Defending our Lovely platform

[HeyCori]

Yeah, that video's pretty funny.

 

[CHIP72]

My $0.02...

WP vs. Android vs. iOS: This type of battle has had so many different variations in the past. OS2 vs. Windows. Windows vs. Mac. Windows vs. Linux. Palm OS vs. Windows CE. Maybe I'm too old or just jaded. But when people try to convince how their device is better than everything else that's out there, it just makes me tune out. Every platform has its weakness and strengths. I would say that at this point, WP's most lacking aspect is the application support. Given that iOS and Android has a big start over WP, it will be a while till WP catches on. I think Microsoft has some momentum on this, plus it helps to have a truck load of cash to use at their disposal.

I can personally say that within the short time that I have my Nokia 710, everybody that I showed it to is like: WOW! They are amazed by the simplistic interface. And how easy it is to do simple tasks.

I hope Microsoft keeps their momentum!!!

There's something I want to note regarding the bolded part above. I have both an Android OS smartphone and a Windows Phone OS smartphone, and have many apps loaded onto each (probably a few more on the Trophy than the Droid 2, but it's fairly close). In terms of app updates, I probably have as many or just about as many updates on a daily or 2-3 day basis on the Windows Phone as I do on Android. Mind you, this speaks to apps downloaded, which takes total apps available out of the equation. But the fact a platform with a small market share like Windows Phone is getting updates nearly as frequently as the platform with the largest market share is a very good sign. One has to think there are considerably fewer developers working on Windows Phone apps than there are developers working on Android apps, so that may mean there is strong commitment from the developers who are working on Windows Phone apps. In addition, the frequent app updates means developers are not only aggressively developing apps for the Windows Phone OS (which they are), they are also aggressively updating them.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to originally mention above is that I also have 2 webOS devices and a Blackberry Playbook with many apps downloaded (probably roughly as many apps as I have my Trophy). The apps are updated MUCH less frequently on the webOS and Blackberry QNX OS devices than they are on Windows Phone OS.

 

[Mahesha999]

not sure why NFC is so important, my nexus s has NFC, i have never used it.

same thing with bluetooth file transfers. in all my years of having smartphones, i have NEVER used bluetooth file transfer.

NFC is important since it will enable many things in near future. No doubt. And if you are paying so much, then it is must.

About bluetooth, it seriously matters in India. I had a separate posts for that earlier. No bluetooth was a deal breaker for many of my friends and they went to Xperia Arc instead of Lumia 710

 

[borjeboy]

Wp7 has increased with 450% in the Uk. Still only has 2.2% But its growing.. Anyone knows How lumia is doing in north Amerika?

 

[Winterfang]

I don't know in North America but here on T-mobile is doing terrible. Mostly because of that stupid 100 dollar price, not actual demos and salesman that hate it.

I haven't seen a single Lumia 800 since it's release either, which is sad because I tend to see the new hot phones the most on launch day at my job.

Also today a friend of mine was renewing her contract and she was really interested in the N9 and very curious about the Lumia 800 but end up getting the Galaxy anyway.

 

[danygandhi]

I have a hard time defending windows phone too. Most of my friends are tech savvy, hate windows and mac use Linux in their pc and are hooked into Android,Google services and Pandora. Even at work people cant stop *****ing about how office suite and Windows 7 does not do somethings right.

 

[Winterfang]

One of my best friends is a hardcore Linux user, I laugh at his face all the time. Windows baby.

 

[darthhen]

There's something I want to note regarding the bolded part above. I have both an Android OS smartphone and a Windows Phone OS smartphone, and have many apps loaded onto each (probably a few more on the Trophy than the Droid 2, but it's fairly close). In terms of app updates, I probably have as many or just about as many updates on a daily or 2-3 day basis on the Windows Phone as I do on Android. Mind you, this speaks to apps downloaded, which takes total apps available out of the equation. But the fact a platform with a small market share like Windows Phone is getting updates nearly as frequently as the platform with the largest market share is a very good sign. One has to think there are considerably fewer developers working on Windows Phone apps than there are developers working on Android apps, so that may mean there is strong commitment from the developers who are working on Windows Phone apps. In addition, the frequent app updates means developers are not only aggressively developing apps for the Windows Phone OS (which they are), they are also aggressively updating them.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to originally mention above is that I also have 2 webOS devices and a Blackberry Playbook with many apps downloaded (probably roughly as many apps as I have my Trophy). The apps are updated MUCH less frequently on the webOS and Blackberry QNX OS devices than they are on Windows Phone OS.

That's a lot of devices!! How much is your electric bill? At the end of the day, I'm hoping it is a matter of time till more developers programs for WP. Guess we can only wait to find out....

BTW: I do NOT own Microsoft, Google (or companies that uses Android in their devices), or Apple stock. So I have no financial gains or losses if any one of these platforms.

 

[CHIP72]

That's a lot of devices!! How much is your electric bill? At the end of the day, I'm hoping it is a matter of time till more developers programs for WP. Guess we can only wait to find out....

BTW: I do NOT own Microsoft, Google (or companies that uses Android in their devices), or Apple stock. So I have no financial gains or losses if any one of these platforms.

I only have financial losses from Microsoft, Google, and Apple (and RIM and HP too; actually I should also throw in Motorola and HTC to be fair ) due to my smartphone obsession. (In all seriousness, I can financially handle buying all these devices without a problem. Also, I have given thought to buying some Microsoft stock, but currently do not own any.)

On a more serious note, I think developers ARE behind Windows Phone, or at least more than you'd expect considering its current market share. Part of that is probably due to Windows 8, and I expect more developers to come on board as the Windows 8 release date draws closer. Related to that, I think Windows 8's introduction will also help sales of Windows Phones, but we'll see if that's the case.

 

[borjeboy]

Yes seems you are right about that, if you look at the number of apps benig around 65000 and that we have got the big once like spotify, wordfeud, eurosports (and also some swedish apps acctually

But its so important that lumia sells well since Nokia are the only company focusing on wp7 samsung and HTC is focusing more on android i think..


God im writing at My iPad and english is not My native language its try to change every singel Word. Hope i have corrected it right..

 

[N8ter]

Before that, let me highlight the only limitations that I perceive in WP:
1. WP still lacks App in comparison to Android and iOS, at least in numbers(, but has got almost all most important apps)
2. WP has not got the Bluetooth file transfer functionality - the most basic thing that any feature phones have - AND THE ONLY THING I FEEL SERIOUSLY ANOYING
3. No NFC (the use of NFC is not that prevalent and MS prmissed for its support to the future version),
4. Dual core processors (but still WP beats Dual core Androids and iOS in Smokin by WP competition and is buttery smooth)

1. There are still a lot of Apps missing, and there is a quality drop off going from other platforms to WP7. The Twitter app on iOS is superior to the WP7 version or any third party apps on WP7 (which likely also exist on iOS, or they have superior third party offerings). IM is also still a sticking point for people who primarily use IM services that aren't Windows Live or Facebook (notwithstanding the FB chat notifications are volatile on WP7 compared to other platforms and Messages support is AWOL with laggy notifications in the Microsoft app). IM+ is still the best they have, which is nothing to rave about given its quality.

2. BT file transfer is an issue largely because of how the phone limits what you can send via Email and MMS. Really if you could attach PDF documents directly to emails and send Videos in Email and MMS the lack of BT file transfer would be much less of an issue for some users. But when you don't give those options (oddly), it makes deficits like the lack of BT file transfer a bigger factor than it otherwise would have been.

3. There are some interesting things developers can do with NFC hardware and support in the OS. We haven't really even started to see much of it yet. Look at the new Blackberry Tag stuff for those phones. NFC isn't JUST for paying for stuff at a store. You're limiting your interpretation of the technology too much, IMO.

4. Smoked by WP didn't touch on any of the areas where Dual Core processors could really make a difference, like on-device Video Editing and transcoding, or even image editing. You're also ignoring that all the best new GPUs for mobile devices come with the Dual Core chips. New Mango phones still use an ~2 year old SoC in them, a GPU that newer dual core devices like the Galaxy S II and iPhone 4S can run orbits around. Dual Core isn't just for the extra core. Other stuff that is clearly superior comes in that package.

Smoked by WP7... Nevermind.

The media is praising Microsoft because Android vs. Apple is boring. Blackberry is failing, and WebOS died. They need something to talk about. Apple vs. Android is just not "new" enough for them. No one wants a smartphone platform/ecosystem duopoly, even the sensationalist tech media.

Despite all that media praise, people are still going to Android for a majority of first smartphone purchases despite WP7 device prices falling down to a penny or free on contract and Apple still has the top 3 selling smartphone in the world. Even teh 3GS is outselling every single WP7 device Model.

I doubt the issue is purely perspective. There is something in those platforms that are driving people to them, be it openness or the ecosystem.

Microsoft has positioned itself in a hard place with WP7.

The OS has decent device choice - unlike apple - but hardware specs are such that every device is almost the same outside of looks and some external components. All their devices have low storage sizes and a majority of the newer devices actually only shipped with 8GB storage. Devices shipped missing components that went mainstream over a year ago (like FFC). The update experience on WP7 also isn't much to rave about compared to Android, IMO. My Vibrant got more updates than my HD7 has recieved.

On the other hand, their ecosystem is as closed as Apples, but they lack the development support and app quality that apple has at the top of their app ecosystem (having a huge app store makes bad quality apps ignorable because there is always a great "go-to app" in every category. WP7 doesn't have that. iTunes trumps zune for music, podcasts, and video - has a full client on both Windows and Mac, can hook into an XB360, and iPhones have native integration with iMac applications like iPhoto. The XBL getcha for WP7 hasn't really turned out to be as great as many thought. It's basically just a marketing moniker to many people, like the GameCenter tag on many iOS games.

I still think the lack of great devices (not just in looks, but also in function) and the lack of some functionality is hurting WP7. I also think ignoring the Business market was a huge misstep for Microsoft. They are allowing iOS and android to claim marketshare/markets that they should have been able to easily take from them using technology that already existed in their own products.

 

[cyrus_the_great]

I'm the worse WP7 owner. I never defend it and more than once I had tell people to go with Apple instead.

but,You're honest!

 

[Dormage]

but,You're honest!

I've defended WP a lot in my time..
Up until well....today!
I've been working on connecting WP7 to eduroam netwrok for quite a while.
Today i read this University/Corporate Wi-Fi: 802.1x EAP TTLS PAP - Microsoft Answers

And now I realy have to admit WP7 sux. Its nice and all but its things like "NOT SUPPORTING WIFI STANDARDS" that makes me wan't to brake my phone.

I'm done defending...now I'm crushing

 

[lumic]

Meh. I've had relatively random peers come up to me and state Windows Phone sucks, but it helps me to sleep at night to know they are probably up flashing the latest ROM.

 

[massifheed]

The update experience on WP7 also isn't much to rave about compared to Android, IMO.

I had to read that twice. IMO the Windows Phone update process hefts a giant dump on Android's lottery way of doing things. I guess different folks have different experiences though.

 

[kevm14]

4. Smoked by WP didn't touch on any of the areas where Dual Core processors could really make a difference, like on-device Video Editing and transcoding, or even image editing

Maybe you missed the point on what's wrong with Android. They have the processing power to do some laptop stuff (really though, with no mouse, small screen real estate and resolution, it is a POOR implementation, unless the goal is to say "I can do that"), yet the overall feel of the OS often feels so sluggish. WP7 focuses on what matters. In a way, I think it's a discussion on whether you think a phone/tablet/PC should eventually morph into a single thing. I don't think it should, and I don't think a phone's job is to be as much of a laptop as possible (WinMo had been there, done that - I had it - glad to have WP7).

But I also still insist on using a desktop PC with a 24" monitor for real computer tasks. Even simple web browsing is superior on my 1280x800 13.3" laptop than my 800x480 4.7" phone. And guess what - even simple web browsing is AGAIN superoir on my 1920x1200 24" monitor than my laptop. Nevermind all the other things that work better there.

Perhaps mine is the minority opinion. Others appear to have been using laptops for years already as their main computer, and think they can switch to tablets. So my perspective is different. I also do not like this trend.

 

[borjeboy]

Just read some reports that informs me that lumia has better then the androids and iPhone means that you have better contact with the 3G and Wifi net

someone should inform Hollywood about that.. They are always losing contact with mobile signals when someone is benig hunt down

 

[Mahesha999]

If the apps that people are using are there and they haven't spend alot of money on android system (for programs and games) i see no reason why not to tell them about Winphone 7..

And when it comes to iphone i always remember this Click to view quoted video

WhoooooooHahahahahaha! I am mad by that conversation!!!! Simply blowed me away in laughs:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Mahesha999]

1. There are still a lot of Apps missing, and there is a quality drop off going from other platforms to WP7. The Twitter app on iOS is superior to the WP7 version or any third party apps on WP7 (which likely also exist on iOS, or they have superior third party offerings). IM is also still a sticking point for people who primarily use IM services that aren't Windows Live or Facebook (notwithstanding the FB chat notifications are volatile on WP7 compared to other platforms and Messages support is AWOL with laggy notifications in the Microsoft app). IM+ is still the best they have, which is nothing to rave about given its quality.

2. BT file transfer is an issue largely because of how the phone limits what you can send via Email and MMS. Really if you could attach PDF documents directly to emails and send Videos in Email and MMS the lack of BT file transfer would be much less of an issue for some users. But when you don't give those options (oddly), it makes deficits like the lack of BT file transfer a bigger factor than it otherwise would have been.

3. There are some interesting things developers can do with NFC hardware and support in the OS. We haven't really even started to see much of it yet. Look at the new Blackberry Tag stuff for those phones. NFC isn't JUST for paying for stuff at a store. You're limiting your interpretation of the technology too much, IMO.

4. Smoked by WP didn't touch on any of the areas where Dual Core processors could really make a difference, like on-device Video Editing and transcoding, or even image editing. You're also ignoring that all the best new GPUs for mobile devices come with the Dual Core chips. New Mango phones still use an ~2 year old SoC in them, a GPU that newer dual core devices like the Galaxy S II and iPhone 4S can run orbits around. Dual Core isn't just for the extra core. Other stuff that is clearly superior comes in that package.

Smoked by WP7... Nevermind.

The media is praising Microsoft because Android vs. Apple is boring. Blackberry is failing, and WebOS died. They need something to talk about. Apple vs. Android is just not "new" enough for them. No one wants a smartphone platform/ecosystem duopoly, even the sensationalist tech media.

Despite all that media praise, people are still going to Android for a majority of first smartphone purchases despite WP7 device prices falling down to a penny or free on contract and Apple still has the top 3 selling smartphone in the world. Even teh 3GS is outselling every single WP7 device Model.

I doubt the issue is purely perspective. There is something in those platforms that are driving people to them, be it openness or the ecosystem.

Microsoft has positioned itself in a hard place with WP7.

The OS has decent device choice - unlike apple - but hardware specs are such that every device is almost the same outside of looks and some external components. All their devices have low storage sizes and a majority of the newer devices actually only shipped with 8GB storage. Devices shipped missing components that went mainstream over a year ago (like FFC). The update experience on WP7 also isn't much to rave about compared to Android, IMO. My Vibrant got more updates than my HD7 has recieved.

On the other hand, their ecosystem is as closed as Apples, but they lack the development support and app quality that apple has at the top of their app ecosystem (having a huge app store makes bad quality apps ignorable because there is always a great "go-to app" in every category. WP7 doesn't have that. iTunes trumps zune for music, podcasts, and video - has a full client on both Windows and Mac, can hook into an XB360, and iPhones have native integration with iMac applications like iPhoto. The XBL getcha for WP7 hasn't really turned out to be as great as many thought. It's basically just a marketing moniker to many people, like the GameCenter tag on many iOS games.

I still think the lack of great devices (not just in looks, but also in function) and the lack of some functionality is hurting WP7. I also think ignoring the Business market was a huge misstep for Microsoft. They are allowing iOS and android to claim marketshare/markets that they should have been able to easily take from them using technology that already existed in their own products.

Basically I feel that Apollo after Mango will be like Win 7 after Vista.

1. About apps I do agree. But its surely behind iOS and Android. But what I see in MS's mind is divastating. Being of the opinion of the fact MS is the best software maker, with Apollo, it will make JavaScipt devr capable of writing apps for wp. They must be having some sure plan for that. But definitely that will take some time.

2. NFC, Bluetooth and WiFi standard - Yes I know wp lacks support for some imp protocols. But again and you must be heard the same - NFC and Bluetooth is on the way

3. Low storage size - no expandable memory option - I read somewhere, Apollo will address that with expandable SD storage.

4. About dual cores - again apollo will. But the fact that the dual cores on androids cannot beat wp on single cores for so basic tasks surely explains the capability of wp and something wrong with others. Again there are no much apps android that can take full advantage of dual cores (thats not my words, I read it somewhere, sorry for not producing the links this time , oops). When wp will support multicores, that will be surely game changing, no doubt. Here is what my i7 is doing on windows. MS has got the capabilities.

about the fact that it is closed platform. I seriosly think its not the problem, since history tells that proprietory platforms done well (win on desktops and laptops and iOS on tablets and PCs, Android is the only exception).

Update experience on android from what I have read on cnet and zdnet isnt good. (links attached and bit convincing) Other authorative websites (like the verge and tehrepublic) too have same voice. You seem to be a geek so why the updates are ok with you, but sure they are not that smooth and user friendly as wp. Here are the definitive links telling Android update is surely a problem:
What the Android update consortium must do to help consumers | ZDNet
Google finally moves to standardize Android updates | TechRepublic
Google's own blog: Official Google Blog: Android: momentum, mobile and more at Google I/O

Actually I feel MS has got many things write and it learns well and reacts quickly and in best manner. Here are few things that makes me respect MS's visions
1. MS developed Silverlight (rival for Flash) - successful platform to develop better web UI. Adobe thinking to abandone Flash.

2. MS developed XAML (markup language behind Silverlight and WPF, that generates text for shapes, animation etc) for supprting rich UI on web and apps. Soon Adobe decided to develop its on similar markup language for the same purpose.

3. MS, being aware of capabilities of HTML5, they made Win 8 developments possible in HTML5 and JS. Soon Adobe decided to work on HTML5 standardization and development.

2. Win Mobile OS badly duplicated desktop environment. Start menu on Mobiles! is perceived as the one of the biggest design mistake. The lesson - Metro UI - undoubtly the best touch-friendly design.

3. No need to tell how MS learnt and improved from Vista to Win7

4. Being aware of Cloud, MS quickly started developing Cloud paltform - Win azure, integrated its development in Visual Studio - the best IDE in industry. Now is a leading cloud OS

5. MS completely integrated dev support for jQuery in VS, even though its not developed by it.

One more
Again MS is aware of capabilities of node.js project and quickly started putting effortsin that directions.
MS integrating Virtualization support in VS with Virtual Lab. Seriously this is the big move. Other IDEs far behind that..

I personally learnt a lot from these things and feel that keeping with MS will make our lives happier. (Win did that for a decade)

By the way this is not to advocate MS. But just to take a glance at what tomorrows tech will be with MS. And just to figure it out if MS is seriously capable to do a great thing with WP.

So I feel Apollo will be great. Should come as soon as possible to have greatest impact. And Mango deserves.

 

[aubreyq]

I'm afraid I'm more of a Winterfang than a Mahesha999 when it comes to defending the Windows Phone platform. To me, it's not so much about the apps, but about the details.

For example, having an "official" Facebook or Twitter app that are STILL underwhelming and lacking in features is no way to win long term customers. The People Hub doesn't make up for this due to its limitations regarding your FB friends' 3rd party privacy settings and incomplete Twitter notifications (e.g. not getting a notification when you get a DM). It's almost fraudulent the way the People Hub is marketed when it's a known fact that you may not see updates for all of your friends. Can you imagine buying a device and not noticing this omission until after your time to return it has expired? That's two years of frustration if you were on contract and the 3rd party problem is not fixed!

Another nag is the update process. NoDo sucked, Mango was great, and now this 8107 thing is lousy at best. I have the disappearing keyboard problem since Mango and will have to live with it until 8107 or another update comes along. On iOS this would've been taken care of much, much sooner.

The other day I needed to be certain whether or not my wife's iPad was in the house. I went to icloud.com for the first time (I had already enabled "Find my iPad" on the iPad), put in my password and what did I see? An elegant, easy-to-understand website (looks more like a GUI) where everything made sense. It seriously was an "a-ha!" moment. Just 5 big links to do what you need to do. The Contacts link showed you a contact list that looked IDENTICAL to how you would see it on the phone, etc. Clicking on Find my iPad (well, it said "find my iPhone" but you can find iPod, iPad, etc there) took me to a quick-loading map where I confirmed the iPad was still in the house. The Windows Live "equivalent", and I use that term loosely, looks like a train wreck.

I do like the Windows Phone GUI. Honestly more than iOS itself. But unless Apollo brings attention to detail front and center, I will have to bid adieu to Windows Phone.

I sure hope I get to stay WP. Hopefully we'll get to see a preview of Apollo during MWC next week.

P.S. You noticed I didn't mention the "robot" OS. That's intentional because IMO it is so substandard that it isn't worth discussing. That OS never gets a recommendation from me to my friends. Never.