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11-26-2011 05:12 AM
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  1. nomoore's Avatar
    I'm in search of my next phone (currently own a BlackBerry + an Android tablet) and have been really looking hard at the HTC Radar 4G. I've played with it at the TMO store and am really liking it.

    I'm really wanting a smart phone that "just works" vs something like Android with all its fragmentation, force closes, and laggy UI. Plus, I'm really tired of the "pages of icons" UI that both Android and iOS have. I just have this feeling like WP7 is too good to be true, especially coming from MS. Did MS finally do something right?

    I guess I just would really like to see a good comprehensive comparison of Mango vs Android to make sure I will be happy and there aren't any glaring feature omissions or usability issues. Does anyone know if there is such a comparison?
    Last edited by nomoore; 11-14-2011 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Made title a question
    11-14-2011 03:15 PM
  2. baseballbert's Avatar
    Got to Phonedog.com and look for "why I awitched to WP from android."

    Mangos taste better than apples!
    anond likes this.
    11-14-2011 04:22 PM
  3. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    One weakness? Volume leveling (but that is more of my useage habits).

    Strengths? Ease of multitasking. While I wish there were more "multitasking panels," it's not a big complaint.
    11-14-2011 04:36 PM
  4. Big Supes's Avatar
    From everything you have said, Windows Phone is your friend. - It. Works. And, further more, it's fast, reliable, visually stunning, and generally just a pleasure to operate.

    The only weakness worth highlighting so far is the Marketplace is still playing 'catch-up' with the big boys. But, fear not; it's getting there as more devs are recognising the platform. The other thing is the limited storage space, but if 16GB is enough for you, then you have no problem.

    Hope this helps. :)
    11-14-2011 05:02 PM
  5. nomoore's Avatar
    One weakness? Volume leveling (but that is more of my useage habits).

    Strengths? Ease of multitasking. While I wish there were more "multitasking panels," it's not a big complaint.
    What do you mean by "volume leveling"?

    And yeah, I like the multitasking that I've seen so far. I don't really have that with my Android tablet. I never could find an app for that. That's one thing my blackberry does quite well, even if it is horribly slow.
    11-14-2011 06:30 PM
  6. nomoore's Avatar
    From everything you have said, Windows Phone is your friend. - It. Works. And, further more, it's fast, reliable, visually stunning, and generally just a pleasure to operate.

    The only weakness worth highlighting so far is the Marketplace is still playing 'catch-up' with the big boys. But, fear not; it's getting there as more devs are recognising the platform. The other thing is the limited storage space, but if 16GB is enough for you, then you have no problem.

    Hope this helps. :)
    Thanks for the reply. Yeah, the storage space is not an issue for me.
    11-14-2011 06:33 PM
  7. DaveGx's Avatar
    I think my main complaints are the lack of apps compared to the others, no real alternative browser like the Dolphin HD on Andriod (best mobile browser ever), and lack of free Navigation similar to Google Navigation.

    Im sure the apps will start coming fast and furious sooner or later though. Hopefully anyways and even perhaps an really good alternative to IE9. I dont mind it, but its so limited in options and once youve used something like Dolphin HD, its hard to get use to.

    And I really dont understand how MS, who owns Bing Maps, cant come out with a Navigation. I actually really like Bing Maps, and it would only make sense to provide a free Navigation app for it. I understand there are some paid ones out there, but again, when youve used an Android where you had a good free Navigation app, its just disappointing coming to WP7 where you have to pay a lot to get one.
    11-14-2011 06:53 PM
  8. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    What do you mean by "volume leveling"?

    [...]
    Specifically, I plug my phone into my car's stereo system (just use the 3.5mm jack).

    If I set the "main" volume to 20/30, and the phone to 10/10, the volume difference between the phone and music is unnoticeable (music pauses when phone call comes in, phone call punches out over stereo :D).

    However, Bing navigation is... (beyond the fact I have to tap it every time to get a vocal navigation prompt) almost inaudible. The biggest reason is the "main" volume controls the Music and Bing as a single volume setting. The lessor reason is I cannot set Bing to "speak up louder," at all.

    It is the SOLE reason I keepy my Atrix 4G, for these frequent, long, car trips.
    11-14-2011 07:31 PM
  9. Blacklac's Avatar
    One weakness? Volume leveling (but that is more of my useage habits).

    Strengths? Ease of multitasking. While I wish there were more "multitasking panels," it's not a big complaint.
    No offense, but WP multitasking is basically App switching, like iOS. Android, iOS and Blackberry all multitask as well as WP and even better. Blackberry has had mutltasking for years, and their Playbook has probably the most unlimited multitasking of any mobile device short of a tablet with a desktop OS.
    11-14-2011 07:34 PM
  10. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    No offense, but WP multitasking is basically App switching, like iOS. Android, iOS and Blackberry all multitask as well as WP and even better. Blackberry has had mutltasking for years, and their Playbook has probably the most unlimited multitasking of any mobile device short of a tablet with a desktop OS.
    IMO, only ios was comarible, but it lacked a back key for easy navigation. Android has a back key, but its locked into each application, and not as a general interface. Never liked BB RIM, nor their willingness to bend over to every other country's government and share data.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
    11-14-2011 07:42 PM
  11. Blacklac's Avatar
    ok, but what does that have to do with their multitasking capabilities?

    Not trying to start a platform war or anything. I just wouldnt say their "multitasking" is a strength. 2 of the 4 major platforms do it better and the other has the same implementation.

    Do you understand why governments want RIM encryption keys? Cause they cant get the data themselves. The reason they dont ask for anyone else's encryption keys is because no one else encrypts data like RIM. They go right to the carriers for anyone else's data, which they will give right to governments/authorities. Not really sure what that issue is, but its irrelevant anyways...
    Last edited by Blacklac; 11-14-2011 at 08:03 PM.
    jeremyshaw likes this.
    11-14-2011 07:52 PM
  12. kevm14's Avatar
    I don't understand why you'd want 7 programs executing code actively at once, on a phone. Without the screen res and physical real estate to actually interact with more than 1 program at once, why WOULDN'T you want to suspend it? Mango has allowances for certain types of things to actually multitask, which I think addresses the issue pretty well.
    starblade876 likes this.
    11-14-2011 07:55 PM
  13. N8ter's Avatar
    Who said they wanted 7?

    It would be nice to listen to music and Mac app in the background while I am in an IM app, though.

    One works well (music playback), the other simply doesn't especially if it's a third party app. You can do that on ios. You cannot do that on windows phone. It has the weakest multitasking out of all the major platforms.

    That being said. Some people don't even use navigation apps so that is a nonfactor to them.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    11-14-2011 08:19 PM
  14. Blacklac's Avatar
    Well, sure everyone might not need the capability, but its nice to have that one or two times you'd want it. You can play a youtube video or a podcast video, let it play in the background and continue to listen while you pop over and send an email/look something up on the web/etc. You can use either camera while doing basically anything. Say turn on the front facing camera while you show something to someone for some type of reaction clip or something. If you wanna check more out, just google some Playbook multitasking videos. Im not saying WP is bad or behind, just that multitasking isnt what id consider a strength comparatively. I know on the Playbook you can set whether Apps run in the background or all processes are used on the App on screen. Basically App switching.

    Edit: One pretty cool one is using the FFC for video chat, swipe the browser or anything else to the fro t and the camera will still record you and you can talk and listen while you do other things on screen. Also, you can play a video, with HDMI mirror it to a TV, lock the video to the HDMI out signal and do other things on your playbook screen without interrupting the video being output.
    Last edited by Blacklac; 11-14-2011 at 08:27 PM.
    11-14-2011 08:19 PM
  15. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    ok, but what does that have to do with their multitasking capabilities?

    Not trying to start a platform war or anything. I just wouldnt say their "multitasking" is a strength. 2 of the 4 major platforms do it better and the other has the same implementation.

    Do you understand why governments want RIM encryption keys? Cause they cant get the data themselves. The reason they dont ask for anyone else's encryption keys is because no one else encrypts data like RIM. They go right to the carriers for anyone else's data, which they will give right to governments/authorities. Not really sure what that issue is, but its irrelevant anyways...
    It has a LOT to do with their multitasking functionality. Part of Apple's UI design guides require a back button in the application design, which generally makes Android and iOS multitasking very similar*. Per application. Not across the entire user experience.

    If the government really wanted data easily, they should of banned VPNs alltogether, lol. But going after RIM = RIM not even in the books for where I work.


    * relative to WP7. Dunno about WebOS.
    11-14-2011 08:35 PM
  16. theefman's Avatar
    Who said they wanted 7?

    It would be nice to listen to music and Mac app in the background while I am in an IM app, though.

    One works well (music playback), the other simply doesn't especially if it's a third party app. You can do that on ios. You cannot do that on windows phone. It has the weakest multitasking out of all the major platforms.

    That being said. Some people don't even use navigation apps so that is a nonfactor to them.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    If the developer codes his application correctly any 3rd party application can take advantage of WP7's background agents, FAS, and running under lock. Dont blame the OS for inept developers. Then again, no surprise coming from you.
    11-14-2011 08:48 PM
  17. ryude's Avatar
    WP is locked down too tight, they need to allow more native code to be run. I want to be able to send texts while inside of another app. I want to be able to change my WiFi toggle without going through 4 pages of settings. Wouldn't it be nice to view mobile websites the same way that ios and android do? Instead of "view page directly", then "you are being redirected to..." just so I can see the freaking page I want to see.

    BTW, my focus rebooted 3 times in the last hour trying to use ...I'm a WP7 and a couple of games from the marketplace.
    11-14-2011 09:57 PM
  18. nomoore's Avatar
    It seemed to me like Jeremyshaw was talking about how easy it is to switch between apps that are open, not actually the new multitasking abilities of mango.

    Regardless, I've now read up on multitasking in mango and it is different than I thought. MS has taken the same approach as Apple and made only a limited API available for true multitasking. This helps keep battery life good so it is an acceptable tradeoff in my opinion.
    jeremyshaw likes this.
    11-14-2011 09:58 PM
  19. p.jgordon's Avatar
    WP is locked down too tight, they need to allow more native code to be run. I want to be able to send texts while inside of another app. I want to be able to change my WiFi toggle without going through 4 pages of settings.
    Check out the app called Network Dashboard. I'm using the trial version and it lets you pin to start WiFi settings and Mobile Data settings =)
    11-14-2011 10:35 PM
  20. kevm14's Avatar
    It seemed to me like Jeremyshaw was talking about how easy it is to switch between apps that are open, not actually the new multitasking abilities of mango.

    Regardless, I've now read up on multitasking in mango and it is different than I thought. MS has taken the same approach as Apple and made only a limited API available for true multitasking. This helps keep battery life good so it is an acceptable tradeoff in my opinion.
    Yeah. My first smartphone was WinMo and both WinMo and Android give a desktop-like experience as far as customization potential as well as multitasking. You know what I realized? I don't want or need that on a phone. Input capability is limited, the screen is small (they absolutely can't grow bigger than pocket size, that is a hard limit), I expect a certain battery life, etc.

    Getting the phone closer to a laptop doesn't make it a better phone. That is not a goal that should be pursued in my opinion.

    So I disagree with what I see from Android's approach to giving the phone computer-like resources. You don't throw more RAM and CPU at an ugly, inefficient OS...
    11-15-2011 05:56 AM
  21. Big Supes's Avatar
    Couldn't agree anymore. ^^

    Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express
    11-15-2011 06:48 AM
  22. Blacklac's Avatar
    So I disagree with what I see from Android's approach to giving the phone computer-like resources. You don't throw more RAM and CPU at an ugly, inefficient OS...
    But what if you could do it with a pretty, efficient OS? ;) Just cause a device has similar features to Android doesn't mean it has to execute like Android. Blackberry's new OS (on their Tablet) can multitask even better than Android and with 1GB RAM and a 1Ghz dual core (it also runs an Android runtime App in there too). There's no reason WP couldn't also with a bit more power than it has now. Just because its there doesn't mean you have to use it. Like I said before, you can disable background tasks on Blackberry's QNX OS.

    Not to offend (and not pointing to you individually here kevm) but I see some similar attitudes here that I've seen from iPhone users. If we dont have it, we dont need it. For multitasking, Flash, dual core phones, etc... I'm not saying WP DOES need all that, but I know I'd sure like those features. The ONLY reason I looked towards WP was because Blackberry couldn't give me a +4" phone and I hate iOS and dont want Android. While there are so many positives to WP and it looks just beautiful ( I think a nicely designed WP App holding to the basic Metro style has the nicest look of ANY platform), there are surely downsides. I have a tablet that can multitask and has Flash and powerful hardware, so its not quite a big of deal to me. However, I'd love Flash, true multitasking and even more power. So... it is what it is. People will just decide what is more important to them. Considering high end Android phones aren't a whole lot more than Mango phones, I dont really believe the added hardware would add too much cost. Plus, you dont always have to get the top of the line phone if you dont want to pay the premium.

    I dont want to beat a dead horse so I'll leave it at that. :)
    Last edited by Blacklac; 11-15-2011 at 11:57 AM.
    11-15-2011 11:45 AM
  23. Forgewizard's Avatar
    What is multitasking anyways? How many things at once does the phone need to do? I can listen to music, have the wi fi on, surf the web using Surf Cube, get text notices and send replies (which means using the keyboard too), have the phone radio on, be charging the device and when surfing I've connected to you tube videos, the phone automatically pauses the music so the video can be heard and as soon as the video stops the music restarts - I didn't have to touch any music controls; I turn the phone and the screen rotates - all of this happening at the same time! Sounds like decent multi-tasking to me!

    No lagging, no "too many cards" notices, no screen freezes, no rebooting needed!

    And before people fuss about having to dive deep into the settings why don't they peruse the marketplace? Seems to me that people aren't doing their own homework before they start fussing about a new device.

    There are nice apps designed to enhance the WP 7 and offer what an individual may want. I use "connectivity shortcuts" and pin the tiles I want. "Stop the music" app offers a button to shut off the music and exit the music instead of just pause it ( so I don't have to restart the phone to completely exit the music - weird from MS - but still a personal way that suits me.

    It takes a little time to really learn each of these devices. I doubt I fully learned my Palm Pre. I keep reading this and other forums and each time has shown me something new. Even reading the help topics has offered me new tips.

    I guarantee that MY WP7 phone isnt set up the same way others are, because I don't use it the same way they do all the time. I've never had an Android oran Apple phone, but have tried them multiple times in demo units and even browsed their forums. To me they just didn't seem very smooth or intuitive and they seem cluttered. Maybe because I used Palm for all those years, I enjoyed simplicity. The ventures into WinMo weren't successful - but from the first play time with a demo WP 7 I was hooked!

    I wish that people really would learn more about the device in their hands before they start saying it is sub-par or that Apple and Android are far better.
    11-18-2011 02:07 AM
  24. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    I don't think anyone stated Android or iOS is better in every way. Just certain aspects are better executed. On an OS that is designed to reduce uneccessary screen presses, why not a quick toggle for WiFi and Bluetooth? It's probably one of the largest things I miss out of Android. Even unjailbroken iOS devices can do the same, now. It's not even about power saving for me, it's about stopping my phone from tyring to go out with every restaraunt's and store's wifi point, and preventing the BT speaker in my car from trying to take over a conversation... while I'm at home (yes, it's range is INSANE, though home is small). Things that should not take more time to toggle status then they do now.

    As for pausing music, I just use the volume keys, which bring up a quick music control panel :)
    11-18-2011 02:37 AM
  25. N8ter's Avatar
    Its sub par and Android and IOS are better. I use them all every day and you don't have to be a fan of anything to see what's obvious. I'm way more productive on those devices than on WP and the hardware is clearly superior. That's what matters. Looks are secondary.

    Saying an OS doesn't need more than its given doesn't make the hardware less bad, so I'm wondering when people will stop using that excuse. Nexus s was the reference phone for Android and it is single core with 512 Mb RAM. Android does not "need" uber specs to run, but why would you "upgrade" to a phone whose hardware is at best marginally better than what yo have. To support the cause? Or maybe cause wave one devices were crippled in design to accommodate a beta OS which didn't have support for relatively commodity hardware when it was released?

    Thx but nothx. Even apple new better than to just *** a few hundred MHz clock speed. People with a clue know there's more to processor quality than raw **** speed and dual cored have not so obvious benefits that you don't get with a single core.

    Nevermind those GPUs Re terrible by today's standards.

    And I was urged to post mostly by the disgusting last sentence in your post. I wish you would, too.

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    ryude likes this.
    11-18-2011 02:53 AM
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