01-31-2012 04:39 PM
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  1. threed61's Avatar
    Quad core android tablet has just been announced a couple days ago. Tegra 3 based Asus Transformer Prime. They should have called it "Asus Optimus Prime" :)

    Asus Transformer Prime announced: World's first NVIDIA Tegra 3 tablet is official
    I think the HTC Edge smartphone is supposed to be quad core too.
    11-10-2011 12:25 PM
  2. power5's Avatar
    You are right and it looks dead sexy too. Nice features around the camera on back and nice curved edge like the lumia 800 on the screen.
    11-10-2011 01:16 PM
  3. Rhody#WP's Avatar
    What you guys are talking about as a danger, Apple is using to drive long lines at Apple stores every year. If the OS catches on and people buy into the ecosystem, they will wait in line to pay full price for hardware.
    11-10-2011 01:25 PM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    Apollo will be available as an upgrade to Gen 1 handsets. Why wouldn't it be? Computers from 2005 can upgrade to windows 8 .

    Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
    That's what I have read also, next comes Tango, then Apollo. I hope it happens, but I'll be surprised if it does. It just seemd like more than one could usually expect for phone upgrades.
    11-10-2011 01:56 PM
  5. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    [...]

    1) Whatever WP7 hardware you pick is highly optimsed and the performance you get is significantly better than what merely looking at the tech specs would suggest. So while there are technically better devices you really dont feel you are missing anything performance wise. Case in point, the 2nd gen devices with their FFC's seem to be handling video calling better than the single core androids did, and the better GPU seems to make the already smooth OS smoother still. So you get better performanc with a newer device but 1st gen devices still feel snappy and work with all applications.
    [...]
    Apple does the same thing. Only issue is, not all features make it back to the older devices based purely on performance alone. Others, for differenciation, etc.


    But one other thing to note...

    Apple has been either on the bleeding edge or on the upper cut on SoC, too. Their A4 was already fast for it's time, A5 was unmatched when it was released, and still has the fastest mobile GPU. The samsung SoCs before that were no slouches, either (SGX535 GPU). MS, on the other hand, launched on the Qualcomm snapdragon S1 chips, which were already outperformed by the S2 chips out the door, and were not even competitive in any sense vs the S3 chips that followed soon after (S2/S3 made on a smaller fab process vs S1). Only now, we see S2 chips, which are hopelesly outmatched by current gen chips. Yeah, MS doesn't need much processing power, but app resume/load times are still bad, web browsing certainly could be faster, and all S1/S2/S3 designs are still limited badly by the fact that the second memory channel is off package, so it's almost never implemented, hanpering it's performance even further (not even going to mention the memory bandwidth benefits of Tile Rendering in PowerVR GPUs - which is a technology MS developed in Tailsman, lol).

    In the short run, I can see why MS isn't pushing the edge of performance, mainly due to limitations of current SoC. Hopefully S4 with a new arch and fab process alltogether will come soon, and allow the next push of WP7 devices to have good HW to back them up. (ST-E NovaThor has it's share of flaws, too... more so than Snapdragon IMO)

    More hopefully, however, MS and it's partners will make a phone and software ecosystem that is worthy of a massive "Droid-esque" marketing push that put Android seriously on the map.
    11-10-2011 02:41 PM
  6. theefman's Avatar
    I think MS is waiting for the OS to mature enough to take advantage of the bleeding edge hardware as well. Things like NFC and Bluetooth 4.0 will inevitably come but I dont expect to see them race to adopt each new hardware advance as it comes available. What we will see is probably more an integration with MS tech like Kinect and whatever new cool thing MS research thinks up.
    11-10-2011 02:59 PM
  7. Judge_Daniel's Avatar
    The bottom line is that Apollo is going to be a huge change in Windows Phone. Dual-cores, different screen resolution, more native connectivity to Windows (8?), major NFC integration, Inspiration Engine, etc. will all be a part of Apollo (as far as we know). These aren't all just stat-boosters. Some of these are game-changers. The NFC, W8-connectivity, and screen resolution are the three that concern me the most. I'm not sure if Mango phones will even be able to cope with those. That is why cell phones are different than TVs, computers, etc. There isn't always an option to upgrade them. For example, I bought a WM 6.5 phone less than a year before WP7 came out. I don't regret it (I LOVE my Imagio), but it did leave a bad taste in my mouth when MS announced that no 6.5 phone would be able to upgrade to 7. I realize there is a probably a much greater difference between 6.5 and 7 than 7.5 and 8, but we don't really know just how great of a difference there will be in the next iteration of WP. Furthermore, it is rumored that it may come mid-2012. That means if I go with a Nokia phone in early 2012, then I'll get about 6 months out of my phone before it is obsolete. That is unacceptable when required to have a two year contract.

    Basically, any educated consumer should be concerned. Not necessarily deterred, but concerned. After all, WP 7.5 is a great, great product in itself, but it is always good to look forward.
    11-10-2011 03:07 PM
  8. theefman's Avatar
    None of the things you mention preclude an upgrade for 1st gen devices, only means they wont be able to take advantage of all the features in Apollo. And I highly doubt the rumour that Apollo is going to appear mid 2012, MS has stated they are on a yearly schedule for big platform updates, and launching so early doesnt give enough time to release updated dev tools.

    Plus Nokia will be launching US devices early 2012, hardly good PR to announce devices then 3 months later obsolete them, is it? Just look at the Xbox, 6 years old and just using software updates you basically get a new console even with a launch console. Lets not forget rumours tend to be just that, we've seen our fair share with the Mango update. Apollo in mid 2012 doesnt make sense unless MS is in full desperation mode, and everything they've said points to them playing this as a long term operation. I dont see why anyone should be especially concerned about WP7's upgrade cycle, more applicable to android where its anyone's guess if you will ever get an update.
    11-10-2011 04:51 PM
  9. rluka's Avatar
    They need to assure us that what we're buying is going to last for that long. Having already outdated hardware and showing such grandeur on the horizon isn't the best way to make sales today.
    In the market they have more experience in (PC business), OEM usually have free upgrade program.

    All new PCs purchased in about half year before planned release of the next Windows or Office will be eligible for free software upgrade to the latest version. They understand that consumers (and small business) will hold back from buying computers (more expensive than phones) when a new OS is in the corner.
    The fact that Windows itself cost $100+ is not helping
    11-10-2011 05:18 PM
  10. Dark Mirage's Avatar
    Actually, I wondered how much the idea and arguments about dual core is planted by Neowin's recent editorial
    More reasons as to why Windows Phone needs dual-cores - Neowin.net

    If compared to PC, I also don't feel the need for latest biggest baddest video card, THE component that's always in Need For Speed mode for latest 3D games in desktop.
    It's articles like that which articulate better my point about the need for Microsoft to catch up with Android and Apple in the hardware department.

    It's not just about the OS (which, yes, IS wonderfully smooth). It's also about the apps and features. Android and Apple phones can already do things that make a Windows Phone look tame. By the time we get dual-core support, WP7's feature set and apps will likely look archaic in comparison. And let's not forget just how many amazing mobile games we are going to miss out on for the next six, or more, months (titles which would offer a much needed boost to the mobile Live service).

    I love WP7; I really do. The OS is fantastic. But, at the same time, I can't help but feel like I'm missing out. Anyone who's seen me in the gaming portion of the forums will know this right away. I don't want to sacrifice my OS... but, outside of that, Android and Apple are just seem to be handling things so much better. I've already waited a year for things to pick up... Asking me to do it for possibly another is when you start to ask too much :/. I can't handle the one day a week release schedule for Live. Especially when there are few decent indie games in between to spice it up.
    Judge_Daniel and Pronk like this.
    11-10-2011 06:34 PM
  11. Blacklac's Avatar
    Keep in mind, iOS games and Apps still support older devices (iP4 and 3GS). They are not built to fully utilize the 4S hardware. Plus even the 4S only has 512MB RAM, so there isn't really an advantage on that front either. Not that WP doesn't need to push their hardware specs, I just dont think the grass is THAT green on the other side. ;)

    ****, I'm about to join WP from Blackberry. WP is in decent shape to me! :D ( I joke, I still LOVE my Playbook and think if RIM can pull it together a little, they will have a solid future.) Looking forward to my HTC Titan though. :)
    11-10-2011 06:53 PM
  12. pseudoware's Avatar
    Apollo will be available as an upgrade to Gen 1 handsets. Why wouldn't it be? Computers from 2005 can upgrade to windows 8 . To say it won't be is just plain curs.
    Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
    This is what I understand, also. I recall reading something that sounded like this is assumed. The 1st gen devices will get cut-off at some point, or course, but not at Apollo.
    11-10-2011 07:05 PM
  13. Dark Mirage's Avatar
    That's not entirely true. 3GS support is still around, yeah. But a number of game developers have stopped support for the device. It's also missing certain features from the iOS5.

    While all things will end eventually, the problem still lies in what everyone else has pointed out: When WP7 was released, it was already outdated hardware. Our S1 processors are already a couple generations behind. There's not much more you can squeeze out of them. When Apollo hits, our processors will be about three years behind. For a cellphone, that's getting long in the tooth... Especially when you consider that Snapdragon's processors aren't exactly the worlds best.

    I have no doubt we'll still get support from MS either way, but I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about missing out on games and apps.
    11-10-2011 07:09 PM
  14. Blacklac's Avatar
    I dont disagree with your points, at all, but I mean even the iPhone 4 is a 800Mhz single core with 512MB RAM. Granted, it may have a better GPU, iOS devs will be supporting that for atleast another year. HOnestly, I think WP should worry about Devs coming to the platform itself than Devs dumbing down games for a single core CPU. You can do alot with a 1-1.5Ghz single core and 512MB RAM. It's not like the GPU is awful either.

    But yeah, I understand your points and concerns.
    11-10-2011 07:22 PM
  15. joemd60's Avatar
    Shhhhh keep it down! All this sub-standard WP7 talk is hurting my sub-standard Trophy's feelings! :D
    palandri likes this.
    11-10-2011 07:49 PM
  16. Dark Mirage's Avatar
    I think maybe I just bought the phone for the wrong reasons... Or, rather, I bought it for the RIGHT reasons, but they never came to pass. I bought Windows Phone because it connected to Xbox Live, and that particular portion of the phone has been less than stellar. Nor will it ever fulfill my expectations given the older tech. I expected a real gaming phone given the branding, but it's no secret that Android and Apple are covering that base in superior fashion.

    Ah well... For everyone who doesn't care about that so much, they should find satisfaction until Apollo arrives. We definitely need more apps though.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    11-10-2011 09:51 PM
  17. Dave Blake's Avatar
    I guess what I have to say is you don't put a jet engine on a Porsche do you? No you don't why because you don't need it. You don't put monster truck tires on a Motorcycle do you? No you don't because you don't need it. When I look at my Focus S I don't see substandard hardware. I see a Porsche built with what it needs to perform... Nothing wasted. MHO

    Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
    palandri and joemd60 like this.
    11-10-2011 10:49 PM
  18. Pronk's Avatar
    Good point - but the problem is, you don't have a proper Porsche. You have a Porsche bodyshell with the engine from a Honda Civic in it. That's all well and good for pottering round your neighbourhood and trips downtown - it does all you need, you don't notice, it feels great, looks great and turns heads. But they're opening that new dual-lane highway soon that leads straight to polygonville in Hardcore Gamer county. And your Porsche Civic might look fab and run smooth round town, but it's going to sweat, chug and eventually give out when you push it to the top speeds you need to take it on the new road, even though it's only a few months old.

    I...I've extended the metaphor too far, haven't I? :)
    Judge_Daniel and Dark Mirage like this.
    11-11-2011 05:46 AM
  19. Dave Blake's Avatar
    Good point - but the problem is, you don't have a proper Porsche. You have a Porsche bodyshell with the engine from a Honda Civic in it. That's all well and good for pottering round your neighbourhood and trips downtown - it does all you need, you don't notice, it feels great, looks great and turns heads. But they're opening that new dual-lane highway soon that leads straight to polygonville in Hardcore Gamer county. And your Porsche Civic might look fab and run smooth round town, but it's going to sweat, chug and eventually give out when you push it to the top speeds you need to take it on the new road, even though it's only a few months old.

    I...I've extended the metaphor too far, haven't I? :)
    Just a little plus you copmpletly missed the point. WP7 doesn't need doul core to pass the bug boys on the doul core highway the OS takes care of that. I have many friends with Big Boy Droids we can pick any task there choice or mine and I wipe the floor with them. Why pay more for something you don't need. When this OS outgrows the hardware that's when we will need more processed speed but for now it's just a waist of space and money.
    11-11-2011 07:08 AM
  20. Pronk's Avatar
    But it does mean that our WP7 phones - even brand new ones - are considerably less future proof than people buying droids or iPhones with more oomph. I think that's the real problem. That, and the fact even if the OS runs fine (which it does), when apps/games come along that do need more horsepower it's just not going to be there.
    Judge_Daniel likes this.
    11-11-2011 07:17 AM
  21. jalb's Avatar
    I think sometimes we (or at least I) are caught up in the marketing push to upgrade upgrade upgrade! I can honestly say that 2011 was the first year that I was actually thinking about my next next phone - i.e., the phone I will get after the next phone I will get! Makes my head spin!
    threed61 likes this.
    11-11-2011 08:08 AM
  22. Rhody#WP's Avatar
    Just a little plus you copmpletly missed the point. WP7 doesn't need doul core to pass the bug boys on the doul core highway the OS takes care of that. I have many friends with Big Boy Droids we can pick any task there choice or mine and I wipe the floor with them. Why pay more for something you don't need. When this OS outgrows the hardware that's when we will need more processed speed but for now it's just a waist of space and money.
    ...and battery life. I made the mistake of falling for hardware specs when I got an Evo 4G. It spent more time on the charger than anything. I had to turn off all those gas-guzzling features in order to enjoy the phone all day. What's the point of having a rocket strapped to your Porsche when you spend all day at the gas station?
    11-11-2011 08:15 AM
  23. Judge_Daniel's Avatar
    There's a difference between always wanting the best and wanting to future-proof oneself. I understand that the current Windows Phones are great. Heck, I've already had tons of fun with my Focus. But, if I'm going to get stuck in a two-year contract again, I am going to want a product that will be able to hold its own for at least half of it, if not more.

    This might just be from the fact that I'm coming from the Imagio. First off, I can put a new look on it at any time. There are tons of great roms that let me customize just about anything I want. Because of this, I've gotten used to the "new" feel of a phone. One that comes with new software, rather than new hardware (I actually don't really care if my WP has dual-core. My Imagio is running at 528mhz, after all). I believe that is why I look so forward to Windows Phone updates. Secondly, I felt dropped by Microsoft after they announced that 6.5 phones would be ineligible to upgrade to 7. I guess that has made me extra wary towards buying again near another iteration's release.

    I really don't think I'm being unfair, though. I simply want to be an informed consumer that wants to get the most out of the money I spend.
    11-11-2011 08:17 AM
  24. threed61's Avatar
    The fact that sales people point out what WP doesn't have, (compared to Android) instead of what it doesn't need has hurt sales somewhat. Especially if the 'higher specced' phone is the same price as the lower priced one. Hands on with someone who knows what they're talking about can often win customers over, of course the store has to actually want to sell the phone too.
    11-11-2011 09:47 AM
  25. Judge_Daniel's Avatar
    It makes me wonder. If the Windows Phones are cheaper off-contract, but are the same on-contract, why wouldn't the carriers want to sell them so they could make as much money as possible?
    11-11-2011 10:55 AM
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