Windows Phone 7 doomed to fail?

[Premium1]

You appear to have confused "what kids want" with "what kids get". I assume kids like jeans and t-shirts, and yet school uniforms sell really well. By your logic, that would mean kids really want school uniforms.

Give a kid a choice between a WP7 phone and an iPhone and yeah, they may well choose the iPhone. Give them a choice between a feature phone with a resistive screen and a cruddy facebook app or a ZTE Tania and then see what they go for.

Clearly they would choose a smart phone over a feature phone. What a terrible comparison because if its about price the free iPhone will always get picked if they are looking for a smart phone. It isn't like parents say you either get a feature phone or this wp.

 

[Big Supes]

I'm not really following this "what would the kids want" argument. Since when do adults look at kids to make an informed choice about anything?

 

[Premium1]

I'm not really following this "what would the kids want" argument. Since when do adults look at kids to make an informed choice about anything?

I think he was saying that the kids "want the most expensive thing" and the parents are the one paying for it. Funny thing is at least around me most kids buy their own phones and their parents aren't the ones paying for it.

 

[Pronk]

You obviously hang out with some well off kids then!

The original point I made was refuting the fact that no kid would be seen dead at school with a Windows Phone. I just don't think that's true, given I walk past kids on their way to school 3 or 4 times a week and they're all using crappy feature phones, very cheap Android phones, low-end Blackberries or messaging Nokias like the E51. In comparison, a WP phone would look great. The iPhone 4/4S is out of their price range, as is the Galaxy S2. Therefore I think there's a good chance selling low-end WP phones to this market will take off, as you get a lot of phone for your money.

The "what the kids want" thing was saying that kids tend to want the best, newest thing, but that isn't necessarily what they can and will get, regardless of who pays. The 3GS is selling well because it's the absolute cheapest iPhone, not because kids think "hey, I don't want what's best and newest", which is what RedRaider suggested. it's just what they (and indeed anyone else on a budget) can afford *if* they've decided they want an iPhone. And it's *still* expensive, whereas the low-end WP handsets are well into feature phone/crappy android price territory but offer much more in the way of performance.

However, if it were a straight-up choice by an uninformed kid who had no experience and no knowledge between an iPhone 3GS and a Windows Phone and price was not an issue, then yes, the Windows Phone would almost certainly lose.

Everyone happy now?

 

[Big Supes]

I think he was saying that the kids "want the most expensive thing" and the parents are the one paying for it. Funny thing is at least around me most kids buy their own phones and their parents aren't the ones paying for it.

Ohh, okay, thanks. I don't really agree with "the most expensive" as kids don't really have a grasp on money. They just want what's 'in'. Much like most iSheep (j/k). My daughter wanted an iPhone until I showed her exclusive titles via XBL on my HD7. She has an iTouch and absolutely loves my phone. Post-Christmas she now owns an iPad 2 so she's well away with that now, but rest assured, she already knows about Windows 8 and tells her friends it's better than the iPad. . .

. . . just providing transparency as any good parent should.

You obviously hang out with some well off kids then!

The original point I made was refuting the fact that no kid would be seen dead at school with a Windows Phone. I just don't think that's true, given I walk past kids on their way to school 3 or 4 times a week and they're all using crappy feature phones, very cheap Android phones, low-end Blackberries or messaging Nokias like the E51. In comparison, a WP phone would look great. The iPhone 4/4S is out of their price range, as is the Galaxy S2. Therefore I think there's a good chance selling low-end WP phones to this market will take off, as you get a lot of phone for your money.

The "what the kids want" thing was saying that kids tend to want the best, newest thing, but that isn't necessarily what they can and will get, regardless of who pays. The 3GS is selling well because it's the absolute cheapest iPhone, not because kids think "hey, I don't want what's best and newest", which is what RedRaider suggested. it's just what they (and indeed anyone else on a budget) can afford *if* they've decided they want an iPhone. And it's *still* expensive, whereas the low-end WP handsets are well into feature phone/crappy android price territory but offer much more in the way of performance.

However, if it were a straight-up choice by an uninformed kid who had no experience and no knowledge between an iPhone 3GS and a Windows Phone and price was not an issue, then yes, the Windows Phone would almost certainly lose.

Everyone happy now?

I agree with everything up until the last part. My daughter was sold on my HD7 after seing XBL titles. She also commented that "my phone looks nicer" (Metro UI) compared to her iTouch (IOS).

 

[Pronk]

I agree with everything up until the last part. My daughter was sold on my HD7 after seing XBL titles. She also commented that "my phone looks nicer" (Metro UI) compared to her iTouch (IOS).

Then I'd say that your daughter isn't uninformed

 

[Big Supes]

Then I'd say that your daughter isn't uninformed

She no longer is, granted. At the time she was "uninformed"; she knew nothing about WP.

Surely, we're talking about comparing the two? Otherwise, how would anyone make a decision based on zero knowledge?

 

[Premium1]

You obviously hang out with some well off kids then!

The original point I made was refuting the fact that no kid would be seen dead at school with a Windows Phone. I just don't think that's true, given I walk past kids on their way to school 3 or 4 times a week and they're all using crappy feature phones, very cheap Android phones, low-end Blackberries or messaging Nokias like the E51. In comparison, a WP phone would look great. The iPhone 4/4S is out of their price range, as is the Galaxy S2. Therefore I think there's a good chance selling low-end WP phones to this market will take off, as you get a lot of phone for your money.

The "what the kids want" thing was saying that kids tend to want the best, newest thing, but that isn't necessarily what they can and will get, regardless of who pays. The 3GS is selling well because it's the absolute cheapest iPhone, not because kids think "hey, I don't want what's best and newest", which is what RedRaider suggested. it's just what they (and indeed anyone else on a budget) can afford *if* they've decided they want an iPhone. And it's *still* expensive, whereas the low-end WP handsets are well into feature phone/crappy android price territory but offer much more in the way of performance.

However, if it were a straight-up choice by an uninformed kid who had no experience and no knowledge between an iPhone 3GS and a Windows Phone and price was not an issue, then yes, the Windows Phone would almost certainly lose.

Everyone happy now?

How is the 3gs expensive when its free on contract? Price is out the door looking at 3gs compared to any wp.

 

[Pronk]

How is the 3gs expensive when its free on contract? Price is out the door looking at 3gs compared to any wp.

How? Because it's usually tied to a contract that costs more per month to offset it being free. For example, for a 3GS on O2 UK the absolute cheapest tariff is ?18 a month with a rubbish amount of minutes and texts and a pathetic 100 Mb of data. The cheapest decent tariff is ?27.

A low/middle-end Android (Galaxy W) is ?21 a month for a decent amount of data/ unlimited texts/minutes.

A feature phone (Nokia C3-03) is down to ?13, though that's with less data as a feature phone will use less.

A Lumia 800 - brand new - is the same price as a Galaxy W, and is a much better phone. On an 18-month contract, that means an iPhone 3GS (bear in mind that this is a 2-year-old handset already) will cost you more per month and in total ?108 more than a Lumia 800 with considerably less resale value and longevity (realistically, how much longer can Apple support the 3GS? iOS 6 maybe, but after that it's going to be very long in the tooth). If O2 sold lower-spec Windows Phones, doubtless the saving would be even greater.

So yeah - considerably more expensive, unless you completely ignore all costs and issues other than handset price.

 

[The_Vermonster]

The Focus Flash was 99¢ for most if the holiday season. Now would you take a 3GS over a FF? As was said before, most people don't look at WP because sales reps get paid to sell iPhones and Droids. Ask any kid what makes their phone special and they'll say "everyone wants this phone."

Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express

 

[Premium1]

How? Because it's usually tied to a contract that costs more per month to offset it being free. For example, for a 3GS on O2 UK the absolute cheapest tariff is ?18 a month with a rubbish amount of minutes and texts and a pathetic 100 Mb of data. The cheapest decent tariff is ?27.

A low/middle-end Android (Galaxy W) is ?21 a month for a decent amount of data/ unlimited texts/minutes.

A feature phone (Nokia C3-03) is down to ?13, though that's with less data as a feature phone will use less.

A Lumia 800 - brand new - is the same price as a Galaxy W, and is a much better phone. On an 18-month contract, that means an iPhone 3GS (bear in mind that this is a 2-year-old handset already) will cost you more per month and in total ?108 more than a Lumia 800 with considerably less resale value and longevity (realistically, how much longer can Apple support the 3GS? iOS 6 maybe, but after that it's going to be very long in the tooth). If O2 sold lower-spec Windows Phones, doubtless the saving would be even greater.

So yeah - considerably more expensive, unless you completely ignore all costs and issues other than handset price.

Well here in the states smartphone plans all cost the same which is what I was talking about. Maybe in the UK wp would be a better deal but with how plans work in the states a smart phone costs the sam( plan wise) no matter how much it costs up front.

 

[mprice86]

Smartphone plans in the UK are in need of a bit of an update really. Most carriers still have "special" tarriffs for iPhones which usually aren't as good value for money as more of the cost goes towards off-setting the phone.

Regarding kids though, do parents really set their children up with contracts on their phones? Just sounds like a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of students at my college (16-20yr olds) just get handsets and use some form of SIM only or Pay and Go deal.

 

[Premium1]

Smartphone plans in the UK are in need of a bit of an update really. Most carriers still have "special" tarriffs for iPhones which usually aren't as good value for money as more of the cost goes towards off-setting the phone.

Regarding kids though, do parents really set their children up with contracts on their phones? Just sounds like a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of students at my college (16-20yr olds) just get handsets and use some form of SIM only or Pay and Go deal.

Most are on plans with their parents and has been that way for years here in the states.

 

[Big Supes]

I suggest to anyone who doesn't have confidence in WP's lifespan to reference the recent market research (iSuppli threads)....

YEAH, NUMBER TWO SPOT, BABY!!!

 

[Premium1]

I suggest to anyone who doesn't have confidence in WP's lifespan to reference the recent market research (iSuppli threads)....

YEAH, NUMBER TWO SPOT, BABY!!!

A lot can happen in 3 years though...

 

[freestaterocker]

As much as I love android I'll be the first one to admit there is still a lot of problems with it. Competition is always good but sometimes I wish they can collaborate on things. Having Facetime, Gtalk, and I''m assuming skype for WP7 are all different video chatting services. While I'll probably never use video calling it would be nice if video calling was as easy as facetime across all phones.

Tango is a great video calling app available for WP7. It's cross-platform, fast, smooth, will use the main camera if you have a device with no ffc, and can use your data, not just WiFi only like facetime. Best of all, it's free and available now!

 

[Big Supes]

A lot can happen in 3 years though...

Evidently so....