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  1. GekkoAce's Avatar
    I have been frustrated the last few days with the crazyness MS has created with this ecosystem. Here's some things I've experienced:

    I signed my parents up for Live.com email account to use on their new WP7's. You are forced to setup a second account for Xbox/Marketplace.
    I mistyped one of their Marketplace names, and in order to correct the mistake I had to pay $10 and talk to a confused tech person on the phone that only knew anything about Xbox's.
    I also found out and was warned by the customer service supervisor (who was much more helpful) that you are not allowed to use the same name on <name>@live.com and the Marketplace.

    This morning I clicked on a MS add for "Bing Music" which had nothing on the site about Zune. When I clicked on a track finally I saw a Zune logo.

    I enjoy using Windows Media Center to play movies from my computer over the home network, but that is also a broken experience. It's not easy to setup, it often disconnects during the movie, and I thought MS was moving away from apps. Why am I opening up an app to stream my movies on Xbox? It should be built in and much more user friendly.

    In my perfect world I would setup one Live ID and have access to everything MS has to offer without a second account.
    I would be limited to changing my account name to once every <some timeframe>, and it would be FREE.
    The Zune branding should go away. The general public either dislikes or doesn't know what Zune is. It should all be Live and Bing branding.
    My Xbox should be so tightly integrated that I should be able to recommend to my older parents that they buy an Xbox to enhance their Windows and Phone experience. It should be so simple to setup that even they can enjoy it. (If it was as easy to connect my PC's media as it was to setup my WP Xbox Companion that would be a huge step in the right direction).

    I had to get this out. I love my PC, Xbox, Zune, and WP7 as separate devices, but this ecosystem needs some serious work...
    12-18-2011 09:19 AM
  2. fisci's Avatar
    I never had to set up two separate accounts..

    I used my old hotmail account for everything. I'm not sure what you're doing here
    12-18-2011 09:35 AM
  3. GekkoAce's Avatar
    I never had to set up two separate accounts..

    I used my old hotmail account for everything. I'm not sure what you're doing here
    Your gamertag/zune ID is separate from your Live ID. They shouldn't be the same, it doesn't prevent you from doing it, but you risk a forced name if Microsoft notices.

    For example. My email address might be <name1>@live.com and my gamertag/zune ID might be <name2>. But MS terms of service prohibit me from making my gamertag and Live ID the same.
    I understand some people might want different gamertags from their Live ID's, but it should be a choice. It's confusing for someone like my older parents.
    12-18-2011 10:07 AM
  4. GekkoAce's Avatar
    I use the same name on my Live and gamertag, but on my phone call yesterday to Microsoft I was warned by the supervisor I would eventually get caught and notified.
    12-18-2011 10:16 AM
  5. MadGaffler's Avatar
    that doesn't sound right.....I know for a fact that my live ID is the same as my gamertag. Why didnt you just make them a new gamertag or ID?
    12-18-2011 10:30 AM
  6. GekkoAce's Avatar
    that doesn't sound right.....I know for a fact that my live ID is the same as my gamertag. Why didnt you just make them a new gamertag or ID?
    I understand a lot of people do it, however, it is against the MS terms of service. There's no automatic mechanism to prevent you from doing it, but anyone who uses same Live ID and Gamertag may be forced to change if MS decides to pay attention. They don't seem to be enforcing it lately. I think they should encourage people to use the same names.
    12-18-2011 10:52 AM
  7. J4rrod's Avatar
    Gekkoace, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I have one Live ID that I use for my Zune Music Pass, my Xbox Live Gamertag, my Hotmail, my SkyDrive, etc. It's not against any terms of service. That's why anytime you sign into anything MS they ask you for your Live ID. I would recommend hard resetting your parents' Windows Phones and using one Live ID to setup everything on each phone (not the same ID on both phones of course).

    Sent from my Samsung Focus S using Board Express.
    12-18-2011 11:03 AM
  8. Luisraul924's Avatar
    I am in agreement with everyone else here. My Live ID is used for Zune, Xbox, Windows Phone and everything else Microsoft in general.
    12-18-2011 11:15 AM
  9. justop26's Avatar
    Gekkoace, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I have one Live ID that I use for my Zune Music Pass, my Xbox Live Gamertag, my Hotmail, my SkyDrive, etc. It's not against any terms of service. That's why anytime you sign into anything MS they ask you for your Live ID. I would recommend hard resetting your parents' Windows Phones and using one Live ID to setup everything on each phone (not the same ID on both phones of course).

    Sent from my Samsung Focus S using Board Express.
    +1

    It's been the same name I've used with Microsoft for more than a decade. That's the whole point, for it to be unified.
    12-18-2011 11:15 AM
  10. GekkoAce's Avatar
    Gekkoace, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I have one Live ID that I use for my Zune Music Pass, my Xbox Live Gamertag, my Hotmail, my SkyDrive, etc. It's not against any terms of service. That's why anytime you sign into anything MS they ask you for your Live ID. I would recommend hard resetting your parents' Windows Phones and using one Live ID to setup everything on each phone (not the same ID on both phones of course).

    Sent from my Samsung Focus S using Board Express.
    Yes.. You sign in with whatever email address you give them when you sign up. It doesn't even have to be a Live/Hotmail email address. HOWEVER the displayed gamertag is different.
    You might sign is as "myname@hotmail.com" and your gamertag might display as "superdude", however, Microsoft discourages (but doesn't currently prevent) you from having the gamertag "myname." and according to their ToS they may ask you to change it if your gamertag matches your email.

    Anyway, this is a minor piece of the whole issue I have. It's not isolated. Microsoft's different devices don't work together easily and seamlessly that I can recommend to a non-techy person like my older parents.
    Last edited by gekkoace; 12-18-2011 at 11:26 AM.
    12-18-2011 11:17 AM
  11. Gorki247's Avatar
    Of course, it makes sense that the actual name bit of the Live ID is different from your gamertag if only for security reasons. But that is irrelevant as you use the ID for sign in everywhere; so I'm not sure how it would confuse your parents as they really wouldn't need use the gamertag at all.
    12-18-2011 11:22 AM
  12. GekkoAce's Avatar
    Of course, it makes sense that the actual name bit of the Live ID is different from your gamertag if only for security reasons. But that is irrelevant as you use the ID for sign in everywhere; so I'm not sure how it would confuse your parents as they really wouldn't need use the gamertag at all.
    Because my step-mom (an older lady that loves to play touch based games on her phone) couldn't understand why she was seeing a gamertag that wasn't the same as her email name.

    And you're right, security is the reason the MS Tech rep used for discouraging gamertags from matching the email used to login.
    12-18-2011 11:30 AM
  13. Gorki247's Avatar
    So you can see the reasoning for them being different, right? And I'm sure once you explained it to your parents, they understood the concept; it's very much like a real name and nickname. It makes perfect sense and hardly a reason to call it a broken experience.
    12-18-2011 11:41 AM
  14. GekkoAce's Avatar
    So you can see the reasoning for them being different, right? And I'm sure once you explained it to your parents, they understood the concept; it's very much like a real name and nickname. It makes perfect sense and hardly a reason to call it a broken experience.
    No, I don't understand how keeping my login email name a secret provides security. You all know that I sign in here with the name GekkoAce, but I'm no less secure because of it. You could probably take the leap that my email is also GekkoAce@something.com, but I'm still no less secure because of it.
    In fact, some ways maybe it's less secure. If I'm forced to pick a differant gamertag, that means someone else is allowed to use my Live login as their gamertag. They could easily impersonate being me to my friends and family.

    Like I said before. It should be an option to have it different, but not a rule.
    12-18-2011 11:45 AM
  15. fisci's Avatar
    Somebody needs some cheese with their whine
    12-18-2011 12:35 PM
  16. J4rrod's Avatar
    Ok, first of all, why in God's name would you want your Gamertag to be the same as your Live ID? Secondly, you can make it the same if you so please, so wtf is the problem? Thirdly, if you call Xbox and Office integration with WP7, Xbox and WP7 integration with Windows 8, Zune integration integration with WP7 & Xbox, etc. non-seamless, then you'll never be pleased. I have never in my life heard a complaint like this.

    Sent from my Samsung Focus S using Board Express.
    fisci likes this.
    12-18-2011 01:20 PM
  17. GekkoAce's Avatar
    Ok, first of all, why in God's name would you want your Gamertag to be the same as your Live ID? Secondly, you can make it the same if you so please, so wtf is the problem? Thirdly, if you call Xbox and Office integration with WP7, Xbox and WP7 integration with Windows 8, Zune integration integration with WP7 & Xbox, etc. non-seamless, then you'll never be pleased. I have never in my life heard a complaint like this.

    Sent from my Samsung Focus S using Board Express.
    Before the companion app (which just came out and is still buggy v1.0), there was zero integration between xbox and wp7. I still can't stream from my phone to my TV through my Xbox.
    Media integration between PC and Xbox still sucks (In my opinion, almost unusable for most non tech people)

    About the only things that are Seamless is the Zune to/from WP, WP to Skydrive, and Office docs saved on Skydrive.

    Besides that, it's pretty much each platform standing on its own. Just because they slap "Xbox Live" banners on some WP apps doesn't mean there's anything that integrates them with Xbox. Maybe one or two Xbox Live games have shared points (like Fullhouse Poker). Kinectimals is a good example of a failed "seamless" experience.

    The experiences should be simple and seem like the flow together. I should be able to give an Xbox to a Windows Phone/PC user and they should with almost no learning curve see the value added. What value added is it to give my parents an Xbox now that they are WP7 users?
    Last edited by gekkoace; 12-18-2011 at 01:42 PM.
    12-18-2011 01:28 PM
  18. J4rrod's Avatar
    What's the value? Unless they're gamers, then none worth talking about. Now, if they were gamers and already had an Xbox, giving them a WP7 would add plenty of value via Companion, Achievements, and overalll integration, but apparently Achievements on WP isn't integration to you, right?

    And if someone can't go on their Xbox, go to music, then follow basic instructions to stream from their PC, then that's sad.
    12-18-2011 06:28 PM
  19. ibuyufo's Avatar
    You can't really trash talk if people knew your email, can you?
    12-23-2011 12:31 AM
  20. fifthGear's Avatar
    Before the companion app (which just came out and is still buggy v1.0), there was zero integration between xbox and wp7. I still can't stream from my phone to my TV through my Xbox.
    Media integration between PC and Xbox still sucks (In my opinion, almost unusable for most non tech people)

    About the only things that are Seamless is the Zune to/from WP, WP to Skydrive, and Office docs saved on Skydrive.

    Besides that, it's pretty much each platform standing on its own. Just because they slap "Xbox Live" banners on some WP apps doesn't mean there's anything that integrates them with Xbox. Maybe one or two Xbox Live games have shared points (like Fullhouse Poker). Kinectimals is a good example of a failed "seamless" experience.

    The experiences should be simple and seem like the flow together. I should be able to give an Xbox to a Windows Phone/PC user and they should with almost no learning curve see the value added. What value added is it to give my parents an Xbox now that they are WP7 users?

    Perhaps you should become a software developer yourself. Then you could implement your dream ecosystem and make a clean fortune. Software development is hard. And I don't just mean first year differential calculus hard. I mean HARD!!! Architecting software is hard, and architecting for integrated experience is even harder. MS, and all other software companies have been moving in this direction for years -- and it's likely going to be many more years before it really happens. The correct path to get there from an engineering point is view is just not obvious. If if were, we would have been there years ago. If you think you'll get a better experience on a different ecosystem, then by all means move to that ecosystem.

    BTW. You aren't the same Gekko who used to be all over the Palm forums, moaning and complaining with every chance he could get? Your username and style of complaining brings back such "fond" memories.
    12-23-2011 09:48 AM
  21. freestaterocker's Avatar
    I also have identical gamertag and live ID.
    12-31-2011 09:28 PM
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