01-13-2012 12:02 PM
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  1. Premium1's Avatar
    I'm sure MS likes those royalties. But it's never been MS's intention to destroy Android.

    MS wants to expand the market. Increase its size. Get more feature phone converts oh board.

    There's enough room for 3 big players.
    I never said they wanted to destroy android, if they did that they would lose all the money they are getting from royalties off android. There is room for the big 3 I mean bb used to be in there a few years ago and just recently fell off the map.
    01-09-2012 10:26 AM
  2. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    As long as they making a profit, why even care if they #1 or #5. If the dev support is there and MS continues to push the OS, rank doesn't matter.
    jdevenberg likes this.
    01-09-2012 11:15 AM
  3. Reflexx's Avatar
    The only thing is like said before with the iphone being discounted and cheap androids most will go with what they know over something they never really heard of.
    It's true that most of the time people will go with what they know as opposed to what they never really heard of.

    That's likely why MS is mainly aiming at upgrading feature phone users. These people don't have something that they're already comfortable with.

    So the next part of course comes down to marketing and advertising. And with Hero phone status and Nokia's upcoming marketing binge, hopefully WP will become one of the phones that these customers have at least "heard of."
    01-09-2012 01:01 PM
  4. N8ter's Avatar
    1. It's not a small market. It's the fastest growing market.

    2. Cutting into someone else's market share is more difficult that getting a customer that hasn't' already committed to another ecosystem.

    3. If MS didn't really care, they wouldn't be in the game at all and would only stay with royalties. It's not like it's easy or cheap for them.
    @ #2 : The issue is that their ecosystem is inferior to Apple's, and not really all that much better than Google's (worse when you factor in App Stores) now that google has Music and Video stores launched.

    The lack of apps don't help, either.

    Remember that just because you sell someone a phone doesn't mean they won't show up very soon to return and/or exchange it.

    Carriers do NOT like returns, because it turns otherwise brand new phones into refurbished units.

    And most of the feature phone marketshare numbers people cite are over a year old or just blatantly incorrect. In the US, feature phones aren't nearly as strong as they used to be and I'm not even sure they're still even a majority of the market. Feature phones are more prominent in emerging market. Most people here would just get a Blackberry Curve with a minimal data plan in lieu of a feature phone given the choice.

    A lot of feature phone hold-overs are people who have really old and cheap cell phone plans that refuse to upgrade cause their bill would triple or quadruple.
    Premium1 likes this.
    01-09-2012 01:21 PM
  5. Reflexx's Avatar
    @ #2 : The issue is that their ecosystem is inferior to Apple's, and not really all that much better than Google's (worse when you factor in App Stores) now that google has Music and Video stores launched.

    The lack of apps don't help, either.
    Apple has had quite a while to perfect their ecosystem. For the amount of time MS has been working on this, they've already done quite a good job.

    Is everything as connected as well as it could potentially be? Not yet. Then again, until just a few months ago MS was strangled with the antitrust restrictions that didn't allow them to have their products integrate too strongly with each other.

    We can see that MS is laying the groundwork for Windows 8 tying in strongly with Windows Phone. We also see that XBOX is in the mix. Then there's Zune.

    It's already a strong ecosystem. Just not as smoothly flowing as Apple's yet. But this is just the beginning.

    Remember that just because you sell someone a phone doesn't mean they won't show up very soon to return and/or exchange it.

    Carriers do NOT like returns, because it turns otherwise brand new phones into refurbished units.
    Ok. But what are you saying this in reference to?

    And most of the feature phone marketshare numbers people cite are over a year old or just blatantly incorrect. In the US, feature phones aren't nearly as strong as they used to be and I'm not even sure they're still even a majority of the market. Feature phones are more prominent in emerging market. Most people here would just get a Blackberry Curve with a minimal data plan in lieu of a feature phone given the choice.
    Do you have newer data? I don't think that over the course of one year that the percentage of feature phone users compared to smart phone users has changed dramatically.

    A lot of feature phone hold-overs are people who have really old and cheap cell phone plans that refuse to upgrade cause their bill would triple or quadruple.
    True. And those people will likely remain feature phone users.

    But a lot of feature phone users are also people who are just intimidated by smart phones. Or they're young and don't have the income stream necessary yet to get a smart phone. Or just haven't had a compelling reason to switch yet.

    There are a lot of reasons people may still be feature phone users. There are also just as many reasons that many of them eventually upgrade.
    mprice86 likes this.
    01-09-2012 01:48 PM
  6. jdevenberg's Avatar
    I have to say, I think AT&T took a step towards changing the bias situation today. Yes, Android had 6 devices announced and there was only 1.5 Windows Phones (Titan II and mentions of the Nokia(s) coming later today), but Windows Phone got to headline. And they spent nearly the same amount of time on the 1.5 Windows Phones as they did on the 6 Androids.
    01-09-2012 02:05 PM
  7. mprice86's Avatar
    I have to say, I think AT&T took a step towards changing the bias situation today. Yes, Android had 6 devices announced and there was only 1.5 Windows Phones (Titan II and mentions of the Nokia(s) coming later today), but Windows Phone got to headline. And they spent nearly the same amount of time on the 1.5 Windows Phones as they did on the 6 Androids.
    It's a bit strange but over the last week or two there's been a definite increase in the amount of positive windows phone press. The NY Times had a really nice write up on it a few days ago as well, here.
    01-09-2012 02:35 PM
  8. lumic's Avatar
    The Galaxy Nexus lags. It's also got generally disgusting performance, pulling less than 10 frames per second on the mobile speed reading test. The GSII can achieve 17 and my Omnia 23.

    I've tried one now, and it's apparent to me that nothing has changed. It's ridiculous how the media and carriers are now caught up in Google's RDF.
    01-10-2012 04:24 AM
  9. Premium1's Avatar
    The Galaxy Nexus lags. It's also got generally disgusting performance, pulling less than 10 frames per second on the mobile speed reading test. The GSII can achieve 17 and my Omnia 23.

    I've tried one now, and it's apparent to me that nothing has changed. It's ridiculous how the media and carriers are now caught up in Google's RDF.
    Where exactly does it lag? I have one and it does not lag at all. I also have a trophy but not sure where you are saying the nexus lags.
    01-10-2012 10:58 AM
  10. N8ter's Avatar
    Smart phones aren't that expensive. They're a $15/mo overhead over feature phones assuming no feature phone data plan and starting out with a low tier data plan.

    People are activating millions of smartphones a day and it's just ridiculous to think most smartphone users are simply chain upgrading their phones.

    Carriers are also phasing out lots of feature phones in favor of cheap smartphones. There almost no reason to get a feature phone over a bb curve with a 200 mb data plan these days, for example.

    With the way social dynamics are changing those devices are falling outbid favor. I can guarantee you that feature phones are not 75% of the market here like they were a couple years ago. It is SIGNIFICANTLY less than that.

    Just look at holiday smartphone sales.

    Also most people do not buy a smartphone based on what pc OS they use. They could care less what windows 8 brings. Most general consumers won't even upgrade their of OS until they get a new computer or the old one dies. It's always been that way. That is why XP still has such high market share.

    Personally I think discontinuing the Zune HD PMPs was a bad idea. They were cheap and a cheap wifi only device could have been a nice springboard to getting people on the platform (think itouch, galaxy player). Give consumers something cheap and let them lock themselves in.

    And 32/64 GB phones :-)


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    01-10-2012 01:11 PM
  11. scottcraft's Avatar
    Where exactly does it lag? I have one and it does not lag at all. I also have a trophy but not sure where you are saying the nexus lags.
    I played with one and I wouldn't say it lags, but it's not fluid. I was impressed with the software though.

    Sent from my mwp6985 using Board Express
    01-10-2012 07:23 PM
  12. snowmutt's Avatar
    Wow. Somtimes a thread can get a life of it's own, can't it? What started as a thread on reps not supporting Windows Phones ended up being a discussion on what market segment WP can get. And by the way: I love WP Central because very rarely is there anyone taking cheap shots at each other even as they disagree. In the internet world, that is unheard of. Thumbs up to everyone.

    First off: Welcome gavinsane. And I hope your Dad gets years of use from his HD7. Your experience is sadly not new, but happily getting better. I choose not to go to my AT&T store in my hometown, but instead hit one in Champaign IL due to their knowledge of WP. Not all sales reps are good, but they are improving. As for the huge electronic stores, I have zero use for them. I lost my mind at a Best Buy last year when I heard a salesman telling a middle age couple to not get the Blackberry that they wanted because they were bought out recently and didn't even make their own phones anymore. Just appalling.

    As for marketshare, WP better be aiming for the sky and trying to get everyone. They are still in single digit sales worldwide, and that is plain their fault for not competing harder. Yes, they can get the feature phone crowd. They can get a portion of the Blackberry crowd that is leaving in huge numbers. They can get Android users. How, you say? Low end Android users are not all happy. There are a ton of horrid Android phones out there, and Microsoft can very well push to them how much better WP is as an experience.

    No, they cannot get iPhone fanatics. But, no one can. No, they will not get the user on Android who is a heavy tech fanatic. Android's open source allows for tech advancement faster than WP ever will. And right now, WP will not get the app-driven consumer. 50,000 apps in one year is great, but can't compare to Android and iOS. And unless MS starts to allow and maybe require higher end WPs to have better storage (32gbs), they will be hard pressed to get the music/gamers/movie watching crowd.

    But other than those four groups, WP can take ANY user away. It is that good, in my humble unimportant opinion. Microsoft just has to get after it.
    Last edited by snowmutt; 01-10-2012 at 07:48 PM.
    01-10-2012 07:41 PM
  13. Silverdogz's Avatar
    I am one of those movie watching, streaming person. 16 GB is plenty for me. I really only crackdown on what apps I keep and don't keep.

    Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
    snowmutt likes this.
    01-10-2012 08:40 PM
  14. snowmutt's Avatar
    I am one of those movie watching, streaming person. 16 GB is plenty for me. I really only crackdown on what apps I keep and don't keep.

    Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
    Wow. I am already wrong, and it is only one post later. That may be a record even for me. Hope other "streaming" users look at the experience on WP over the storage like you did, Silverdogz. I bet it is as seamless as the rest of WP.
    Silverdogz likes this.
    01-11-2012 03:56 PM
  15. Silverdogz's Avatar
    Wow. I am already wrong, and it is only one post later. That may be a record even for me. Hope other "streaming" users look at the experience on WP over the storage like you did, Silverdogz. I bet it is as seamless as the rest of WP.
    I hope so.

    Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
    01-11-2012 04:32 PM
  16. dbld_INDY's Avatar
    i guess windows phone users are the only hope for windows phone to correct the wrong
    I think if we and our wp phone enthuistists try this process one a day over the next month. We might see nice windows phones on both Sprint and Verizon.

    This was tonight on let's say Verizone's self help chat.


    Please hold for a Verizon Wireless sales representative to assist you with your order. Thank you for your patience.

    You are now chatting with 'Natonia'

    Natonia: Hello. Thank you for visiting our chat service. May I help you with your order today?

    You: hello

    Natonia: Hi.

    You: a guy from work said a lot of very cools windows phones were comming out this week. I only see on on your web site? is this right.

    You: should I be looking under another page?

    Natonia: I will be more than happy to assist you. We have the HTC trophy that is a windows phone.

    You: ya, but that one came out last summer. there were some new ones due out from either Nokia and HTC, they did not let you get any of them to sell;?

    You: that does not sound fair. you should get the good stuff too. should'nt u?

    You: Buying a HTC trophy is like trying to get a two year old Iphone. not that interesting.

    Natonia: Yes, I understand your concern and wish I had access to updates on phones that may come out. I can assist you with what is offered online now.

    You: do you think that some day they will let you buy so so you can sell some too?

    Natonia: To make sure that I understand, do you mind rephrasing your question?

    You: you are real good company too, right?

    Natonia: Yes, we have great, reliable service.

    You: do you think that Nokia and HTC will let Verozone buy the new phones so that you can then sell them to me?

    Natonia: I have no access to that type of information but can give you the number to customer care to see if that are able to verify that.

    Natonia: I assist with ordering steps online.

    You: OK, thanks for your help, hopefully you will some day have a great windows phone I would be happy to call my own.

    Very simple. we get 300000 other folks to do this once a day takes about 1o min on both sprint and verizon. The great phones that ATT gobbeled up will come to us by Mobile World Congress. Fight the POWER !:):):):):):):):):):):):):)
    01-11-2012 09:30 PM
  17. Premium1's Avatar
    I think if we and our wp phone enthuistists try this process one a day over the next month. We might see nice windows phones on both Sprint and Verizon.

    This was tonight on let's say Verizone's self help chat.


    Please hold for a Verizon Wireless sales representative to assist you with your order. Thank you for your patience.

    You are now chatting with 'Natonia'

    Natonia: Hello. Thank you for visiting our chat service. May I help you with your order today?

    You: hello

    Natonia: Hi.

    You: a guy from work said a lot of very cools windows phones were comming out this week. I only see on on your web site? is this right.

    You: should I be looking under another page?

    Natonia: I will be more than happy to assist you. We have the HTC trophy that is a windows phone.

    You: ya, but that one came out last summer. there were some new ones due out from either Nokia and HTC, they did not let you get any of them to sell;?

    You: that does not sound fair. you should get the good stuff too. should'nt u?

    You: Buying a HTC trophy is like trying to get a two year old Iphone. not that interesting.

    Natonia: Yes, I understand your concern and wish I had access to updates on phones that may come out. I can assist you with what is offered online now.

    You: do you think that some day they will let you buy so so you can sell some too?

    Natonia: To make sure that I understand, do you mind rephrasing your question?

    You: you are real good company too, right?

    Natonia: Yes, we have great, reliable service.

    You: do you think that Nokia and HTC will let Verozone buy the new phones so that you can then sell them to me?

    Natonia: I have no access to that type of information but can give you the number to customer care to see if that are able to verify that.

    Natonia: I assist with ordering steps online.

    You: OK, thanks for your help, hopefully you will some day have a great windows phone I would be happy to call my own.

    Very simple. we get 300000 other folks to do this once a day takes about 1o min on both sprint and verizon. The great phones that ATT gobbeled up will come to us by Mobile World Congress. Fight the POWER !:):):):):):):):):):):):):)
    Not to be a grammar nazi but with all those errors and misspellings I am surprised she could even read what you wrote.
    dbld_INDY likes this.
    01-11-2012 09:55 PM
  18. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    I'm generally the bastion of information with phones amongst my friends (although I do have other techy friends, one of whom swears by his iPhone 4 and Xperia Play and calls WP <CENSORED>), and as someone who has used 4 of the major smartphone platforms (iOS, BB OS, Android, and Windows Phone), I am in a strong position to know who suits what.

    Surprisingly, many of my friends would suit a Windows Phone, and am generally happy to recommend them. The speed of my TITAN and lack of lag is amazing for many of those friends. In fact, one of my friends recently got himself the HTC Radar. (And I may have also converted my Android-using best friend to Windows Phone, as opposed to her getting an iPhone)

    Here in the UK, carriers like to push the iPhone like it's going out of fashion (see what I did there؟) and for those who can't/won't get an iPhone for whatever reason, they heavily push Android. In fact, I've heard people openly blast my HTC TITAN for being laggy, despite me showing them it isn't! Could they be scared fanboys‽
    Last edited by paladinleeds; 01-12-2012 at 12:43 AM.
    01-12-2012 12:34 AM
  19. MastrMeatWad's Avatar
    I never really saw many people with a palm and bb was only something people used because at first that was the best available. Most of the girls and those who had a bb switched as soon as the iphone was available they only had a bb because nothing else was available. 99% of people know what they want when they go into store and no matter what the rep says will not change their minds. Trust me I see it all the time. Maybe in your area some like wp but since last year I have seen 3 people with a wp and I am around various groups of people through work. It used to be mainly bb now it is iphones and android. People want "cool phones" and unless the other carriers start getting high end wp devices most will not pick say a trophy over a iphone or android even if it may perform on par with the android and iphones.
    I disagree. My sister is a common example. She has very average tech IQ (one way to put it-she doesn't know much about phones) and went into buy a WP7 phone. The rep WOULDN"T show her the phone and told her it is buggy and sold her an android phone. Average consumer takes the Reps (who they believe are the experts) 'opinions' as fact. WP7 is doomed unless carriers change the tactics.
    01-12-2012 10:37 AM
  20. Premium1's Avatar
    I disagree. My sister is a common example. She has very average tech IQ (one way to put it-she doesn't know much about phones) and went into buy a WP7 phone. The rep WOULDN"T show her the phone and told her it is buggy and sold her an android phone. Average consumer takes the Reps (who they believe are the experts) 'opinions' as fact. WP7 is doomed unless carriers change the tactics.
    Well if the carriers won't even show a phone then yeah it won't sell. The reps in my area don't really push one phone over another, they more ask what the person wants and if they are unsure they usually ask what they use the phone for mostly and go from there. To know they don't push just android and iphones the rep one time tried to sell me a bb..
    01-12-2012 10:42 AM
  21. skillit0's Avatar

    Here in the UK, carriers like to push the iPhone like it's going out of fashion (see what I did there؟) and for those who can't/won't get an iPhone for whatever reason, they heavily push Android. In fact, I've heard people openly blast my HTC TITAN for being laggy, despite me showing them it isn't! Could they be scared fanboys‽

    I agree with this. I took a long time before making my decision for the arrive in the states and every sprint store I went to did not know how to even work the arrive. I had to practically show the Reps how to use the phone. The good thing was that it was on display right in the midst of all the other phones.

    I ended up getting my phone from a Best Buy. They are still alittle biased but they have more knowledge there from what I can tell.
    01-12-2012 11:21 AM
  22. GarpWP's Avatar
    I have a friend who is a regional IT manager for a major mobile carrier and he is "forbidden to use the windows phone". He is able to choose any other phone/OS he wants except the WP.

    I am guessing there are a few behind the scenes inter-corporate issues that need to be hashed out. But that's just my guess.
    01-12-2012 01:51 PM
  23. Reflexx's Avatar
    I have a friend who is a regional IT manager for a major mobile carrier and he is "forbidden to use the windows phone". He is able to choose any other phone/OS he wants except the WP.

    I am guessing there are a few behind the scenes inter-corporate issues that need to be hashed out. But that's just my guess.
    Come on... you could tell us who this major mobile carrier is! It's not like you're revealing what region your friend works in.
    01-12-2012 02:58 PM
  24. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    I agree with this. I took a long time before making my decision for the arrive in the states and every sprint store I went to did not know how to even work the arrive. I had to practically show the Reps how to use the phone. The good thing was that it was on display right in the midst of all the other phones.

    I ended up getting my phone from a Best Buy. They are still alittle biased but they have more knowledge there from what I can tell.
    Haha, I read reviews, etc, and was set on the TITAN (as I wanted to try WP7, only the TITAN had everything I wanted that was from HTC). I went into the store, and said I want the TITAN. No fannying about, I went in and from the word go that rep knew I was getting a HTC TITAN, whether she liked it or not. It was a case of the tone in my voice was "You can either sell me a HTC TITAN or Carphone Warehouse won't get my money". Think I scared the poor rep half to death. Feel slightly bad about that, she was a lovely rep.
    01-13-2012 12:02 PM
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