05-02-2012 08:09 AM
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  1. mprice86's Avatar
    Except when the iPhone first came out smart phones weren't common place. Its 2012 now they are
    I don't really see your point... They're common place now so a relatively small number of handsets should come out and immediately outsell everything else on the market and launch with 500,000 apps?

    Your comment only reinforces my point, the iPhone was the hot new thing and still took time to build up apps and establish a solid sales pattern and userbase.

    Now there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of smart phones on the market, there is a lot more competition for a new OS and handsets to go up against. Despite that, WP has had a solid first year of growth in users and developers. Honestly, the doom and gloom outlook of this place is astounding in light of what has been achieved in just one year.
    Coolaaron88 likes this.
    01-06-2012 06:58 PM
  2. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    The iPhone user base boomed. Right from the get go.

    Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
    Premium1 and Billone like this.
    01-06-2012 07:39 PM
  3. Premium1's Avatar
    I don't really see your point... They're common place now so a relatively small number of handsets should come out and immediately outsell everything else on the market and launch with 500,000 apps?

    Your comment only reinforces my point, the iPhone was the hot new thing and still took time to build up apps and establish a solid sales pattern and userbase.

    Now there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of smart phones on the market, there is a lot more competition for a new OS and handsets to go up against. Despite that, WP has had a solid first year of growth in users and developers. Honestly, the doom and gloom outlook of this place is astounding in light of what has been achieved in just one year.
    No I am saying that it should take less time to sell phones now compared to then. I mean up until a few years ago feature phones were the majority and smartphones were the small minority, now the tides have turned and practically everyone is buying a smart phone. You can't really compare then and now saying well it took this phone over a year to sell x amount back in x year. Not to mention the "doom and gloom" is due to the marketshare that wp has. No matter how many apps they have if the phones aren't selling it doesn't really do much for the platform.
    01-06-2012 08:07 PM
  4. toyotast165's Avatar
    all I know is that the disappearing keyboard issue is a deal killer for me. Returning tomorrow. Can't deal with it any longer. Its just too aggravating. Then the news today that its up to carriers to approve wether an update gets sent to phones even for security updates, what is this android? No clarification from at&t on wether what phones will receive updates let alone when, even though Microsoft has issued the update... So I would have to 'root' in order to be secure? Like android? Really? Even though that would void my warranty...
    as it sits the focus flash which I love has become unusable, every forum I go on the keyboard disappears. Useless. I wouldn't care if I knew the update was actually coming, but calling at&t they told me they have no information other than to return the devices tomorrow and they have credited me for the restocking fees. I was quite surprised as all I asked was when is the update coming since my phone is basically unusable because the keyboard constantly disappearing. The phone call was odd, here's $73 return your phones, we will contact you went we have more information....
    now I don't even want to return them mind you, I just want the keyboard to stay on the damn screen!
    Premium1 likes this.
    01-06-2012 08:44 PM
  5. mprice86's Avatar
    The iPhone user base boomed. Right from the get go.

    Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
    Thanks. Did you read my post?

    See here - iPhone per quarter sales figures.

    Slow start followed by an explosion in Q4 of the year after launch. Windows Phone sales at the very least are equal to those figures so far for the first year. The explosion is yet to come, expect it between Q2 and Q3 this year.

    No I am saying that it should take less time to sell phones now compared to then. I mean up until a few years ago feature phones were the majority and smartphones were the small minority, now the tides have turned and practically everyone is buying a smart phone. You can't really compare then and now saying well it took this phone over a year to sell x amount back in x year. Not to mention the "doom and gloom" is due to the marketshare that wp has. No matter how many apps they have if the phones aren't selling it doesn't really do much for the platform.
    The phones are selling though. In similar numbers to what iPhone saw in its first year, including the slight dip in sales last quarter, though nothing like as severe as it was for iPhone.

    I know you're going to say you can't compare then and now, again. But given how different WP7 is compared to iOS and Android I would argue that it's a fair comparison. And unfair comparison is market share. You simply cannot compare the market share of 3 products when 2 of them have been out nearly 4 years longer than the other.

    iPhone, even as the hot new thing took a year to year 2.7% marketshare. Android reached 4.7% marketshare in about 18 months. Source. Windows Phone, launching in to a far, far more competitive environment has achieved 1.5-1.7%.

    I can't be bothered writing any more or finding more figures, it's fairly clear that people want to have such a depressing outlook on things, I can't change that. I'll go back to quietly enjoying my phone and anticipating what is to come this year.
    jfa1, Big Supes and Coolaaron88 like this.
    01-06-2012 09:58 PM
  6. manicottiK's Avatar
    ...I really can't believe it would be impossible not to offer...a more variable colour slider rather than a set list of colours right now, without the need for more than a very minor update to Mango.
    Possible, yes; desirable, maybe not.

    Properly written WP apps expect four standard "colors" to be present for buiding user interfaces: foreground, background, accent, and subtle. Developers use these system colors instead of literal colors like "white" and "black" because these system colors swap to handle both the light and dark themes created for WP (in part to accomodate OLED power consumption issues). The set of accent colors provided by the OS ensure sufficient contrast with both black and white.

    Here's an example of text (in all four colors) placed above backgrounds of "light", a few "accent" colors, and "dark". You can see that the accent colors have good contrast with both black and white; even the "subtle" (gray) color works on both extremes and reasonably well on the accent colors (although probably only in larger sizes).


    Allowing any user-selected color might not provide for such contrast. The result would be that parts of existing apps' user-interfaces would seem to "disappear." Imagine a black or dark gray accent color. Now look at your email list -- subject lines of unread items would disappear; similarly, appointments topics would be missing.

    Some users might say "programmers should accomodate our selection" but the entire user experience model is geared around four system colors that provide good in-app contrast while also providing cross-app visual consistency. Giving up those colors means giving up that consistency and experience and leaves us with the visual mess that is Android today. (It's interesting to note that Google is going to apply more rules to devices using ICS so that the free-for-all that they currently have can be reigned in somewhat.)
    Justin.TV312 likes this.
    01-07-2012 09:35 AM
  7. Chris Coyle's Avatar
    Seriously? 6 months in with Mango and Tango coming, followed by Apollo later this year? WTF do you want?
    A keyboard that doesn't disappear..oh I forget since all carriers think WP7 is *** they won't have to send out any updates anymore to fix that problem. Thanks MS for your lack of support with all upcoming upgrades. Another nail in the coffin of your already small market share. :@
    01-07-2012 12:42 PM
  8. Chris Coyle's Avatar
    Thanks. Did you read my post?


    I can't be bothered writing any more or finding more figures, it's fairly clear that people want to have such a depressing outlook on things, I can't change that. I'll go back to quietly enjoying my phone and anticipating what is to come this year.
    Oh maybe it's because MS just pulled the rug out from everybody with this new updates policy ? No depressing outlook here, try more like anger instead. :@
    01-07-2012 12:45 PM
  9. KingCrimson's Avatar
    Except when the iPhone first came out smart phones weren't common place. Its 2012 now they are more common and pretty much everyone has one.
    That's not true. 60% of Americans still own feature phones while NOT owning a smartphone. It's still a huge market, but 2012 is key for Windows Phone. It has to sell at least 10 million to get a foothold in the market.
    01-07-2012 01:05 PM
  10. Big Supes's Avatar
    It's pretty much a safe bet that the disappearing keyboard will be fixed next with Tango, which was reported to be released around February this year.

    Personally, I haven't really been that effected by the dreaded disappearing keyboard. It's annoying, yes, but it doesn't happen all that often (well, for me, anyway) and when it does, all it takes is two simple taps and it's back again.
    01-07-2012 01:13 PM
  11. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    It's a strange bug. It happened to me all day about a week ago, I have only seen it once since. But I'm sure the update will be rolling out soon. Or that the xda people will find a way to force the update.
    all I know is that the disappearing keyboard issue is a deal killer for me. Returning tomorrow. Can't deal with it any longer. Its just too aggravating. Then the news today that its up to carriers to approve wether an update gets sent to phones even for security updates, what is this android? No clarification from at&t on wether what phones will receive updates let alone when, even though Microsoft has issued the update... So I would have to 'root' in order to be secure? Like android? Really? Even though that would void my warranty...
    as it sits the focus flash which I love has become unusable, every forum I go on the keyboard disappears. Useless. I wouldn't care if I knew the update was actually coming, but calling at&t they told me they have no information other than to return the devices tomorrow and they have credited me for the restocking fees. I was quite surprised as all I asked was when is the update coming since my phone is basically unusable because the keyboard constantly disappearing. The phone call was odd, here's $73 return your phones, we will contact you went we have more information....
    now I don't even want to return them mind you, I just want the keyboard to stay on the damn screen!
    01-07-2012 01:16 PM
  12. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    You're welcome. iPHone 11,625,000 units in a year in a half. If that's not a boom, IDK what is. While you are all bushy tailed and bright eyed about the future of WP7, others don't share your optimism. Have a nice day!
    Thanks. Did you read my post?

    I can't be bothered writing any more or finding more figures, it's fairly clear that people want to have such a depressing outlook on things, I can't change that. I'll go back to quietly enjoying my phone and anticipating what is to come this year.
    And you do know that the iPhone was selling for full price, no $50 phones on contract, no one cent sales.
    Last edited by 1jaxstate1; 01-07-2012 at 01:27 PM.
    Premium1 likes this.
    01-07-2012 01:21 PM
  13. Premium1's Avatar
    That's not true. 60% of Americans still own feature phones while NOT owning a smartphone. It's still a huge market, but 2012 is key for Windows Phone. It has to sell at least 10 million to get a foothold in the market.
    Yes but what I was saying that when the iphone came out it was probably more like 85% without a smartphone.
    01-07-2012 01:38 PM
  14. Dave Blake's Avatar
    Hi guys

    I'm not sure if I'm alone in thinking this, and don't get me wrong I love my windows phone, but I can't help thinking that this lovely OS of ours is in danger of going stale.

    Microsoft seem to be spending more time pushing Mango (which although is creditable) they really need to be showing us what they are working on now, and ASAP.

    It seems an age since we first saw the first demos of Mango and new features that had been implemented, the drawn out wait for it's arrival, and now the excitement has gone.
    You said it all "It seems an age since we first saw the first demos of Mango and new features that had been implemented" why you want Microsoft to advertise the upcoming upgrades then wait 6 months or a year for them to hit? You think your feeling stale now? Remember Windows Phone is still barely an infant be patient there are good things to come.

    Technology moves on so fast, and already Mango is outdated, the Facebook & Twitter integration is getting out of date with all the new features they've added recently. Top app developers are losing interest (Mehdoh & Metrotube). Still no news from the likes of Audible or Skype.
    Lazy worm isn't pulling out of App development they just don't like there options for getting high quality video from U-Tube. They dont want you to buy an app then have it not work anymore if something changes. There is more information in this article http://www.windowscentral.com/node/9421 As for Mehdoh MEH here is the article http://www.windowscentral.com/node/9516

    I love the OS, but really want to see where it's going, it's time for MS to start showing the enthusiasts what to expect from Tango & Apollo.

    It doesn't help that the second wave of devices so far have hardly pushed the boat out hardware wise. I'm due an upgrade in May, and as yet there's nothing to really get excited about (apart from maybe the Ace) It feels like all the innovation is going elsewhere.
    I'm excited about Nokia I can't wait to get my hands on an ACE expect me to be at the front of the line the day they hit at&t. I do however see your point but I really think its not that the technology is going elsewhere I think it's more that device makers are being conservative or more like developing devices suitable to what the platform needs. Really the number of people out there that would run out and pay full price for a dual core techno beast are few you and I would do but the majority of people are just looking for a good device at a reasonable price. I fear we will see many more of those and fewer tech monster devices in the future although I hope I am wrong.

    Metro in design, whilst beautiful and amazingly functional I feel is holding the platform back for developers. Everything is too big! You see devices such as the Titan, and they are really not being used to their full potential, how about a subset of Metro? scale it down, allow more bells & whistles. iOS has (albeit basic) video editing options, are we going to get anything like this? I can't imagine so. The options and the possibilities have to be there for every type of user, and the restrictive nature of WP in it's current form I think is turning developers away.

    Staying positive & hoping for something exciting soon!
    I would rather Microsoft restrict some things and keep the OS functional that doesn't mean that I am okay with all the restrictions either. I think Microsoft will loosen its grip in the future and has already started down that road to an extent. The suggestion Box app is a good example of that Microsoft is listening I think they will give us what we want but not at the cost of a lesser user experience and I'm okay with that. Is this OS getting stale? To us OS fanatics sure it is we always want more should they give us more? Sometimes its better to let the calmer heads prevail when making those decisions so be patient the sun will rise I see great things coming down the road and I am excited about the future.
    mprice86 likes this.
    01-07-2012 02:03 PM
  15. Big Supes's Avatar
    :) Oh no, I wont be making any decisions now, in this instance anyway it wouldn't be a switch, just an addition. TBH this is the first time I've ever thought about iOS - despite being a hefty Photoshop user, I stay clear of Apple if possible, I detest the likes of iTunes and the closed down system they have - but as long as I have a WP7 device as well I'll be a happy bunny.

    Yep it is as much about the optics, but also to me about MP - I need to take a lot of reference photos for the work I do, and not always have a proper camera with me, its important that I have a decent enough substitute. Of course I don't expect to do any proper work with a smartphone, but having a few simple options is nice.

    WP7 is still getting forgotten about - how many times do you see apps being released for iOS and Android, with WP7 as "coming soon" or not at all? There are some really talented developers that have made some awesome apps for WP7, and it's been disappointing to see a couple drop development in the last few weeks.

    Sad thing is, perhaps had it been another platform, their products would have been bought up by the big guns.
    You NEED to check out the Titan II.

    01-09-2012 04:19 PM
  16. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    Let me start out by saying that I don't think the WP7 Metro UI is stale in the least.

    That said, I do have fears about it's long term "freshness". When the iPhone came out (5 years ago today, btw), it was fresh and different and new. Now, it looks the same and I think it looks stale. Now, WP7 phones look fresh and exciting and new but how will it hold up over time? I think in a few years, people will be complaining that WP9(?) phones just look like a grid of big squares and it is boring. If that happens, I don't know what MS will do to change the look but keep the smooth interface but we'll see.

    And as the market has shown, just because I find a UI boring doesn't mean it won't sell like crazy. As I said, I find iOS boring now but it's selling like hotcakes. I guess we'll see.
    01-09-2012 04:40 PM
  17. Reflexx's Avatar
    Let me start out by saying that I don't think the WP7 Metro UI is stale in the least.

    That said, I do have fears about it's long term "freshness". When the iPhone came out (5 years ago today, btw), it was fresh and different and new. Now, it looks the same and I think it looks stale. Now, WP7 phones look fresh and exciting and new but how will it hold up over time? I think in a few years, people will be complaining that WP9(?) phones just look like a grid of big squares and it is boring. If that happens, I don't know what MS will do to change the look but keep the smooth interface but we'll see.

    And as the market has shown, just because I find a UI boring doesn't mean it won't sell like crazy. As I said, I find iOS boring now but it's selling like hotcakes. I guess we'll see.
    I don't think it's necessarily the tiles themselves that make it look fresh and new. Sure, they are different, but they are still just tiles.

    But the "live" part is what does it. The small things. The little animations. The flipping. The emoticon on the text message tile changing. The slight bounce when you get to the end of a page or when you let the lock screen drop from different heights.

    It's the animation. Animation is life.
    01-09-2012 04:55 PM
  18. selfcreation's Avatar
    Let me start out by saying that I don't think the WP7 Metro UI is stale in the least.

    That said, I do have fears about it's long term "freshness". When the iPhone came out (5 years ago today, btw), it was fresh and different and new. Now, it looks the same and I think it looks stale. Now, WP7 phones look fresh and exciting and new but how will it hold up over time? I think in a few years, people will be complaining that WP9(?) phones just look like a grid of big squares and it is boring. If that happens, I don't know what MS will do to change the look but keep the smooth interface but we'll see.

    And as the market has shown, just because I find a UI boring doesn't mean it won't sell like crazy. As I said, I find iOS boring now but it's selling like hotcakes. I guess we'll see.

    i think the fact that LIVE TILEs features are getting better and better , it will NEVER go stale.... LIVE tiles allows for so much to be changed . you cant really compare it to a STATIC Iphone UI. or even the Android STATIC UI.

    Metro is Unique and the fact that its constantly changing ( its already different then Pre-mango) not to mention we are expecting some updates in Apollo witch will probly make it more interactive. and even if it doesn't ..

    its up to the DEVS to make the metro UI FUN and NOT Stale by adding more interactive live tiles ( all apps/games should have them )

    for example the TETRIS game we saw using the Metro UI shows you how much MORE it can do..
    01-09-2012 04:57 PM
  19. trivor's Avatar
    Actually, Android never get's stale because if you don't like it you can change it. WP7 is just as locked down as iOS except it doesn't have quite the user base. As for Live Tiles I find that Widgets (I have thousands of choices) are as/or more useful than Live Tiles. How about folders on my home screen (why doesn't WP7 allow that?). I and many others could go on and on - if WP7 doesn't pick up soon it will not be like XBox where MS can keep pouring money into it (eventually sell enough XBoxes) because manufacturers are not going to keep pouring resources into it (2nd Gen Samsung (Focus S) and HTC phones (Titan II) are bland and boring) if they can't make back their development costs. And Nokia is dropping like a rock (I don't care how successful the Lumia 900 is - they lost $1.7 billion and that $100 credit for all 900 users isn't going to help the bottom line). While it sounds good to develop brand loyalty there aren't enough users to make a difference. And while the iPhone helped ATT come back making ATT the premier partner isn't going to sell enough phones when ATT only has 30% of the market. I really hope WP8 get's some market share because then I might be able to switch to it.
    04-27-2012 06:07 AM
  20. canesfan625's Avatar
    TL;DR

    but whining about metro makes it hard to take you seriously. Compared to what? Peat and repeat that is iOS and Android? iOS has had the same UI for 5 years.
    04-27-2012 08:42 AM
  21. based_graham's Avatar
    iOS and Android UI is terrible so hard to find apps. What I like WP7 the most is that its consistent if I have to troubleshoot someone's phone I always know where settings is or where to find an app.
    04-27-2012 10:43 AM
  22. tekhna's Avatar
    iOS and Android UI is terrible so hard to find apps. What I like WP7 the most is that its consistent if I have to troubleshoot someone's phone I always know where settings is or where to find an app.
    lol what? iOS is literally nothing more than a grid of apps.
    04-27-2012 10:45 AM
  23. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Hard to find apps? Do you know your alphabet? Or are you incapable of scrolling left and right?
    iOS and Android UI is terrible so hard to find apps. What I like WP7 the most is that its consistent if I have to troubleshoot someone's phone I always know where settings is or where to find an app.
    04-27-2012 10:48 AM
  24. socialcarpet's Avatar
    It can always be a limited version, like what iOS does for older iOS devices... The gen 1 devices are already long in the tooth I doubt i can keep this HD7 until contract renewal. I can even scroll PDF files smoothly on the thing. It's getting frustrating :-(

    Really I want to go down to one phone, and the feature disparity is not working in wp7's favor there for me. I am going to ETF all my lines and move to AT&T next month so they have until then to dish sone details about Apollo, specs, and devices. They aren't in a position to be hush about this. Unproven platforms need to tell users what to look forward to...

    I won't hesitate to get an iOS or Android devices otherwise, and I won't look back cause I'm tired of holding back buying apps and media because of the potential platform migration.

    Basically my next purchase is going to determine what platform I use until that platform dies. I need future proof specs and functionality in the OS, not another raincheck like when I bought my HD7.

    Absolutely no more faith purchases. I'm over that.

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

    Based on this, I think you should go to Android or iOS.

    There's no way they are going to "dish some details" about Apollo, future devices or anything of the kind by next month. Forget that. It's not happening. They ARE in a position to be "hush" about this because most of the world doesn't even realize Windows Phone exists and probably 99% of the world doesn't know anything at all about Apollo. We are caught up in a tiny little cluster of WP enthusiasts, it's easy to lose sight of reality. WP has tiny marketshare. Almost NO ONE knows about Apollo even existing, much less when it's coming or has an opinion about which phones will get the updates.

    The most "future-proof" smartphone on the market is a new iPhone. Plenty of functionality there. Proven platform. No faith needed. Future support is guaranteed. Every app you will ever want is guaranteed. If these are your priorities, you don't want WP7 and it's no wonder why you come across as a near troll in every thread.

    It sounds like your priorities are not at all well-suited to a nascent platform with an uncertain future that is about to undergo a major shift to a whole new kernel.

    An iPhone 4S or the iPhone 5 if you can wait until fall, would be ideal for you IMO.
    theefman and cckgz4 like this.
    04-27-2012 12:13 PM
  25. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Is that you in the video that up on Androidcentral.com? LMFAO!!
    i think the fact that LIVE TILEs features are getting better and better , it will NEVER go stale.... LIVE tiles allows for so much to be changed . you cant really compare it to a STATIC Iphone UI. or even the Android STATIC UI.
    04-27-2012 03:26 PM
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