1. kenzibit's Avatar
    Been thinking about this lately, since they say Tango will introduce WP OS to low end devices, won't there be fragmentation in the OS when an update like Apollo comes. How can a low end WP with a 128 or 256 MB RAM and ROM upgrade to Apollo. Can any one please enlighten me on this coz I love WP and wouldn't want anything to happen to it. Can low end devices upgrade to any update MSFT releases after Apollo?

    Thanks.
    02-01-2012 05:38 AM
  2. pikacz's Avatar
    well, MS and Nokia promised to not go the android way, so we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed. i think the 1st gen devices will still get updates, but they may not be the same for new phones, e.g. new phones have gyroscopes so this feature cannot be updated for 1st gen phones cause they don't have it, same thing for front-facing cameras
    kenzibit likes this.
    02-01-2012 05:47 AM
  3. Giddora's Avatar
    Simple... Tango is here to fix lower system requirements, which will also apply to "high-end devices". When apollo comes, the system itself will not have higher requirements, but they will support higher ended hardware. It will however not require you to a higher end phone to run as smooth as before.

    Some things will not be available to low-end phones as they will not be able to run them properly, but the OS itself will not be fragmented. Tango is not a branch outside the regular WP-branch.
    kenzibit likes this.
    02-01-2012 06:37 AM
  4. canesfan625's Avatar
    Simple... Tango is here to fix lower system requirements, which will also apply to "high-end devices". When apollo comes, the system itself will not have higher requirements, but they will support higher ended hardware. It will however not require you to a higher end phone to run as smooth as before.

    Some things will not be available to low-end phones as they will not be able to run them properly, but the OS itself will not be fragmented. Tango is not a branch outside the regular WP-branch.
    I have no idea what you're talking about so here is a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1249339142

    In other news Tango is being developed specifically to prevent fragmentation in emerging markets as part of the Nokia agreement. You may ask yourself why all phones are getting it even though most wont need it. New features.
    02-01-2012 09:47 AM
  5. dbgman's Avatar
    When Apollo gets released it will be two years after WP 7 was release. Eventually I would think that the OS would evolve and the hardware requirements will change. The first gen devices that lack the features that Apollo will use will make them obsolete. Also, supporting older devices is good for a while but eventually you have to move on.

    I do not mock the 1st gen devices. I loved my Samsung Focus but I moved on to my Titan and have not looked back. I do not even use my tablet now(should sell it on ebay) because it has a larger screen and everything I need.

    I think the cell phone average life cycle is two years. This is to keep with the carrier contracts.
    02-01-2012 10:28 AM
  6. selfcreation's Avatar
    MS confirmed in a tweet about one week ago that fragmentation is not something thats gona be affecting the OS when Apollo comes out.

    http://www.windowscentral.com/micros...s-phone-7-apps


    anything after Apollo is not confirmed, but most likely will be the same,.

    Apollo will bring UGE changes to the OS ( res , duel-core ect...) so if first gen's phone get Apollo , one can only assume that we will also get future updates. unless they come out with quad-cores.. and 3D ect.. ( i would love 3D )

    Quad-cores are announce on android phones for 2012 soo will see.
    02-01-2012 11:16 AM
  7. bear_lx's Avatar
    samsung wont get 3d, only htc
    selfcreation likes this.
    02-01-2012 11:43 AM
  8. selfcreation's Avatar
    samsung wont get 3d, only htc
    ROLF! i missed you dizzyMaker ;) lol
    02-01-2012 11:47 AM
  9. Major's Avatar
    Fragmentation is when current generation hardware is stuck running an older version of the OS. Old hardware running an old OS version is not fragmentation; it's merely obsolence.
    aubreyq and Residing like this.
    02-01-2012 11:50 AM
  10. jfa1's Avatar
    Quite right Major!
    02-01-2012 11:52 AM
  11. selfcreation's Avatar
    Fragmentation is when current generation hardware is stuck running an older version of the OS. Old hardware running an old OS version is not fragmentation; it's merely obsolence.

    Old hardware not being able to upgrade to new software = fragmentation as well


    i dunno about you but ive never herd of a company stupid enough to release a NEW hardware on OLD software...

    its like if the GS2 had gingerbread and not icecreem sandwich .. and was nto able to upgrade.... they would never do that.


    EDIT: thanks KENZIBIT for my 100th thanked :) lol!! WOoT!
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 02-01-2012 at 06:30 PM.
    kenzibit likes this.
    02-01-2012 12:02 PM
  12. canesfan625's Avatar
    Old hardware not being able to upgrade to new software = fragmentation as well


    i dunno about you but ive never herd of a company stupid enough to release a NEW hardware on OLD software...

    its like if the GS2 had gingerbread and not icecreem sandwich .. and was nto able to upgrade.... they would never do that.
    That's not a good example. Carriers don't upgrade Android phones just because they don't feel like it. Hardware seems to be irrelevant regardless *cough*samsung, motorola*cough*
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 02-01-2012 at 12:25 PM.
    02-01-2012 12:08 PM
  13. selfcreation's Avatar
    That's not a good example. Carriers don't upgrade Android phones just because they don't feel like it. Hardware seems to be irrelevant regardless *cough*samsung, motorola*cough*
    i wasnt talking about carriers. i was talking about OEM ( Samsung, HTC ect...) they are the MAIN reason for Fragmentation on android because of , HTC sens , MOTO BLUR ect... and normally they design the new phones to work with the lates Software, but they dont take future updates into account.

    an other reason why most OEMs don't have access to the CORE of WP to prevent this ( Nokia is an exception to this rule, but they said they wouldn't touch anything to prevent it )
    02-01-2012 12:45 PM
  14. canesfan625's Avatar
    i wasnt talking about carriers. i was talking about OEM ( Samsung, HTC ect...) they are the MAIN reason for Fragmentation on android because of , HTC sens , MOTO BLUR ect... and normally they design the new phones to work with the lates Software, but they dont take future updates into account.

    an other reason why most OEMs don't have access to the CORE of WP to prevent this ( Nokia is an exception to this rule, but they said they wouldn't touch anything to prevent it )
    Google is the main reason for fragmentation on Android with their lack of standards. The phone design is irrelevant, again, look at the Galaxy for exapmple Same CPU/Ram as the Nexus S and plenty of storage yet it isn't getting ICS. Samsung claims "hardware limitations" yeah it limits you buying the S II
    aubreyq likes this.
    02-01-2012 01:11 PM
  15. Major's Avatar
    Old hardware not being able to upgrade to new software = fragmentation as well
    By this definition, all mobile OSes are fragmented. All hardware will eventually become old enough to be unable to run the latest OS, thus becoming fragmented (by your definition). I don't think this is what is generally referred to as fragmentation.

    The key is one's definition of "old" hardware. In my opinion, a device that was released three or more years ago is old, at which point it is reasonable to expect it to be obsolete. Once obsolete, an OS cannot be reasonably expected to support it.

    For instance, iOS5 is supported by the iPhone 4S, 4, and 3GS, but not the 3G or the original iPhone. Is this because the 3G and original are obsolete, or because iOS is fragmented? I say obsolescence.
    Last edited by MajorLonghorn; 02-01-2012 at 03:30 PM. Reason: spelling
    aubreyq and Residing like this.
    02-01-2012 01:24 PM
  16. selfcreation's Avatar
    Google is the main reason for fragmentation on Android with their lack of standards. The phone design is irrelevant, again, look at the Galaxy for exapmple Same CPU/Ram as the Nexus S and plenty of storage yet it isn't getting ICS. Samsung claims "hardware limitations" yeah it limits you buying the S II
    ok wow.. try reading before you post ok?? i never said hardware caused fragmentation. Software does.. like HTC sens , MOTO blure....

    Goole them self dont cause the fragmentation ( they actually try to avoid it )

    but because of the OPEN SOURCE codes... OEM's (Samsung,HTC,LG,Sony ) can change the codes with OUT sharing it with Google... so when the new update comes out Google cant write compatible codes to mach the once from the OEM's codes. witch causes fragmentation. or lack of compatibility,

    Open source on android works liek this:

    1.Google writes a code then they share it with the world ( OEMs).

    2. then the OEMs uses the code and adds extra features to it ( like HTC sens , MOTO BLURE ) witch they DO NOT need to share with the rest of the world.( OEM secrets)

    so when google makes the NEXT version (the update), they have NO idea what HTC,Samsung or Motorola did to the past codes. so they cant adapt the update to be compatible with old phones ( unless you put a cocked ROM)

    hence causing fragmentation.

    There are different open-source licenses that have different use conditions, from the GPL (GNU General Public License) -- which allows "free distribution under the condition that further developments and applications are put under the same license" -- to more liberal licenses like the Apache License, which doesn't require modifications to be open and have the source code available. Android uses both of these licenses

    Oem's use the: Apache License ( meaning they dont need to share, hence causing fragmentation when new updates come out.)

    fully explained here:http://www.androidcentral.com/what-o...urce-android-z
    02-01-2012 01:41 PM
  17. selfcreation's Avatar
    By this definition, all mobile OSes are fragmented. All hardware will eventually become old enough to be unable to run the latest OS, thus becoming fragmented (by your definition). I don't think this is what is generally referred to as fragmentation.

    The key is one's definition of "old" hardware. In my opinion, a device that was released three or more years ago is old, at which point it is reasonable to expect it to be obsolete. Once obsolete, an OS cannot be reasonably expected to support it.

    For instance, iOS5 is supported by the iPhone 4S, 4, and 3GS, but not the 3G or the original iPhone. Is this because the 3G and original are obsolete, or because iOS is fragmented? I say obsolesce.

    well i would say that Ios got Fragmented starting on the 3G and older. you say obsolesce i say fragmented. in the end when they talk about PHONE fragmentation they simply mean incompatibility of APPS/games/software between old and new phones.

    Hey, Google: Here's What Fragmentation Means | News & Opinion | PCMag.com
    02-01-2012 01:48 PM
  18. aubreyq's Avatar
    well i would say that Ios got Fragmented starting on the 3G and older. you say obsolesce i say fragmented. in the end when they talk about PHONE fragmentation they simply mean incompatibility of APPS/games/software between old and new phones.

    Hey, Google: Here's What Fragmentation Means | News & Opinion | PCMag.com
    I have to respectfully disagree with you, Se1fcr3ation. One cannot expect current hardware to be compatible with all future revisions of an operating system. Are you saying Pentium computer circa 1997 should run Windows 8 and if it doesn't, it's fragmented? In the case of iOS 5, the iPhone 3G doesn't meet the hardware requirements to support it, so why do you consider the iPhone 3G fragmented?

    Let's face it, the word "fragmentation" became a tech buzz word because of Android. New phones were being released that COULD NOT be updated 3 months down the road. That's because Google doesn't have template hardware like Microsoft has. It's more like, "Hardware makers, Gingerbread might work if you do this and this."

    Microsoft at least says "You use this hardware, it WILL run Windows Phone." They will possibly say "up until Windows Phone #", but you won't get a phone to find out that it won't take an update 3 months later. It would be like 1st gen Windows Phone not being upgradeable to Mango, for example.

    There is such a thing as obsolescence.
    02-01-2012 03:32 PM
  19. scottcraft's Avatar
    I would agree that ios isn't experiencing fragmentation. I expect Windows phone to be on a similar situation down the road. Our first generation phones won't be able to get every future update, but they should be ok at least through Apollo.

    Sent from my Windows7 Phone using Board Express
    02-01-2012 03:38 PM
  20. jfa1's Avatar
    I think that the original Iphone and perhaps the 2g cant run ios 5 and that to me is just obsolescence! not fragmentation. As has been said everything will be update through Apollo after that we have to wait and see.
    02-01-2012 03:42 PM
  21. selfcreation's Avatar
    I have to respectfully disagree with you, Se1fcr3ation. One cannot expect current hardware to be compatible with all future revisions of an operating system. Are you saying Pentium computer circa 1997 should run Windows 8 and if it doesn't, it's fragmented? In the case of iOS 5, the iPhone 3G doesn't meet the hardware requirements to support it, so why do you consider the iPhone 3G fragmented?

    Let's face it, the word "fragmentation" became a tech buzz word because of Android. New phones were being released that COULD NOT be updated 3 months down the road. That's because Google doesn't have template hardware like Microsoft has. It's more like, "Hardware makers, Gingerbread might work if you do this and this."

    Microsoft at least says "You use this hardware, it WILL run Windows Phone." They will possibly say "up until Windows Phone #", but you won't get a phone to find out that it won't take an update 3 months later. It would be like 1st gen Windows Phone not being upgradeable to Mango, for example.

    There is such a thing as obsolescence.

    LOL, ook we are going waaaaay to to deep here!! i think we both agree on the same thing but are explaining it differently.

    im not saying the 1997 PC should run Windows 8 at all.... lol you cant possibly expect them to!!! and its normal that the original Iphones dont run the new IOS

    same thing WILL happen to WP at some point!!!! like you said the word * fragmentation* doesn't even mean what we are talking about,,

    in other words.. its used VERY lightly. and it is just a tech buzz word


    Real definition of fragmentation has nothing to do with *updates*

    Fragmentation:
    refers to the condition of a disk in which files are divided into pieces scattered around the disk. Fragmentation occurs naturally when you use a disk frequently, creating, deleting, and modifying files. At some point, the operating system needs to store parts of a file in noncontiguous clusters. This is entirely invisible to users, but it can slow down the speed at which data is accessed because the disk drive must search through different parts of the disk to put together a single file.


    ROLF!


    BOTTOM LINE!: i expect WP to get all the updates ( from GEN 1 device to recent) for the next couple updates coming AFTER Apollo ,, again unless something ground breaking comes out. First GEN device users will probably be fine for an other year or 2.
    02-01-2012 03:51 PM
  22. canesfan625's Avatar
    Thats the definition of fragmentation in computing not as it applies to devices. Some of us might speak from experience like owning the G1 for example. Talk about being left behind. Here is some of the 'light buzz word' the understatement: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

    Call it what you want. Developers are getting nervous.
    selfcreation likes this.
    02-01-2012 04:44 PM
  23. selfcreation's Avatar
    Thats the definition of fragmentation in computing not as it applies to devices. Some of us might speak from experience like owning the G1 for example. Talk about being left behind. Here is some of the 'light buzz word' the understatement: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

    Call it what you want. Developers are getting nervous.
    you claiming i dont have experience budy? ;) lol i go trough 15phones a year... i work in cell phones lol. ( my History goes like this: BB = 10phones , Android = 17phones , Iphone = NEVER! , WM =8phones, WP =4phones , WEBOS = 1 phone , Sybian = 1phone , BADA= 1phones )

    on topic:

    ROLF!!! LMAO!!! at the android article

    that Spread sheet should be posted ALL OVER the WEB, maybe more people would switch to WP ;) lol
    02-01-2012 04:48 PM
  24. kylej1050's Avatar
    I have no idea what you're talking about so here is a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1249339142
    baaaahahahaha
    02-01-2012 10:40 PM
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