01-20-2012 03:54 PM
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  1. Pronk's Avatar
    Yup and their answer will be either iPhone 4S or Galaxy SII. No kid would want to be caught dead in school with a Windows Phone right now.
    Rubbish. Give the average kid a Nokia 800 and he or she would be hugely chuffed. Most parents I know wouldn't splash for an S2 or a 4S for a kid to take to school anyway and so they end up with a feature phone like a Samsung Bada, a cheap-arse Blackberry, or a bargain basement android. Or if they're VERY lucky, a 3GS or a second-hand nicer model.

    The Lumia 710 and the ZTE Tania have a great chance of grabbing some of this low-end market because they're bang up to date and work brilliantly on the limited hardware, and have social networking oozing out of every port.

    They might want a 4S or an SII but that's because kids aren't realistic and just want the most expensive/newest, but give them the choice between what they'd ACTUALLY get and what they could have with WP that's so much better for the money, and see what they go for. I think WP has a great chance to expand in this market, and build some customer loyalty too.
    boss.king and Reflexx like this.
    01-19-2012 11:43 AM
  2. aubreyq's Avatar
    Can't really speak for long-term, and seriously cannot speak about Windows 8/Apollo becuase that's simply too far out. That's after another iPhone redesign and at least 1 major Android OS update and 20 ICS devices.
    Windows 8 and Apollo are not as far out as you think they are. If anything they'll come out at the same time Apple announces the iPhone 5. Maybe a little before ;)

    As for Android, well, they can keep cranking their OSs; they still have a fragmented mess to deal with.
    01-19-2012 12:30 PM
  3. based_graham's Avatar
    01-19-2012 12:59 PM
  4. Premium1's Avatar
    Rubbish. Give the average kid a Nokia 800 and he or she would be hugely chuffed. Most parents I know wouldn't splash for an S2 or a 4S for a kid to take to school anyway and so they end up with a feature phone like a Samsung Bada, a cheap-arse Blackberry, or a bargain basement android. Or if they're VERY lucky, a 3GS or a second-hand nicer model.


    They might want a 4S or an SII but that's because kids aren't realistic and just want the most expensive/newest, but give them the choice between what they'd ACTUALLY get and what they could have with WP that's so much better for the money, and see what they go for. I think WP has a great chance to expand in this market, and build some customer loyalty too.
    Most of the times kids don't want the "newest and most expensive, if that was the case the 3gs would not be selling so well. With the very little that people know of wp7, give a kid a choice between any wp and an iphone and 99% of the time they will choose the iphone off of brand recognition alone. Like it or not that is how it is and until wp can get a more solid foothold and get people to know about wp7 sales are not going to really take off like with the iphone and android.
    01-19-2012 02:06 PM
  5. selfcreation's Avatar
    Most of the times kids don't want the "newest and most expensive,
    actually they do ... man i saw kids int he Metro/Buss with an Iphone 4S or the enwess BB or Android phone the DAY it comes out ( first thing that comes to mind is... arg an other kid with rich parents )

    so many kids call every day,,

    and the convo goes a little like this:


    kid - hmmm hello sir... im , hmmm , calling to get info on the Iphone 4s.

    Me - No problem Son ,we are currently selling it at 159`95 on 36month term with a MINIMUM 50$ a month plan....

    kid- .. Oh.... *hear the parents in the back telling him NO WAY )

    kid - how much is the GS2 *

    me- 100$ *hear the parents in the back telling him NO WAY )

    kid- how much or the Iphone 4.

    me- its at 0$ right now ( parents in the back.. ok fine but you better be careful with it )

    ( or ill suggests one of our FREE android phones with NO data ( 25$ a month plan ) now dont ask why android sells more.. hehe )


    this happens every day!! lol ... sorta makes me laugh to... kids are so cute.. HAHA ( mind you im not that old ether :P )
    01-19-2012 02:22 PM
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
    redraider133's posts make me laugh sometimes. Mainly because I know that he (I'm assuming "he") would like to see Windows Phone improve and grow. It's not that he posts out of hate. But the constant negativity is a little funny. And not funny in an evil or bad way. Just funny in a "that's why I like reading this site" kind of way.
    mprice86 likes this.
    01-19-2012 02:30 PM
  7. Premium1's Avatar
    redraider133's posts make me laugh sometimes. Mainly because I know that he (I'm assuming "he") would like to see Windows Phone improve and grow. It's not that he posts out of hate. But the constant negativity is a little funny. And not funny in an evil or bad way. Just funny in a "that's why I like reading this site" kind of way.
    I guess being honest is "negative" to you. I want every os to succeed. I like tech and have used pretty much every os. The more choices the more possible phones and more innovation.
    Last edited by redraider133; 01-19-2012 at 03:15 PM.
    01-19-2012 02:54 PM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    I guess being honest is "negative" to you. I want every os to succeed. I like tech and have used pretty much every os.he more choices the more possible phones and more innovation.
    In this case, yes, it's negative.

    Don't get defensive.

    You have every right to give a negative opinion. You honestly believe that it's a good OS with a lot of potential, but it's going down a negative path at the moment. And you believe a different path focused more on higher-end hardware would be more positive.

    It is what it is. It's not a knock on you. I just said I LIKE reading it because it shows the diversity of opinions of people that still see the OS in general in a positive light.

    I happen to disagree with you. But if everyone agreed here, there would be no discussion at all. And all threads would be about 4 posts long.
    Dave Blake likes this.
    01-19-2012 03:11 PM
  9. jfa1's Avatar
    The future is, at the present, unknown. It is up to the WP enthusiasts to make sure that it does not fail. If it is meant to fail it will do so despite our efforts! I believe this as a Presbyterian who believes in predestination!
    01-19-2012 03:13 PM
  10. Pronk's Avatar
    Most of the times kids don't want the "newest and most expensive, if that was the case the 3gs would not be selling so well. With the very little that people know of wp7, give a kid a choice between any wp and an iphone and 99% of the time they will choose the iphone off of brand recognition alone. Like it or not that is how it is and until wp can get a more solid foothold and get people to know about wp7 sales are not going to really take off like with the iphone and android.
    You appear to have confused "what kids want" with "what kids get". I assume kids like jeans and t-shirts, and yet school uniforms sell really well. By your logic, that would mean kids really want school uniforms.

    Give a kid a choice between a WP7 phone and an iPhone and yeah, they may well choose the iPhone. Give them a choice between a feature phone with a resistive screen and a cruddy facebook app or a ZTE Tania and then see what they go for.
    01-19-2012 03:54 PM
  11. Premium1's Avatar
    You appear to have confused "what kids want" with "what kids get". I assume kids like jeans and t-shirts, and yet school uniforms sell really well. By your logic, that would mean kids really want school uniforms.

    Give a kid a choice between a WP7 phone and an iPhone and yeah, they may well choose the iPhone. Give them a choice between a feature phone with a resistive screen and a cruddy facebook app or a ZTE Tania and then see what they go for.
    Clearly they would choose a smart phone over a feature phone. What a terrible comparison because if its about price the free iPhone will always get picked if they are looking for a smart phone. It isn't like parents say you either get a feature phone or this wp.
    01-19-2012 04:30 PM
  12. Big Supes's Avatar
    I'm not really following this "what would the kids want" argument. Since when do adults look at kids to make an informed choice about anything?
    01-19-2012 05:18 PM
  13. Premium1's Avatar
    I'm not really following this "what would the kids want" argument. Since when do adults look at kids to make an informed choice about anything?
    I think he was saying that the kids "want the most expensive thing" and the parents are the one paying for it. Funny thing is at least around me most kids buy their own phones and their parents aren't the ones paying for it.
    01-19-2012 06:31 PM
  14. Pronk's Avatar
    You obviously hang out with some well off kids then!

    The original point I made was refuting the fact that no kid would be seen dead at school with a Windows Phone. I just don't think that's true, given I walk past kids on their way to school 3 or 4 times a week and they're all using crappy feature phones, very cheap Android phones, low-end Blackberries or messaging Nokias like the E51. In comparison, a WP phone would look great. The iPhone 4/4S is out of their price range, as is the Galaxy S2. Therefore I think there's a good chance selling low-end WP phones to this market will take off, as you get a lot of phone for your money.

    The "what the kids want" thing was saying that kids tend to want the best, newest thing, but that isn't necessarily what they can and will get, regardless of who pays. The 3GS is selling well because it's the absolute cheapest iPhone, not because kids think "hey, I don't want what's best and newest", which is what RedRaider suggested. it's just what they (and indeed anyone else on a budget) can afford *if* they've decided they want an iPhone. And it's *still* expensive, whereas the low-end WP handsets are well into feature phone/crappy android price territory but offer much more in the way of performance.

    However, if it were a straight-up choice by an uninformed kid who had no experience and no knowledge between an iPhone 3GS and a Windows Phone and price was not an issue, then yes, the Windows Phone would almost certainly lose.

    Everyone happy now? :)
    01-20-2012 04:07 AM
  15. Big Supes's Avatar
    I think he was saying that the kids "want the most expensive thing" and the parents are the one paying for it. Funny thing is at least around me most kids buy their own phones and their parents aren't the ones paying for it.
    Ohh, okay, thanks. I don't really agree with "the most expensive" as kids don't really have a grasp on money. They just want what's 'in'. Much like most iSheep (j/k). :P My daughter wanted an iPhone until I showed her exclusive titles via XBL on my HD7. She has an iTouch and absolutely loves my phone. Post-Christmas she now owns an iPad 2 so she's well away with that now, but rest assured, she already knows about Windows 8 and tells her friends it's better than the iPad. . .

    . . . just providing transparency as any good parent should. ;)


    You obviously hang out with some well off kids then!

    The original point I made was refuting the fact that no kid would be seen dead at school with a Windows Phone. I just don't think that's true, given I walk past kids on their way to school 3 or 4 times a week and they're all using crappy feature phones, very cheap Android phones, low-end Blackberries or messaging Nokias like the E51. In comparison, a WP phone would look great. The iPhone 4/4S is out of their price range, as is the Galaxy S2. Therefore I think there's a good chance selling low-end WP phones to this market will take off, as you get a lot of phone for your money.

    The "what the kids want" thing was saying that kids tend to want the best, newest thing, but that isn't necessarily what they can and will get, regardless of who pays. The 3GS is selling well because it's the absolute cheapest iPhone, not because kids think "hey, I don't want what's best and newest", which is what RedRaider suggested. it's just what they (and indeed anyone else on a budget) can afford *if* they've decided they want an iPhone. And it's *still* expensive, whereas the low-end WP handsets are well into feature phone/crappy android price territory but offer much more in the way of performance.

    However, if it were a straight-up choice by an uninformed kid who had no experience and no knowledge between an iPhone 3GS and a Windows Phone and price was not an issue, then yes, the Windows Phone would almost certainly lose.

    Everyone happy now? :)
    I agree with everything up until the last part. My daughter was sold on my HD7 after seing XBL titles. She also commented that "my phone looks nicer" (Metro UI) compared to her iTouch (IOS).
    01-20-2012 06:01 AM
  16. Pronk's Avatar

    I agree with everything up until the last part. My daughter was sold on my HD7 after seing XBL titles. She also commented that "my phone looks nicer" (Metro UI) compared to her iTouch (IOS).
    Then I'd say that your daughter isn't uninformed ;)
    01-20-2012 06:14 AM
  17. Big Supes's Avatar
    Then I'd say that your daughter isn't uninformed ;)
    She no longer is, granted. ;) At the time she was "uninformed"; she knew nothing about WP.

    Surely, we're talking about comparing the two? Otherwise, how would anyone make a decision based on zero knowledge?
    01-20-2012 06:20 AM
  18. Premium1's Avatar
    You obviously hang out with some well off kids then!

    The original point I made was refuting the fact that no kid would be seen dead at school with a Windows Phone. I just don't think that's true, given I walk past kids on their way to school 3 or 4 times a week and they're all using crappy feature phones, very cheap Android phones, low-end Blackberries or messaging Nokias like the E51. In comparison, a WP phone would look great. The iPhone 4/4S is out of their price range, as is the Galaxy S2. Therefore I think there's a good chance selling low-end WP phones to this market will take off, as you get a lot of phone for your money.

    The "what the kids want" thing was saying that kids tend to want the best, newest thing, but that isn't necessarily what they can and will get, regardless of who pays. The 3GS is selling well because it's the absolute cheapest iPhone, not because kids think "hey, I don't want what's best and newest", which is what RedRaider suggested. it's just what they (and indeed anyone else on a budget) can afford *if* they've decided they want an iPhone. And it's *still* expensive, whereas the low-end WP handsets are well into feature phone/crappy android price territory but offer much more in the way of performance.

    However, if it were a straight-up choice by an uninformed kid who had no experience and no knowledge between an iPhone 3GS and a Windows Phone and price was not an issue, then yes, the Windows Phone would almost certainly lose.

    Everyone happy now? :)
    How is the 3gs expensive when its free on contract? Price is out the door looking at 3gs compared to any wp.
    01-20-2012 07:14 AM
  19. Pronk's Avatar
    How is the 3gs expensive when its free on contract? Price is out the door looking at 3gs compared to any wp.
    How? Because it's usually tied to a contract that costs more per month to offset it being free. For example, for a 3GS on O2 UK the absolute cheapest tariff is 18 a month with a rubbish amount of minutes and texts and a pathetic 100 Mb of data. The cheapest decent tariff is 27.

    A low/middle-end Android (Galaxy W) is 21 a month for a decent amount of data/ unlimited texts/minutes.

    A feature phone (Nokia C3-03) is down to 13, though that's with less data as a feature phone will use less.

    A Lumia 800 - brand new - is the same price as a Galaxy W, and is a much better phone. On an 18-month contract, that means an iPhone 3GS (bear in mind that this is a 2-year-old handset already) will cost you more per month and in total 108 more than a Lumia 800 with considerably less resale value and longevity (realistically, how much longer can Apple support the 3GS? iOS 6 maybe, but after that it's going to be very long in the tooth). If O2 sold lower-spec Windows Phones, doubtless the saving would be even greater.

    So yeah - considerably more expensive, unless you completely ignore all costs and issues other than handset price.
    01-20-2012 08:04 AM
  20. The_Vermonster's Avatar
    The Focus Flash was 99¢ for most if the holiday season. Now would you take a 3GS over a FF? As was said before, most people don't look at WP because sales reps get paid to sell iPhones and Droids. Ask any kid what makes their phone special and they'll say "everyone wants this phone."

    Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express
    01-20-2012 08:06 AM
  21. Premium1's Avatar
    How? Because it's usually tied to a contract that costs more per month to offset it being free. For example, for a 3GS on O2 UK the absolute cheapest tariff is 18 a month with a rubbish amount of minutes and texts and a pathetic 100 Mb of data. The cheapest decent tariff is 27.

    A low/middle-end Android (Galaxy W) is 21 a month for a decent amount of data/ unlimited texts/minutes.

    A feature phone (Nokia C3-03) is down to 13, though that's with less data as a feature phone will use less.

    A Lumia 800 - brand new - is the same price as a Galaxy W, and is a much better phone. On an 18-month contract, that means an iPhone 3GS (bear in mind that this is a 2-year-old handset already) will cost you more per month and in total 108 more than a Lumia 800 with considerably less resale value and longevity (realistically, how much longer can Apple support the 3GS? iOS 6 maybe, but after that it's going to be very long in the tooth). If O2 sold lower-spec Windows Phones, doubtless the saving would be even greater.

    So yeah - considerably more expensive, unless you completely ignore all costs and issues other than handset price.
    Well here in the states smartphone plans all cost the same which is what I was talking about. Maybe in the UK wp would be a better deal but with how plans work in the states a smart phone costs the sam( plan wise) no matter how much it costs up front.
    01-20-2012 09:33 AM
  22. mprice86's Avatar
    Smartphone plans in the UK are in need of a bit of an update really. Most carriers still have "special" tarriffs for iPhones which usually aren't as good value for money as more of the cost goes towards off-setting the phone.

    Regarding kids though, do parents really set their children up with contracts on their phones? Just sounds like a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of students at my college (16-20yr olds) just get handsets and use some form of SIM only or Pay and Go deal.
    01-20-2012 11:47 AM
  23. Premium1's Avatar
    Smartphone plans in the UK are in need of a bit of an update really. Most carriers still have "special" tarriffs for iPhones which usually aren't as good value for money as more of the cost goes towards off-setting the phone.

    Regarding kids though, do parents really set their children up with contracts on their phones? Just sounds like a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of students at my college (16-20yr olds) just get handsets and use some form of SIM only or Pay and Go deal.
    Most are on plans with their parents and has been that way for years here in the states.
    01-20-2012 11:50 AM
  24. Big Supes's Avatar
    I suggest to anyone who doesn't have confidence in WP's lifespan to reference the recent market research (iSuppli threads)....

    YEAH, NUMBER TWO SPOT, BABY!!! :P :D
    01-20-2012 01:49 PM
  25. Premium1's Avatar
    I suggest to anyone who doesn't have confidence in WP's lifespan to reference the recent market research (iSuppli threads)....

    YEAH, NUMBER TWO SPOT, BABY!!! :P :D
    A lot can happen in 3 years though...
    01-20-2012 02:13 PM
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