1. selfcreation's Avatar
    did you guys here the news!!!!

    MS announced that they may be giving NATIVE access to WP for developers....

    WOOT BABY!!! , Unreal tournament Engine any one!?!?!?! :D:D:D

    still a rumor , but i hope they do this... gona give soo much more flexibility to the OS.


    does this sound like good news OR WHAT?!?!?!

    Microsoft allowing high profile apps to use native code. Does this open the way for Unreal Development Kit games? | WMPoweruser

    its also mentioned in the * MONDAY MORNING Mobile Nation Briefing*
    12-05-2011 02:22 PM
  2. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Yes! Maybe devs will fix the god aweful notifications system :). Screw the games, well I want better games too. LOL.
    12-05-2011 02:24 PM
  3. btbam91's Avatar
    What exactly does this mean?
    12-05-2011 02:24 PM
  4. selfcreation's Avatar
    this means.

    Better games , better apps , better ecosystem ( better cross plat forming )

    BETTER BETTER BETTER ..

    basically giving Developers more access to the CORE programming of the phone aside from the strict minimum....

    i cant really go more into details cause im not sure what it does EXCALY .. someting to do with using Other Engines aside from Silverlight and XNA to make apps/games

    all i know for sure is that its gona open ALLOT OF DOORS!!!

    check out the article
    12-05-2011 02:28 PM
  5. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    Clearification:

    Native code != core system access. iOS has native code, and has had it since day 1 for devs. Yet, you will NOT see an application to change the home screen, notification bar, etc, etc.


    Native code = can directly target machine ISA, instead of utilizing JIT or high level managed code (almost scripting) like C# (currently only option for WP7 apps/games). Performance benefits can be gained, and often are. However, this will require all ISA are the same or have compat. Luckily for MS, ARMv7 is rather prevalent.
    12-05-2011 02:39 PM
  6. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    With native access, they can't place their own notifications on the home screen and what not? Well fudge.
    Clearification:

    Native code != core system access. iOS has native code, and has had it since day 1 for devs. Yet, you will NOT see an application to change the home screen, notification bar, etc, etc.


    Native code = can directly target machine ISA, instead of utilizing JIT or high level managed code (almost scripting) like C# (currently only option for WP7 apps/games). Performance benefits can be gained, and often are. However, this will require all ISA are the same or have compat. Luckily for MS, ARMv7 is rather prevalent.
    12-05-2011 02:42 PM
  7. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    Okay, now that I have actually read the article.... it's pure speculation. Not even an ounce of support. We already know MS allows some devs to use native code, just like some devs (mainly first party) are allowed to utilize double wide live tiles.

    I would stipulate it's likely MS will still with the current way of order for most developers, in order for devs to have (forced?) easy access to Metro UI tools. Maybe with Apollo, will this change, however, I don't see that happening sooner than that. Just IMO.
    12-05-2011 02:47 PM
  8. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    With native access, they can't place their own notifications on the home screen and what not? Well fudge.
    I should clarify: without jailbreak, we don't see that on iOS :P
    12-05-2011 02:48 PM
  9. Big Supes's Avatar
    Kinda how I am reading through this thread. . .



    :D
    12-05-2011 02:49 PM
  10. Blacklac's Avatar
    Clearification:

    Native code != core system access. iOS has native code, and has had it since day 1 for devs. Yet, you will NOT see an application to change the home screen, notification bar, etc, etc.


    Native code = can directly target machine ISA, instead of utilizing JIT or high level managed code (almost scripting) like C# (currently only option for WP7 apps/games). Performance benefits can be gained, and often are. However, this will require all ISA are the same or have compat. Luckily for MS, ARMv7 is rather prevalent.
    The beta NDK for the iPhone OS/iOS was released almost a year after the first iPhone, actually. :)
    jeremyshaw likes this.
    12-05-2011 02:53 PM
  11. selfcreation's Avatar
    Okay, now that I have actually read the article.... it's pure speculation. Not even an ounce of support. We already know MS allows some devs to use native code, just like some devs (mainly first party) are allowed to utilize double wide live tiles.

    I would stipulate it's likely MS will still with the current way of order for most developers, in order for devs to have (forced?) easy access to Metro UI tools. Maybe with Apollo, will this change, however, I don't see that happening sooner than that. Just IMO.
    liek i said its just a RUMOR , but allot of reliable sources all over the WEB are saying that MS might open it up more for future Engines ....

    hopefully they do , and i seee NO reason why they wouldn't , it would actually be a bad Idea not to do it.
    jeremyshaw likes this.
    12-05-2011 02:57 PM
  12. pseudoware's Avatar
    A step in the right direction if true, for sure, but I still envision access to a limited set if APIs. This will attract more devs, however, which is good. Many who wouldn't previously consider developing for the platform.

    Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G using Tapatalk
    jeremyshaw likes this.
    12-05-2011 03:01 PM
  13. selfcreation's Avatar
    yeah i can see for sure MS still blocking allot doh ( they REALLY dont want jailbtoken WPs)

    but getting access to the Unreal Development Kit and Unity3D is enough to bring ALLOT more developers to the platform , and i thinks that's KEY here.
    12-05-2011 03:31 PM
  14. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    A step in the right direction if true, for sure, but I still envision access to a limited set if APIs. This will attract more devs, however, which is good. Many who wouldn't previously consider developing for the platform.

    Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G using Tapatalk
    I agree. Though, IMO, MS platform dev tools are doing the main work already :P I mean, it surely isn't the WP7 marketshare that's already pushed WP7 to 40k applications :lol:
    yeah i can see for sure MS still blocking allot doh ( they REALLY dont want jailbtoken WPs)

    but getting access to the Unreal Development Kit and Unity3D is enough to bring ALLOT more developers to the platform , and i thinks that's KEY here.
    Yup. Unity already turned down the WP7 playform "this time around" because of no Native API access. It would of meant they would need to develop their engine all over again, using XNA code...

    Though as for cheveron unlocking... and interop, I don't think MS has said no to them. Just nobody seems to do it for UI mods, just enabling tethering.
    12-05-2011 03:36 PM
  15. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't think we're going to see any game engines until WP8.

    The way Nokia talks about how you won't see big changes until Apollo leads me to believe that Apollo is going to be different at the core. Otherwise, Nokia would start implementing their big changes already.

    Allowing too much native code access (like would be required for a game engine) would be a mistake if there is going to be a fundamental change under the hood. Because any game made with that engine would suddenly stop working with the next version of the OS.
    12-05-2011 03:49 PM
  16. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    I don't think we're going to see any game engines until WP8.

    The way Nokia talks about how you won't see big changes until Apollo leads me to believe that Apollo is going to be different at the core. Otherwise, Nokia would start implementing their big changes already.

    Allowing too much native code access (like would be required for a game engine) would be a mistake if there is going to be a fundamental change under the hood. Because any game made with that engine would suddenly stop working with the next version of the OS.
    Very interesting. Also, the managed coding that effectively required for most apps makes it possible to enable WP7 apps to work on Apollo.
    12-05-2011 04:15 PM
  17. Reflexx's Avatar
    Very interesting. Also, the managed coding that effectively required for most apps makes it possible to enable WP7 apps to work on Apollo.
    Yup. They could make a bunch of changes under the hood. And as long as they make the new version of the OS run XNA and Silverlight, then the apps will still work.

    I think that when MS says all this stuff about managed code being mandatory because of security, they're only telling half the story. I think that they've known all along that the core code is going to undergo some major changes. And they didn't want anyone having direct access to something that will change.

    This is actually similar to something Unity has done in their own game engine. They don't give full API access by default to their terrain engine. Even though that's something that developers have been clamoring for. They don't like their terrain engine, and they plan on rewriting the whole thing. And they don't want to give access to things that may change. So instead, they have a pretty sparse API available for devs to access. This API is small enough for them to be able to mimic it in any future implementation of their terrain engine.
    12-05-2011 04:26 PM
  18. canesfan625's Avatar
    This seems unlikely. Native code opens all new security concerns and it seems that this could pose interoperability issues if they do their kernel swap.
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 12-06-2011 at 07:57 AM.
    12-06-2011 07:33 AM
  19. Joelist's Avatar
    Native code is in part a Chimera. This is because coding in dotnet runs natively after the first time it is run anyway - the CLR converts everything to machine language on the initial run of the application. So write in dotnet and you get native style hardware speed - you just don't get full access.
    12-06-2011 10:50 AM
  20. cedarlog's Avatar
    some people say it might affect the stability of the OS i don't know if its true
    12-06-2011 12:15 PM
  21. selfcreation's Avatar
    some people say it might affect the stability of the OS i don't know if its true
    thats because they assume that NATIVE coding access will turn WP into an Android phone. lol

    and people al;so assume that giving Native access means they have access to everything witch they wont..

    MS will still block ALLOT of things... this would just give more flexibility to the DEVELOPERS
    cedarlog likes this.
    12-06-2011 01:09 PM
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