Fragmentation in WP OS ?

[kenzibit]

Been thinking about this lately, since they say Tango will introduce WP OS to low end devices, won't there be fragmentation in the OS when an update like Apollo comes. How can a low end WP with a 128 or 256 MB RAM and ROM upgrade to Apollo. Can any one please enlighten me on this coz I love WP and wouldn't want anything to happen to it. Can low end devices upgrade to any update MSFT releases after Apollo?

Thanks.

 

[pikacz]

well, MS and Nokia promised to not go the android way, so we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed. i think the 1st gen devices will still get updates, but they may not be the same for new phones, e.g. new phones have gyroscopes so this feature cannot be updated for 1st gen phones cause they don't have it, same thing for front-facing cameras

 

[Giddora]

Simple... Tango is here to fix lower system requirements, which will also apply to "high-end devices". When apollo comes, the system itself will not have higher requirements, but they will support higher ended hardware. It will however not require you to a higher end phone to run as smooth as before.

Some things will not be available to low-end phones as they will not be able to run them properly, but the OS itself will not be fragmented. Tango is not a branch outside the regular WP-branch.

 

[canesfan625]

Simple... Tango is here to fix lower system requirements, which will also apply to "high-end devices". When apollo comes, the system itself will not have higher requirements, but they will support higher ended hardware. It will however not require you to a higher end phone to run as smooth as before.

Some things will not be available to low-end phones as they will not be able to run them properly, but the OS itself will not be fragmented. Tango is not a branch outside the regular WP-branch.

I have no idea what you're talking about so here is a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/007/445/pancake_bunny.jpg?1249339142

In other news Tango is being developed specifically to prevent fragmentation in emerging markets as part of the Nokia agreement. You may ask yourself why all phones are getting it even though most wont need it. New features.

 

[dbgman]

When Apollo gets released it will be two years after WP 7 was release. Eventually I would think that the OS would evolve and the hardware requirements will change. The first gen devices that lack the features that Apollo will use will make them obsolete. Also, supporting older devices is good for a while but eventually you have to move on.

I do not mock the 1st gen devices. I loved my Samsung Focus but I moved on to my Titan and have not looked back. I do not even use my tablet now(should sell it on ebay) because it has a larger screen and everything I need.

I think the cell phone average life cycle is two years. This is to keep with the carrier contracts.

 

[selfcreation]

MS confirmed in a tweet about one week ago that fragmentation is not something thats gona be affecting the OS when Apollo comes out.

http://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-windows-phone-8-will-run-all-your-old-windows-phone-7-apps


anything after Apollo is not confirmed, but most likely will be the same,.

Apollo will bring UGE changes to the OS ( res , duel-core ect...) so if first gen's phone get Apollo , one can only assume that we will also get future updates. unless they come out with quad-cores.. and 3D ect.. ( i would love 3D )

Quad-cores are announce on android phones for 2012 soo will see.

 

[bear_lx]

samsung wont get 3d, only htc

 

[selfcreation]

samsung wont get 3d, only htc

ROLF! i missed you dizzyMaker lol

 

[Major]

Fragmentation is when current generation hardware is stuck running an older version of the OS. Old hardware running an old OS version is not fragmentation; it's merely obsolence.

 

[jfa1]

Quite right Major!

 

[selfcreation]

Fragmentation is when current generation hardware is stuck running an older version of the OS. Old hardware running an old OS version is not fragmentation; it's merely obsolence.

Old hardware not being able to upgrade to new software = fragmentation as well


i dunno about you but ive never herd of a company stupid enough to release a NEW hardware on OLD software...

its like if the GS2 had gingerbread and not icecreem sandwich .. and was nto able to upgrade.... they would never do that.


EDIT: thanks KENZIBIT for my 100th thanked lol!! WOoT!

 

[canesfan625]

Old hardware not being able to upgrade to new software = fragmentation as well


i dunno about you but ive never herd of a company stupid enough to release a NEW hardware on OLD software...

its like if the GS2 had gingerbread and not icecreem sandwich .. and was nto able to upgrade.... they would never do that.

That's not a good example. Carriers don't upgrade Android phones just because they don't feel like it. Hardware seems to be irrelevant regardless *cough*samsung, motorola*cough*

 

[selfcreation]

That's not a good example. Carriers don't upgrade Android phones just because they don't feel like it. Hardware seems to be irrelevant regardless *cough*samsung, motorola*cough*

i wasnt talking about carriers. i was talking about OEM ( Samsung, HTC ect...) they are the MAIN reason for Fragmentation on android because of , HTC sens , MOTO BLUR ect... and normally they design the new phones to work with the lates Software, but they dont take future updates into account.

an other reason why most OEMs don't have access to the CORE of WP to prevent this ( Nokia is an exception to this rule, but they said they wouldn't touch anything to prevent it )

 

[canesfan625]

i wasnt talking about carriers. i was talking about OEM ( Samsung, HTC ect...) they are the MAIN reason for Fragmentation on android because of , HTC sens , MOTO BLUR ect... and normally they design the new phones to work with the lates Software, but they dont take future updates into account.

an other reason why most OEMs don't have access to the CORE of WP to prevent this ( Nokia is an exception to this rule, but they said they wouldn't touch anything to prevent it )

Google is the main reason for fragmentation on Android with their lack of standards. The phone design is irrelevant, again, look at the Galaxy for exapmple Same CPU/Ram as the Nexus S and plenty of storage yet it isn't getting ICS. Samsung claims "hardware limitations" yeah it limits you buying the S II

 

[Major]

Old hardware not being able to upgrade to new software = fragmentation as well

By this definition, all mobile OSes are fragmented. All hardware will eventually become old enough to be unable to run the latest OS, thus becoming fragmented (by your definition). I don't think this is what is generally referred to as fragmentation.

The key is one's definition of "old" hardware. In my opinion, a device that was released three or more years ago is old, at which point it is reasonable to expect it to be obsolete. Once obsolete, an OS cannot be reasonably expected to support it.

For instance, iOS5 is supported by the iPhone 4S, 4, and 3GS, but not the 3G or the original iPhone. Is this because the 3G and original are obsolete, or because iOS is fragmented? I say obsolescence.

 

[selfcreation]

Google is the main reason for fragmentation on Android with their lack of standards. The phone design is irrelevant, again, look at the Galaxy for exapmple Same CPU/Ram as the Nexus S and plenty of storage yet it isn't getting ICS. Samsung claims "hardware limitations" yeah it limits you buying the S II

ok wow.. try reading before you post ok?? i never said hardware caused fragmentation. Software does.. like HTC sens , MOTO blure....

Goole them self dont cause the fragmentation ( they actually try to avoid it )

but because of the OPEN SOURCE codes... OEM's (Samsung,HTC,LG,Sony ) can change the codes with OUT sharing it with Google... so when the new update comes out Google cant write compatible codes to mach the once from the OEM's codes. witch causes fragmentation. or lack of compatibility,

Open source on android works liek this:

1.Google writes a code then they share it with the world ( OEMs).

2. then the OEMs uses the code and adds extra features to it ( like HTC sens , MOTO BLURE ) witch they DO NOT need to share with the rest of the world.( OEM secrets)

so when google makes the NEXT version (the update), they have NO idea what HTC,Samsung or Motorola did to the past codes. so they cant adapt the update to be compatible with old phones ( unless you put a cocked ROM)

hence causing fragmentation.

There are different open-source licenses that have different use conditions, from the GPL (GNU General Public License) -- which allows "free distribution under the condition that further developments and applications are put under the same license" -- to more liberal licenses like the Apache License, which doesn't require modifications to be open and have the source code available. Android uses both of these licenses

Oem's use the: Apache License ( meaning they dont need to share, hence causing fragmentation when new updates come out.)

fully explained here:http://www.androidcentral.com/what-open-source-android-z

 

[selfcreation]

By this definition, all mobile OSes are fragmented. All hardware will eventually become old enough to be unable to run the latest OS, thus becoming fragmented (by your definition). I don't think this is what is generally referred to as fragmentation.

The key is one's definition of "old" hardware. In my opinion, a device that was released three or more years ago is old, at which point it is reasonable to expect it to be obsolete. Once obsolete, an OS cannot be reasonably expected to support it.

For instance, iOS5 is supported by the iPhone 4S, 4, and 3GS, but not the 3G or the original iPhone. Is this because the 3G and original are obsolete, or because iOS is fragmented? I say obsolesce.

well i would say that Ios got Fragmented starting on the 3G and older. you say obsolesce i say fragmented. in the end when they talk about PHONE fragmentation they simply mean incompatibility of APPS/games/software between old and new phones.

Hey, Google: Here's What Fragmentation Means | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

 

[aubreyq]

well i would say that Ios got Fragmented starting on the 3G and older. you say obsolesce i say fragmented. in the end when they talk about PHONE fragmentation they simply mean incompatibility of APPS/games/software between old and new phones.

Hey, Google: Here's What Fragmentation Means | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

I have to respectfully disagree with you, Se1fcr3ation. One cannot expect current hardware to be compatible with all future revisions of an operating system. Are you saying Pentium computer circa 1997 should run Windows 8 and if it doesn't, it's fragmented? In the case of iOS 5, the iPhone 3G doesn't meet the hardware requirements to support it, so why do you consider the iPhone 3G fragmented?

Let's face it, the word "fragmentation" became a tech buzz word because of Android. New phones were being released that COULD NOT be updated 3 months down the road. That's because Google doesn't have template hardware like Microsoft has. It's more like, "Hardware makers, Gingerbread might work if you do this and this."

Microsoft at least says "You use this hardware, it WILL run Windows Phone." They will possibly say "up until Windows Phone #", but you won't get a phone to find out that it won't take an update 3 months later. It would be like 1st gen Windows Phone not being upgradeable to Mango, for example.

There is such a thing as obsolescence.

 

[scottcraft]

I would agree that ios isn't experiencing fragmentation. I expect Windows phone to be on a similar situation down the road. Our first generation phones won't be able to get every future update, but they should be ok at least through Apollo.

Sent from my Windows7 Phone using Board Express

 

[jfa1]

I think that the original Iphone and perhaps the 2g cant run ios 5 and that to me is just obsolescence! not fragmentation. As has been said everything will be update through Apollo after that we have to wait and see.