Defending our Lovely platform

[selfcreation]

I defend WP like its my JOB!
i even defend it from WPCENTRAL MEMBERS!! lol


as for Facebook and twit integration: you guys ARE AWARE that its not meant to replace the app right?? MS cleared said it was for a easy and quick access to lattes news.

if you want more that's why they continue to support external apps.

 

[Daakkon]

the apps we do have currently suck. Facebook, twitter, and YouTube are all things people do everyday, and we don't have official apps for these? Still?

 

[roffleswaffles]

To save them the frustration. Windows Phone is lacking in specs, features, apps and games. I can't recommend it but an straight face knowing well that it won't make that person happy.

I do tell everyone I like it and when I get the frequent question or Android vs Apple I will say Windows Phone 10 times out of 10. Recommend it however? Microsoft better step their game up before that happens.

I very much agree with this. I'm really happy with my WP; I rave and brag about its functionality with my friends, and they too like my phone, but it's seriously hard for me to say, "You really ought to get a Windows Phone!" I just tell them upfront about what the weaknesses and strengths of all the platforms and let them decide. Some people care about functionality, some people care about having apps. For example, someone (not on this board) mentioned they liked using an iPhone because it just tells them what to do and they don't need to work on customizing it-- good for them.

And I agree on that the potential is through the roof with this platform. I'm very excited to see where this platform goes.

 

[doublebullout]

as for Facebook and twit integration: you guys ARE AWARE that its not meant to replace the app right?? MS cleared said it was for a easy and quick access to lattes news.

if you want more that's why they continue to support external apps.

You're missing the point. The integration into the People hub is supposed to collect status updates, the most basic part of the Facebook experience. Microsoft did not intend for the People hub to provide all of the advanced functionality of the Facebook website or external apps, but Microsoft certainly intended to aggregate status updates for the people in the user's contacts. It is a legitimate complaint to point out that Microsoft's implementation of this has some flaws. The People hub does not, in fact, reliably show Facebook status updates.




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[N8ter]

Keep talking about what's coming in Apolla/WP8 as if it's going to change someone's mind ot go with another platform right now due to lacks in the platform or mediocre hardware in the phone. That's the main issue with WP7 and it's been its main issue since the beginning. It's always been about waiting for what other devices had years ago to come out in 6 months to a year. The cycle continues, apparently...

Also what does a screenshot of desktop Windows 7 have to do with anything? I can link Mac and Linux/Solaris screenshots and they'll mean just as much (not much). Windows 7 doesn't run on ARM and ARM and x86 aren't the same. x86 DUMPS all over ARM when it comes to performance. The only things in ARM that are superior is Power Management (which explains why it is ubiquitous in mobile devices, and that has been Intel's #1 problem with their mobile SoCs) and perhaps GPUs packaged with the SoC (but Intel seems to be doing more than well there from the demos not long ago).

From a performance perspective, clock for clock, ARM can't even think to match x86 so linking a Windows 7 x64 screenshot in some wild attempt to make a point about performance and CPU usage is useless in this discussion.

Many Windows Machines also offload transcoding to GPUs as well (especially people with Discrete Graphics cards from ATI or nVidia), which muddies that up even more. For example, with an ATI card you can do all the transcoding with the GPU in CCC.

This is also why stating the clock speed of an Android Dual Core and saying it can run a laptop seems odd for me. Do you seriously think you can run Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on those ARM CPUs decently compared even to Dual Core Atom x86 CPUs? Lol.

And Android isn't the only platform with Dual Cores. iOS and even RIM (in the Playbook) has them. Let's broaden our horizons and stop trying to use the Android as a crutch. Not like you're stopping their marketshare growth.

WP7 isn't much better than Android for updates. Even security updates are held back by the carrier. The 8107 has a critical security patch for security certificates and it hasn't even made it to people's phones. That would never happen with iOS and it certainly wouldn't happen with any Desktop OS. Like I said my Vibrant got more updates than my HD7 in the same timespan including one major OS revision. I never had to deal with a buggy keyboard on that phone though. I guess if the keyboard in Mango wasn't so broken I probably wouldn't even care because I've been trying hard not to these days.

 

[dtboos]

The only reason it wont show status updates is because of the way facebook security settings work.

If your friends don't have their settings to allow 3rd party applications to receive the data, then it wont populate your integrated feed. Facebook needs to treat that like a 1st party app, but I'm not sure they will. So your friends need to change their settings.

 

[aubreyq]

I defend WP like its my JOB!

I prefer to defend the needs of the end user

...as for Facebook and twit integration: you guys ARE AWARE that its not meant to replace the app right??

Is that so? If it's not meant to replace the app, Microsoft sure is making a big deal out of something that is not meant to replace an app.

MS cleared said it was for a easy and quick access to lattes news.

Quick and easy access to whose news, exactly? Your friend updates that you'll never see because of their privacy settings?

if you want more that's why they continue to support external apps.

And they are doing a $hitty job of supporting the external apps. So, bottom line, you have a half-a$$ People Hub and a half-a$$ Facebook/Twitter. Not inspiring.

You're missing the point. The integration into the People hub is supposed to collect status updates, the most basic part of the Facebook experience. Microsoft did not intend for the People hub to provide all of the advanced functionality of the Facebook website or external apps, but Microsoft certainly intended to aggregate status updates for the people in the user's contacts. It is a legitimate complaint to point out that Microsoft's implementation of this has some flaws. The People hub does not, in fact, reliably show Facebook status updates.

THANK YOU

 

[1jaxstate1]

The overall feel of it does NOT seem anywhere near sluggish. Not on new phones. What matters is a matter of opinion.

Maybe you missed the point on what's wrong with Android. They have the processing power to do some laptop stuff (really though, with no mouse, small screen real estate and resolution, it is a POOR implementation, unless the goal is to say "I can do that"), yet the overall feel of the OS often feels so sluggish. WP7 focuses on what matters. In a way, I think it's a discussion on whether you think a phone/tablet/PC should eventually morph into a single thing. I don't think it should, and I don't think a phone's job is to be as much of a laptop as possible (WinMo had been there, done that - I had it - glad to have WP7).

But I also still insist on using a desktop PC with a 24" monitor for real computer tasks. Even simple web browsing is superior on my 1280x800 13.3" laptop than my 800x480 4.7" phone. And guess what - even simple web browsing is AGAIN superoir on my 1920x1200 24" monitor than my laptop. Nevermind all the other things that work better there.

Perhaps mine is the minority opinion. Others appear to have been using laptops for years already as their main computer, and think they can switch to tablets. So my perspective is different. I also do not like this trend.

 

[aubreyq]

The only reason it wont show status updates is because of the way facebook security settings work.

We know this. Microsoft knows this. Facebook knows this.

...Facebook needs to treat that like a 1st party app, but I'm not sure they will.

I don't think they will, either. Not very reassuring, is it?

So your friends need to change their settings.

Right, because that's what you want to tell your security-savvy friends just to make it convenient for you. Good luck with that!

 

[doublebullout]

Having experience using PalmOS, Win Mobile, iOS, webOS, Android and WP7, there are only three mobile OS platforms I have ever recommended to other people: PalmOS, iOS and WP7. (I don't recommend PalmOS these days, of course.)

Whenever I am asked my opinion about what phone to get, I always ask "do you already have all your media in iTunes, or do you also own other Apple products like an iPad or AppleTV?" If the answer is "No," then I suggest that they take a serious look at WP7. If the answer is "Yes," I suggest that they buy an iPhone and don't look back.

I never, ever under any circumstances whatsoever recommend Android. Well, maybe if the person asking is a masochist.


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[aubreyq]

Keep talking about what's coming in Apolla/WP8 as if it's going to change someone's mind ot go with another platform right now due to lacks in the platform or mediocre hardware in the phone. That's the main issue with WP7 and it's been its main issue since the beginning. It's always been about waiting for what other devices had years ago to come out in 6 months to a year. The cycle continues, apparently...

True. It'll be weird for me to tell someone who's about to buy a smartphone "Wait until the end of the year. WP will be really good!" Not exactly what I want to tell those asking me for advice.

I'm getting tired of the "wait another 6 months" routine. First was "wait for NoDo", then "Wait for Mango...oops, we broke the keyboard, wait until the carrier feels like updating the phone. What, you ask? Oh no, we already gave 8107 to the carrier, it's up to them to deliver it to you."

Apollo better be a game-changer, I swear. I'm on contract until the end of the year so I pretty much have to wait anyway.

...Even security updates are held back by the carrier...That would never happen with iOS and it certainly wouldn't happen with any Desktop OS.

Yup. It's ridiculous!

 

[doublebullout]

What troubles me as a WP7 fan is that all of the "wait for Apollo" and "WP7 has so much potential" talk is EXACTLY what webOS users said from the beginning of the Pre launch. Listen to Blackberry diehards talk about QNX aka BBX aka Blackberry 10 and you'll swear there's a third echo in the room. I'm hopeful that Microsoft can respond with more urgency than Palm, HP or RIM have shown, but I've seen this movie before and the ending is not a happy one.


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[aubreyq]

What troubles me as a WP7 fan is that all of the "wait for Apollo" and "WP7 has so much potential" talk is EXACTLY what webOS users said from the beginning of the Pre launch. Listen to Blackberry diehards talk about QNX aka BBX aka Blackberry 10 and you'll swear there's a third echo in the room. I'm hopeful that Microsoft can respond with more urgency than Palm, HP or RIM have shown, but I've seen this movie before and the ending is not a happy one.

That's a scary thought, but I take comfort in the fact that Microsoft has deep pockets and has made internal changes that are more strongly focused on the end user experience.

I really wanted webOS and the Pr? to succeed. Love the webOS interface. The Pr? was supposed to be my first smartphone, but it all went downhill. Oh, well.

 

[CHIP72]

I'm more optimistic that Microsoft will carry through on improving WP OS than I am with RIM and Blackberry BBX/10 because Microsoft is betting heavily on Windows 8 on what is a key platform for them (I think tablets will primarily become tablet/netbook hybrids in the future and Microsoft will want to make sure it is a major player in that segment) and there will be a high degree of overlap between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8. (RIM also has a much more negative perception than Microsoft does right now; having said that I bought a Blackberry Playbook a couple weeks ago and I really like Blackberry QNX OS. It ranks behind only WP OS in my user interface preferences; I've come to realize user interface is highly important to me.) My comments above are not to say the criticisms people have mentioned in this thread aren't legitimate; I know I have some significant issues with WP OS, specifically e-mail.

 

[ubizmo]

Speaking as one of those BlackBerry diehards, it seems to me that MS should have its crosshairs on RIM at the moment, not Apple or Android. Those two Goliaths will be way out of reach for a while. For now, the battle is for third place.

I like the BB. I bought a 9900 and don't regret it a bit. It's still my "main phone"; the Radar is my "experimental" phone. But I keep an open mind. There are things I don't like about iOS and Android, so I want someone to do a better job, eventually. At the moment WP and BB are the two contenders.

People scoff at BB these days, but even with BB10 probably farther off than Apollo, BBOS7 still has some advantages over WP7, so the first job for WP should be to close that gap. Since smartphones are, for many users, primarily about communication, MS should be paying close attention to ease of communication. Since the virtual keyboard is still the primary input method, MS should be working hard to improve it. It's not bad, but could be better. There should be Swype, or something similar. People need options, when it comes to output.

And they need options when it comes to output. That includes more flexibility in notifications, sound profiles, etc. BB lets me creates as many custom sound profiles as I want, and this isn't really a frill. People who use their phones in a wide variety of settings need to be able to switch between profiles easily.

As I've pointed out in other threads, the way text is displayed on the screen needs to be more configurable, especially in the browser. People have different eyes and different visual requirements; one size does not fit all.

I think MS is already doing a good job getting developers interested, and landing apps. There is good growth in the Marketplace and many of the "name" apps are there, even though there are still some missing. On the whole, I think the trend is positive. Here's where WP can surge ahead of BB, since there's little developer interest in OS7 while everyone waits to see what BB10 will do.

The issue with Facebook updates and the People hub may not have a ready solution. I have mixed feelings about the whole People Hub concept anyway, and I'm tempted to disable it, assuming that's possible. When I want to see FB updates, I'll open FB. When I want to read tweets, I'll open a Twitter client. I don't need to have all of that being constantly fed to my phone. Maybe I'll come to like it, but at the moment it's too reminiscent of MotoBlur, which I didn't like either. I delete the Social Feeds app on my BB for the same reason. But that's just me.

 

[aubreyq]

The issue with Facebook updates and the People hub may not have a ready solution. I have mixed feelings about the whole People Hub concept anyway, and I'm tempted to disable it, assuming that's possible. When I want to see FB updates, I'll open FB. When I want to read tweets, I'll open a Twitter client. I don't need to have all of that being constantly fed to my phone. Maybe I'll come to like it, but at the moment it's too reminiscent of MotoBlur, which I didn't like either. I delete the Social Feeds app on my BB for the same reason. But that's just me.

You can easily disconnect FB and Twitter from the People Hub. I actually did it but lasted less than a day because I liked the Me tile's notifications and being able to post to Twitter and Facebook simultaneously for some posts. Still, if FB and Twitter were rock solid, I would do away with the People Hub.

 

[N8ter]

Nope. If you disconnect FB from Windows Live you cannot connect to FB chat. That all relies on FB being tied to your Windows Live Account on Microsoft's end. On one hand it's a bit shabby, but it makes sense because it removes the need for Microsoft to always update the OS FW when FB makes a change that may break functionality. They simply patch it on their end (on the servers), which is much more efficient and of course deploys to users way quicker.

I actually prefer it that way, but I think it may be one of the reasons why FB Chat is so laggy and volatile on WP7 as opposed to 1st party FB apps on other platforms.

Re: Blackberry...

I, like you (ubizm0) had a 9780 and the keyboard on that model was notoriously defective (double typing, etc.). RIM did absolutely nothing about it. Nothing else to say there...

Secondly, the reason why BB plummeted - despite all the other obvious reasons - is cause RIM publicly said basically BBOS 7 is a dead end, but still buy our phones even though you'll be stuck on an ill-supported platform. The only developers excited about Blackberry right now, are RIM itself. ANd BB10 is too late. They should have done that instead of the Playbook which was a massive failure, IMO. The smartphone market is way more competitive than the tablet market right now and Android was actually quite shabby on Tablets for the first half a year or more after Honeycomb release.

In that sense, I think Microsoft did it correct by releasing a smartphone platform and concentrating on Tablets afterwards... RIM made a bad bet, IMO, and it cost them.

Microsoft was still foolish to ignore the corporate sector, though... I bet they're regretting that, especially with Windows 8 on the horizon.

 

[Mahesha999]

Keep talking about what's coming in Apolla/WP8 as if it's going to change someone's mind ot go with another platform right now due to lacks in the platform or mediocre hardware in the phone. That's the main issue with WP7 and it's been its main issue since the beginning. It's always been about waiting for what other devices had years ago to come out in 6 months to a year. The cycle continues, apparently...

Also what does a screenshot of desktop Windows 7 have to do with anything? I can link Mac and Linux/Solaris screenshots and they'll mean just as much (not much). Windows 7 doesn't run on ARM and ARM and x86 aren't the same. x86 DUMPS all over ARM when it comes to performance. The only things in ARM that are superior is Power Management (which explains why it is ubiquitous in mobile devices, and that has been Intel's #1 problem with their mobile SoCs) and perhaps GPUs packaged with the SoC (but Intel seems to be doing more than well there from the demos not long ago).

From a performance perspective, clock for clock, ARM can't even think to match x86 so linking a Windows 7 x64 screenshot in some wild attempt to make a point about performance and CPU usage is useless in this discussion.

Many Windows Machines also offload transcoding to GPUs as well (especially people with Discrete Graphics cards from ATI or nVidia), which muddies that up even more. For example, with an ATI card you can do all the transcoding with the GPU in CCC.

This is also why stating the clock speed of an Android Dual Core and saying it can run a laptop seems odd for me. Do you seriously think you can run Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on those ARM CPUs decently compared even to Dual Core Atom x86 CPUs? Lol.

And Android isn't the only platform with Dual Cores. iOS and even RIM (in the Playbook) has them. Let's broaden our horizons and stop trying to use the Android as a crutch. Not like you're stopping their marketshare growth.

WP7 isn't much better than Android for updates. Even security updates are held back by the carrier. The 8107 has a critical security patch for security certificates and it hasn't even made it to people's phones. That would never happen with iOS and it certainly wouldn't happen with any Desktop OS. Like I said my Vibrant got more updates than my HD7 in the same timespan including one major OS revision. I never had to deal with a buggy keyboard on that phone though. I guess if the keyboard in Mango wasn't so broken I probably wouldn't even care because I've been trying hard not to these days.

Putting that x64 pic is not at all to compare anything with any mobile stuff. It is just to see how well all cores are being utilized by Win - just to confirm. If that replicates in WP - will be great. MS already said They want to do big with multicores. I dont think thet are lying.

 

[aubreyq]

Nope. If you disconnect FB from Windows Live you cannot connect to FB chat. That all relies on FB being tied to your Windows Live Account on Microsoft's end.

Ah, thanks. Didn't know that. I don't use FB chat but for those that do I can see how disconnecting FB from Windows Live would be a problem.

The only developers excited about Blackberry right now, are RIM itself.

LOL! Ain't that the truth.

 

[snowmutt]

Fantastic post. And I applaude Winterfang and anyone who is honest about any platform. I have recommended WP to several people due to their desire just to have a device that works and doesn't need a ton of work to learn, and to anyone who views social sites as their lifeblood. I would recommend Android to anyone who enjoys tinkering and experimenting. Also, if they need a specific form factor (keyboard mostly, though hi def screens, expandable memory, and media specific devices are a factor as well). App heavy users cannot go wrong with either Android or Apple, and I would recommend Apple to those that love apps and ease of use.

As far as defending WP, I am very much happy to do that, and it is easy to do. In another year, WP will be way over 100,000 apps, and I am finding it very hard to see all the top selections not being there. Gaming will hopefully have caught up as well. All the form factors should be present, and hopefully carrier support as well. WP is the best of all worlds soon, and we can be glad as our selections will just get better.