01-23-2012 09:51 PM
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  1. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    I think the 2nd Gen hardware is right up there with both Android/iOS. If someone says their phone has a dual core processor, you should ask them, "and what does that do for you?" I bet they will have no answer.
    Oh god, I couldn't care less about notifications. What I really don't like right now in Windows Phone is the hardware is 2 generations behind the industry leaders. How can they expect a person to want to buy a phone that is state-of-the-art for 2009 when you can get a iPhone 4S or Galaxy Nexus?
    01-07-2012 01:42 PM
  2. KingCrimson's Avatar
    I think the 2nd Gen hardware is right up there with both Android/iOS. If someone says their phone has a dual core processor, you should ask them, "and what does that do for you?" I bet they will have no answer.
    My only question for you is there any Windows Phone that can play a game like Infinite Blade II, record 1080p video or take super high quality photos like the iPhone 4S? Not to mention you can get built-in 64GB storage and no WP goes higher then 32GB with micro SD card.
    01-07-2012 01:45 PM
  3. scottcraft's Avatar
    At least describe (for the benefit of everyone's time) 'why' you think the notifications are weak...
    Here's what I don't like about the notifications: Say I'm using board express to read wpcentral. I get a toast notification from words by post. I click on the notification, go to the game, make my move. Long-press back button and I switch back to wpcentral. What if I don't want to go to the game and make a move at that time? The notification is gone and I have to actually go to words by post. What if I'm reading wpcentral and I get an email? No toast notification, so I have to go to the start screen and open the email app. These are small details, but it would be so nice if every app gave a toast notification and they stayed in a pull-down menu similar to android. Don't get me wrong, I make do and I have no desire for another platform, but these are the things that bug me about the WP notifications.
    01-07-2012 05:38 PM
  4. freestaterocker's Avatar
    I actually like the idea of the messaging tile shoeing a pic of who texted you, or it could show you their name and part of the message last received... All good ideas. Possible MS just didn't think of it, or did and felt it would be too similar too the people hub...

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    01-07-2012 06:11 PM
  5. freestaterocker's Avatar
    @scottcraft you can set up a tone for emails, but yah a toast would be nice. I'm a welder, so I don't generally get urgent work emails thus it matters less to me, but the option would be nice for corporate types. With all the other office considerations WP makes, this seems like a big oversight...

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    01-07-2012 06:15 PM
  6. jfa1's Avatar
    My only question for you is there any Windows Phone that can play a game like Infinite Blade II, record 1080p video or take super high quality photos like the iPhone 4S? Not to mention you can get built-in 64GB storage and no WP goes higher then 32GB with micro SD card.
    Well I have a friend with a rezound and it does the 1080P and has super screen resolution and a really good camera and has an sd card slot that supports 32 GB. I dont want it because its VZN and Android. Personal reasons for VZN unrelated to Android and android because its .. well.. android
    01-07-2012 06:45 PM
  7. apRPhle's Avatar
    But, the hardware requirements aren't the same of the competition. Mango runs as smooth as a baby buttock, so why over do it on the hardware, whilst losing the price appeal?

    After having a friendly bit of banter with a friend of mine who owns an iPhone 4, he said he would have actually gone with WP if he had known about it... and here's the best bit, when I told him what my tariff was he was kicking himself!
    First of all, I do agree with you, but a majority of consumers aren't tech savvy. I wouldn't even say tech savvy is the right word, most consumers simply don't do their research when buying things. They walk into a store and either go straight to the iPhone or an Android phone. If they were to walk into the store and start playing with a windows phone, a sales associate would quickly tell them that it's only a single core processor and that an android phone has dual core, along with 1080p video, a front facing camera, apps apps apps and etc. Once they hear that, its over! Most consumers don't realize that a windows phone doesn't need to have dual core to run really smooth, they just think more is better.

    People like you, me and any other person that participates in the forums on sites such as wpcentral, imore, androidcentral, webosnation, and crackberry are what I call knowledgeable consumers but compared to consumers as a whole, it's only a small percentage. Thus, in order to appeal to the masses and maximize profit and recognition, I feel that windows phone would benefit from enhancing their phone specs. IT'S ALL ABOUT HARDWARE, HARDWARE sells when it comes to regular consumers, 4.3 inch display is better than 3.7 inch, dual core is better than single core, FFC is better than no FFC (EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE RARELY USE IT! My brother has an iPhone and I asked him how many times he's used his FFC, he said none, what's the point? None of my friends do it.) and etc.

    Perfect example is webOS, great software but horrific hardware. If webOS and even Mango, were on phones such as the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, there is no doubt in my mind that they would be equal in market share with respect to iOS and Android...maybe even surpass one of them. If Android came out with Palm Pre hardware, they wouldn't even be around now, b/c their software wasn't that great in the beginning, but that's just my opinion.

    Im very interested in seeing how the Nokia Lumia 900 will do in the U.S but the fact that it's single core makes me think it won't do as well. I'm personally waiting to get the 900 myself but once again, I know that a majority of consumers will look elsewhere. Why? Not because it has windows mango on it...it's bc 2 > 1 (i.e. core processor). Who knows, maybe Nokia will reveal something totally different at CES this week, like a QUAD CORE Lumia 1000, hahaha.
    Last edited by wRpH; 01-07-2012 at 09:30 PM.
    01-07-2012 09:24 PM
  8. mhans311's Avatar
    My only question for you is there any Windows Phone that can play a game like Infinite Blade II, record 1080p video or take super high quality photos like the iPhone 4S? Not to mention you can get built-in 64GB storage and no WP goes higher then 32GB with micro SD card.
    Why do you always pull the infinite blade card? The percentage of people who want to play games like that is very very small. Also, who want to record at 1080p when it looks crappy? There is not a cell phone on the market right now that has good 1080p recording capabilities. It looks no better than 720p to me.

    Keep in mind, I am a huge android fan. I am giving WP a go, but I kept my droid x as a backup in case I don't like WP too much. I have been very impressed with my Trophy so far and wp is much smoother than any rom I tried in my droid x.



    Sent from my Trophy using Board Express
    Forgewizard and Big Supes like this.
    01-07-2012 09:56 PM
  9. scottcraft's Avatar
    @scottcraft you can set up a tone for emails, but yah a toast would be nice. I'm a welder, so I don't generally get urgent work emails thus it matters less to me, but the option would be nice for corporate types. With all the other office considerations WP makes, this seems like a big oversight...

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    I have a separate tone for emails. Most of my emails are notifications from forums such as this one. I can make do with it as it is, but toasts for everything would be nice. I prefer WP notifications to pre-iOS 5 iphones though.
    01-07-2012 10:35 PM
  10. selfcreation's Avatar
    Wp7 is fine the way it is.. And competes at 100%. Any one who say or thinks otherwise is mistinformed and that's your lost... If u simply don't like it move on n hold your tongue..

    Sent from my SGH-i917R using Board Express
    01-07-2012 10:45 PM
  11. Forgewizard's Avatar
    wp is much smoother than any rom I tried in my droid x.

    YES! BINGO!
    I don't have to try ANY custom ROMS to be happy with my WP7 Mango HTC Arrive! I haven't had to Doctor it, install UBER anything, or overclock the CPU like I did to my Palm Pre. It has simply worked straight out of the box and with the Mango update! There are a few things I've suggested changes for on UserVoice and with the Marketplace suggestion app, but all in all the stability of this platform has me enjoying my cell phone again. I don't feel like I am in a love/hate relationship!

    While having a phone that integrates with gaming apps is cool for some - I'd say the majority of people use a cell phone to communicate socially - WP7 takes THIS into account.

    The second largest set of people using cell phones would likely be the corporate/business folks and WP7 has lots of on board tools to keep them running smooth.

    Those who get a cell phone as a status symbol or fashion accessory are likely to give WP7 a pass, unless they are the type that like to be cutting edge and stand out from the crowd.

    Gamers, well - sorry- do they really count? Its a cell PHONE - right? Aren't there already portable gaming devices? Aren't games on cell phones designed to pass the time when stuck in checkout lines, waiting at doctors offices or to keep kids entertained on car trips?

    Cheers!

    Why do you always pull the infinite blade card? The percentage of people who want to play games like that is very very small. Also, who want to record at 1080p when it looks crappy? There is not a cell phone on the market right now that has good 1080p recording capabilities. It looks no better than 720p to me.

    Keep in mind, I am a huge android fan. I am giving WP a go, but I kept my droid x as a backup in case I don't like WP too much. I have been very impressed with my Trophy so far and wp is much smoother than any rom I tried in my droid x.



    Sent from my Trophy using Board Express
    nopre likes this.
    01-07-2012 11:17 PM
  12. Blacklac's Avatar
    Drives me nuts when I'm using the browser and I hit the Windows button to do something else quick. Do what I need to do and hit IE from the homescreen. Now hit back, thinking you'll load the previous webpage, but no, back to the homescreen. Makes no sense and so annoying.
    01-07-2012 11:43 PM
  13. Big Supes's Avatar
    Here's what I don't like about the notifications: Say I'm using board express to read wpcentral. I get a toast notification from words by post. I click on the notification, go to the game, make my move. Long-press back button and I switch back to wpcentral. What if I don't want to go to the game and make a move at that time? The notification is gone and I have to actually go to words by post. What if I'm reading wpcentral and I get an email? No toast notification, so I have to go to the start screen and open the email app. These are small details, but it would be so nice if every app gave a toast notification and they stayed in a pull-down menu similar to android. Don't get me wrong, I make do and I have no desire for another platform, but these are the things that bug me about the WP notifications.
    That makes sense, especially if you're coming over from Android. Personally, I manage to multitask just fine on WP, but we're all so different in how we navigate and interact with UI's. For example, if I'm in the middle of something and I get toast, I read it and prioritise whether or not I want to attend to it. If it can wait, I'll continue what I'm doing, then simply hit the start button and open whatever application is needed. I do agree that some minor little touches need to be added to the notification system on WP though.

    I have to admit, I was impressed with my friends iPhone 4S's notification system under screen lock. Missed calls were acknowledged through the 'slide to unlock' function.


    First of all, I do agree with you, but a majority of consumers aren't tech savvy. I wouldn't even say tech savvy is the right word, most consumers simply don't do their research when buying things. They walk into a store and either go straight to the iPhone or an Android phone. If they were to walk into the store and start playing with a windows phone, a sales associate would quickly tell them that it's only a single core processor and that an android phone has dual core, along with 1080p video, a front facing camera, apps apps apps and etc. Once they hear that, its over! Most consumers don't realize that a windows phone doesn't need to have dual core to run really smooth, they just think more is better.

    People like you, me and any other person that participates in the forums on sites such as wpcentral, imore, androidcentral, webosnation, and crackberry are what I call knowledgeable consumers but compared to consumers as a whole, it's only a small percentage. Thus, in order to appeal to the masses and maximize profit and recognition, I feel that windows phone would benefit from enhancing their phone specs. IT'S ALL ABOUT HARDWARE, HARDWARE sells when it comes to regular consumers, 4.3 inch display is better than 3.7 inch, dual core is better than single core, FFC is better than no FFC (EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE RARELY USE IT! My brother has an iPhone and I asked him how many times he's used his FFC, he said none, what's the point? None of my friends do it.) and etc.

    Perfect example is webOS, great software but horrific hardware. If webOS and even Mango, were on phones such as the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, there is no doubt in my mind that they would be equal in market share with respect to iOS and Android...maybe even surpass one of them. If Android came out with Palm Pre hardware, they wouldn't even be around now, b/c their software wasn't that great in the beginning, but that's just my opinion.

    Im very interested in seeing how the Nokia Lumia 900 will do in the U.S but the fact that it's single core makes me think it won't do as well. I'm personally waiting to get the 900 myself but once again, I know that a majority of consumers will look elsewhere. Why? Not because it has windows mango on it...it's bc 2 > 1 (i.e. core processor). Who knows, maybe Nokia will reveal something totally different at CES this week, like a QUAD CORE Lumia 1000, hahaha.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head, which leaves the question: so what is the solution? Do MS up the system requirements for WP, whilst increasing the price dramatically of an OS that needs to attract more of the marketshare? I'm not sure that's the best way forward, TBH, although I wouldn't be surprised if that worked due to sales staff pushing it more due to higher commission rates. Also, a lot of people want the best and they make that judgement based on price.

    Since joining this forum and lurking on various others, something I've noticed is this bizarre hatred for MS, which seems to be focused in the US. Don't get me wrong, I've been well aware of their negative press for a long time, but up until now, I've realised that a lot of it seems to be a US thing. I can honestly say that, not once has a phone rep attempted to steer me away from WP, here in the UK... and I routinely walk into mobile phone stores when I'm out and about. Actually, it was an Orange phone rep that steered my away from BB and hooked me up with a WP. :) The only negative thing I can say is their lack of product knowledge.
    01-08-2012 05:41 AM
  14. Big Supes's Avatar
    Drives me nuts when I'm using the browser and I hit the Windows button to do something else quick. Do what I need to do and hit IE from the homescreen. Now hit back, thinking you'll load the previous webpage, but no, back to the homescreen. Makes no sense and so annoying.
    Tad annoying, yes. Just remember to hit 'recent'. :)
    01-08-2012 05:43 AM
  15. Blacklac's Avatar
    Tad annoying, yes. Just remember to hit 'recent'. :)
    That is a solution, it just isnt intuitive at all. Not only that, no other Applications behave that way. If you go back to any other App and hit back, it goes back, not close. I dont know if its a bug or an oversight. Thanks for the reply though.
    01-08-2012 01:54 PM
  16. apRPhle's Avatar

    I think you've hit the nail on the head, which leaves the question: so what is the solution? Do MS up the system requirements for WP, whilst increasing the price dramatically of an OS that needs to attract more of the marketshare?
    In my opinion, the only way for WP to gain market share in the mobile industry is to update their phone specs. For example, if I have 2 phones with the same hardware specs (i.e. dual core vs dual core, 4.3 inch vs 4.3 inch, FFC vs FFC, 1GB RAM vs 1GB RAM, LTE vs LTE and etc) then what else are you going to look at next...the OS right? Once consumers are able to look past hardware specs and truly EXPERIENCE with each of the OS's (iOS, android, mango) are they then able to make a wise consumer choice. Nowadays, consumers (the ones that aren't tech savvy) are all about name brand and physical features, especially so in the U.S. (Im from the U.S. by the way). As I mentioned before in my previous post, Im intrigued to see how the Nokia Lumia 900 does bc not only do specs sell, looks sell as well. The Nokia Lumia 800 and 900 are great looking phones and I think that'll help out a lot when it comes to increasing WP sales.

    Does the price in windows phone need to go up in order to compensate for the higher specs...yup, they sure do. The thing is, I dont think price matters anymore. When I see kids and teenagers with iphones, it just clearly shows me that price doesn't matter. It tells me their parents are willing to pay for it OR the kids are willing to save up enough money to buy a $100-$300 phone. Plus, if WP hardware is comparable with other competing hardware then prices will all be the same anyway b/c in order for Apple, Samsung, LG, Nokia & HTC to continue to compete in the market, they'll all price their high end phones around the same (i.e. iphone 4S 32 GB is $299 vs. Samsung Galaxy Nexus 32GB $299).

    Since joining this forum and lurking on various others, something I've noticed is this bizarre hatred for MS, which seems to be focused in the US. Don't get me wrong, I've been well aware of their negative press for a long time, but up until now, I've realised that a lot of it seems to be a US thing. I can honestly say that, not once has a phone rep attempted to steer me away from WP, here in the UK... and I routinely walk into mobile phone stores when I'm out and about. Actually, it was an Orange phone rep that steered my away from BB and hooked me up with a WP. :) The only negative thing I can say is their lack of product knowledge.
    Windows just has a bad rep in the U.S. period. To be honest, when I was switching from webOS, the only reason I looked at WP was bc of the hardware. When I saw the Nokia Lumia 800, I was like WOW, I WANT THAT NOW; but when I found out that it was running windows, I was like, UGH! However, I liked the phone so much (once again going back to my point about HARDWARE SELLS...buuut take that with a grain of salt, I have a palm pre now so all us webOS users have been longing for some new hardware hahaha) that I walked into a AT&T store to try out a HTC titan running mango and needless to say, I was impressed; and once again that goes back to my "Looking pass the hardware and having a user EXPERIENCE" point. Personally, I feel that MS should've named their phone OS differently, the fact that it's called windows phone will immediately turn people away, ESPECIALLY in the U.S. where Apple reigns supreme.

    For those that don't believe me when I say Apple reigns supreme, well, here you go....
    Last edited by wRpH; 01-08-2012 at 10:02 PM.
    01-08-2012 09:42 PM
  17. mkr10001's Avatar

    For those that don't believe me when I say Apple reigns supreme, well, here you go....
    Click to view quoted image

    OK a room of apple nerds....I'm sure you could find a room full of windows geeks
    01-09-2012 10:17 AM
  18. Big Supes's Avatar
    In my opinion, the only way for WP to gain market share in the mobile industry is to update their phone specs. For example, if I have 2 phones with the same hardware specs (i.e. dual core vs dual core, 4.3 inch vs 4.3 inch, FFC vs FFC, 1GB RAM vs 1GB RAM, LTE vs LTE and etc) then what else are you going to look at next...the OS right?
    But, surely... wouldn't you be comparing the OS's, anyway. Responsiveness, speeds, smoothness, etc. Further more, you can do that now (on a single core processor) and Windows Phone will still shine. I get what you're saying, but I have a hard time dismissing logic in order to appease the tech-numpties.

    Once consumers are able to look past hardware specs and truly EXPERIENCE with each of the OS's (iOS, android, mango) are they then able to make a wise consumer choice. Nowadays, consumers (the ones that aren't tech savvy) are all about name brand and physical features, especially so in the U.S. (Im from the U.S. by the way). As I mentioned before in my previous post, Im intrigued to see how the Nokia Lumia 900 does bc not only do specs sell, looks sell as well. The Nokia Lumia 800 and 900 are great looking phones and I think that'll help out a lot when it comes to increasing WP sales.

    Does the price in windows phone need to go up in order to compensate for the higher specs...yup, they sure do. The thing is, I dont think price matters anymore. When I see kids and teenagers with iphones, it just clearly shows me that price doesn't matter. It tells me their parents are willing to pay for it OR the kids are willing to save up enough money to buy a $100-$300 phone. Plus, if WP hardware is comparable with other competing hardware then prices will all be the same anyway b/c in order for Apple, Samsung, LG, Nokia & HTC to continue to compete in the market, they'll all price their high end phones around the same (i.e. iphone 4S 32 GB is $299 vs. Samsung Galaxy Nexus 32GB $299).



    Windows just has a bad rep in the U.S. period. To be honest, when I was switching from webOS, the only reason I looked at WP was bc of the hardware. When I saw the Nokia Lumia 800, I was like WOW, I WANT THAT NOW; but when I found out that it was running windows, I was like, UGH! However, I liked the phone so much (once again going back to my point about HARDWARE SELLS...buuut take that with a grain of salt, I have a palm pre now so all us webOS users have been longing for some new hardware hahaha) that I walked into a AT&T store to try out a HTC titan running mango and needless to say, I was impressed; and once again that goes back to my "Looking pass the hardware and having a user EXPERIENCE" point. Personally, I feel that MS should've named their phone OS differently, the fact that it's called windows phone will immediately turn people away, ESPECIALLY in the U.S. where Apple reigns supreme.

    For those that don't believe me when I say Apple reigns supreme, well, here you go....
    Click to view quoted image
    I agree regarding price, but only when we're talking about Apple and the iSheep. Ha! Sounds like a children's book. :D Anyhow, the reason I say this is because, to generalise, I find Apple and they're customers quite pretentious. They all kinda dress the same, carry the same little carry-cases and genuinely think they're 'the cool kids'. Apple are constantly telling us we're worthless without iProducts and it seems to work on a lot of people. Android substantiate their prices through 'specs', but fail to tell you that their crappy OS demands it. Windows has always, IMO, more sensible on price. I'd like them to continue this approach by taking logical steps forward and gearing WP with the hardware it requires. If you want to appeal to the cool gang, surely this professional approach will eventually prevail. For the love I logic, I hope it does. I can't live in a world for glitchy Android and iSheep.

    As for the picture, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Apple still only have around 9% of the PC marketshare? Not really reigning supreme...
    01-09-2012 12:11 PM
  19. N8ter's Avatar
    I find it disturbing how willing people are to dismiss hardware specs.

    I think when people start looking past the base OS they'll understand why it matters more than they let on.

    Cause a smooth OS on old hardware that runs laggy apps and games is worse than an OS with some UI latency on uber hardware that can run every high end app or game for the next two years flawlessly...

    Apple has low marketshare because they insist on pricing themselves out of a large segment of the market. If Apple had Macs in Walmart for $349 like those cheap emachines and laptops for $348-448 like those cheap HP and Acer bricks (which still have specs comparable to MacBooks and iMacs, mind you, in many cases) there they'd have a lot more marketshare.

    Citing Apple's marketshare is like saying Ferrari sucks cause their marketshare is low. Seriously now...
    01-09-2012 01:10 PM
  20. theefman's Avatar
    I find it disturbing how willing people are to dismiss hardware specs.

    I think when people start looking past the base OS they'll understand why it matters more than they let on.

    Cause a smooth OS on old hardware that runs laggy apps and games is worse than an OS with some UI latency on uber hardware that can run every high end app or game for the next two years flawlessly...
    The performance factor of apps and games is more to do with the limitation of using managed code rather than any hardware deficiency, as demonstrated by the difference in performance between the builtin and 3rd party applications.
    01-09-2012 02:18 PM
  21. N8ter's Avatar
    The performance factor of apps and games is more to do with the limitation of using managed code rather than any hardware deficiency, as demonstrated by the difference in performance between the builtin and 3rd party applications.
    That is exactly my point. Thanks for agreeing.

    With better hardware the managed code can potentially perform much better assuming the runtime is optimized for that hardware.

    Also, an SoC with a crappy GPU will still have a crappy GPU regardless of whether or not you're using managed or native code. The hardware has hard limitations built-in, regardless of what other factors you bring up (which only compound the issue and lend more validity to people's dismissal of the platform based on the hardware on which it is being installed).
    01-09-2012 07:59 PM
  22. shubhashish's Avatar
    There is a reason why WP7 doesn't have built in notifications (which is a standard on other platforms). This is the single most sore point in the phone.

    There isn't a single Twitter client which has push notifications option. Even the Facebook app on WP7 looks like a hush-hush job. I have tried comparing push notifications on an iPhone4, Samsung Galaxy SII and Lumia 800. The Lumia is really slow when it comes to Facebook notifications. Let alone Twitter, because there is no app that has the feature as of now.

    So, the question is, something as standard as push notifications, is absent on this platform and even app developers are struggling/not providing the feature. This says a lot about the OS and its development.
    01-23-2012 09:49 PM
  23. KingCrimson's Avatar
    There is a reason why WP7 doesn't have built in notifications (which is a standard on other platforms). This is the single most sore point in the phone.

    There isn't a single Twitter client which has push notifications option. Even the Facebook app on WP7 looks like a hush-hush job. I have tried comparing push notifications on an iPhone4, Samsung Galaxy SII and Lumia 800. The Lumia is really slow when it comes to Facebook notifications. Let alone Twitter, because there is no app that has the feature as of now.

    So, the question is, something as standard as push notifications, is absent on this platform and even app developers are struggling/not providing the feature. This says a lot about the OS and its development.
    Wait a minute, who needs a notifications center anyways?
    01-23-2012 09:51 PM
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