08-05-2012 12:37 AM
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  1. mYth's Avatar
    #1 the app count is bogus. It's gone from 10-45K in just 12 months that is amazing growth. Can't you just say that it's not enough apps and leave it that instead of lying?

    #2 - the UI. Take it or leave it. It's fundamentally different from the iOS/Android rows of icons and chrome UI and UX. Maybe that's what you miss, the gloss.
    #1 i said nothing about app count. I don't how care how exponential it is. Without updates it makes them worthless. The development process doesn't stop once its created. Don't accuse me of lying if you don't even read my sentence right.

    #2 I didn't say i missed anything. I just said it feels like something is missing. It needs a little extra kick to wow someone. Yeah livetiles are great, but they are few in number.

    Just coming from a 4S I'll list some things I've noticed.
    Gaming would be first. Its limited, even with xbox live. Besides racing, nothing really seems to be pushing the boundaries. All of the games seem like the short addicting games like angry birds and plants vs zombies. Its really lacking in other genres.
    Two is the limited storage. Only one phone has expandable memory. Music and videos don't go far on these phones. I need at least 32gb just to fit all my music. Adding videos is a whole other story.
    Three app development seems slow. I see a lot of the apps on the marketplace are always asking for a update.
    Last is the UI, I can't quite put my finger on it, but it feels like something is missing.

    I'll expand this a some more when I get home.
    I don't want to expand this on a page before. Then no one see's it. Even if its worthless haha.

    Nothing beats iTunes. I understand that its hard to compete with as well. The largest collection of music (and movies for all i know). Its got a pretty standard quality at 256kbps AAC. Which is fine because most newer phones cover M4A. But what about things that aren't M4A? I being an audiophile use a lot of lossless. Apple has the only phone (again to my knowledge) that supports a lossless codec by standard. Anyways what I'm getting at is codec supports. A lot of people who have invested money into music it becomes harder for them to switch. I don't want to convert all of my music into .flac or worse quality just because my phone wont support it.

    Not to mention Zune isn't the best experience.

    I'm never pleased with a browser experience on any mobile device. So i won't even go into that.

    The things i really want to see MS push is:
    - The xbox live experience. It really seems like they don't push it at all. A few games, a little customization of your avatar. Whatever. Bring more to me. Make xbox users want the phone. Exclusive halo/gow things. More synchronization with the xbox.
    - The requirements for building an WP7 phone. Seems kind of silly, but having a requirement for great/mediocre phones is a very good thing. It makes all of the phone have a similar experience, it just depends on what feels the best in your hands. Of course, having all of the different manufacturers gives us different physical issues and software bugs. But as an overall experience it stays pretty general.


    I still have more to say. I'm just way to tired. 6AM and i have to be back at work in 6 hours. Ugh.
    Last edited by mYth; 12-24-2011 at 07:13 AM.
    12-24-2011 06:34 AM
  2. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
    The things i really want to see MS push is:
    - The xbox live experience. It really seems like they don't push it at all. A few games, a little customization of your avatar. Whatever. Bring more to me. Make xbox users want the phone. Exclusive halo/gow things. More synchronization with the xbox.
    Definitely have to agree, this is huge for WP7. If they are so after Xbox and Zune, and with Xbox hub on the phone they really need to spark more interest from the gaming community. I think if there was more depth to it, it would really pick up.

    Even if they did avatar stuff, like buy/download Plants vs Zombies and get an avatar item or something. Something that people really grasp their attention to. I know there are a lot of people that go for achievements, and other little things that show off a gamer. If they added more flavor to it, it could really do well.

    WP7 only has so much going for it. If you take a step back you'll see things like Microsoft Office, Xbox Hub, and Zune. These are really key players (at least I think so) to WP7. If they work on making these things better well as Zune Software for desktop and continue to work on Xbox Live... Microsoft could see a huge increase to the user base. Millions of people play Xbox, and use the Xbox Live service. Once the ecosystem of Metro UI and Windows 8 comes out... we'll see how far this goes.
    12-24-2011 09:04 AM
  3. Speebs's Avatar
    I think the Live Tiles, make it a lot better looking then a grid of icons. Not many apps do take advantage of it, so I hear... but even then... You still have the same ideology. It's still a row of icons/squares/information.. just a different way to view them. A lot of people say it, Metro UI is either love it or hate it.
    I'm not talking about tiles vs. icons or whatever. I like the tiles (I wish you could make the live ones rotate their info on demand without having to wait for them though). The UI is more than just the live tiles.

    I don't agree.

    Photos: Windows Phone 7.5 Mango screenshots | The Microsoft Blog - seattlepi.com

    I like the minimalism and lack of chrome/gloss. It looks like a grown-up interface to me.

    Also check out this video to see how the Metro UI will point to future interfaces that go beyond mobile devices:



    What Microsoft is pointing towards is UX-centric rather then app-centric. Maybe that's over your head.
    No need to be insulting. Being UX-centric is what I'm after (I came from WebOS so there is no need to lecture me on user experience), and that's why I'd like it to look a little nicer. Minimalism is fine, but boring just turns people off (like me) and it can even make the phone harder to use (the email list should alternate background colors so it's easier to discern one email from the next, some options, like wifi settings, should be easier to access without having to go through 3 steps to get there or downloading an app, etc). Without ANY gloss, it looks like it's made out of legos to me, which is the opposite of a grown up phone.

    How it integrates with other devices is irrelevant. All I'm asking is for some gradients, font changes, and some curved edges.
    12-24-2011 09:53 AM
  4. KingCrimson's Avatar
    How it integrates with other devices is irrelevant. All I'm asking is for some gradients, font changes, and some curved edges.
    No what you're saying is you want it to look like iOS with the 3D glossy rounded icons.
    12-24-2011 02:14 PM
  5. koolkid09's Avatar
    No what you're saying is you want it to look like iOS with the 3D glossy rounded icons.
    I don't think that's what he is necessarily saying. I believe he is saying he would like to have the tools available to customize his phone to his specific liking.

    Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
    12-24-2011 02:36 PM
  6. KingCrimson's Avatar
    ^^^
    What does that even mean and why would I care about customizing Windows Phone? It's already the correct UX.
    12-24-2011 02:44 PM
  7. Speebs's Avatar
    No what you're saying is you want it to look like iOS with the 3D glossy rounded icons.
    actually, what I said was

    All I'm asking is for some gradients, font changes, and some curved edges.
    If you are going to troll or post without reading, or display rabid fanboyism, please don't bother doing it in response to any of my posts. Thanks in advance.
    12-24-2011 02:47 PM
  8. mhans311's Avatar
    ^^^
    What does that even mean and why would I care about customizing Windows Phone? It's already the correct UX.
    Nothing but a troll. Just because you don't care about something doesn't mean others shouldn't. Believe it or not, your opinion isn't universal. Some people like to be individuals and customize things.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    Speebs likes this.
    12-24-2011 03:17 PM
  9. KingCrimson's Avatar
    Let's get down to the brass tax. If a Windows "superphone" doesn't come by 2012 holiday season, it's game over. I don't believe Microsoft can gain significant market share with these substandard devices.
    12-24-2011 06:21 PM
  10. Mio_Ray's Avatar
    Well I just turned 2 users (1 iP + 1 Android). The (ex) Android user is constantly switching phone anyway, so it was just a matter of time before he came across WP. But after seing my 800 he tried out a Radar and has now ordered a 900.

    The iPhone user dropped her phone and I split open like a book, so no she has a 800 and is very happy about it.

    Both users say that it is the actual OS that impresses the most.

    A third user is considering a 800, she is just plain bored with her iPhone. She might wait until WP8

    So in short, they just have to see it. Then they believe it. And in the end it is not about the apps, at least not for these 3 users

    :D


    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    07-29-2012 12:54 PM
  11. alvila's Avatar
    I'll wait for wp8 , I tried the 900 excellent phone, but didn't keep since it was going to change shortly
    07-29-2012 01:07 PM
  12. socialcarpet's Avatar
    How it integrates with other devices is irrelevant. All I'm asking is for some gradients, font changes, and some curved edges.
    07-29-2012 01:35 PM
  13. socialcarpet's Avatar
    As a hardcore Android user it would take a lot for me to switch to Windows Phone.

    They would need to to open up the OS a little more for me. Not enough to cause severe fragmentation. Bit enough to were I feel like I can call the device my own. Add ability for different keyboards, wallpapers, change transparency of the tiles, smaller ans bigger tiles, more interactive tiles, etc...

    I don't really see Microsoft really changing what I need to leave Android anytime soon, so I don't really think about leaving often.

    PS. They also need better hardware.

    Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
    Different keyboards I could see, though the keyboard that comes with WP is better than the iPhone keyboard and I like it better than any of the 4 keyboards I tried on my Android phones, including Swype. Sometimes if you do something extremely well in the first place, there isn't much demand for "customization" but I can't honestly think of a single example of this in Android, which is why all the choices I suppose.

    Wallpapers and translucent tiles, absolutely not. There is just NO way to make that not look like a tacky, confusing mess.

    Smaller tiles, different size tiles, all those are coming. More interactive? I'm not sure what you mean precisely, but I would expect to see more functionality in some tiles in the near future.

    Ultimately WP is probably not going to move closer to the Android model of 25 menu choices for everything and with good reason. The people who designed it worked very hard to develop a very clear, concise UX that looks good and conveys information clearly. If I were them, I'd protect it from stupid people mucking it up too much with "customizations" too. Android to me is too much of a free for all.

    It's kind of like Google said, "Meh... we made this but it's not that great, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, do whatever you want with it. Oh, and your carrier and the people who made your phone, yeah, they're free to mess with it and make it worse and you can't undo what they did unless you root your phone and expect problems. We're not particularly proud of what we've made, so we're going to let anyone who wants to crap all over it and we're not taking any responsibility for the end result."

    That to me, is not the way to make the interface for a device you use on a daily basis that needs to be 110% reliable, dependable and get the job done and get out of your way. It's a good philosophy for a beta or a test product or something. Not a finished product.
    07-29-2012 01:45 PM
  14. AzD's Avatar
    "It's kind of like Google said, "Meh... we made this but it's not that great, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, do whatever you want with it."

    Yeah I'm sure that's exactly what Google said...
    07-29-2012 09:28 PM
  15. cckgz4's Avatar
    But that seems to be the message they've conveyed until 4.0

    Sent from Le Cyan de Lumia via Board Espresso
    07-30-2012 04:54 AM
  16. socialcarpet's Avatar
    But that seems to be the message they've conveyed until 4.0

    Sent from Le Cyan de Lumia via Board Espresso
    Precisely.
    07-30-2012 11:01 AM
  17. AzD's Avatar
    Maybe that's just the message as you interpret it. Market share analysis suggests that wasn't what Google was up to.
    07-30-2012 03:30 PM
  18. based_graham's Avatar
    I don't really care about iPhone and High End Android users. Its best to go after Blackberry users and low-end Android users.

    I sell them using 2 things
    1. Price
    2. Ecosystem
    07-30-2012 05:57 PM
  19. dwayne.williams's Avatar
    Of course it'll be difficult to get someone satisfied to switch, that's the definition of satisfied isn't it? I'm sure marketing departments are aiming at dissatisfied customers... That is even if they are aiming to switch people over I posted a long paragraph about how the Windows Phone movement is going for the uninitiated that's probably the best way to get market share at this point.

    Bullsh!t. Period. People that aren't techies or fanboys of a particular platform are ignorant, at least in large part they are. All it takes is for someone that works at a retail location to say that it isn't cool to sway their minds. I attribute it mainly to the fact that BECAUSE they don't know anything, they think that the people that work there do. If the people working there did their jobs correctly and took a neutral approach to sales and actually help people with correct information then chances are HIGHLY likely that people would likely choose Windows Phone, if not over an iPhone then definitely over an Android device. I have pitched Windows Phone to many people and approximately 98% of them are highly impressed.
    I agree with this to a certain degree. But the reality is that the salesperson at the carrier store will push what they think that they can sell. Plus, they also have a quota to meet with accessories sold. If I'm a salesperson, I'm pushing the iPhone because I know that people are more likely to buy it and because there are a boat load of accessories for it. It doesn't mean the iPhone is a better product, but it is a higher selling and more popular product. That's what matter to sales people.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
    07-31-2012 02:31 AM
  20. Even4steven's Avatar
    I agree with this to a certain degree. But the reality is that the salesperson at the carrier store will push what they think that they can sell. Plus, they also have a quota to meet with accessories sold. If I'm a salesperson, I'm pushing the iPhone because I know that people are more likely to buy it and because there are a boat load of accessories for it. It doesn't mean the iPhone is a better product, but it is a higher selling and more popular product. That's what matter to sales people.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
    I currently own and use both Android and Apple phones and tablets (used to be mostly Android, now mostly Apple) and used Windows Mobile prior to that. For the first time since owning those products, I am giving some thought to switching back to MS to Windows 8 devices. I am more a fan of technology rather than a fanboy of any company. I want devices and apps/software that work easy and share everything via the cloud, the way that I want. Android is too inconsistent (love Google stuff though) Apple just works; it really does, but is confining and limiting. I will wait till the fall and get a good look at W8 and the phones and tablets that go with it.

    All it would take for me to switch besides the money is a comprehensive offering across all device lines with GREAT battery time a must. That is a deal breaker for me. Besides, MS has always been like an old sweater, it just fits and I KNOW how to use most of it.
    08-01-2012 09:34 AM
  21. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Maybe that's just the message as you interpret it. Market share analysis suggests that wasn't what Google was up to.
    Marketshare analysis says Google took advantage of a wide open field and got their OS on to a ton of phones that had no other option.

    It has not a damn thing to do with the quality of Android. Quite frankly, the history of Windows is very similar. Microsoft turned out pure inferior crap for years and still had massive marketshare. Every Microsoft OS before XP was a laughing stock and XP wasn't all that great either and lingered way too long. It wasn't until Windows 7 that I even believed Microsoft was capable of making software that wasn't pure ****.

    Marketshare has little to do with having the best product. Don't get it twisted.
    08-01-2012 04:57 PM
  22. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Let's get down to the brass tax. If a Windows "superphone" doesn't come by 2012 holiday season, it's game over. I don't believe Microsoft can gain significant market share with these substandard devices.
    Even if a "super phone" does come, it will take years for Microsoft to make huge changes in the marketshare. It doesn't matter though.

    It's not "game over" until Microsoft says it is. They have a ridiculous amount of money and nearly endless resources. Microsoft still dominates the desktop computing world and it's a safe bet they are going to leverage that in ways that are going to get Google and Apple's attention.

    Remember the Xbox was supposed to fail too. It wasn't profitable for years. Microsoft is tenacious and they don't surrender unless they want to. No one else calls those shots for them.

    Windows Phone is not going to explode into 60% marketshare in a year. It's too late for that. But you can count on it sticking around and growing steadily. Remember the smartphone market is no where near saturated yet. Not only do people buy new smartphones every 2 years, but at least 50% of the customers out there haven't even bought their FIRST smartphone. There is a vast, untapped market of people out there still on feature phones, or who've only had a crappy Blackberry curve or something. They aren't committed to the Apple or Android ecosystem yet and they are perfect targets for Windows phone.

    Smartphones are such an important part of the current and future computing/internet landscape that there is no way in **** Microsoft is going to give up on them. It's not a trend like standalone MP3 players, i.e. the Zune that Microsoft can afford to just walk away from.

    If Microsoft has to GIVE Windows Phones away with new PC's to get them into people's hands, they will do it. Remember where you heard that.
    08-01-2012 05:04 PM
  23. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar

    If Microsoft has to GIVE Windows Phones away with new PC's to get them into people's hands, they will do it. Remember where you heard that.
    Honestly, they might just need to bite the bullet and subsidize that effort.

    Supposedly Nokia, AT&T and Microsoft spent the largest marketing budget in the mobile industry, ever, to launch the Lumia devices, and they barely moved the needle. Once you rent out NYC's Times Square for a public concert, I'm not sure how much bigger you can go.

    I can't see how this Fall, in the midst of the iPhone 5 and new Nexus Phone releases will change things.

    Also, that metric about the number of people still on featurephones, that are a potential target for smartphones, IMO is irrelevant. I've seen that bandied about elsewhere.

    But it's meaningless. You're assuming that the remaining customers who don't have smartphones, want one; some I know who still carry a dumbphone, usually older folks or teens, do so, because they either don't want to, or can't, pay for a carrier smartphone and data plan. Unless Microsoft also plans to subsidize data contracts, the cost conscious customers are a lost market, because you can bet Verizon or AT&T aren't *lowering* prices for anyone.

    You're not going to get a cost conscious consumer to upgrade, by offering them a "free" or cheap smartphone.....on a $100 a month postpaid contract plan. The upfront cost for the phone is almost besides the point.
    Last edited by Johnny Tremaine; 08-02-2012 at 07:04 AM.
    08-02-2012 06:57 AM
  24. nite732's Avatar
    The ability to switch all my apple content to wp 8 so I don't have to purchase apps again.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    08-02-2012 07:02 AM
  25. derek533's Avatar
    IMO, the biggest thing that can be done, is for Nokia to release a launch WP8 Pureview phone. Doesn't matter about anything else, the general public will see the Pureview specs, and immediately start looking at them as a possibility. The reason point and shoot cameras are still around is we all know that no cell phone can match the picture quality. With the Pureview, that goes out the window and Nokia/Microsoft could heavily market this aspect and say something to the effect of that finally, there is a device that takes high quality pictures and happens to have excellent phone qualities as well with Xbox Live online play/integration.

    The actual phone sells the phone, not the OS. Add an amazing camera to a phone and market the crap out of it, and it will sell.
    08-02-2012 07:10 AM
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