01-20-2012 03:54 PM
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  1. freestaterocker's Avatar
    In answer to the question that started this thread, no. MS has too much $$ to allow it to happen. See: console gaming.
    aubreyq likes this.
    01-15-2012 06:53 PM
  2. freestaterocker's Avatar
    As an avid android fanboy I really hope WP7 is successful. Was really interested in them before even trying one out and when I did I liked it even more! Metro is very slick looking. Can't say I would switch from my Galaxy nexus though, I've been with android since the G1.


    Really wish Microsoft still made zunes, I would definitely buy one.
    I gotta say it's refreshing to hear this from a self-professed fandroid! I take a similar approach to my rabid wp7 fanboyism. Although I would rather go back to a feature phone than use an android or ios device, I hope they stick around for two reasons: 1 no one OS is gonna please everybody; and 2 competition makes everybody improve to stay in the game.
    aubreyq likes this.
    01-15-2012 07:15 PM
  3. condemned's Avatar
    Obviously WP7 isn't doomed to fail but I doubt it'll ever overtake iOS or Android. Their marketshare still isn't even close to beating BlackBerry which leaves them in 4th place and that saddens me since I believe WP7 is a better OS than BB.

    I'm guessing Microsoft has too much focus on the PC and even the Xbox before WP7.

    This OS is good but like Palm, it's not as popular as we'd all like it to be.

    I think iOS and Android will always be fighting for first place while WP7 fights for 3rd with BB in terms of marketshare/popularity.

    I hope Microsoft doesn't abandon it like they did Windows Mobile because this is actually a good OS.
    01-16-2012 05:31 PM
  4. condemned's Avatar
    As an avid android fanboy I really hope WP7 is successful. Was really interested in them before even trying one out and when I did I liked it even more! Metro is very slick looking. Can't say I would switch from my Galaxy nexus though, I've been with android since the G1.


    Really wish Microsoft still made zunes, I would definitely buy one.
    Same here

    I bought an HD7 around this time last year and liked the OS but it was still second to Android in my opinion and still is today. WP7 has gained a ton of support since its debut but it's still very, very far from iOS and Android.

    I went back to Android last year and I still hold interest in WP7 but right now if someone asked me if I would trade my Sensation for any WP7 out I would say no. And that's only because I prefer Android as of now.

    WP is a great OS but I think it coming out after iOS and Android have been so successful will prevent it from overtaking them. It'll always be fighting for 3rd with BB at this point.

    WP needs hardware that can match the newest iPhone and the top Android phones. It's come a long way in terms of features and support but it's still behind Android and iOS very much. Their apps being more expensive doesn't help either.

    Just look at the roadmaps. Android is already rumored to be coming out with quad core phones and even nicer screen technology that's better than 720p, qHD, and SA+ (all of which are already out on current Android phones). Obviously the next iPhone will also come out with new hardware. All the time while WP will just be releasing phones with hardware Android and iPhone have already had since a year prior. Of course the hardware is good but the better hardware will be more eye catching. This is why I think WP will continue to play catch up.
    Last edited by condemned ; 01-16-2012 at 05:47 PM.
    01-16-2012 05:39 PM
  5. Blacklac's Avatar
    It'll always be fighting for 3rd with BB at this point.
    Its got a ways to go before its even at that point. BB holds a solid 3rd. 2012 may bring WP closer, but BB has a great new Platform in QNX rolling out Q3 also. Blackberry's App World for their new OS is really taking off too, for the short time its been out. I would guess it nearly matches the quantity of WP Marketplace, but I think WP Marketplace has the lead in Quality. The BB Playbook does have some decent games though. RIM made sure to support all the major game engines.

    I honestly wouldn't be surprised if all 4 platforms were closer to leveling out overall marketshare, after this year. They all look to be strong platforms.
    01-16-2012 05:46 PM
  6. condemned's Avatar
    Its got a ways to go before its even at that point. BB holds a solid 3rd. 2012 may bring WP closer, but BB has a great new Platform in QNX rolling out Q3 also. Blackberry's App World for their new OS is really taking off too, for the short time its been out. I would guess it nearly matches the quantity of WP Marketplace, but I think WP Marketplace has the lead in Quality. The BB Playbook does have some decent games though. RIM made sure to support all the major game engines.

    I honestly wouldn't be surprised if all 4 platforms were closer to leveling out overall marketshare, after this year. They all look to be strong platforms.
    Yes I mentioned it's still got a long way to even passing BB (which is still one of the most popular mobile platforms).

    I thought 2010 would be the year RIM goes to **** but they showed that they could still hang with OS7 and now QNX is looking impressive. But I doubt either will overtake iOS or Android anytime soon. These are the top 4 platforms but I honestly see it like this for years down the road: iOS and Android fighting for the top spot with BB and WP7 fighting for the next spot.

    Microsoft doesn't have to be #1 but they could still get some good marketshare if they really make a good effort.
    01-16-2012 05:57 PM
  7. Reflexx's Avatar
    I think people are underestimating Nokia.

    I think that Nokia's ad campaign and solid devices will almost single-handedly propel WP into a solid #3 position by the end of the year. And the wave will bring along other WP OEMs along with it. Just like the Droid did for Android. Not only did the Droid sell well, but it brought along a lot of the other Android phones with it.

    I would not be surprised to see WP break 5% by the end of the year. And then 15% by the end of next year. By the end of 2014, WP will be right up there competing closely with iOS and Android with over 25%.
    aubreyq likes this.
    01-16-2012 05:59 PM
  8. condemned's Avatar
    I think people are underestimating Nokia.

    I think that Nokia's ad campaign and solid devices will almost single-handedly propel WP into a solid #3 position by the end of the year. And the wave will bring along other WP OEMs along with it. Just like the Droid did for Android. Not only did the Droid sell well, but it brought along a lot of the other Android phones with it.

    I would not be surprised to see WP break 5% by the end of the year. And then 15% by the end of next year. By the end of 2014, WP will be right up there competing closely with iOS and Android with over 25%.
    The difference is that back then the iPhone was on only one carrier and the top Android was exclusive to one carrier.

    Now we have top Android phones on all carriers and the iPhone is no longer exclusive to just one carrier.

    Also, Nokia is really popular outside the US, not so much in the states.
    01-16-2012 06:10 PM
  9. sr!'s Avatar
    I'm a wanna be wp7 convert. I'm almost there - like 90%. But reading negativity hurts, but I don't think I can go for another iOS device. And I hate anything google. That's my personal opinion so wouldn't go for android, and I really really like wp7.
    Darren Murph had only bad things to say on engadget podcast recently from CES - And this was after Nokia announcement. He predicts wp7 won't even b around in 3 years.
    Tom Warren in the verge wrote an article this morning about quality of apps in wp7, another sad negative promotion. I really hope MS can come out of the crappy advertisement from the media.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    Last edited by sr!; 01-16-2012 at 06:33 PM.
    01-16-2012 06:22 PM
  10. Reflexx's Avatar
    Nokia still has a very strong brand for consumers over the age of 33 or so. Not techies, but average people who had Nokia as their first phone. Most people in the US have no idea why Nokia almost disappeared in the US. But their memories are positive.

    As I said, I think people are underestimating Nokia.

    Even though Android and iOS are out there on multiple carriers, that does not exactly translate into brand loyalty. Many are willing to jump ship.

    Check out these recently released numbers.

    iPhone 4S inches Apple closer to Android in top market share | Apple - CNET News

    “Analyzing last year’s smartphone market, NPD found that iOS’s share surged to 43 percent in October and November from just 26 percent in the third quarter, thanks largely to demand for the iPhone 4S. Though Google’s mobile OS maintained its lead, its share dropped in October and November to 47 percent from 60 percent in the previous quarter.”


    Google = 47% (was 60%. Lost 13%)
    Apple = 43% (was 26%. Gained 17%)

    Those are big swings that happen in a very short period of time. There's a significant portion of the existing smartphone market that really has no loyalty to a particular product yet.

    There are many more feature phone users that are expected to upgrade to smartphones. This is an area that MS is targeting. And WP has some excellent cheap devices right now in the form of Gen 1 phones or phone like the Lumia 710.
    01-16-2012 06:25 PM
  11. condemned's Avatar
    I'm a wanna be wp7 convert. I'm almost there - like 90%. But reading negativity hurts, but I don't think I can go for another iOS device. And I hate anything google. That's my personal opinion so wouldn't go for android, and I really really like wp7.
    Darren Murphy had only bad things to say on engadget podcast recently from CES - And this was after Nokia announcement. He predicts wp7 won't even b around in 3 years.
    Tom Warren in the verge wrote an article this morning about quality of apps in wp7, another sad negative promotion. I really hope MS can come out of the crappy advertisement from the media.

    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    1st world problems

    Stop taking everything on the forums so seriously and go play with a phone in a store and base your opinion on that.
    01-16-2012 06:29 PM
  12. based_graham's Avatar
    Same here

    I bought an HD7 around this time last year and liked the OS but it was still second to Android in my opinion and still is today. WP7 has gained a ton of support since its debut but it's still very, very far from iOS and Android.

    I went back to Android last year and I still hold interest in WP7 but right now if someone asked me if I would trade my Sensation for any WP7 out I would say no. And that's only because I prefer Android as of now.

    WP is a great OS but I think it coming out after iOS and Android have been so successful will prevent it from overtaking them. It'll always be fighting for 3rd with BB at this point.

    WP needs hardware that can match the newest iPhone and the top Android phones. It's come a long way in terms of features and support but it's still behind Android and iOS very much. Their apps being more expensive doesn't help either.

    Just look at the roadmaps. Android is already rumored to be coming out with quad core phones and even nicer screen technology that's better than 720p, qHD, and SA+ (all of which are already out on current Android phones). Obviously the next iPhone will also come out with new hardware. All the time while WP will just be releasing phones with hardware Android and iPhone have already had since a year prior. Of course the hardware is good but the better hardware will be more eye catching. This is why I think WP will continue to play catch up.
    You can look at it that way but I look at it this way. The average consumer probably wont care if his/her phone is dual/quad core as long as the phone is fast, smooth and delivers a great experience.

    Didn't MS sign a deal with Qualcomm so whatever their flagship chip is going to be is probably what WP is going to run on. Say if MS doesn't reach quad core status by the end of this year dual core might actually provide them with some sort of advantage over its iOS and Android quadcore counterparts.

    Price is a big advantage. I am going to assume the flagship Android and iOS phones will retail at 199$ if WP flagship product can be sold at 149$ I bet WP is more appealing to the average user. The average user will probably have a mindset of "ehh I dont need quad core etc I am going to go with what works at a lower cost" or "ehh I dont think I want to spend 200$ on a iPhone when I can get a Lumia for 149$" As long as the WP are priced competitively against the Quad core super phones WP will do great!

    Low end phones. If Android and iOS keep going up the charts in hardware the low-end market will slowly open up to MS. If WP can provide that awesome low-end experience they will eat up alot of marketshare. Most likely the iPhone 4 will struggle running iPhone 5 apps and samething goes for low-end Androids.

    The way that WP is optimized low end handsets user experience is the same as its high end counterparts and I can see that attracting alot of people.

    So going quadcore might be awesome for power hungry users but dont count out lower spec dual cores and single cores to still compete. As of right now no phones beat the Samsung Focus Flash and Lumia 710 as budget phones.
    01-16-2012 07:28 PM
  13. rightontime's Avatar
    I gotta say it's refreshing to hear this from a self-professed fandroid! I take a similar approach to my rabid wp7 fanboyism. Although I would rather go back to a feature phone than use an android or ios device, I hope they stick around for two reasons: 1 no one OS is gonna please everybody; and 2 competition makes everybody improve to stay in the game.

    As much as I love android I'll be the first one to admit there is still a lot of problems with it. Competition is always good but sometimes I wish they can collaborate on things. Having Facetime, Gtalk, and I''m assuming skype for WP7 are all different video chatting services. While I'll probably never use video calling it would be nice if video calling was as easy as facetime across all phones.
    01-17-2012 08:08 AM
  14. mprice86's Avatar
    As much as I love android I'll be the first one to admit there is still a lot of problems with it. Competition is always good but sometimes I wish they can collaborate on things. Having Facetime, Gtalk, and I''m assuming skype for WP7 are all different video chatting services. While I'll probably never use video calling it would be nice if video calling was as easy as facetime across all phones.
    Current status on skype for Windows Phone is hazy at best but it's looking like it'll be an app first (soon, apparently) and then full OS integration with Apollo.

    @based_graham

    I would also add that the Tango update is supposedly adding compatibility with further low end devices so there is a strong possibility we'll see sub-200 handsets unlocked or free on contract before the summer. If Microsoft can get the OS running as well as it does now on lower end hardware then they could really be on to a winner with the current feature phone users.
    01-17-2012 11:53 AM
  15. based_graham's Avatar
    Current status on skype for Windows Phone is hazy at best but it's looking like it'll be an app first (soon, apparently) and then full OS integration with Apollo.

    @based_graham

    I would also add that the Tango update is supposedly adding compatibility with further low end devices so there is a strong possibility we'll see sub-200 handsets unlocked or free on contract before the summer. If Microsoft can get the OS running as well as it does now on lower end hardware then they could really be on to a winner with the current feature phone users.
    Cant wait hopefully we see Blackberry style devices
    01-17-2012 01:01 PM
  16. mullrat#WN's Avatar
    Windows Phone will not fail because it is based on architecture that is solid. MS has released dev tools that are easy to use. MS has historically been extremely accommodating to devs. The system is closed to a point but open enough to spawn innovation. It is amazing how well it runs with specs that are older.

    Honestly, the only way it will fail is being torpedoed by carriers ala palm, and bad marketing ala.. palm i guess.

    MS will eventually just steamroll into relevance like they have done since their beginning. Think Windows, Exchange, Office, Xbox, and now WP7. All these products sucked at first but they're gonna put truckloads of money into it and constantly iterate. And they will win in the end.
    01-17-2012 01:05 PM
  17. N8ter's Avatar
    You can look at it that way but I look at it this way. The average consumer probably wont care if his/her phone is dual/quad core as long as the phone is fast, smooth and delivers a great experience.

    Didn't MS sign a deal with Qualcomm so whatever their flagship chip is going to be is probably what WP is going to run on. Say if MS doesn't reach quad core status by the end of this year dual core might actually provide them with some sort of advantage over its iOS and Android quadcore counterparts.
    How is Dual Core going to provide them with some sort of advantage? iOS runs find on a single core processor, as seen with the iPhone 4 and its A4 processor (which is related to the Hummingbird in 1st Gen Galaxy S devices). Good Android Phones fly on Dual Core devices. Do you somehow forsee some ridiculous performance degradation in Android and iOS moving from Dual to Quad Core? Apple's next iPhone may very well be Quad Core with LTE...

    Price is a big advantage. I am going to assume the flagship Android and iOS phones will retail at 199$ if WP flagship product can be sold at 149$ I bet WP is more appealing to the average user. The average user will probably have a mindset of "ehh I dont need quad core etc I am going to go with what works at a lower cost" or "ehh I dont think I want to spend 200$ on a iPhone when I can get a Lumia for 149$" As long as the WP are priced competitively against the Quad core super phones WP will do great!
    You're looking at it wrong.

    High end WP7 devices retail at $200 on contract - promotions notwithstanding. That's the same price as a 16 GB iPhone 4S and roughly the same as a Galaxy S II, which is the best selling Android phone on every carrier that carries it. Low end phones are more Analogous to Last-Gen Android devices (like the G2X, Sensation) and the iPhone 4, which are either [on the brink of] EOL or at $99. The iPhone 3GS runs iOS5 for $0.01 on contract.

    AT&T still has some 16 and 32GB iPhone 4 devices left, available for $149/249 on contract.

    You don't buy a phone simply because it costs $50 cheaper. You consider all the variables. Hardware, Camera Quality, Music/Video Store, Platform it runs, App Store, etc. Even at $50 cheaper, the Lumia is an extremely hard sell vs the iPhone. Apple simply has a much better ecosystem and the device is built in a way that warrants the price. iPhones can also sell very high a year after purchase, used... The same cannot be said for any Windows Phone.

    Low end phones. If Android and iOS keep going up the charts in hardware the low-end market will slowly open up to MS. If WP can provide that awesome low-end experience they will eat up alot of marketshare. Most likely the iPhone 4 will struggle running iPhone 5 apps and samething goes for low-end Androids.
    You're wrong. Android high end devices always drop down to mid-range pricing when they are being phased out (upgrades have been released), and Android manufacturers release a ton of mid-range devices.

    Additionally, Apple always drops down the earlier generation iPhones to Mid-Range pricing when they release a new model. That market is just as crowded as the high end due to both this and the fact that Android manufacturers release a ton of high end devices. That means they are always phasing out previous high end models and the best way to get rid of inventory is to drop their prices down.

    The way that WP is optimized low end handsets user experience is the same as its high end counterparts and I can see that attracting alot of people.
    That's both a positive and a negative. It means that someone with a Gen 1 device has little incentive to upgrade or even recommend the newer devices - which cost as much as any other device - because there is little benefit in doing so.

    It also means WP7 devices look cheap compared to high end iOS and Android devices. Perception matters.

    So going quadcore might be awesome for power hungry users but dont count out lower spec dual cores and single cores to still compete. As of right now no phones beat the Samsung Focus Flash and Lumia 710 as budget phones.
    Not every iOS and Android device is Dual Core, and not every Android and iOS device will be quad core. And that's a bold statement, especially when you can get much better Android, iOS, or even WP7 devices (at least in terms of Camera, Screen, or Storage Capacity) and get a lot more value out of your data plan and a contract term.

    The reason why a lot of people ignore low end devices is because they are bad value for people who purchase phones on contracts. If you're gonna go that route, you're better off just buying the phone cheap off contract and just going pre-paid. In that case, you will pay more than you would for an on-contract 32 (and maybe even 64) GB iPhone 4S and a contract Galaxy S II, Amaze 4G, or similar device.

    It does not help that relatively decent devices like the Atrix 4G are practically free on contract, either, on some carriers. But that goes back to my statement about previous high end models obtaining mid-range pricing, with twice the specs of those low end WP7 devices...

    On top of that, you also have to convince users to get WP7 in lieu of all of their friends using other devices with services locked to that platform (GTalk + Video Chat, FaceTime, iMessage, BBM) or Apps which are not yet available on WP7. It's really hard to sell, especially to the younger crowd - which [here] seem to have quite a bit of influence on what the older crowd considers because now parents are looking to their kids for advice and input on many things technological.
    01-17-2012 01:54 PM
  18. KingCrimson's Avatar
    It's really hard to sell, especially to the younger crowd - which [here] seem to have quite a bit of influence on what the older crowd considers because now parents are looking to their kids for advice and input on many things technological.
    Yup and their answer will be either iPhone 4S or Galaxy SII. No kid would want to be caught dead in school with a Windows Phone right now.
    01-17-2012 01:59 PM
  19. QuadForce's Avatar
    I think with the introduction of windows 8 windows phone has a great opportunity to grow. I have a feeling big things are on the way.

    Sent from my mwp6985 using Board Express
    01-17-2012 02:02 PM
  20. Reflexx's Avatar
    Perception does matter.

    A lot of WP's short term success may hinge on the Nokia advertising push.

    In the long term, even without short term success, I believe that WP is almost destined to be a strong player. As was stated above by mullrat, MS has a pattern of introducing a product and consistently improving it until it becomes a big player.

    I see WP like the original XBOX. And I would imagine that many of the people who believe that WP is doomed to fail are the same type that made those predictions about the XBOX.
    aubreyq and mprice86 like this.
    01-17-2012 02:04 PM
  21. N8ter's Avatar
    Can't really speak for long-term, and seriously cannot speak about Windows 8/Apollo becuase that's simply too far out. That's after another iPhone redesign and at least 1 major Android OS update and 20 ICS devices.

    And WP7 is nothing like the Original XBox. Consoles are just too different a market. Going from iOS to WP7 can potentially negate hundreds of dollars in purchases becuase not many consumers carry around two smartphones with two active SIMs like me (unless for work, and they aren't blowing cash on apps and accessories for a work phone, you know). When they buy a new phone, the old one is a backup just in case the new one breaks/needs to be replaced. Outside of that, it sits in a box collecting dust.

    That's not to mention Accessories (Docks, Expensive Stereo Systems with iDevice Docks integrated, Sports and Health Monitoring Equipment, Apple TVs, Macs to go along with their shiny iDevices, iPads, WiFi Speaker Systems controllable with the iPhones... Friend of mine has a WiFi thermostat he controls with his iPhone now, etc.), Apps, Games, and simply not wanting to "learn to use another phone" after having used another OS for potentially years...

    That's assuming they don't sell it.

    With consoles many people still kept and played the older console, and the functionality of that console was not tied to a SIM card (or whatever the CDMA equivalent is). It was just another smartphone.

    Microsoft cannot buy their way into the smartphone market the way they did into the console market, and they did not have "first go" advantage over the competition the way they did with the XBox 360 (releasing it almost a year before the PS3 and having Sony shoot themselves in the head with pricing - despite the PS3 being the more capable console [web browser, flash, USB OTG, BluRay, Specs, etc.]). This market and this situation is completely different. It's not even comparable.

    If Sony had released the PS3 in the same timeframe with comparable pricing, they could have killed Microsoft especially with the types of hardware failures plaguing XB360 systems after release. They should thank Sony for that. That also gave the XB360 a leg up with developers (notwithstanding the PS3 is a ***** to develop for, especially if you want top tier games like Uncharted).
    01-18-2012 02:22 AM
  22. Reflexx's Avatar
    WP and XBOX don't have to be the same. The point is that MS will continue to improve the platform and will bleed money in the process if that's what it takes to establish itself.

    But a big similarity is the treatment of developers and the focus on making development faster and cheaper. These things matter.

    I'm not predicting MS dominating the way they are in consoles now. But they will be a major player in mobile with WP. Even a respectable 3rd place with 20% market share in 3yrs would be considered by most as a huge success.
    mprice86 likes this.
    01-18-2012 08:26 AM
  23. mattpga's Avatar
    I dont think it will fail, but they seriously need to get a much greater selection of handsets out there. In the UK you are lucky if the carrier has 2 to choose from, usually less, when you have probably at least 10 androids.
    01-19-2012 09:55 AM
  24. mkr10001's Avatar
    Yup and their answer will be either iPhone 4S or Galaxy SII. No kid would want to be caught dead in school with a Windows Phone right now.
    Seriously, what is wrong with you!?
    01-19-2012 10:43 AM
  25. Big Supes's Avatar
    ..... destined to succeed.
    01-19-2012 10:44 AM
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