The Anti-WP7 carrier bias continues.

[Reflexx]

Except the investors wouldn't like that and they will still make some(albeit small extra $$ off of wp7 even with android royalties off the charts). Plus why give something up when you charge the OEM's 10-15 per wp handset they make even if it isn't taking off like android and ios it is still more money padding the exec's pockets, doesn't mean they are fully behind it.

I'm sure MS likes those royalties. But it's never been MS's intention to destroy Android.

MS wants to expand the market. Increase its size. Get more feature phone converts oh board.

There's enough room for 3 big players.

 

[Rhody#WP]

I'm sure MS likes those royalties. But it's never been MS's intention to destroy Android.

MS wants to expand the market. Increase its size. Get more feature phone converts oh board.

There's enough room for 3 big players.

I agree. I don't think Microsoft is necessarily trying to knock off Android, or even iPhone. There are enough users to carve out a niche and get 15-25% of the market. That might be enough to get people using Live services, Bing, Office, Xbox Live, and Windows 7. Then see where it goes from there.

 

[TheWeeBear]

Apt for this thread I think, made me smile.

 

[Siah1214]

It's funny cause I walked into an AT&T store the other day to talk about internet options and while I was there I asked if they had the HTC Titan. The rep raved over the phone and Windows phones and said that most of the people in that store agreed that in a few years it would be an iOS and Windows Phone market and Android was going to become a niche market.
So, I guess it goes both ways.

 

[Premium1]

I disagree.

Most regular consumers are looking for bang for buck. They want something inexpensive but will still give them the smartphone experience.

That is how Android has gained so much success. Most consumers didn't end up getting the high end Android phones that they saw in commercials. They got something affordable. Something under $100 with a 2 yr contract. What they liked about Android was that it was the same OS that they saw on the expensive phones, but at an affordable price.

So I do agree that MS does need to have some expensive hero phones. I think the Titan (and soon the 900) are good for that. And after the big marketing push, consumers may walk into a store and see those cool phones and also see that there are budget alternatives running software that looks the same as the ones on the cool phones. But the big difference between WP and Android will be that even the WP budget phones run buttery smooth and fast.

The only thing is like said before with the iphone being discounted and cheap androids most will go with what they know over something they never really heard of.

 

[Premium1]

I'm sure MS likes those royalties. But it's never been MS's intention to destroy Android.

MS wants to expand the market. Increase its size. Get more feature phone converts oh board.

There's enough room for 3 big players.

I never said they wanted to destroy android, if they did that they would lose all the money they are getting from royalties off android. There is room for the big 3 I mean bb used to be in there a few years ago and just recently fell off the map.

 

[1jaxstate1]

As long as they making a profit, why even care if they #1 or #5. If the dev support is there and MS continues to push the OS, rank doesn't matter.

 

[Reflexx]

The only thing is like said before with the iphone being discounted and cheap androids most will go with what they know over something they never really heard of.

It's true that most of the time people will go with what they know as opposed to what they never really heard of.

That's likely why MS is mainly aiming at upgrading feature phone users. These people don't have something that they're already comfortable with.

So the next part of course comes down to marketing and advertising. And with Hero phone status and Nokia's upcoming marketing binge, hopefully WP will become one of the phones that these customers have at least "heard of."

 

[N8ter]

1. It's not a small market. It's the fastest growing market.

2. Cutting into someone else's market share is more difficult that getting a customer that hasn't' already committed to another ecosystem.

3. If MS didn't really care, they wouldn't be in the game at all and would only stay with royalties. It's not like it's easy or cheap for them.

@ #2 : The issue is that their ecosystem is inferior to Apple's, and not really all that much better than Google's (worse when you factor in App Stores) now that google has Music and Video stores launched.

The lack of apps don't help, either.

Remember that just because you sell someone a phone doesn't mean they won't show up very soon to return and/or exchange it.

Carriers do NOT like returns, because it turns otherwise brand new phones into refurbished units.

And most of the feature phone marketshare numbers people cite are over a year old or just blatantly incorrect. In the US, feature phones aren't nearly as strong as they used to be and I'm not even sure they're still even a majority of the market. Feature phones are more prominent in emerging market. Most people here would just get a Blackberry Curve with a minimal data plan in lieu of a feature phone given the choice.

A lot of feature phone hold-overs are people who have really old and cheap cell phone plans that refuse to upgrade cause their bill would triple or quadruple.

 

[Reflexx]

@ #2 : The issue is that their ecosystem is inferior to Apple's, and not really all that much better than Google's (worse when you factor in App Stores) now that google has Music and Video stores launched.

The lack of apps don't help, either.

Apple has had quite a while to perfect their ecosystem. For the amount of time MS has been working on this, they've already done quite a good job.

Is everything as connected as well as it could potentially be? Not yet. Then again, until just a few months ago MS was strangled with the antitrust restrictions that didn't allow them to have their products integrate too strongly with each other.

We can see that MS is laying the groundwork for Windows 8 tying in strongly with Windows Phone. We also see that XBOX is in the mix. Then there's Zune.

It's already a strong ecosystem. Just not as smoothly flowing as Apple's yet. But this is just the beginning.

Remember that just because you sell someone a phone doesn't mean they won't show up very soon to return and/or exchange it.

Carriers do NOT like returns, because it turns otherwise brand new phones into refurbished units.

Ok. But what are you saying this in reference to?

And most of the feature phone marketshare numbers people cite are over a year old or just blatantly incorrect. In the US, feature phones aren't nearly as strong as they used to be and I'm not even sure they're still even a majority of the market. Feature phones are more prominent in emerging market. Most people here would just get a Blackberry Curve with a minimal data plan in lieu of a feature phone given the choice.

Do you have newer data? I don't think that over the course of one year that the percentage of feature phone users compared to smart phone users has changed dramatically.

A lot of feature phone hold-overs are people who have really old and cheap cell phone plans that refuse to upgrade cause their bill would triple or quadruple.

True. And those people will likely remain feature phone users.

But a lot of feature phone users are also people who are just intimidated by smart phones. Or they're young and don't have the income stream necessary yet to get a smart phone. Or just haven't had a compelling reason to switch yet.

There are a lot of reasons people may still be feature phone users. There are also just as many reasons that many of them eventually upgrade.

 

[jdevenberg]

I have to say, I think AT&T took a step towards changing the bias situation today. Yes, Android had 6 devices announced and there was only 1.5 Windows Phones (Titan II and mentions of the Nokia(s) coming later today), but Windows Phone got to headline. And they spent nearly the same amount of time on the 1.5 Windows Phones as they did on the 6 Androids.

 

[mprice86]

I have to say, I think AT&T took a step towards changing the bias situation today. Yes, Android had 6 devices announced and there was only 1.5 Windows Phones (Titan II and mentions of the Nokia(s) coming later today), but Windows Phone got to headline. And they spent nearly the same amount of time on the 1.5 Windows Phones as they did on the 6 Androids.

It's a bit strange but over the last week or two there's been a definite increase in the amount of positive windows phone press. The NY Times had a really nice write up on it a few days ago as well, here.

 

[lumic]

The Galaxy Nexus lags. It's also got generally disgusting performance, pulling less than 10 frames per second on the mobile speed reading test. The GSII can achieve 17 and my Omnia 23.

I've tried one now, and it's apparent to me that nothing has changed. It's ridiculous how the media and carriers are now caught up in Google's RDF.

 

[Premium1]

The Galaxy Nexus lags. It's also got generally disgusting performance, pulling less than 10 frames per second on the mobile speed reading test. The GSII can achieve 17 and my Omnia 23.

I've tried one now, and it's apparent to me that nothing has changed. It's ridiculous how the media and carriers are now caught up in Google's RDF.

Where exactly does it lag? I have one and it does not lag at all. I also have a trophy but not sure where you are saying the nexus lags.

 

[N8ter]

Smart phones aren't that expensive. They're a $15/mo overhead over feature phones assuming no feature phone data plan and starting out with a low tier data plan.

People are activating millions of smartphones a day and it's just ridiculous to think most smartphone users are simply chain upgrading their phones.

Carriers are also phasing out lots of feature phones in favor of cheap smartphones. There almost no reason to get a feature phone over a bb curve with a 200 mb data plan these days, for example.

With the way social dynamics are changing those devices are falling outbid favor. I can guarantee you that feature phones are not 75% of the market here like they were a couple years ago. It is SIGNIFICANTLY less than that.

Just look at holiday smartphone sales.

Also most people do not buy a smartphone based on what pc OS they use. They could care less what windows 8 brings. Most general consumers won't even upgrade their of OS until they get a new computer or the old one dies. It's always been that way. That is why XP still has such high market share.

Personally I think discontinuing the Zune HD PMPs was a bad idea. They were cheap and a cheap wifi only device could have been a nice springboard to getting people on the platform (think itouch, galaxy player). Give consumers something cheap and let them lock themselves in.

And 32/64 GB phones


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[scottcraft]

Where exactly does it lag? I have one and it does not lag at all. I also have a trophy but not sure where you are saying the nexus lags.

I played with one and I wouldn't say it lags, but it's not fluid. I was impressed with the software though.

Sent from my mwp6985 using Board Express

 

[snowmutt]

Wow. Somtimes a thread can get a life of it's own, can't it? What started as a thread on reps not supporting Windows Phones ended up being a discussion on what market segment WP can get. And by the way: I love WP Central because very rarely is there anyone taking cheap shots at each other even as they disagree. In the internet world, that is unheard of. Thumbs up to everyone.

First off: Welcome gavinsane. And I hope your Dad gets years of use from his HD7. Your experience is sadly not new, but happily getting better. I choose not to go to my AT&T store in my hometown, but instead hit one in Champaign IL due to their knowledge of WP. Not all sales reps are good, but they are improving. As for the huge electronic stores, I have zero use for them. I lost my mind at a Best Buy last year when I heard a salesman telling a middle age couple to not get the Blackberry that they wanted because they were bought out recently and didn't even make their own phones anymore. Just appalling.

As for marketshare, WP better be aiming for the sky and trying to get everyone. They are still in single digit sales worldwide, and that is plain their fault for not competing harder. Yes, they can get the feature phone crowd. They can get a portion of the Blackberry crowd that is leaving in huge numbers. They can get Android users. How, you say? Low end Android users are not all happy. There are a ton of horrid Android phones out there, and Microsoft can very well push to them how much better WP is as an experience.

No, they cannot get iPhone fanatics. But, no one can. No, they will not get the user on Android who is a heavy tech fanatic. Android's open source allows for tech advancement faster than WP ever will. And right now, WP will not get the app-driven consumer. 50,000 apps in one year is great, but can't compare to Android and iOS. And unless MS starts to allow and maybe require higher end WPs to have better storage (32gbs), they will be hard pressed to get the music/gamers/movie watching crowd.

But other than those four groups, WP can take ANY user away. It is that good, in my humble unimportant opinion. Microsoft just has to get after it.

 

[Silverdogz]

I am one of those movie watching, streaming person. 16 GB is plenty for me. I really only crackdown on what apps I keep and don't keep.

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

 

[snowmutt]

I am one of those movie watching, streaming person. 16 GB is plenty for me. I really only crackdown on what apps I keep and don't keep.

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

Wow. I am already wrong, and it is only one post later. That may be a record even for me. Hope other "streaming" users look at the experience on WP over the storage like you did, Silverdogz. I bet it is as seamless as the rest of WP.

 

[Silverdogz]

Wow. I am already wrong, and it is only one post later. That may be a record even for me. Hope other "streaming" users look at the experience on WP over the storage like you did, Silverdogz. I bet it is as seamless as the rest of WP.

I hope so.

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