it got exclusive xbox crossovers?" "No, but you can re-dress your avatar!" "Oh."), why not focus on what it does have? It runs great, it isn't fussy, it's easy to use and it's good to look at. Simple and straightforward. At the moment it's like advertising a great new car that runs well and is fun to drive by focusing on the fact it has a special new shade of paint and the tyres are slightly thicker and called "ty-rons" instead.

    Oh, and you'll forgive me for not actually being bothered whether you downvote me or not. What with that not making any difference to anything, and that.

    Wow! but NO! An operating system is not a launcher. The computer science definition of an operating system is a piece of software which manages (shares out to apps and recycles) the resource of a platform for guest applications. Resource management includes things such as providing chunks of working memory, and virtual memory to running applications, and time sharing of things such as cpu, shared memory, communications devices (radios, network cards, etc.) and sound devices to apps to prevent multiple apps from accessing something at the same time.

    A Launcher is nothing more than one of the applications running on a host operating system. UNIX-like operating systems have a multitude of "launchers" -- usually called shells; some graphical, others are command driven (sort of like DOS).

    Most Lay people think that an OS is a launcher because that's the only thing they see.
    10-06-2011 12:13 PM
  8. Pronk's Avatar
    Yeah, and I was writing it from the point of view of most people, and indeed what most people actually want. I know an OS (any OS) isn't literally just an app launcher, but I wasn't aware we had to get technical just to make a point that people use smartphones to run stuff they want. Unless you know many people who buy phones based on their resource management algorithms ;)
    10-06-2011 12:23 PM
  9. kylej1050's Avatar
    I didn't even know it had built-in music tagging(so long Shazam)! Awesome! And until I read this I hadn't tried bing vision either. Nice...

    AND skydrive in my mobile office. Totally awesome.

    Now if I could only get my Zune pass to work.
    10-06-2011 01:17 PM
  10. theman60099's Avatar
    So I have to use the exact same apps as you or I'm doing it wrong? That's a ridiculous argument, guy. The apps I have pinned are the ones I want, and for the most part they offer no more info than an icon (but no would I expect or need them to). I have a few that offer up some more, but no more than a widget (and in some cases less). But the key point is they're not unique - they're just a name for a "thing", and other mobile OSs have their own "things" that more or less perform the same job. They're certainly not some incredible new concept in functionality totally unseen elsewhere.

    And WP7 is an app launcher because all OSs are ultimately app launchers. Hubs, you say? Apps themselves - organisational ones. It's an OS and a few core services. The tiles lead to apps. The Hub apps lead to other apps and/or their own functionality. The app list leads to, well apps. It doesn't do anything else because that's the whole point of it being a smartphone - you put what you want on it that's useful to you. Windows is an app launcher. OS X is an app launcher. Android is an app launcher. They're ALL app launchers.

    Regardless, you've completely missed my key point. Rather than some Emperor's new clothes strategy trying to disguise what WP7 calls things that everyone else has in some form or other or making out things it has are much more than they currently are ("the only phone with xbox live!" "Great, what can I do? Play cross-platform games? Has it got exclusive xbox crossovers?" "No, but you can re-dress your avatar!" "Oh."), why not focus on what it does have? It runs great, it isn't fussy, it's easy to use and it's good to look at. Simple and straightforward. At the moment it's like advertising a great new car that runs well and is fun to drive by focusing on the fact it has a special new shade of paint and the tyres are slightly thicker and called "ty-rons" instead.

    Oh, and you'll forgive me for not actually being bothered whether you downvote me or not. What with that not making any difference to anything, and that.
    it may be ridiculous by ur POV but it's true. the live tiles are what makes wp7 stand out from the rest, the fact that u dont have to open an app to see the info it offers or to see the info in more detail. wp7 is far from an app launcher just for the reason that people often have/need 3 or 4 apps on other OSes to do the same things that wp7 has integrated within it. so yea u missed my point and another down vote coming ur way.
    10-06-2011 02:16 PM
  11. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Lol!
    yeah, and i was writing it from the point of view of most people, and indeed what most people actually want. I know an os (any os) isn't literally just an app launcher, but i wasn't aware we had to get technical just to make a point that people use smartphones to run stuff they want. Unless you know many people who buy phones based on their resource management algorithms ;)
    10-06-2011 02:25 PM
  12. adamopinheiro's Avatar
    LOL!! sadly even oh you build your OWN device and you might think its the Best and has ALLLL the features... i bet allot of people would still say its lacking LOL...

    nothing on this planet is perfect.... but you can find the Perfect Things(phone,girls,car,jobs..ect.) for YOU!! ;)
    I'm pretty sure you don't treat your girl as a 'thing'. Just saying... :P
    10-06-2011 03:35 PM
  13. selfcreation's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure you don't treat your girl as a 'thing'. Just saying... :P
    lol no , i was actually thinking about that when i wrote it hahaha
    10-06-2011 03:50 PM
  14. kallemia's Avatar
    It's the way the OS integrates services and application data other than its own that sets this OS apart from the others. And Hubs may simply be applications to you, but they are applications that set this OS apart from others. A pictures hub that includes saved pictures, synced pictures from various collections on my computer, camera roll, pictures from social websites, photo-sharing sites... it's not just that there is a hub app called Pictures... it's the way that the hub app works to coordinate images without me having to do much of anything special. As an app, it largely gets out of the way and lets me "find/use my stuff"...

    You claim that the distinction between an OS and an App Launcher is not important, or too technical. Well I'd say your overly technical reliance on the term App is in the way as well.

    It's not about what are apps and what aren't. It's about what they do, and the way they do it.

    Kalle

    And WP7 is an app launcher because all OSs are ultimately app launchers. Hubs, you say? Apps themselves - organisational ones. It's an OS and a few core services. The tiles lead to apps. The Hub apps lead to other apps and/or their own functionality. The app list leads to, well apps. It doesn't do anything else because that's the whole point of it being a smartphone - you put what you want on it that's useful to you. Windows is an app launcher. OS X is an app launcher. Android is an app launcher. They're ALL app launchers.
    astroXP and Airanp like this.
    10-06-2011 04:05 PM
  15. jakomos's Avatar
    im in love with these three things:

    voice texting
    the camera shutter sound "off" function !!
    voice turn-by-turn directions in the maps by touching the screen

    the w7.5 mango is the best smartphone os out there. ms just smurfed the competition.
    10-07-2011 09:48 AM
  16. jdd77's Avatar
    I'm really starting to like Zune. Didn't know what it was before I got this phone and have it only because I had to install it to upgrade to mango..its pretty cool. Now if I could only figure out how to play my music on this phone through the car speakers..
    10-07-2011 10:09 AM
  17. J4rrod's Avatar
    u must not be using the right apps if u think the live tiles aren't any better than icons. and wp7 is more than an app launcher. im sorry but im going to have to disagree with u and downvote u.
    WAIT A SECOND. That dude really said Live Tiles were no better than icons? Wow.

    Funny how I can see the weather, gold's current price, WPcentral's latest article title, whether it's my turn in Alphajax or not, my current movie of interest's Rotten Tomatoes rating, whether the eBay item I'm bidding on is still being won by me or if I've been outbid or if the item is currently ending, etc. I could go on, and there are tons of Live Tile apps out there. If you're not using the OS to its full potential, that's your fault.
    HeyCori and theman60099 like this.
    10-07-2011 06:58 PM
  18. theman60099's Avatar
    I'm really starting to like Zune. Didn't know what it was before I got this phone and have it only because I had to install it to upgrade to mango..its pretty cool. Now if I could only figure out how to play my music on this phone through the car speakers..
    that's an easy one, same way ud hook up an iDevice or any other mp3 player.

    WAIT A SECOND. That dude really said Live Tiles were no better than icons? Wow.

    Funny how I can see the weather, gold's current price, WPcentral's latest article title, whether it's my turn in Alphajax or not, my current movie of interest's Rotten Tomatoes rating, whether the eBay item I'm bidding on is still being won by me or if I've been outbid or if the item is currently ending, etc. I could go on, and there are tons of Live Tile apps out there. If you're not using the OS to its full potential, that's your fault.
    yes the live tiles are amazing. the USA today app shows a newspaper format while the iPhone and android just have a static blue "USA TODAY" icon.
    10-07-2011 08:49 PM
  19. Pronk's Avatar
    My point (entirely missed, I might add) is that the live tiles are just another name for a thing that other systems (widgets, icons) have to some degree. Some give more info, some less.

    What I don't get - and what I was trying to get across - is why the focus in marketing etc. is on WP7s different names for things that exist in varying forms elsewhere rather than on what it genuinely does excellently - run fast, smoothly and be intuitive to use. That's it. I'm not literally saying "an icon on iOS is exactly the same as a live tile" and never was. I think they should show the OS doing what it does, not go on about semantics. Joe Public won't care that a tile is called a tile or a hub a hub or a folder or whatever, they care about it working and not being a pain in the backside.

    Man, some people on here are desperate to frame anything that's not flat-out praise as criticism.
    10-08-2011 05:37 AM
  20. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    I get what ur saying dude. I think they call their icons tiles to try and stand out from iPhone and Android. If they can get people to think in terms of "tiles" instead of "icons" they will start increasing mind share which I'm sure they hope will lead to more people interested in buying WP7.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Airanp likes this.
    10-08-2011 09:12 AM
  21. theman60099's Avatar
    I get what ur saying dude. I think they call their icons tiles to try and stand out from iPhone and Android. If they can get people to think in terms of "tiles" instead of "icons" they will start increasing mind share which I'm sure they hope will lead to more people interested in buying WP7.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    they aren't icons.
    10-08-2011 04:35 PM
  22. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Icons | Define Icons at Dictionary.com
    they aren't icons.
    10-08-2011 04:54 PM
  23. Coffee's Avatar
    good definition, and shows that tiles are not icons.
    10-08-2011 04:57 PM
  24. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    If it's not an icon, what is it. It's the exact definition of an icon. Call it what you want, but it is what it is.
    good definition, and shows that tiles are not icons.
    10-08-2011 05:04 PM
  25. Coffee's Avatar
    no, an icon is a picture representation of a command, as you linked in your definition. A tile isn't a picture representation of a command, it has a picture, and it can be a command, too, and also has information like location, news, weather, etc. Icons don't.

    Is a motorcycle a bicycle because it has two wheels and they're both 'transportation'? No, because a motorcycle has an engine. It's a bicycle plus more. just like a tile is an icon, plus more.

    You can call it an icon if you want, doesn't matter to me.
    theman60099 likes this.
    10-08-2011 05:07 PM
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