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01-20-2012 02:14 PM
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  1. xmind's Avatar
    I've been eyeing WP7 devices for some and waited for Verizon to get something new, but they didn't release anything, so picked up a used Trophy from eBay. Did a lot of research/playing prior to buying so not too many surprises, but I still want to verify some of the "gaps" I see in the current WP7 OS or be proven a noob that there is a way to do x, y, and z.

    1. No manual configuration of the 802.11x IP addresses - Kind of surprised I couldn't do this as it seems fairly simple to implement a screen to set this information. Probably a little over paranoid, but use a hidden WPA network without DHCP. Ended up just creating an IP reservation for my Trophy's MAC address to get around this.

    2. Can Live Tiles not act as simple toggle buttons? - One thing I liked on Windows Mobile and Android is that I could just tap a button/icon and it would toggle the wifi or flash light on and off.....no need to open up an app. It seems all of the WP7 apps are simply shortcuts to the app and it has to load up and I have to close. Is there something I a missing? (wifi, BT, GPS, screen brightness, and flashlight are the items I would like to have quick access to with a one button push direct toggle.) Seems like such a simple thing that MS could just shove something out that did this.

    3. No mass storage mode - I knew this one going into it and had already registered and voted for this feature on MS's WP7 suggestions site. This was/is an extremely useful feature for any phone to have. WP7 is about streamlining and efficiency, yet without this feature, they are ensuring I always have to carry a thumb drive around for work/travel/family support.

    4. Apps closing by themselves - Does WP7 have a limit on how many apps it can have open at one time? I would have thought that with 512 MB of RAM I could have more than 4 or so 1 MB applications open at a time. However, it seems that eventually the apps close out even though I don't exit them (hit the window key, not the back button).

    5. Battery % in the status bar - I know they aren't the most accurate, but there is a big difference to me from having 49% battery and 26% battery. Even Android and WM6.5 doesn't have this option stock and it baffles me as to why I had to load custom ROMs or files to get this feature. WP7 seems to follow suit.

    6. No immediate resume of games nor ability to disable buttons during game play - I can understand why it is implemented this way, but playing a game and accidentally hitting the search key or what not is annoying. I also would have expected the resume to be damn near immediate, but it seems a state is saved and the program has to reload in order to resume play. Like I said, not a big issue, but kind of annoying.

    7. Limit of 20 people to a group - I was surprised they impose such restrictions on your group size. I basically have to now divide my family into separate groups now....and that doesn't seem right. Same way with my various friends groups.

    8. DLNA support - I thought I read or saw a commercial for WP7 supporting DLNA, yet I don't see anything mentioned on the forums/manual/documentation I have. So does WP7 support or going to support DLNA?

    9. 3rd party keyboard - I was a "gotta have physical keyboard" guy back in the day. I hate typing on a screen. Well that was until I got Swype for Android installed and WOW does that make a difference in speed and to lessen frustration. I surely hope MS will allow a Swype type keyboard soon. Don't get me wrong, the current keyboard is one of the better ones I have used, but Swype is still better IMO.


    <start rant - as in I know it's not supported, but just voicing my opinion>
    R1. Menu button - I was disappointed that Android went the path of removing the menu button. I would much rather have a menu button instead of a search button if I had to choose. Not having a menu button means that menus are not always activated/found in the same manner/places from app to app. It also forces the app developer to waste space by leaving a location where the user can touch activate a menu.

    R2. No side loading of applications - I blame Apple for this one. I had no problem searching the web to find the applications I needed/wanted for my phone, but since Apple's closed/integrated business model, everyone has their own app store and won't allow others to play. MS is partially there with the Chevron thing, but that is hit and miss if even available and only allows limited installs. I do some hobby programming and would have been nice to not pay a developers fee to unlock my phone for a hobby....but understand they can't give everything away.

    R3. Separate volume controls - WM6 and Android have this option to set media at one volume and ringer at another. I to feel that it should be that way. Granted it isn't hard to change the volume, but it is hard to remember to turn it back after you change it.

    <end rant...for now>


    Overall I'm glad to have a such a responsive phone. That was really my only complaint about WM6 was the speed. I could do everything the iPhone could do, but it just took a lot longer for things to open/transition. The lag on Android was really annoying as well, but you don't really notice it anymore with the latest versions of software/hardware..... I was so close to buying an HTC Rezound...that screen/resolution = <drool>.
    Speebs, Nataku4ca, Jake_M and 1 others like this.
    01-17-2012 12:53 AM
  2. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    WP7 DLNA support is in vendor apps. HTC Connected Media and Samsung AllShare, for example. I'd rather they be integrated at a deep level, like Apple's AirPlay (which I find uttery convinient, in use), but that xbox360 I have connected to my reciever is only good for playing games, and netflix on the TV.

    As for the menu button, it makes sense why it's gone in HC and ICS. The entire GUI of Android made the menu button less useful (other than in stock roms, long pressing menu normally forced toggled the software KB). However, in HC and ICS, the menu softkey is enabled when a legacy application needs it.
    xmind likes this.
    01-17-2012 02:38 AM
  3. canesfan625's Avatar
    2. Can Live Tiles not act as simple toggle buttons? - One thing I liked on Windows Mobile and Android is that I could just tap a button/icon and it would toggle the wifi or flash light on and off.....no need to open up an app. It seems all of the WP7 apps are simply shortcuts to the app and it has to load up and I have to close. Is there something I a missing? (wifi, BT, GPS, screen brightness, and flashlight are the items I would like to have quick access to with a one button push direct toggle.) Seems like such a simple thing that MS could just shove something out that did this.
    No. Probably due to API access/restrictions. Not entirely sure though. MS could implement it I suppose but I wouldn't get to excited about it.

    3. No mass storage mode - I knew this one going into it and had already registered and voted for this feature on MS's WP7 suggestions site. This was/is an extremely useful feature for any phone to have. WP7 is about streamlining and efficiency, yet without this feature, they are ensuring I always have to carry a thumb drive around for work/travel/family support.
    Not going to happen any time soon. WP7 can't be a mass storage device safely because of the way the sync system works. Data integrity > Mass storage to MS.

    4. Apps closing by themselves - Does WP7 have a limit on how many apps it can have open at one time? I would have thought that with 512 MB of RAM I could have more than 4 or so 1 MB applications open at a time. However, it seems that eventually the apps close out even though I don't exit them (hit the window key, not the back button).
    WP7 only allows one app to run in the foreground period. Anything else requires background agents to run.

    5. Battery % in the status bar - I know they aren't the most accurate, but there is a big difference to me from having 49% battery and 26% battery. Even Android and WM6.5 doesn't have this option stock and it baffles me as to why I had to load custom ROMs or files to get this feature. WP7 seems to follow suit.
    You can check the % in the settings. I remember when I had my Android phone there were numerous discussions about how having the % displayed in the status bar actually eats more battery.

    6. No immediate resume of games nor ability to disable buttons during game play - I can understand why it is implemented this way, but playing a game and accidentally hitting the search key or what not is annoying. I also would have expected the resume to be damn near immediate, but it seems a state is saved and the program has to reload in order to resume play. Like I said, not a big issue, but kind of annoying.
    It's because of dehydration. If you have one of the hackacble phones there is a hack to get around this. You are right though. A state is saved. Its how multitasking works on WP7


    8. DLNA support - I thought I read or saw a commercial for WP7 supporting DLNA, yet I don't see anything mentioned on the forums/manual/documentation I have. So does WP7 support or going to support DLNA?
    LG is talking about it. I thought samsung or someone already had app support for it though?

    9. 3rd party keyboard - I was a "gotta have physical keyboard" guy back in the day. I hate typing on a screen. Well that was until I got Swype for Android installed and WOW does that make a difference in speed and to lessen frustration. I surely hope MS will allow a Swype type keyboard soon. Don't get me wrong, the current keyboard is one of the better ones I have used, but Swype is still better IMO.
    Not likely unfortunately. They would have to create a whole new API. Check out sliding keyboard though.


    <start rant - as in I know it's not supported, but just voicing my opinion>
    R1. Menu button - I was disappointed that Android went the path of removing the menu button. I would much rather have a menu button instead of a search button if I had to choose. Not having a menu button means that menus are not always activated/found in the same manner/places from app to app. It also forces the app developer to waste space by leaving a location where the user can touch activate a menu.
    not sure I understand? Sounds like you are talking about the (lack of) Android paradigm. Haven't had this problem with Metro.

    R2. No side loading of applications - I blame Apple for this one. I had no problem searching the web to find the applications I needed/wanted for my phone, but since Apple's closed/integrated business model, everyone has their own app store and won't allow others to play. MS is partially there with the Chevron thing, but that is hit and miss if even available and only allows limited installs. I do some hobby programming and would have been nice to not pay a developers fee to unlock my phone for a hobby....but understand they can't give everything away.
    We can thank a lack of standards and vendor lock in for this one. Not solely a Microsoft fault.

    R3. Separate volume controls - WM6 and Android have this option to set media at one volume and ringer at another. I to feel that it should be that way. Granted it isn't hard to change the volume, but it is hard to remember to turn it back after you change it.
    I agree. I'm sure we will see this eventually.
    snowmutt and xmind like this.
    01-17-2012 06:26 AM
  4. lumic's Avatar
    5. Battery % in the status bar - I know they aren't the most accurate, but there is a big difference to me from having 49% battery and 26% battery. Even Android and WM6.5 doesn't have this option stock and it baffles me as to why I had to load custom ROMs or files to get this feature. WP7 seems to follow suit.
    Some great points, but I'm curious if this might change if Apollo brings a 720p chassis. I guess you could have the plain percentage as a number, but I doubt it would fit inside the battery outline at WVGA. On Microsoft's part, I feel this is definitely an aesthetic choice that can be masked by their message of simplification: "the user doesn't need to know an exact percentage".
    01-17-2012 06:42 AM
  5. xmind's Avatar
    Thanks all for the replies.


    WP7 only allows one app to run in the foreground period. Anything else requires background agents to run.
    Understood. I was just curious if there was an app limit though as to how many apps could be left in the background? For example, I can see 5 apps listed when I do the quick app switcher. If I open one more app, it kicks my oldest one off the quick app screen. The oldest item kicked could just be a settings window that can't use anything for memory, so it seems that the app switcher has a hard limit of 5 previously used apps/windows. Kind of disappointed as I see this as not only as a method for keeping frequently used programs loaded in memory, but it also becomes a dynamic quick launch option depending upon what I'm doing.


    You can check the % in the settings. I remember when I had my Android phone there were numerous discussions about how having the % displayed in the status bar actually eats more battery.
    Yeah, this is one window I always have open and refer back to it all the time. It would be nice if I could force to stay in memory though as sometimes it gets kicked out of my list of open apps and have to go through the settings menu again. I didn't notice any battery performance issues when I did this on WM or Android. If batteries lasted well more than a day without having to manage/limit your wireless connections and game play, I wouldn't care, but with my usage the stock battery barely makes it through the day. More micro USB cables have been placed on order so I have more charging options though.

    not sure I understand? Sounds like you are talking about the (lack of) Android paradigm. Haven't had this problem with Metro.
    Yeah, more of an Android problem as most WP7 applications do show the "..." at the bottom right of the screen for options, but I would still prefer for applications to have as much screen real estate as possible.
    01-17-2012 07:50 AM
  6. gtg465x's Avatar
    Regarding point 4, the size of an app has no relation to how much memory it uses. My 200KB app uses between 20MB and 60MB of memory depending on what the user is doing.
    01-17-2012 08:14 AM
  7. canesfan625's Avatar
    I don't see a reason to be disappointed with that, really. Android only allows 6 to run unless something has changed. A for memory. That shouldn't be an issue. The app saves it state and closes. Its allowed a window every so often to check for updates and such depending on the app. It's probably for battery reasons or something.
    xmind and xmind like this.
    01-17-2012 08:15 AM
  8. Speebs's Avatar
    I love this post- I have almost all of the same complaints. I do love the phone, though, and am adjusting to these things (which, in the end, are just annoyances). MS does seem to overdo it with the "knowing what's best for the user" and hopefully they'll implement some of the more necessary features.
    snowmutt likes this.
    01-17-2012 09:16 AM
  9. PG2G's Avatar
    2. Can Live Tiles not act as simple toggle buttons? - One thing I liked on Windows Mobile and Android is that I could just tap a button/icon and it would toggle the wifi or flash light on and off.....no need to open up an app. It seems all of the WP7 apps are simply shortcuts to the app and it has to load up and I have to close. Is there something I a missing? (wifi, BT, GPS, screen brightness, and flashlight are the items I would like to have quick access to with a one button push direct toggle.) Seems like such a simple thing that MS could just shove something out that did this.
    Tiles are pretty much images, making them interactive would almost surely not be something they could just simply do.


    4. Apps closing by themselves - Does WP7 have a limit on how many apps it can have open at one time? I would have thought that with 512 MB of RAM I could have more than 4 or so 1 MB applications open at a time. However, it seems that eventually the apps close out even though I don't exit them (hit the window key, not the back button).
    As you've discovered, the limit is 5. Hopefully when future phones have more RAM they will up the limit (or make it variable based on memory).

    6. No immediate resume of games nor ability to disable buttons during game play - I can understand why it is implemented this way, but playing a game and accidentally hitting the search key or what not is annoying. I also would have expected the resume to be damn near immediate, but it seems a state is saved and the program has to reload in order to resume play. Like I said, not a big issue, but kind of annoying.
    Fast-app switching requires that apps are recompiled for Mango. A lot of games don't seem to have done this, for some reason.
    xmind likes this.
    01-17-2012 09:21 AM
  10. canesfan625's Avatar
    Tiles are pretty much images, making them interactive would almost surely not be something they could just simply do.
    Tiles have images but aren't 'pretty much images' they are links to apps/features/functions.
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 01-17-2012 at 10:19 AM.
    01-17-2012 09:28 AM
  11. Eirenarch's Avatar
    My biggest issue with the phone so far is with the search key especially in games and especially since on my phone it is a soft key. It is not like I will ever want to go to bing directly from a game so it makes sense to allow them to override it and display a confirmation or something.
    soulzero likes this.
    01-17-2012 09:41 AM
  12. J4rrod's Avatar
    As long as the app is Mangofied, there is immediate resume. Also, if you'll notice, if you slide your finger from the screen down to the soft buttons, the buttons will not activate. This got implemented in NoDo.

    Sent from my Samsung Focus S using Board Express.
    01-17-2012 10:02 AM
  13. jeremyshaw's Avatar
    In terms of background apps, the running states is 5+1home screen. The actual background API agents? Well... MS' system makes it hard to really tell, actually :(
    01-17-2012 10:46 AM
  14. canesfan625's Avatar
    In terms of background apps, the running states is 5+1home screen. The actual background API agents? Well... MS' system makes it hard to really tell, actually :(
    Its not 5+1 home. Its 5 period. Hard to tell? Apps can only register 2 agents (1 of each) and there is a per-device limit of 6. If a 7th one launches one gets killed.
    01-17-2012 11:31 AM
  15. mprice86's Avatar
    I love this post- I have almost all of the same complaints. I do love the phone, though, and am adjusting to these things (which, in the end, are just annoyances). MS does seem to overdo it with the "knowing what's best for the user" and hopefully they'll implement some of the more necessary features.
    The best thing you can do it head over to the Windows Phone user feedback site and vote for what you want to see, or create a new thing if it's not on the list (chances are it probably is though).

    I'd like to see the separate volume controls and an option for closing apps from the multi-tasking view, personally.

    @ the OP

    I'm not 100% on how multi-tasking works, perhaps someone else can clarify; but is there a chance that the apps may simply not have been updated to support multi-tasking?
    01-17-2012 11:40 AM
  16. canesfan625's Avatar
    The best thing you can do it head over to the Windows Phone user feedback site and vote for what you want to see, or create a new thing if it's not on the list (chances are it probably is though).

    I'd like to see the separate volume controls and an option for closing apps from the multi-tasking view, personally.

    @ the OP

    I'm not 100% on how multi-tasking works, perhaps someone else can clarify; but is there a chance that the apps may simply not have been updated to support multi-tasking?
    it's not true multitasking in the sense you are probably used to. When you are jumping between tasks it saves the state of the app (like windows hibernate mode) and closes it. Whenever you switch back to the app it reloads the app from memory and resumes where you left off from. If the app registers background agents there is a little more to it
    aubreyq and mprice86 like this.
    01-17-2012 01:51 PM
  17. firepromaster's Avatar
    mass storage has been here for awhile in app form. Remote drive in the marketplace is 3.99 but works great. Does require software on the PC you're loading file to and from though.
    01-18-2012 03:56 AM
  18. canesfan625's Avatar
    mass storage has been here for awhile in app form. Remote drive in the marketplace is 3.99 but works great. Does require software on the PC you're loading file to and from though.
    And its garbage too. Windows Phone is not a mass storage device. By adding and moving things around yourself you are messing with its data integrity. I recommend you dont recommend people use it. Especially that app. Why do you need a pairing app for RDP in the first place.
    01-18-2012 07:39 AM
  19. firepromaster's Avatar
    it has always worked for me no problems at all, therefore your opinion of it being garbage shouldn't dissuade people from using an app that provides the functionality that they are asking for. Its not a pretty app and takes a bit to learn but it WORKS. You don't move things around and you do not mess with the Os's integrity.
    01-18-2012 11:12 AM
  20. canesfan625's Avatar
    it has always worked for me no problems at all, therefore your opinion of it being garbage shouldn't dissuade people from using an app that provides the functionality that they are asking for. Its not a pretty app and takes a bit to learn but it WORKS. You don't move things around and you do not mess with the Os's integrity.
    Right, an app that costs money to do something you can do for free with the phones very own in place systems..
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 01-18-2012 at 01:13 PM.
    01-18-2012 12:02 PM
  21. firepromaster's Avatar
    does the phone right now do this on its own? if it does show me and I will stop informing people that an app adds working mass storage functionality at a cost of money.
    01-18-2012 01:46 PM
  22. canesfan625's Avatar
    does the phone right now do this on its own? if it does show me and I will stop informing people that an app adds working mass storage functionality at a cost of money.
    Just use Skydrive/Mesh..
    01-18-2012 02:04 PM
  23. kevm14's Avatar
    1. No manual configuration of the 802.11x IP addresses - Kind of surprised I couldn't do this as it seems fairly simple to implement a screen to set this information. Probably a little over paranoid, but use a hidden WPA network without DHCP. Ended up just creating an IP reservation for my Trophy's MAC address to get around this.

    I'm pretty sure I've seen all these manual settings somewhere before. Maybe long press the connected SSID and see what happens?

    4. Apps closing by themselves - Does WP7 have a limit on how many apps it can have open at one time? I would have thought that with 512 MB of RAM I could have more than 4 or so 1 MB applications open at a time. However, it seems that eventually the apps close out even though I don't exit them (hit the window key, not the back button).
    I thought you could access more if you hit back a bunch of times. This means you'll clear out everything that was open to find out, so maybe not that useful. And I may be wrong. I just thought I saw something that wasn't displayed in the multitasking screen, after hitting back a bunch of times.
    01-18-2012 03:31 PM
  24. firepromaster's Avatar
    what if I want to copy a large file over 100 Mb immediately. say some home movies or music projects ,sky drive is limiting. i use skydrive. I like it. Some people want this specific function on there phone without the need for a thumbdrive. I have it just because I might need it.
    01-18-2012 03:44 PM
  25. canesfan625's Avatar
    what if I want to copy a large file over 100 Mb immediately. say some home movies or music projects ,sky drive is limiting. i use skydrive. I like it. Some people want this specific function on there phone without the need for a thumbdrive. I have it just because I might need it.
    So you are going to remotely copy 100 mb files to your phone immediately? Anyway, if you MUST spend money I would go with something less shady. SMEStorage :: SMEStorage Cloud File Manager for Windows Phone 7
    01-18-2012 04:36 PM
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