12-15-2011 05:39 AM
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  1. EAA575's Avatar
    Excellent article. And yes, when I say Windows 8 kernel, I do mean Windows NT.



    I see the possibility of current devices running full blown WP8 even after a kernel switch. But it would break any apps that use some sort of native code access. Like what some of the carriers and manufacturers have released. So it wouldn't really be an update. It would be a full replacement.
    They're gonna have to update those apps before WP8 is released lol. I agree, it would be a replacement but also an improvement.

    Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express
    12-04-2011 07:04 PM
  2. Reflexx's Avatar
    "WP8 is likely to have its own set of minimum system specs.

    But I would guess that there would be some sort of update that adds in similar functionality. It's my guess that WP7 and WP8 will simultaneously exist in the market for a while."

    What you're saying is that there will be wp8 and wp7 that has exactly the same features but different code, and can't run most wp8 apps lol..

    Sorry but I definitely dont agree, and hope Microsoft is smarter than to start down that sort of road
    Start down what sort of road?

    It's called a transition. The kernel used in WP7 isn't ideal for future growth. Once that is changed, the transition is done. WP9 will not have the same issues because it will be updating from an OS that is based off of the same kernel.

    And what would be wrong with continuing to sell WP7 devices for the next few years as economy smart phones? Why is that "stupid?" Because I'm beginning to think that you're trying to insult me.

    You make the mistake of thinking that the process I'm outlining would be the process for all future updates. But that is not the case.

    If MS really does have grand plans of integrating multiple platforms, then the transition to a common core does have to happen some time. Whether it happens for WP8 or WP9 is the question. But it will almost certainly be at a x.0 release because it is more than just an update.

    What I'd like to hear from you is a well thought out argument about how you believe such a major transition should take place. And in a way that is technologically feasible while also moving the platform and the whole ecosystem forward.

    Calling a transition stupid without detailing a better alternative comes across as a little whiney.
    12-04-2011 07:07 PM
  3. fisci's Avatar
    Start down what sort of road?

    It's called a transition. The kernel used in WP7 isn't ideal for future growth. Once that is changed, the transition is done. WP9 will not have the same issues because it will be updating from an OS that is based off of the same kernel.

    And what would be wrong with continuing to sell WP7 devices for the next few years as economy smart phones? Why is that "stupid?" Because I'm beginning to think that you're trying to insult me.

    You make the mistake of thinking that the process I'm outlining would be the process for all future updates. But that is not the case.

    If MS really does have grand plans of integrating multiple platforms, then the transition to a common core does have to happen some time. Whether it happens for WP8 or WP9 is the question. But it will almost certainly be at a x.0 release because it is more than just an update.

    What I'd like to hear from you is a well thought out argument about how you believe such a major transition should take place. And in a way that is technologically feasible while also moving the platform and the whole ecosystem forward.

    Calling a transition stupid without detailing a better alternative comes across as a little whiney.
    it isn't whiney because I dont share the same opinion as you, you're the one who is being insulting.

    I'm simply saying that after a huge transition (windows mobile to windows phone 7), I don't think that having another major transition is a great idea.

    Why alienate the fanbase you have further?

    If they do what you're saying, and still update older devices then sure..

    You were saying that you didn't think they would and my opinion was that that would be a mistake.
    12-04-2011 07:36 PM
  4. Reflexx's Avatar
    I didn't say that disagreement was whiney. It seemed whiney when the disagreement contained disparaging remarks about my opinion without giving an alternative analysis on how to achieve the goal of a unified platform. Or at least an argument against a unified platform.
    12-05-2011 08:26 AM
  5. lumic's Avatar
    Majority of apps do not need a ridiculous hardware spec to run, what makes you think it will be logical to split the platform? Also, what feature do you see added to the operating system that would be not be able to run on launch hardware, or that couldn't be simply limited for launch devices?

    All I see Windows Phone doing is upgrading to Windows CE 7, which will be necessary anyhow if they wish to bring dual-core devices as promised.
    aubreyq likes this.
    12-06-2011 02:45 AM
  6. EAA575's Avatar
    Majority of apps do not need a ridiculous hardware spec to run, what makes you think it will be logical to split the platform? Also, what feature do you see added to the operating system that would be not be able to run on launch hardware, or that couldn't be simply limited for launch devices?

    All I see Windows Phone doing is upgrading to Windows CE 7, which will be necessary anyhow if they wish to bring dual-core devices as promised.
    I doubt they'll still use CE. Check the article I posted earlier :P

    Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express
    12-06-2011 03:42 AM
  7. Reflexx's Avatar
    Majority of apps do not need a ridiculous hardware spec to run, what makes you think it will be logical to split the platform? Also, what feature do you see added to the operating system that would be not be able to run on launch hardware, or that couldn't be simply limited for launch devices?

    All I see Windows Phone doing is upgrading to Windows CE 7, which will be necessary anyhow if they wish to bring dual-core devices as promised.
    I believe a future version of this OS will have radically different underlying code. Mainly to make it easier to unify Windows across all platforms. Not necessarily the same OS running, but the same base upon which it is built. The same foundation. That way, the same or similar code could be used cross-platform without having to go the managed code route.

    Windows8 Metro Style Apps use something that is a little different. It's like managed code, but at the same time, it is very powerful and has direct API access to core functions. It also allows devs the ease of choosing from multiple programming languages and still accessing the same code libraries. You could make an app using C++, C#, or Javascript and it will all access the same libraries and run at the same speed.

    It makes sense that they'd want to bring that development environment to the mobile phone platform. It would greatly increase the pool of developers that could make apps. And those new apps could be quite complex, but still fast.
    12-06-2011 08:48 AM
  8. drg's Avatar
    i would be quite happy if MS didn't deploy WP8 to all phones if it believes the specs won't be good enough. My wife had an iPhone 3g and each time it got updated the phone ran slower and slower. She know has a Radar with WP7 and i'd hate her to go through the same thing if updates continually get pushed to all models and the older models start to lag. So I'd be more than happy if at some point MS say "sorry, you don't get this update because your phone is too old" but you'd expect that to happen once the phone is over 2 years when most people are happy to upgrade. But then again MS seem to be doing an awesome job applying updates to all models and achieving better performance so we may not have to worry about this problem for another 2 or 3 versions down the track at which point our phones most likely would have died or been lost or stolen and we already all have 2nd and 3rd gen phones.
    12-06-2011 11:09 PM
  9. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    Yup. I agree. If the most major recent update drops off 3 year old phones, I'd be perfectly fine. (2 years contract + one year before new phones come out makes a max possbile 3 years in my theoretical situation).
    12-06-2011 11:50 PM
  10. Kahuna Cowboy's Avatar
    how does that make any sense?

    IOS 5 runs on iPhone 3gs, 4 and 4s...

    They all have different specs.

    How would it running on all devices be fragmentation, that line of thought is hilariously flawed
    Yes but the original iPhone's last update was iOS 3.1.3. The iPhone 3G's last iOS update was 4.2.1.

    Eventually the software will evolve past a point older hardware cannot manage. However, being all the WP handsets are all pretty uniform in terms of 1Ghz or above single core processors and similar RAM and resolutions there is no reason the next WP update should not include 1st gen Windows Phones.
    12-07-2011 02:01 AM
  11. SilverCha0s's Avatar
    Yes but the original iPhone's last update was iOS 3.1.3. The iPhone 3G's last iOS update was 4.2.1.

    Eventually the software will evolve past a point older hardware cannot manage. However, being all the WP handsets are all pretty uniform in terms of 1Ghz or above single core processors and similar RAM and resolutions there is no reason the next WP update should not include 1st gen Windows Phones.
    Agreed. I am pretty confident microsoft have that in mind
    12-07-2011 03:22 AM
  12. fisci's Avatar
    Yes but the original iPhone's last update was iOS 3.1.3. The iPhone 3G's last iOS update was 4.2.1.

    Eventually the software will evolve past a point older hardware cannot manage. However, being all the WP handsets are all pretty uniform in terms of 1Ghz or above single core processors and similar RAM and resolutions there is no reason the next WP update should not include 1st gen Windows Phones.
    you have to look at the age of devices imo..

    I feel like devices should get full support for at least two years, and most wp7 devices are only about a year old.
    I dont expect updates forever but I feel like at least Apollo should go out to all devices. I had enough **** with android phones and getting no support after only a few months
    12-07-2011 03:40 AM
  13. SilverCha0s's Avatar
    Hopefully Microsoft won't forget about us!!

    Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
    12-08-2011 02:16 AM
  14. N8ter's Avatar
    how does that make any sense?

    IOS 5 runs on iPhone 3gs, 4 and 4s...

    They all have different specs.

    How would it running on all devices be fragmentation, that line of thought is hilariously flawed
    But those devices iOS5 versions aren't all on feature parity with each other. They bascially each have their own build of iOS5. The version of iOS4 and 5 that went to the 3GS was limited compared to what was sent to the iPhone 4/4S.

    Fragmentation has never been a big problem with Apple devices because they do not flood the market with so many differing hardware configurations. An iPhone model is always relavant for 2 years or more, so developers basically have to support it or their app sales will suffer tremendously in the second year of that model's lifetime (when it becomes mid-range and the price drops in the carrier stores).
    12-08-2011 04:34 PM
  15. fisci's Avatar
    But those devices iOS5 versions aren't all on feature parity with each other. They bascially each have their own build of iOS5. The version of iOS4 and 5 that went to the 3GS was limited compared to what was sent to the iPhone 4/4S.

    Fragmentation has never been a big problem with Apple devices because they do not flood the market with so many differing hardware configurations. An iPhone model is always relavant for 2 years or more, so developers basically have to support it or their app sales will suffer tremendously in the second year of that model's lifetime (when it becomes mid-range and the price drops in the carrier stores).
    limited in what regard?

    it didn't have siri? Lol
    12-09-2011 03:31 PM
  16. N8ter's Avatar
    I'll give you a few obvious examples. Background GPS services do not function on the iPhone 3GS and the iPod Touch 4 doesn't have a GPS or Cell Radio so its build gets rid of all that code (Phone Dialer, etc.). That is why software like Vlingo never supported Messaging on the iTouch. It never had a Native Messaging app until iOS5 (and then only can be used for iMessages since it's not a phone).

    The builds differ. Apple doesn't just bloat up the devices with code that is useless in them. They tailor each build to the device.

    Siri has nothing to do with it. That's a software component they chose to make optional for the 4S because they can. The Hardware bump in the 4S is good enough to warrant an upgrade for anyone who preferred a better device.
    12-09-2011 04:54 PM
  17. baseballbert's Avatar
    As long as they are dual core....
    12-09-2011 10:59 PM
  18. fisci's Avatar
    I'll give you a few obvious examples. Background GPS services do not function on the iPhone 3GS and the iPod Touch 4 doesn't have a GPS or Cell Radio so its build gets rid of all that code (Phone Dialer, etc.). That is why software like Vlingo never supported Messaging on the iTouch. It never had a Native Messaging app until iOS5 (and then only can be used for iMessages since it's not a phone).

    The builds differ. Apple doesn't just bloat up the devices with code that is useless in them. They tailor each build to the device.

    Siri has nothing to do with it. That's a software component they chose to make optional for the 4S because they can. The Hardware bump in the 4S is good enough to warrant an upgrade for anyone who preferred a better device.
    we're talking about phones here, not iPod touches.

    Obvbiously an mp3 player isn't going to have the same build as a mobile phone....
    12-10-2011 09:52 AM
  19. Kid251822's Avatar
    I don't really want to stop the debate,but I have some more queries...
    1. Speech for WP7, on the website says it's available for a list of limited countries...have they updated the locations to show more countries or are they still restricted to the ones mentioned? (Ie. Is India now included?)
    2. The Zune sign up sets the default language as Hindi for India with no option for English...what do I do?
    12-14-2011 09:10 AM
  20. Big Supes's Avatar
    we're talking about phones here, not iPod touches.

    Obvbiously an mp3 player isn't going to have the same build as a mobile phone....
    This.
    12-15-2011 05:39 AM
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