01-31-2012 04:39 PM
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  1. johnmcd348's Avatar
    The biggest factor of why I just can't make that dive into smartphones is wrapping my head around $90/month(incl taxes & fees). $90/month for what I anticipate as light usage, essentially a very expensive toy.
    I was the same way. It took me literally years to finally go the smartphone route. I always kept my phone and PDA separate and hardly ever upgraded. I used the same cell phone for probably 4 or more years before upgrading and I always had a separate PDA beginning with my HP iPAQ 2000 series and eventually moving on to my Dell Axim x51v's that I used for about 6 years before finally moving on to my TP2 about 2 years ago now.

    For me, it's worth the convenience of not having to carry around a phone and a PDA.
    11-11-2011 12:12 PM
  2. N8ter's Avatar
    I dont disagree with your points, at all, but I mean even the iPhone 4 is a 800Mhz single core with 512MB RAM. Granted, it may have a better GPU, iOS devs will be supporting that for atleast another year. HOnestly, I think WP should worry about Devs coming to the platform itself than Devs dumbing down games for a single core CPU. You can do alot with a 1-1.5Ghz single core and 512MB RAM. It's not like the GPU is awful either.

    But yeah, I understand your points and concerns.
    The GPU is awful compared to what's in dual core phones. It awful compared to hummingbird as well and A4 when you fracture in texture quality. Adreno 205 is totally forgettable. There is nothing to gain by latching onto that forgettable hardware. You can clock it to 1.9 ghz and it will still be bad, just produce more heat yay!

    An the A4 in the i4 was under clicked to 800 from 1ghz, just like the snapdragon in the G2 was under clocked to a similar speed. That's done cause the clock speed isn't the only thing that matters. Better processors with lower clock speeds can still perform on par or better, as the 1.2 ghz exynos vs the 1.5 ghz dual snapdragon in gs2 variants easily display.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    11-11-2011 03:41 PM
  3. N8ter's Avatar
    Just a little plus you copmpletly missed the point. WP7 doesn't need doul core to pass the bug boys on the doul core highway the OS takes care of that. I have many friends with Big Boy Droids we can pick any task there choice or mine and I wipe the floor with them. Why pay more for something you don't need. When this OS outgrows the hardware that's when we will need more processed speed but for now it's just a waist of space and money.
    You're completely missing the point. The OS exists to run apps and having terrible hardware means apps will be limited compared to competitors. You can cry all day about android UI latency but when you load a game up they run circles around any windows phone - first or second gen.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    11-11-2011 04:19 PM
  4. N8ter's Avatar
    But when games are optimized for it one won't notice its "forgettableness" and this is the case for WP.

    Sent from my T7575 using Board Express
    The hardware is weak. You can optimize all you want and that will not turn an s1 or s2 into an exynos. You're missing the obvious point too. How optimized the OS is doesn't matter. Android is exhibit A of this. Hardware can more than make up for that.

    Thats like saying you can outperform a high end GPU with a budget GPU if you optimize well. Even without optimization the newer SoCs have a huge performance advantage.

    The hardware is forgettable. Plain and simple. It's worse than galaxy s specs almost two years after that phone was released.

    iOS is very smooth so saying wp is smooth is not reason enough to waste money on these mid 2010 era smartphones.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    11-11-2011 04:22 PM
  5. theefman's Avatar
    The hardware is weak. You can optimize all you want and that will not turn an s1 or s2 into an exynos. You're missing the obvious point too. How optimized the OS is doesn't matter. Android is exhibit A of this. Hardware can more than make up for that.

    Thats like saying you can outperform a high end GPU with a budget GPU if you optimize well. Even without optimization the newer SoCs have a huge performance advantage.

    The hardware is forgettable. Plain and simple. It's worse than galaxy s specs almost two years after that phone was released.

    iOS is very smooth so saying wp is smooth is not reason enough to waste money on these mid 2010 era smartphones.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    So now we're wasting money on WP7? You've brought the full force of your WP7 hatred with you from XDA havent you, posting how bad WP7 is everywhere you can, concentrating solely on the hardware specs and the theoretical performance. Real world performance though proves you wrong and the absence of some games is more due to the lack of native code access for advanced game engines than any limitation in the hardware.

    And just as the PS3 Xbox battle showed, its not just the hardware that counts, its the overall service and with Microsoft starting to bring all its properties together and bring WP7 and the Xbox closer that will be another plus point.

    FYI to other members, this poster has a serious hate-on for WP7, just check his post history on XDA xda-developers. While everyone is not going to love WP7 and there is nothing wrong with discussing its pros and cons, trying to have a sensible debate with someone who obviously hates this product will be difficult.
    Last edited by theefman; 11-11-2011 at 05:26 PM.
    11-11-2011 05:20 PM
  6. jalb's Avatar

    iOS is very smooth so saying wp is smooth is not reason enough to waste money on these mid 2010 era smartphones.


    wolf1891, joemd60 and threed61 like this.
    11-11-2011 06:42 PM
  7. N8ter's Avatar
    No one had any issues talking to me here. I don't think my opinion is the problem.

    Google an apple are already improving their services and in some areas have eclipsed Microsoft. Google has always been ahead when it comes to web services and while xbl is cool it simply won't be able to skirt on the Xbox branding. More is needed. Right now the only thing mentionable it has that game center doesn't is avatars.

    Ps3 lost because their pricing was ludicrous. Xb360 has worse hardware an it was priced accordingly. Windows phones aren't. Xbox also launched months before the ps3.

    Yes. To the average consumer the hardware in these phones seems like a waste. It's like getting a pinto for the same price as a Ferrari. More in some cases.

    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    Last edited by N8ter; 11-11-2011 at 07:47 PM.
    11-11-2011 07:40 PM
  8. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    So if YOU don't like it, them don't buy it. Don't see the big deal.

    Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
    11-11-2011 07:45 PM
  9. N8ter's Avatar
    I bought it a year ago. When it was new. Not even you knew if you liked it when I bought it. Hard concept to grasp. I know.

    The OS has nothing to do what the hardware though. In talking about the actual phones. Not the OS.

    The other poster is just derailing and fishing for flames.

    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    11-11-2011 07:47 PM
  10. Dave Blake's Avatar
    Everyone play nice. I think I'll hang around for a while just in case.
    11-11-2011 09:08 PM
  11. Blacklac's Avatar
    so exactly what games are you missing out on?
    11-11-2011 09:31 PM
  12. Dark Mirage's Avatar
    Hardly a troll thread. This has actually been a fairly worthwhile, genuine discussion. And so far, almost no one has gotten heated over it.

    If anything, this just goes to show how many people want to love and devote themselves this platform. Despite all the criticism and desire for Microsoft to step up their game, what I'm taking away from this is that many of us really don't want to abandon our Windows Phones. We really, really, want the OS to succeed... We just can't see it happening with the pace Microsoft is advancing at.

    Personally, I think that's a mostly positive message. If Microsoft can just bring us the goods, we're more than happy to stay aboard. But think I it's pretty clear that we're not willing to wait a year or more for that to happen. Windows Phone needs more hardware choices... and better ones.
    11-12-2011 03:23 AM
  13. Dark Mirage's Avatar
    so exactly what games are you missing out on?
    What aren't we missing out on?

    Max Payne, Grand Theft Auto 3, Infinity Blade 2, Dead Space, Dark Meadow, Order and Chaos Online, Real Racing, Zen Bound 2, Galaxy on Fire 2, NOVA 2, etc.

    The thing is, we're actually missing out on single core games too, and few of which I slipped onto that list. Why? Because our phone's graphics processor does, actually, really suck:

    Can Dual-core Android Phones Like the LG G2x Replace Your Gaming Console?

    It's a little upsetting to see that the iPhone 4 at 800mhz is, potentially, twice as powerful as my Focus at 1Ghz. That would go a long ways towards explaining why we haven't seen more high-end titles on our platform.
    11-12-2011 03:43 AM
  14. Pronk's Avatar
    so exactly what games are you missing out on?
    Put it this way - if you have an iPhone 4S and an Apple TV you can wirelessly mirror all your games/apps to your TV. That basically turns it into a games console, big screen web browser - you name it.

    I have a WP7 phone and an Xbox 360, and all I can do with them currently is fiddle with my avatar and play a handful of linked games. Shortly, there'll be the remote control app, which is cool. But it's still way behind the competition. Thing is though, even if it weren't it couldn't do much because the phone can't handle the heavy lifting of games with serious polygon counts.

    MS are the ones who go on about three screens and all that, but they're already behind the curve. I really hope they pick up the pace with Apollo specs, but as already mentioned that's going to leave all the current hardware dead in the water. But I don't see they have a choice if they want to stay up with what iOS/Android can do.
    11-12-2011 04:15 AM
  15. Blacklac's Avatar
    What aren't we missing out on?

    Max Payne, Grand Theft Auto 3, Infinity Blade 2, Dead Space, Dark Meadow, Order and Chaos Online, Real Racing, Zen Bound 2, Galaxy on Fire 2, NOVA 2, etc.

    The thing is, we're actually missing out on single core games too, and few of which I slipped onto that list. Why? Because our phone's graphics processor does, actually, really suck:

    Can Dual-core Android Phones Like the LG G2x Replace Your Gaming Console?

    It's a little upsetting to see that the iPhone 4 at 800mhz is, potentially, twice as powerful as my Focus at 1Ghz. That would go a long ways towards explaining why we haven't seen more high-end titles on our platform.
    So why do you think these are "dual core games"? Some of these are compatible with iOS 3.X.X devices. Considering the 1st gen iPod Touch is a 3.X.X device and runs @412Mhz. Even 2nd Gen is only 533Mhz with the same GPU as the first Gen. I dont think processing power is the issue. Have you actually contacted the developers about these games? I would guess the issue is more thst they simply havent got around to porting them all to this platform yet. I know EA and Gameloft have been pretty busy porting games to Blackberry's Playbook lately.

    You havent seen "high-end" games because WP doesnt have the market share of iOS and Android. On top of all that, the other platforms (iOS, Android and even Blackberry) that have those games also have tablets, which the games were probably mainly ported for.
    Last edited by Blacklac; 11-12-2011 at 05:16 AM.
    11-12-2011 05:00 AM
  16. power5's Avatar
    So why do you think these are "dual core games"? Some of these are compatible with iOS 3.X.X devices. Considering the 1st gen iPod Touch is a 3.X.X device and runs @412Mhz. Even 2nd Gen is only 533Mhz with the same GPU as the first Gen. I dont think processing power is the issue. Have you actually contacted the developers about these games? I would guess the issue is more thst they simply havent got around to porting them all to this platform yet. I know EA and Gameloft have been pretty busy porting games to Blackberry's Playbook lately.

    You havent seen "high-end" games because WP doesnt have the market share of iOS and Android. On top of all that, the other platforms (iOS, Android and even Blackberry) that have those games also have tablets, which the games were probably mainly ported for.
    4th gen touch is the only one with retina display which is so vastly more pixels than the other gens. You are not running the games listed on a retina display with only a 412mhz CPU. If the games are not limited by DC requirements its not any better for MS. WP still does not have any of the top games. Hardware is required to play the high polygon intense AI games. Sorry, it is. Does not matter how smooth the OS runs, games are completely different and independent of that.
    11-12-2011 09:44 AM
  17. Major's Avatar
    I haven't made the switch from Android yet, though I plan to. The hardware horse has been beaten to death, but I think that short of some cutting edge games, WP7 hardware is more than equal to the task. The only spec I wish had been improved by now is screen resolution. My concerns are more on the software side. Where are the custom keyboards? Browser alternatives? Above all, some app categories are woefully underrepresented (eg. drug information apps). MS needs to take the reins off developers, release some APIs, and let them run free. The developer community is THE driving force for any mobile ecosystem.
    11-12-2011 10:34 AM
  18. palandri's Avatar
    ...Where are the custom keyboards? Browser alternatives?...
    I hear you. I like Swype, and I'd like to see an alternative browser, but i doubt that we'll see them.. WP7 takes some time to get use to, but I like it.
    threed61 likes this.
    11-12-2011 10:43 AM
  19. Winterfang's Avatar
    I'm stuck in my contract till 2013 so who knows if WP7 will even exist by then.
    11-12-2011 11:48 AM
  20. icstars989's Avatar
    Whoever thinks "specs" are the reason that WP is not seeing top tier games is severely jaded. It all comes down to user base. If Im a developer, why would I waste all the time, energy, and resources on an OS that has only 5% marketshare?
    The Specs are fine on the OS, its not Android, it doesn't need low, mid and high end, and only way to differentiate between the 3 is....specs! WP is a highly refined OS which still zips along nicely on year old hardware.
    11-12-2011 12:05 PM
  21. Blacklac's Avatar
    Whoever thinks "specs" are the reason that WP is not seeing top tier games is severely jaded. It all comes down to user base. If Im a developer, why would I waste all the time, energy, and resources on an OS that has only 5% marketshare?
    The Specs are fine on the OS, its not Android, it doesn't need low, mid and high end, and only way to differentiate between the 3 is....specs! WP is a highly refined OS which still zips along nicely on year old hardware.
    This is exactly why. ;)
    11-12-2011 02:15 PM
  22. KingCrimson's Avatar
    Also it doesn't help that the marketing for WP7 is ultra lame compared to how iPhone gets advertised. Like that latest Samsung Focus S ad with those 2 ***** guys. If you notice Apple ads usually don't feature actors and if they do they don't talk. It's always something very touching. The only ad I've seen from Micrsoft that comes close is the "Kinect Effect" which I'm not sure is even ever going to be aired + it has the lame part of people playing "air instruments". That's just moronic.
    11-12-2011 07:05 PM
  23. littlesteelo16's Avatar
    I think seeing the huge advertising push that is happening now, the market share will increase, and the game support will get better. The Adreno 205 gpu is about the same as the one in the iPhone 4, so hardware isn't an issue. Also, the size of the marketing campaign being done by Nokia in Europe, especially the UK is ridiculous. They have basically taken over the media. Plus remember they are bringing the latest EA games to the platform.

    As someone who intends to buy a windows phone very soon, it definitely appeals to me, so the advertising is working. It doesn't matter what maxed out processor and gigs of ram they cram into an android device, it is still same old clunky, fragmented android. And no matter how good looking the iPhone 5 is, it will still have the same boring grid of apps and stale OS which I have poked through for the past 3 years. Wp7 is something fresh, and genuinely feels easy to use, unlike the competition.
    11-12-2011 07:16 PM
  24. KingCrimson's Avatar
    The market share won't increase if the ads are horrible like the ones I'm seeing right now. That latest Samsung Focus S ad features 2 douchebags who just sold me on the idea that only douchebags use a Windows Phone. Android at least tries to sell you on the idea that super-fantastic people use the Droid Bionic. Apple shows you normal people in their ads just demonstrating the most important apps.
    11-12-2011 07:17 PM
  25. icstars989's Avatar
    Also it doesn't help that the marketing for WP7 is ultra lame compared to how iPhone gets advertised. Like that latest Samsung Focus S ad with those 2 ***** guys. If you notice Apple ads usually don't feature actors and if they do they don't talk. It's always something very touching. The only ad I've seen from Micrsoft that comes close is the "Kinect Effect" which I'm not sure is even ever going to be aired + it has the lame part of people playing "air instruments". That's just moronic.
    Another good reason, for the most part MS advertising is nonexistent, and the ones they do have all deal with PC's, Kinect and Xbox. Thats great, but if you're serious about this OS and want to stay relavent, you need to focus on the phone. Introduce all those cool features via commercial later, once WP is on peoples minds. There's so much potential in OS I'd hate to see it just kinda fade away cause no one knows what it is.
    11-12-2011 07:18 PM
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